TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

For the guitarists out there...

Which is your favourite Ralph song to play? 
Mine is (still) Nanna's song. Just challenging enough (for little me!) without my needing extra fingers!

Hard to pick one song from such a vast collection, but, at the moment, 3 favourites of mine to play are Hiring Fair, Slipshod Taproom Dance and Peppers and Tomatoes, all of which (I think) can be found in the latest songbook.  The reason being they are all great songs, great tunes, and relatively easy to play.

However, if you're feeling a bit more adventurous then you've got to have a go at Leah's Favourite and That'll Do Babe (also in the songbook).

Happy playing!

 8)

If we're about to hijack this thread and turn it into a guitarist love-in  :o

Then, top three at the mo :
Summer Lightning (the intro is sooo good), Tequila Sunset (I don't bother detuning topE to D, just fiddle my fingers) and probably Hesitation Blues (not strictly Ralph, but I do play it 'Ralph Style' !!) ...
Chris

England 1914 - Just love the thumb base line.
Barges - 'Fraid I do it in C (anyone else do it in C ?)
Mrs Adlam's Angels - the intro riff is a cracker.

But all this could change.............

From ear and not from song-books I'm afraid.

It'd have to be Sweet Mystery...just love that descending semitone bass line on "Babe there's nothing wrong with me..."

:) I'm a fan of 'em all but ones I particularly have enjoyed playing over the years and still return to them over and over again  include.....

England 1914
Nettle Wine
Birdman
Another Rain...
Summer Lightning
Run Johnny Run
Pity The Boy
San Diego Serenade ( ok not Ralph's but I like the arrangement )
Dry Bone Shuffle ( painstakingly worked out from Ralph, Albert & Sydney when I was student   :) )
Winnie's Rag
Bentley And Craig
Hands Of Joseph
Please Don't Haunt Me
That'll Do Babe
Arthur Blake
After Rain
The Setting
Sand In Your Shoes
I'm Not Really Blue

any Blake, Davis, Fuller or Buddy Moss rag....

the list just goes on and on ....  ;D

I'm a guitarist since the age of 11 (33 yrs). Learned with Ralph's right-hand style. Favourite to play? Gotta be Nettle Wine.

Barges is in 'C' (in the songbook).  I do everything in 'C' - I only know 3 chords...starting work on 'Am' next week.

I have to do them from songbooks, I'm hopeless at sussing them out by ear.

Must be really awkward to do in C - unless you mean "G-shape" with capo on the 5th? I play it "G-shape" (intro: Em add 2 | Em6 add 2), with capo on 4th (= key of B), which I believe is how Ralph does it. If you mean "C-shape", the intro must be difficult to do in "Am-shape".

Ralph does it using the Emin intro and G-shape chord, you are right Ian,
Me I'm afraid I do it with a C shape with Emin barred on 5.
That's the trouble with not being able to read music.

Don't s'pose anybody would be kind enough to give me the chords for Michael in the Garden would they  ::)
Cheers, Chris

This would be better tabbed, of course, but as its strumming I've never really got to grips with my tab program for that, only the picking ones...  but here goes anyway....its best heard on Ralph, Albert & Sydney, of course. I  can't remember it all but this will get you started whislt I work out the rest  :)

Drop sixth string to D

intro

A / Asus4 ( repeated x times, use 5th string as root ie avoid sixth string .. or mute sixth string with l.h. thumb  )

Verse

A ( play using the fifth string as the root and for emphasis on the beats )
Out in the garden Michael amongst the bushes

G ( play bottom G on 5th fret of 6th string )
Michael is crying 

{The riff following this line involves a hammer on from the 4th fret 5th string to the 5th fret 5th string followed by the same on the fourth string and back to fifth fret 5th string whilst maintaining the strummed rhythm}

A
Caught in a spider's web its broken wings beating

G  ( as before )
There's a butterfly dying

{ riff again }

A
Oh la la la la la la la (  :)  )

A
la la la la la la 

D ( avoid hitting 6th string at first )
And they in their wisdom day

D ( introduce 6th string as pedal just after 'Michael's' )       A
Michael's got something worng so wrong with his              mind

                             G
Well they must be    blind
                       D                       A
For they cannot see what Michael sees

{ between verses repeat A /Asus4 riff }

Great stuff ... thanks Al  :)

Even better - play the straight A chord with fingers 2, 3 & 4 on strings 4, 3 & 2 respectively, and put your 1st finger on the 2nd fret 6th string (to make it E). For the sus4, move your 4th finger up to the 3rd fret 2nd string and lift your 1st finger off the 6th string and play the 6th string (which will be open D).

The bridge alternates between E and D [a very lazy description, I know!]

"Even better - play the straight A chord with fingers 2, 3 & 4 on strings 4, 3 & 2 respectively, and put your 1st finger on the 2nd fret 6th string (to make it E). For the sus4, move your 4th finger up to the 3rd fret 2nd string and lift your 1st finger off the 6th string and play the 6th string (which will be open D)."

ooh - never thought of that, sounds interesting so I will try it out tonight  :) 

I've been trying to remember the "Michael where are you, where are we who say that you have something wrong with your mind" bit - many years ago I think I played it starting on D and sliding up to the 5th and 7th frets but I don't think that's what Ralph does - anyone any ideas  ??  :)

Actually we should probably have a separate thread or something where those of us that play can swap thoughts on some of the tunes that haven't been tabbed ??

Good idea Al.  Do you want the honour of starting the new topic?  Perhaps MAJ could be kind and move some of these posts once the topic is open?

 8)

MAJ adds: See below - I've moved the technical posts to this new thread so....carry on plucking!

That's an Edim7th chord [or strictly Em6th dim5th] which is basically the same as you move it up the fretboard in minor 3rds / every 3 frets. Voice the first one as:

String 4    3     2      1
Fret    2    3     2      3
Note   E    Bb   C#   G

and the next as:

String 4       3       2      1
Fret    5       6       5      6
Note   G      C#     E      Bb

etc.

Your wish is my command.......

A while ago I put some "mp3 samples" on a website at http://members.lycos.co.uk/acousticmusic/ with a snippet of Barges in C-shape. They are a bit rough and I promise I will get better.
I thought Freight Train was passible.

Any of you guys out there got some "samples" ?

Leighton

Well done MAJ - what speedy service  :)

Re- "samples" you can hear my rendition of "Kenny The Kangeroo" featuring my kids making assorted 'boings' in the background at
 http://homepage.ntlworld.com/poyners/kenny.htm   :) I uncharacteristically fluff a couple of notes on the instrumental at the end though  :-[

Another lovely one to play is Let Me Down Easy. It's one of those Ralph songs with chords that look terrifying on paper, but fall quite naturally under the fingers (with a little practice) and sound exquisite. The song starts on a Bb diminished and then moves seamlessly back and forth between D major and D minor keys over a typically moving chromatic bass line.

Another favourite of mine just now is Gypsy. Its in double dropped D tuning (top and bottom strings tuned down one step) and then basically uses Dsus2 and C shapes as well as the same G chord with the 5th fret bass note as in Michael in the Garden. The jangling, gypsy chord (no idea what its msical name is) between the verses is a Dsus2 shape just shifted up one fret - brilliant! You can get a good bit of rattle and strum into this one too.

Chris

I agree with let me down easy Chris.
Another enjoyable one is Maddy Dances from the Easy album. A simple but very effective use of melodic bass. I have learned a tremendous amount about Ralph's playing from that one album alone. I will always remember playing the the second chord in Maginot waltz for the first time, and just being amazed and delighted by its sound.

"Gypsy" - I love playing that too  :) You can add little trill on the top string on the second fret, sounds very Eastern  :) I spent years wondering why my version sounded nothing like Ralph's yet everything seemed to be nearly right, of course I hadn't sussed the top E string being detuned - I discovered my problem when one day I thought I'd have a stab at Clown and read in the book about the top E being tuned to D and once I started doodling realized that this was why my "Gypsy" hadn't been sounding so good  ???

A real favourite of mine at the moment is "I'm not really blue" - just a nice little set of chords to noodling along with  :)

I was so excited all those years ago (  :o ) to find the tab book with "Not Till Tomorrow", "Easy" and "Streets" in it - along with Kicking mUle records that I discovered around the same time that included tab books - this was my guitar 'education'  as well as picking up bits that my brother had picked up at college and subsequently passed onto me  :) I spent hours and hours playing "Let Me Down Easy", "Maddy Dances" and playing T.Rex and Beatles songs in a band with my mates just when I should have been revising for my 'O' Levels  instead ::)

My favourite and easier to play for me is Peppers and tomatoes. I'm working to make better Streets of London.
Do you know if on the web I can found Ralph's tab?
Cheers
Domenico

Hi Domenico,

of course the tab to "Streets Of London" is in the tab book available online from Ralph's official site  :)

Hi Leighton, just wanted to tell you that I just listened to your rendition of 'Barges' - I really like it. I think the thing I like about it the most is that its 'yours' if you know what I mean. I find it impossible to find alternative arrangements to Ralph's songs and I think yours has real charm - very well done  :)  Makes me think maybe I shouldn't have spent so long pouring over the tab books now  :)

"Autumn".......Another fine set of chords in the same vein as "I'm not really blue"

What can I say Al, a great complement indeed.  :-[ Trying to play a song by ear rather than from tabs has a few benifits, as well as a lot of shortfalls. It was only recently I found that Ralph played First Song with a D shaped chord, and I had been playing it for years using C. Too late to change now. I also have a great problem with timing, and most of the time I finish the song with a faster beat than when I started it. ::)

Your time spent on the tab books has certainly paid off, and I envy your skill in being able to read them. Your "Kenny the Kangaroo" is superb, well done. Do you have any more ?

Just going back to the post by Domenico, I think there is very little to be found on the net in terms of chords or tablature.  The music books that exist (happy to hear of any more) are one containing all the songs from Not till Tomorrow, Streets and Easy (a mixture of tablature and just chords), one published around the time of the Water of Dreams album which contains songs such as Clown, Kew Gardens, The Ferryman (I'll post a full list if anyome wants it when I'm not at work and can look at the book!).  This is also a mixture of tab and chords.  There are the 2 books covering Blue Skies, Black Heroes and Stealin' Back, and the latest Songs for Six Strings book.  The rest we'll have to make up for ourselves.

Sorry if you already know this . . . . Something I saw recently from a guitarist who supported Al Stewart.  He put a capo 2nd fret, across all the strings other than bottom E.  Took me a while to figure this out, but eventually realised it gave him an instant bottom string dropped to 'D' effect without retuning!  To do this you need a Shubb type capo and not one that wraps right round the fretboard.  Also means you're stuck with the key change but you might be lucky.  Happy playing.
 8)

Doesn't Ralph then drop *all* strings down a tone again - i.e. to CGCFAC (lettered from 6th to 1st)? You then get that nice low C(no 3rd) chord with 2nd str/3rd fret & 3rd str/2nd fret, and then shove these fingers up one fret for some nice accidentals.

Well, he may well have done, its hard to tell whether this is deliberate or not on his part at the time he recorded it I guess - I certainly couldn't be bothered doing it every time I wanted to play it thats for sure  ;D

What can I say Al, a great complement indeed.  :-[ Trying to play a song by ear rather than from tabs has a few benifits, as well as a lot of shortfalls. It was only recently I found that Ralph played First Song with a D shaped chord, and I had been playing it for years using C. Too late to change now. I also have a great problem with timing, and most of the time I finish the song with a faster beat than when I started it. ::)

Your time spent on the tab books has certainly paid off, and I envy your skill in being able to read them. Your "Kenny the Kangaroo" is superb, well done. Do you have any more ?

My attitude to tab has always been to use it as a guide, like a really big hint how something might be fingered and played. For whatever reason my right hand style was already very much like Ralph's before I discovered him, so it always felt very natural to me to play his pieces and all I needed from tab were some of the fingerings and turnarounds etc.

I do work out lots of things without tab at all, I had worked out "After Rain" and "Jesus Wept" for example before the tab appeared and was quite chuffed to see I was about 90% right when the book eventually appeared  :) Actually I don't understand the tab to "Kenny" in the book, I play an arrangement I had already worked out  ::)

I think to take something like "Barges" and transpose it, even if it was by "accident" , into the arrangement you've come up with is really good.

Because I bought the single sheet music to "Streets Of London" I used to play it starting on a D shape which caused me a real headache getting it to sound remotely like Ralph's ! But, like your "Barges", having got there I probably had something very unique and interesting - nowadays I do a straightforward romp through it (      http://homepage.ntlworld.com/poyners/stuff.htm   - beware of the Kylie cover that I did as a joke to prove a point one day  :)         ) which is probably of less worth than the old way I used to play it - I mean, whats the point if 10,000 people all playing "Streets Of LOndon" the same way Raph does  ???

re Gibson's post about tab books I was told recently about one that predated the one containing tab for "Not Til Tomorrow", "Easy" and "Streets" - I had no idea it existed before.

It wasn't tab but it included lots of early songs and, amazingly, "Another Rain Has Fallen". I haven't seen a copy myself but from the detailed description I got it was a really nice book.

I have kept an eye open for an old copy but to no avail so far.

It was published just after the You Well Meaning Brought Me Here LP was issued and had a similar sepia monochrome feel with some interesting artistic illustrations. It did indeed have Another Rain Has Fallen in it, even before Ralph issued it on Not Til Tomorrow (did he record it during the YWMBMH sessions?). My sister bought a copy and it became my guitar Bible for a while. I learnt to play in open and altered tunings from those songs, and all those lovely 'gronky' chords (that what I called them) were revealed with chord diagrams. My sister's copy has been signed by Ralph twice - shortly after it was issued and last year. That must make it worth something.

Chris

...this one?
I picked up my copy in 1974

[attachment deleted by admin]

Evening all,

Yes, that's the book.  I got mine when it first came out in 1972.  It has some 'interesting' artwork by Peter Thaine and Melinda Peterson to accompany some of the songs.  Plus a few photos.  All in sepia.

Mine is also signed.  I wonder how much that puts on the 'collectors' price?

This book regularly comes up for sale on ebay so keep a look out there.

Marianne

Not since I've been looking out for it it hasn't !!  :'(  :'(  :'(

Keep on looking, Al.  It does appear.  I know that John B got a copy recently and there was another one for sale at the same time. :o

If I see one I'll post the link on the board.

MAJ
Researcher

I haven't seen a copy of this since I was in my teens, and guess what, not only did I see one last night, but I also met up with a board member at our local folk club.  ;D  ;D

I met Geoff at Wigan Folk Club last night, and he had brought his copy of the songbook. I was instantly transformed back to my youth. Geoff started off with a cracking version of Nanna's Song, and I kept the ball rolling with Barges. There were more Ralph songs to follow, and I had a great night swapping tales, chord shapes and "intros". Cheers.  ;)

One of my most treasured possessions (signed too!) and in amazingly good nick considering the use it's had!
 Priced at £1.25 (!)
Enjoyed last night immensely, Leighton; I'll be in again next week, hopefully having had chance to practice a bit more!

Here you go, here's one.  Well, two actually.  This first book plus the 'Streets' book which covers the LPs Not Till Tomorrow, Streets and Easy.

Starting price is really low - £3.07 - for the two - so get bidding!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1452&item=3752093337&rd=1

Its been added to my watch list right now  :) Actually, just checked out the track listing, it features some real rarities ... one especially caught my eye .."Daddy's Horse "  ;D

Neigh!! Must be a mistake! ;D That is definitely going in the McSlips section of the birthday book, together with that other rarity in this particular copy of the song book - Mrs Adam's Angels. 

And Ralph was obviously the ghost writer for item no. 12 from the 'Streets' book... :o

Al and Madge
Private Investigators

"Daddy's Horse": Is that the one that got stolen when Ralph was a cowboy?

Chris

That's the one!
 "hoofbeats, in the hall and on the stairs"

re advice from ikr about the "Michael, where are you" bit in Michael In The Garden......

"That's an Edim7th chord [or strictly Em6th dim5th] which is basically the same as you move it up the fretboard in minor 3rds / every 3 frets"

finally got round to trying it out tonight - its just right, thanks a bunch  :) Can't sing it though but its nice to have one more mystery solved  :) Just don't know why it hadn't occurred to me thats what it was  ::)

Having read the discussion on Michael in the Garden, it was all attention on Saturday when he started to play it.  As far as I can tell, the dropped D is correct, the chords are correct and there's no need for tab - he played it with pick, some fancy right hand damping and just playing bass notes for the 'Michael sees all behind the high walls' bit.

Glad to hear he's playing it live again. He always does it with such power and feeling, even more so than the younger recorded version.

The "Michael sees all behind the high walls ... " section just uses E and D chords alternating, so the damped bass notes are easily achieved by playing with fingers across the second fret (bottom 3 strings - making E,B,E) and then the same strings open (D,A,D). It is best to actually play the whole chords at the same time in case of stray picking.

And while I think of it, I tend to play the opening A chord in a sort of second inversion (B string 5th fret, G string 6th fret, D string 7th fret, with the top E string open). I hit the bass A string then the full chord and then play the suspended 4th by putting the little finger on the G string 7th fret.

Also the G chord which follows sound right if played as a G6 (ie. play with a finger on the B string 3rd fret but leave the top string as an open E). You can even play the next D chord as a second inversion too (E string 5th fret, B string 7th fret, G string 7th fret) before dropping back to the standard position during the "wrong, wrong, wrong with his mind"  bit. It makes for a bit of variety in the sound.

I hope this makes sense to someone.

Chris

Listening to Ralph the other night on Mike Harding, and having recently listened to "Ralph, Albert and Sydney" again. I can't help but think that Ralph's live guitar sounds awful  :(

Not that I am saying that because its a Yamaha and am all snobbish cos its not a Gibson or a Martin or something, but compare the lovely warm sound of a mic'd acoustic and the awful noise still produced by peizo pickups etc and to my ears there's no comparison. It just doesn't sound anything like an acoustic guitar actually sounds like. It really bugs me when sitting through his shows, fantastic though they are otherwise  :) His albums are mostly recorded beautifully so his live sound is, presumably, a triumph of convenience over art, ie it irons lots of technical wrinkles that otherwise occur eg feedback, electrical interference etc.

As you can tell I feel strongly about this, am I the only one ?  ::) I've not noticed anybody mentioning it ?? I can't help but wonder why he doesn't at least mix in a bit of mic as well so give the sound some dynamic as a lot of other people do. I find it slightly curioius that someone who is so enamoured of a wonderful old Gibson because of its deep, warm bassy sound should be content with such a lightweight live sound ?

I'm loathe to criticise my hero but just as I suffer though Bob Dylan shows thinking "why don't one of the band tell him that he can't play a guitar solo for toffee", I sit there through Ralph's shows thinking "surely someone has told him by now that this sound is terrible".

What does eveyrone else think ? Am I perhaps to be castigated forever now ?  :) Has anyone here ever talked to him about it ?

Al,
I'm sorry I couldn't let this comment go without saying something. It's been a few years since I saw "His Bobness", and although I am not a great lover of some of his later work, I have approx 40 No. early LP's (now CD's) of just him and his guitar at various concerts/performances/bootlegs, and I can say without even taking a breath, that Bob's Solo guitar playing is awesome. Some of his early finger-picking stuff is fantastic.

"Moonshine Blues" and "Cocaine" on the Gaslight Tapes is raw, and although recorded live in New York (been there), it is great guitar playing.

"Baby let me follow you down" on The Witmark Years - is Magic.

As I say, I cannot agree or disagree with your comments with regards to "recent" concerts, but I had to say something.

I need to have a think about the "Ralph comment" for a while.......................but I can see where you are coming from. I was there in Liverpool at the Mike Harding Show.

Leighton

No, Al, you are not alone.  I don't particularly like the sound of the Yamaha either.  Although I have to say I preferred the sound of the black one he used to play about 10 years ago.  The sound of the Gibson J45 in the early 70s was one of the things that made me such a huge fan of Ralph and his playing. 

I don't like the harsh edge the current Yamaha gives to his work.  But not being too technically minded I don't know how much is guitar and how much is amplification.  I would certainly like to hear Ralph play it without any pick-up at all. 

I heard Ralph the other evening in the Liverpool broadcast and still think his style is stunning but I would like to hear items like That'll Do Babe in the raw, as it were.

Oh, and no, I have never talked to him about it.....yet...! ;)

How sad is this?  In 1991-ish after seeing the black Yamaha APX7 I went out and bought one and thought the sound was great whether it was played through an amplifier or not.  A couple of years ago when finances and opportunity coincided I bought a Gibson (CL40A for anyone who's interested) because Ralph used to play a Gibson (good enough for him, good enough for me).  Now, which one is best?  If you want to strum songs such as Peppers and Tomatoes, or want effects such as Slipshod Taproom Dance, then played through a decent amp the Yamaha is just as good as the Gibson.  If you want to fingerpick songs like First Song or even Streets of London in a way similar to Ralph, Albert and Sydney (Al – by coincidence I listened to this CD last night and I know exactly where you're coming from), then you can't beat the Gibson.

I suspect the Yamaha keeps making an appearance because he gets one for free (might even have some sort of sponsorship deal) but I don't know for sure.  As for the Gibson, we know the old one was retired although I was never quite sure why, and I'm sure he's bought another one.  If you look at the new 'official' site (if we're allowed to mention it) I think the new Gibson makes an appearance on the home page.  I'd certainly like to hear it for real.

In the end I think it's all down to personal preference, but I'd certainly like to hear the 70's Gibson sound live again.
 8)

Its quite sad really isn't it that technological 'development' means we now tend to hear a tinnier less wholesome verison of what we started out loving so much  :(  Glad I am not the only one who misses the days of deep warm tones even if it did mean they were accompanied by a miscellany of hums, buzzes and passing taxis   ;D I was quite interested that both Maj and Gibson mentioned the 'black' Yamaha, because I always seemed to think that sounded better too. It even sounds pretty good on the Town Hall concert video, nothing like his mic'd Gibson but quite a pleasant sound in its own right whereas I think I have decided that for me the issue with the 'other' one is ithat ts 'brash'.

Having said all this I know it doesn't dampen our enthusiasm for seeing Ralph etc but its often in my mind, at the back somewhere, when I am awatching him.

As far as I know the reason Ralph ended up with Yamaha was as a result of Bert Jansch opening up a guitar shop in London that, apparently, was stocked by Yamaha but which sold very little and went bump. But sometime during this period Bert had become a Yamaha user and was sent two Yamaha's and he gave one to Ralph - I might have this wrong but I recall reading something like this more than once, in fact I do know I have seen Bert say something along these lines himself in a mag somewhere not too long ago.

Re Leighton's comments on my comments about Dylan I am was referring solely to the interminably long guitar solos, as in guitar shredding hero mode without the fast diddly bits, that he launches into nowadays when playing with his band - they go on forever and his band look bored and embrarrassed whilst he does them - its obvious no-one knows where he is going with them or when they are going to end !

As a 'solo' performer both in his early days, or on things like "World Gone Wrong" or other rare 'solo' appreances, Dylan's uniqueness and inherent musical genius shine through like a beacon elevating him to a level few people, however technically accomplished they are, seldom achieve and I couldn't agree with you more Leighton, but believe me, if you had seen him in the last couple of years you would know what I mean  :)

Re- Gibson's comment about buying a Gibson cos Ralph played one, well he is not alone cos I did it too except I bought a J-45, terrible thing it was, sounded nothing like Ralph's , of course, what did I expect  ???  :-[ Anyway, had the last laugh cos I sold it for more than I paid for it, which is more than can be said for some of my others over thet years  :-[  I did "sort of" buy a National cos of Ralph but I already had a resonator guitar before him but it did make me want to have a proper one so I got one and love it to bits, happily  :)

Wouldn't all of us players just love to have a go on Ralph's old Gibson though  ;D Or has anyone actually been near it and done it ? My wife has, but she was six at the time and can't remember it  ::) :-[

Sorry Maj, this keeps making laugh, I think you should tell him  ;D Tell you what, you tell him this first and if he sticks around I'll tell him his Yamaha sounds awful  ;D

Hmm, I do seem to have made a bit of an ambiguous comment.  I meant I'd like to hear That'll Do Babe un-amplified, not played by Ralph with no clothes on.

On the other hand......................................... ;) :o

I am seeing Ralph on Thursday evening, so I'll see what I can get to say to him. ;)

I understood you to mean that you wanted to hear it whilst you were, errr, in the raw...
Interesting.

Must admit that my initial impression was that MAJ wanted to be in the raw . . . .    and why That'll Do Babe???  Some strange dance ritual there MAJ   :) :) :) ;)

Perhaps you should have a word before the show on Thursday and decide just who's getting their kit off  -  now that would be an interesting review!

Briefly back to the Yamaha issue.  I remember in the early 90's that Yamaha had an advert in the tour programme and that Ralph used to mention the free guitar and how it was ironic that struggling musicians had to scrape money together to buy a decent instrument to try and make it big, and then when you had made it and could afford something decent, manufacturers wanted to give you an instrument for free.  That's what made me think that maybe it was something ongoing.  And yes, I would like to play his old Gibson (with clothes on).
 8)

I just remembered that in the tab book with the pics of Ralph's guitars in it that it does say one "Yamaha" has gone back to the factory, so probably you're right, it is ongoing on whatever basis.

Does anyone else remember Ralph playing a big Guild, a F-50 of some description, I only saw it with him it once and I distinctly remember him saying on stage that it was 'gift' from Guild. I did notice it had disappeared from his collection as featured in the tab book, wonder where it went to  :)

As Gibson have been doing a run of signature guitars it would be fantastic if Gibson did one for Ralph. They usually base it on a particular guitar so in his case they would base it on his original J-45, of course - I know I'd buy one ! I am sure as much as anybody else you could think of Ralph popularized GIbson acoustics in the UK in particular at a time when the guitars they were making were most definitely 3rd division, they shoudl do one  :)

I am lucky enough to have a Martin Lonnie Donegan limited edition, gorgeous thing it is and sounds wonderful, adds a big of magic knowing Lonnie had a hand in its design and that it was based on his particular old favourite etc. Pity Ralph didn't play one of his Martins more often  :)

I have to agree too that piezo electrics sound somehow 'plastic' to my ears, sort of noticeably synthetic. I wouldn't go so far as to say Ralph's modern sound is 'awful' but it is nowhere near as nice as his old sound. (The songs are just as good of course!). I would put it rather gently to Ralph, you know how sensitive he is about his sound. BTW I though he did have a sponsorship deal with Yamahah mentioned in a concert programme a few years ago.

I also understood that Miss Gibson was retired from live performance because so many refrets and rub downs has left her in a delicate condition. The lovely sound probably came from the fact that Ralph had the soiund board stripped soon after he bought it. (She is not a natural blond, you know!). I have never found a J45 that sounds quit like his, but I keep looking ...

Chris

Good grief you two!  Are you mad?! Have you lost all semblance of reason? ::)   Actually, my cat is the only one unfortunate enough to see me do my little dance. :o

You never know I may come to the big bash armed with copies of the steps for us ALL to do...

This is true, she is a frail lady now.  But you never know, she may be persuaded to attend the Birthday Concert... ;)  And you are so right, Chris, her sound is unique.

Moving swiftly on from That'll Do Babe  ;) and back to Al  -  I remember the Guild guitar although I couldn't have told you the model, and it certainly didn't make more than one or two appearances.

Another mystery to clear up.  MAJ, are you on the case tomorrow?  What happened to the Guild?
 8)

Indeed, whatever the reason, and no doubt Ralph's playing has a lot to do with it as well, what a fantastic sound that old guitar makes  :) I think, in retrospect 'awful' was too strong a word probably to use in reference to Ralph's current on stage sound but I did think that  on the last BBC broadcast it didn't sound too good :-((

Anyway, enough of all that, can I be the first to use the afro (  O0 ) on this particular thread ? There done it - when is it meant to be used ?? What does it mean ???

Speaking of guitars has Ralphs National guitar had an airing recently.He did say he was getting hold of an authentic National and I suppose he must have it by now,if so has he played it at any concerts anyone has been to?
I hope we get to hear it at the birthday concert.
Even though the guitar he recorded National Treasure with turned out to be  not the "real thing" I still think it looked and sounded wonderful .

Not where I've been and not mentioned in any reviews I've seen.  Let's hope he's saving the Real Thing for RFH...


When referring to black, blind and usually dead resophonic guitarists?

Ralph got a "real" National last November, I believe.

Here's hoping for the 26th!!

SteveK

I took this photo in 1977.  Is this the Guild F50 guitar?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Yes, thats the one, well done super sleuth  :) I remember being quite taken aback at the time as in "where's the Gibson?"  :o

Does anybody know if Ralph sold the 'National' that was on 'National Treasure', he was going to sell it wasn't he, or was that in some dream I had  ::)

Regarding the Guild photo (nice one MAJ), it might just be me, but is there a rather small UFO just under his left elbow that is trying to insert a fairly large probe into his trousers??
 8)

MAJ says:  :o

Well folks this is my first time on this forum. I've had a couple of Ralph songbooks for years and learned how to use tab from a 1976 book which has all the songs from Streets, Easy and Not Till Tomorrow.  My favourite songs to play are Nanna's Song, Barges and Nettle Wine.

Just yesterday I received my copy of Songs for 6 Strings and have already found that "That'll Do Babe" is a little out of my league. They sent me a numbered copy signed by the author and by Ralph!

I've just got back into the guitar after the kids have left home and I have some time to myself now. Unfortunately my stomach has got somewhat convex over the last few years and as I play an Ovation I find I am now playing a fair way out in front of myself. Most difficult to hold the guitar steady.

Barges reminds me of growing up in Newton Longville/Bletchley in the 1950s and I can remember walking for many hours along the Grand Union canal talking to the lockkeepers and.......watching the barges.

Welcome Ozspur,

Re: That'll Do Babe - as Ralph is always professing - "practice, practice, practice".

What number is your new songbook.  Mine is 73/1000.

MAJ

Thank you for the welcome Maj. My book is no 731/1000. I've also ordered Stealin' Back and Blue Skies Black Heroes, plus the two autobiographies. I'm gonna be a busy lad..............with very sore fingers.
Do you live near where I used to? I was born in South Bucks - Taplow - but its now part of Berkshire, which I don't like as much. I'd rather be a buck than a berk. But then we moved to the north of the county.
Cheers
Ozspur

Yes I don't live that far from Taplow - in fact nearly drove through it coming back from Maidenhead tonight (or rather last night as it is now nearly 1 a.m.) 

You are going to be busy - square eyes as well as sore fingers by the sound of it.  I think you will enjoy the autobiographies - let us all know when you have finished them...

MAJ

Has Ralph sold the National? Yes

Hey Ozspur - if you can play Nettle Wine then That'll Do Babe shouldn't be out of your league.  I found that the first section was the easiest but you have to take it very slowly at first, pretty much bar by bar.  It helps if you can really get the tune in your head and try and mentally slow it down to match your playing.  As MAJ and the man says - practice, practice, practice. 

You could always try Leah's Favourite as well.  It's a bit slower!  Good Luck.

PS.  If we're trading book numbers, mine's 126.
 8)

The Fairground
This is perhaps one of Ralph’s more obscure songs (has he ever done it live?), but one of my favourites from Spiral Staircase.

I like the way the even verses start a semitone lower and are shorter in length - these sort of quirks appeal to my jazz sensibilities! It’s also the only one on that album with a string arrangement that I like. [I wonder to what extent Ralph approved of those early strings? Were they “forced” on him by the producer? His singing & guitar-playing are so strong, that his songs just don’t need string accompaniment, and in my opinion, are mostly spoiled by them.]

Back to the point, does anyone play this song, and if so, which tuning do you use? I believe he uses an open G tuning: (from 6th to 1st) DGDGBD with no capo. I’ve worked out most of the shapes, but somehow it doesn’t sound quite right! I’m in the process of writing out a chart for my “version” - will post a link when it’s ready.

In the meantime, I’d be grateful for anyone else’s take on playing this song.

Gibson,
Actually it took me almost a year before I could play Nettle Wine. I reckon by Christmas next year I might have That'll Do Babe down pat. When Ralph was in concert in Adelaide a few years ago he played it towards the end of his bracket, told us the story that goes with it - and then said that he only gets it right two times in five! Two in five! So I'll be pleased if I get it right once. Ever.
The other two songbooks and the second part of the autobiography arrived in the post today. I was well chuffed to see that the book was a numbered and signed edition.
On reading the books I keep seeing bits of his life that have turned up in songs. I particularly liked the Heron Song story.
And can anybody tell me if the character Tubs was his friend Martin (Song for Martin) who died in the caravan fire?
Cheers
Ozspur

Hi Ian,

I'm not sure I've ever seen Ralph do it, its an interesting question, one I suspect Maj will know the answer to  :)

I've never had a go at playing it so can't help you. But it raises the question in my mind ..., can I think of any of Ralph's songs that are in open G ? I haven't thought of it before, there's lots in open D of course ( Birdman, Sand In Your Shoes, Bentley And Craig, The Setting etc ) but open G ?

Of course he's used it on his covers of Robert Johnson and Muddy Waters' songs, for example, but can't think of any of his own that are in open G.

I don't mean to say you're wrong, the exact opposite in fact, for whatever reason its just a tuning I don't associate with Ralph particularly and it could be that some other of his early stuff is in open G as well as 'The Fairgound' and I've missed this.

'The Fairground' has always been one of those pieces that when listening to them a mental picture of what's going on isn't obvious to me and this could be why. I've always found the title track obscure to me too  :(

Its a great track, I'll have to listen to it now ! I agree wholeheartedley with your comments about the arrangement and arrangements in general except to add that I think the arrangements on '8 frames a second' ( the song not the album ) and 'The Ferryman'  are quite good too.

ps just had a look and spotted "You Make Me Feel Good" is in open G  ::)

to you ?  :)

I haven't got The Fairground in any of the songbooks and I can't say that I've seen Ralph perform it live, but that's not to say he hasn't of course.

The only other song that comes close to the open G tuning (DGDGBD) as far as I can see is Louise but it does state to use the capo 2nd fret.

MAJ

Actually I remember You Make Me Feel Good from the Streets album as being in open G. Try it with a D7 type shape on the  3rd/4th fret,then back down to 1st/2nd fret, and use some open tuning barre chords as well. Its a lovely mellow sound, very jazzy and different from the more bluesy open D. I think Sweet Forgiveness is in open G too? Maybe Ralph was experimenting with the tuning in that period.

Chris

I've heard him perform it (at the RNCM, Manchester, I think), very many years ago.  (late 70's?)

'Streets' songbook has this in D with DFsharpDGBE as the tuning...

Oh OK. I'm wrong about that. I didn't have the book to hand. (Of course the song is really called Seeds of Heaven). But You Make Me Feel Good is in open G. Obviously a Ralph rarity.

Chris

I am wondering how many of Ralph's songs/instrumentals are NOT in one of his song books, and why.  The Fairground isn't we know......

......back later with some info but not 'why' :-\ ......

There's quite a lot of them thats for sure.

I was curious to see that the last tab book doesn't appear to have sold the 1000 copies yet or am I making the wrong assumption ie that all the ones sold so far are from that limited run of 1000 signed editions and they sell unsigned ones at gigs etc.

As one who has spent ages tabbing things, some of them Ralph's, its extemely labour intensive and to achieve the quality such as has been the case with the Roger Brown books for Ralph takes some doing - if they are really selling in such small numbers then we should be even more grateful that they are available at all  :)

Have you tried Siballius G7 for Tab setting? I find it really useful.

I have to declare a slight interest, as I was a beta tester for the latest version, but I get no financial gain from the company.

Paul

Hi Paul, I haven't, I use Tabledit which seems more than fine for my needs - I really like it  :)

Briefly going back to the question of why Ralph continues to play a Yamaha, I've just noticed on the Yahama Europe website that Ralph is listed as one of their guitar playing artists.
 :)

Great piece of detective work  :) Wonder if Yamaha will ever issue a Ralph McTell limited edition  :)

I'd much rather Gibson issued a Ralph McTell limited edition.

Chris

Well, me too, of course, but I somehow doubt it so thought that it seems he has some official tie-in with Yamaha they might be moved to do one  :)

Fair point Al. I'd settle for a Yamaha if they gave me one!  ;)  But I don't know whether there are any special features of the ones Ralph plays, or whether they are off the shelf models.

Chris

I was wondering if there is any songbook with "Up" in ?

I play the first line with D D/C D/B with a "finger pull off" on D/B back down to D.

Firstly I am patenting the phrase, "finger pull off" as I have no idea what the correct term is.

I am also unsure if it is the correct chord sequence, and I am sure someone will put me right, but it works for me.

That sounds about right. He plays it with the 6th string tuned down one tone to D. Your chord sequence is good. For the bass notes, start on the 4th string (D), then as you say go to C, B, "pull-off" (a familiar term) to A, then put your finger on the third fret of the 6th string (F) and bend it inwards before playing the open 6th string (low D). This is a trick he uses quite often, originally from the country blues players of course.

The rest of the song uses the same opening  riff, then G, D, A and Em chords. The shapes of these are slightly altered from their familiar positions because of the dropped D bass string. You have to do some stretching to get the right bass notes. You can find these shapes in the tab for Heron Song for example.

Hope this helps.

Chris

Cheers Chris,

Much appreciated. Yes I missed the drop down D.

Is there no Bmin in the chorus ?

Sadly, not that I know of - and I appear to have them all (except for the Kicking Mule 'Easy' one, but no doubt I'll find a copy of that one too eventually)

MAJ
Book worm

Yes you're right Leighton, Bm not Em

I make the full chart as follows:

D/d'  D/c  D/b D/b-a  D/f~f#  D/d.. (x2)

D/d'  D/c  D/b D/b-a  D/f   

G  D/f#  A  D

G  D/f#  A  -

chorus

Bm  G  D/f#  A

Bm  G  D/f#  A

Bm  G  A  -
      between the G and A here he puts in a pull off from A to G (2nd fret to open) on the 3rd string

I notice that this is played without using the top string at all, concentrating on the bass end of things. The G chord is just 3rd finger on the 5th fret 6th string which allows the D/f# to be played by moving the 3rd finger down to the 4th fret with the rest of the chord played on the 2nd &3rd strings only. This gives the whole bass line a simple and coherent shape - something Ralph is very aware of in all his compositions.

Chris


Chris

revise that:

there is an Em

the last line of the verse should be:

G  Em  A

the Em shape becomes just 2nd fret 6th string and 2nd fret 4th string if you don't play the 5th string.
Also the whole piece becomes easier to play if the A's are fingered as A7.

Chris

Chris,

Thanks for all the info. - well explained. :)

You're right about stretching for the bass., it takes a bit of getting used to, but well worth it.

Thanks again. ;D

No problem, thanks Leighton. Glad to share.

I am currently revisting an old favourite - Birdman. Its in open D and I know the basic riffs, which are very dynamic and pleasing to play. It also uses a slide on the top string, but I haven't got the very nice slower 'coda' bit yet: "I'm a birdman, O watch me fly ..."

Any thoughts anyone?

Chris 8)

Looking forward to hearing your version one Thursday soon, at the Seven Stars!  (I'm still trying to get The Ferryman and Mr. Connaughton competently enough to attempt in public!). 

I did a version of "Birdman" for the birthday cd  - the 'slow' bit is based on the fingerings in the main riff, its kinda hard to describe it - with guitar balanced on my knee as I type its....

3rd fret 4th string with 4th fret fifth string pinched together followed by thrid string open ( "I'm a" ).

For the long "Bi...rd..man" its open 5th string, fifth fret on 4th and third strings picked together then a slide on 4th and 3rd strings up to 7th fret starting by hitting the 4th strng then the third after the sldie has started. This covers the "bird", as it were, the "man" is 3rd fret 3rd string, 4th fret 4th string together with open fifth.

The "oh watch me fly" bit is the familiar riff repeated throughout the songs but played slowly with a descending bass on fifth string ending on a bent 3rd fret 6th string etc - it starts with the chord ... 1st fret 3rd string, 2nd fret 4th string, 3rd fret 5th string with an arpeggio and stepped descending bass on fifth string down to 2nd fret 5th string, open fourth, 1st fret 3rd string, ending with 1st fret 3rd string and 2nd fret 4th string before bent note on 6th string and slide etc.

Of course there's lots of room for improvisation here, as well as thorughout the whole song, the coda can take all kinds of expression and additional slides, hammer ons etc which is why it has long been one of my favourites to play.


Hope this helps  :)

Cheers Al

I've got it now. I just had a blind spot about that bit, but it makes sense within the patterns of the rest of the accompaniment. I'm busy putting my own spin on it now. As you say, open D is great for jumping off and improvising in all sorts of ways.

 ;D

thanks again

Chris

Birdman - what a fantastic piece - a blues with an intro and verse in 5/4! It took me ages to get that 5/4 riff to sound anything like half-decent when I first learned it. Haven't played it in ages; I'm going to have to go back to it... is it in "standard" open D - DADF#AD?

yes, in a word  :-) Ian, since your postings about "The Fairground"  I have listened to it a couple of times and it still whizzes over my head, just not on my radar at all  :( I wound up trying to remember how I used to play "Are You Receiving Me?" instead  ;D

Has anybody managed to work out the chords for "the case of Otto Schwarzkopf"?  I tried but was totally defeated by all the 'accidentals'.  (but I'm hopeless working things out by ear, hence my massive music book collection, and frequent visits to Leighton's 'chords & Lyrics' page...thanks Leighton!)

I was standing alone in the Fairground at night, when the candyfloss sticks on the ground revealed (most of) their secret code to me. I think I have worked out the guitar work for this song.

It is a highly unusual song in every respect. I think it is in the same territory as Clown. Ralph seems to be exploring really offbeat tonalities and harmonies in order to evoke the strange and off-kilter world of circuses and travelling fairs. What was in that "last cigarette Ralph!?".  No wonder he doesn't play it very often.

Sorry that this will become a very long post, butI have written out the whole thing with both chord names and fret board fingerings (which are more useful anyway) along with the words because there is no other way to get all the variations and quirky bits. Those interested may need to print it off to see the way it all works. The only piece missing is the little instrumental figure right at the end. I haven't found that yet. Any improvements or corrections gladly welcomed.

It's not too difficult once you get the hang of the unique tuning pattern. So here goes:

Guitar tuning:    FBbCFAF  (yes really!!)

INTRO
Bbsus4 (trill 4th finger)        Absus4 (trill 4th finger)         
5 7 5 5 6(~8) 5         3 5 3 3 4(~6) 3

Bbsus4 (trill 4th finger)        Absus4  (trill 4th finger) 
5 7 5 5 6(~8) 5         3 5 3 3 4(~6) 3

Eb                               Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                 3 3 5 3 2 3
Standing alone in the fairground at night

Eb                               Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                 3 3 5 3 2 3
The world racing past on the street,


F                       F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0       0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Only the stars and the            headlights of cars

F6                  F                   Bb                             Eb
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0   0  0 2 0 1 0                5  5 7 5 6 5
Like               the                fantasy world while it sleeps,

F                        F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0        0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
I looked around but there        wasn?t a sound

F6                   F                  Bb                    F                     Bb
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0   0  0 2 0 1 0       0 0 2 0 3 0      0  0 2 0 1 0         
Just                the                cinders            under my         feet.


D                                   C
4  4 6 4 5 4           2  2 4 2 3 2
Candyfloss sticks spelt words on the ground

D                                 C
4  4 6 4 5 4         2  2 4 2 3 2
I tried to read them in vain

F                             F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0             0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Before it was clear, the                wind blew my hair

F6                   F                  Bb                    F                     Bb
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0   0  0 2 0 1 0       0 0 2 0 3 0      0  0 2 0 1 0         
                      And               rephrased the   sentence      again.



Eb                              Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                3 3 5 3 2 3
I stopped to light my last cigarette

Eb                                  Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                    3 3 5 3 2 3
The fair was lit up in its glow,

F                       F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0       0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
I threw it away, but the           light seemed to stay

F6                  F                   Bb                             Eb
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0   0  0 2 0 1 0                5  5 7 5 6 5
Like                full                moonlight shining on snow.

F                                    F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0                    0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
I hardly dare breathe, I  just                couldn?t believe,

F6                  F                     Bb                  F                     Bb               
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0     0  0 2 0 1 0     0 0 2 0 3 0      0  0 2 0 1 0                 
When            the                   music             started to        flow.


D                           C
4  4 6 4 5 4           2  2 4 2 3 2
Slowly everything started to move,

D                                           C
4  4 6 4 5 4                           2  2 4 2 3 2
Except me and I stood quite still,

F                                 F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0                 0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Then came a soft cry near the         coconut shy:

F6sus4        F9sus4 *           Fadd11         Bb                     *(or use Eb) 
0 0 5 0 5 0   0 0 7 5 6 0        0 0 9 7 8 0    0  0 2 0 1 0
?Will you      take me to        ride on the    wheel?. 

        F                                    F6                  F7   
        0 2  0 0 3 0                    0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0 
And around and around, the big                  wheel went spinning

Bb                  F
0  0 2 0 1 0     0 2  0 0 3 0
Round and     round until

F                             F6                   F7
0 2  0 0 3 0             0 2 2 0  3 0     0 2 3 0 3 0 
I noticed, although the fair-           ground was moving,

       Bb                     F                            Bb
       0  0 2 0 1 0       0 2  0 0 3 0            0  0 2 0 1 0
The rest of the         world had stopped still.

           D                                     C
           4  4 6 4 5 4                     2  2 4 2 3 2
It was then that I realised that I had to get off,

       D                                               C
       4  4 6 4 5 4                           2  2 4 2 3 2
Although I would have much rather stayed.

F                        F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0        0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Then with a jolt, the wheel       came to a halt

              Bb                      Eb
              0  0 2 0 1 0         5  5 7 5 6 5
And the music started to  fade.

F                                  F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0                  0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
As the lights went dim my head        started to spin

        Bb                   F                      Bb
        0  0 2 0 1 0      0 2  0 0 3 0      0  0 2 0 1 0
Told myself that I    wasn?t to          blame.


BRIDGE
F7 (II)                 F6 (II)      
0  5 5 4 0 0      0  4 5 4 0 0   

F7 (II)                 F6 (II)   
0  5 5 4 0 0      0  4 5 4 0 0   

Faug
0  3 5 4 0 0

Bb
0  0 2 0 1 0       (pick down and up the chord from 2nd string)


Eb                                         Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                           3 3 5 3 2 3
Looked at the ground at the candyfloss sticks

Eb                                 Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                   3 3 5 3 2 3
Now the message was plain;
F                                 F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0                 0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Behind me the wheel and the           fairground was still,

F6sus4          F9sus4 *        Fadd11         Bb                         *(or use Eb) 
0 0 5 0 5 0     0 0 7 5 6 0     0 0 9 7 8 0    0  0 2 0 1 0
But out -        side it was      moving         again.

OUTRO
F                      F6                  F7                  F6                     F
0 2  0 0 3 0      0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0     0 2 2 0  3 0        0 2  0 0 3 0
     
Bb                    F
0  0 2 0 1 0       0 2  0 0 3 0     

F                      F6                  F7                  F6                     F
0 2  0 0 3 0      0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0     0 2 2 0  3 0        0 2  0 0 3 0

Bb                    F                            Bb
0  0 2 0 1 0       0 2  0 0 3 0            0  0 2 0 1 0       

F                      F6                  F7                  F6                     F
0 2  0 0 3 0      0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0     0 2 2 0  3 0        0 2  0 0 3 0

Bb                    F
0  0 2 0 1 0       0 2  0 0 3 0     

F                      F6                  F7                       F6sus4     
0 2  0 0 3 0      0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0           0 0 5 0 5 0   


F9sus4 *           Fadd11         Bb                                *(or use Eb)   
0 0 7 5 6 0        0 0 9 7 8 0    0  0 2 0 1 0


-----------------------------------------------------

Chord shapes used:

Bbsus4      5 7 5 5 6 5 (trill with little finger on and off 2nd string 8th fret)

Absus4      3 5 3 3 4 3 (trill with little finger on and off 2nd string 6th fret)

Bb      0  0 2 0 1 0

Eb      5  5 7 5 6 5

Db      3  3 5 3 2 3

F      0 2  0 0 3 0

F (II)      7 7 9 7 8 7

F7      0 2 3 0 3 0

F7 (II)        0  5 5 4 0 0

F6      0 2 2 0  3 0

F6 (II)      0  4 5 4 0 0

Faug      0  3 5 4 0 0

F6sus4      0 0 5 0 5 0

F9sus4      0 0 7 5 6 0

Fadd11      0 0 9 7 8 0

D      4  4 6 4 5 4

C      2  2 4 2 3 2


Note: The frequent movement from F thru F6 to F7 is a just single finger move on every beat that adds empahsis to the melody, made even more prominent by downstroke strumming on each chord. For full strumming patterns refer to the track.

The music has started to fade ....

Chris

I think we should ask the man himself..... ;)

Thanks MAJ. If you get the chance ... ^-^
But he might say: "I don't read music, I can't tell you".  [;-)

Chris

Wow Chris, very impressive, guess what I am going to be doing tonight   ;)

I have no ear for offbeat tunings whatsoever and would never have got this in a million years  :)

Actually, I've been pondering this a bit and noticed that essentially its like the "cross-note" tuning Skip James used to use for tunes like "I'd Rather Be The Devil" and "Hard Time Killing Floor". Skip played tuned to E  B  E  G   B  E, with the three E's. But to avoid tuning the A and D strings up, when I play them, I tune to D  A  D  F  A  D which is perilously close to Ralph's favourite open D ( D A D F# A D ) - so I wonder if Ralph is actually using a modified open D with a capo etc - although I don't know what to make of the C on the 4th string  :(

Just a thought. As Maj says, only the man himself could solve it for us perhaps  :)

Wow, ragtime, I am well impressed. Did you actually work all that out yourself?
How did you work out the guitar tuning?
Cheers,
Oz

Thanks Oz

It was a kind of cumulative process over numerous tries. First I played along to the track in standard tuning to find the key it is in. (Actually you can play it with the chords I've wirtten out in standard tuning and it sounds alright, just not completely authentic) Once I found the 'home' chord was Bb I tried an open Bb tuning, but that sounded wrong and I couldn't find the other sounds. Then I cheated a little bit and looked up an index of all sorts of open and alternative tunings that I have in a fanatstic software programme called Nutchord.

There I found a strange one called "Wahine" which is: FBbCFAD. That sounded promising becasue it made it possible to move between Bb and F shapes with pretty easy first position fingering. I then stumbled on the F, F6, F7 move which matched the movement and internal melody I could hear in the track.

Eureka I thought ... but it still wasn't quite right. There were higher strings ringing on the original. So I tuned up the top string to F to keep the same chord types but add some highs. Some fingerings actually became easier now and the troublesome introduction began to sound better. (That proved very elusive anyway and I'm still open to other solutions - especially from the man himself, of course).

I knew I must be somewhere in the right ballpark (or fairground) when the very evocative moves between Eb, Db, D and C chords fell into place just looking like ordinary Bm7 type shapes up and down the neck. That had the feel of something a fellow guitarist would do naturally.

At first I did think Ralph might have used a 12 string, but I vaguely remember him playing it live at a gig many years ago and being stunned and impressed that he played all the little twiddles and extras with just four fingers on 6 strings! I may have worked it out (almost) but he wrote it. "O hands of Ralphie, O how they can play .."

Hope it all sounds right in your ears

Chris O0

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the info. I have downloaded a copy of Nutchord - I had no idea such stuff existed! :-[ 

I think it will take me a while to get my head around it. I think it will make a few songs I have been playing a lot easier to explain, for example 'If you could read my mind" by Gordon Lightfoot and 'Needle and the Damage Done' by Neil Young.
 
I always wondered how blokes came up with these chords. I guess they are pros and are able to spend a lot more time at it than I can. I can see I'm going to have to learn a little music theory, I've been winging it for years!

I'm off to try the Wahine tuning now. Hope the strings don't break.

Cheers,
Oz

To my knowledge 'Needle and the damage done'  as played by Neil is in standard tuning, its a D chord with a descending bass line on the 5th string...go here for a reasonable transcription... its more or less how I've played it for the last 30 years  :)

http://www.jauko.nl/tot/tab/y/young_ne/the_nee.htm

Can't vouch for 'If You Could Read My Mind' but there's a transcript here in standard tuning too...

http://www.guitaretab.com/l/lightfoot-gordon/24466.html

Beware of pop-ups, better still have them disabled  :)

I'd be a little bit wary of making assumptions about tunings people are using, players with imagination can find things in standard tuning that can sound modal or whatever. I had one friend in particular who was convinced that Ralph used all kinds of strange tunings - his evidence was "The Ferryman" ... he had 'proven' that the little instrumental break that everyone wants to play was in a different tuning to the rest of the song .... I'll never forget his face when we sat cross-legged watching Ralph play it at Leeds University - "He was so slick I didn't even see him touch the tuners during that bit" I couldn't resist whispering when it ended  ;D

You do need to be a bit cautious with Nutchord sometimes. It names chords just by using the lowest string as a root note, which isn't always right. This just makes for some really complicated sounding names which aren't always necessary. It's a useful tool nonetheless. It can suggest new avenues of creativity and can help to work out and write down what you have done with your own fingers on a particualr piece. Its also a very handy chord index for standard tuning. At the end of the day it won't play the guitar for you. I think most players just tend to move their fingers around, explore and find something that sounds good. The names are for transcribers to work out later.

I agree with Al that Needle and the Damage Done and If You Could Read My Mind are in standard tuning. I think the Gordon Lightfoot one is basically in G with some interesting alterations inside the chords and in the bass line.

BTW I'm claiming no certainty about Fairground. It just sounds somewhow right with all the fret slides and movements I hear him play. But if it turns out to be in standard tuning, then I take my hat off to the man - again ...

Chris

Hi Al and Chris (ragtime),

Thanks for the replies guys.

What I meant about Needle and the Damage done and If You Could Read My Mind was the fact that I didn't know why the chords they used were so called. I play both of those songs in standard tuning and they sound quite good. I used the chords set out in the sheet music, the little chord diagrams at the start of the pieces. I can play them I didn't know why they were called that - for example G aug minor 7th five-eigth squaraed and take away the number you first thought of. Very confusing  :-[.

I will often drop the bass E string to D for most things I play in that key but haven't really gone into it much more than that. I think what put me off was having to learn a whole lot more chord shapes  It was bad enough getting my (large) hands around B7 etc.

I have just thought that if Ralph uses the wahine tuning on The Fairground, then he would need to take an extra guitar with him on stage or spend ages retuning, This might be why he doesn't play it very often.

On another note (groan) I have ordered a special turntable with a pre-amp in it for Christmas. With a special jack ($2.00 from Tandy) I will be able to rip all my McTell LPs on to the computer as MP3s. Three of them were purchased at concerts and have been signed by the man himself. It will be good to hear stuff that is not so popular but which I haven't been able to access because my turntable died ages ago. If you want anything, let me know early in the new year and I can make it available on one of the P2P networks for a while.

Cheers,
Oz (Richard)

Hi Richard, I have always found the names of chords in songbooks confusing - unless its tab I think they get people to transcribe them on piano and being musos they can't resist giving names to combinations of notes at random points in the music as chord diagrams so that you get completely the wrong idea  :) Its always struck me as being the musical equivalent of the Hungarian phrase book in the Monty Python sketch   ;D

I first learnt "Streets" from the printed music and spent a valuable chunk of my life fruitlessly trying to work it out - if somebody had bothered to include a note for guitarists saying actually its played in C shapes with a capo I might not have gone grey so soon and figured out a whole lot more tunes sooner  :(

I tend to ignore the numbers and just fiddle around until I find something that doesn't make the cat move away any more  :)

But then tab came along and saved the day  :)

I think you've nailed it, Chris. I printed this out last night and tried it, and it sounds good... and authentic! I'm working out the figure at the end. I think it's a series of hammer-ons / pull-offs based around the Bb chord. I shall now abandon my attempt to do it in open G tuning. I hadn't yet started this, as I've been busy with a domestic crisis over the past month.

Re your comment about Ralph using a 12-string, I think I know where you're coming from. Particularly in the intoduction, there sounds like a second guitar (or is it a banjo??!!) playing a re-voiced chord high up the fretboard, taking in those 4th finger trills, which are a bugger to play with the full 6-string chord!

The interesting thing about the bridge, is that the guitar is playing F7 / F6, while the oboe (clarinet?) is playing some lovely accidentals, to which you allude in your preamble. I tried to play the oboe part on the guitar at the same time as the basic chord, but it was nigh on impossible - and didn't really scan.

Ian R

Love this.
I've been playing my version in open D for years and it's not been quite right.
This version is much more on the money at first play-through.
Thanks.

My guitar is still in this odd tuning since I first read this post, and I think my next door neighbours know the words back to front by now.
 :-[
I don't think I've ever heard Ralph sing this live, and now I know why.
Thanks, Ragtime.

Hi, I wonder if any of you can help? I am trying to find a good guitar teacher in the Putney / Ricmond area, any ideas?  Obviously the 'Ralph'  country blues, fingerpicking style.
Thanks

Thanks rizraklaru (anag.)

glad you agree. Perhaps you should keep a special guitar just for "Fairground" tuning. :)

Chris

When I was about 16 or 17, might have been earlier actually, I recorded Ralph playing "Nettle Wine" from his radio 2 show "Ralph McTell and friends," and worked out a rough version.
Not knowing that you were allowed to drop the bass down to D, I firmly believed that Ralph was the best guitarist ever to walk the earth as I'd tried to get that lovely riff without tuning my guitar.
I'd also worked out a version of "Mermaid and the Seagull" without dropping the bass.
Not only was it extremely difficult, it was also rubbish.
What a revalation when I discovered different tunings!
 :-[

Oi... did anyone hear Fylde6 ?  :(

Sorry Fylde... Don't worry that there was not an immediate response to your query. Folks come and go in waves and I am sure that one of the SW London folks will have some suggestions for you..... hopefully they may also include advice on a guitar teacher  ;D

Ralph May lives in the Putney area I believe..........

I'll get me coat.... :-[ ;)

Maj

Lost Boys - heard this live twice in the last couple of months, plus a couple of times from the CD, and it's really growing on me.  Anyone got a version of this they'd like to share??  Thanks.
 8)

Hi Gibson,
I haven't but sat watching on Friday I found myself thinking it was quite effective in concert and made a mental note to have a go. Assuming the DVD of the show appears, no doubt it will make working the featured songs very easy  :) Might have a go one evening if I get the time,  and if I get anywhere I'll post my findings  :)

Thanks Al  -  maybe something to do in the Christmas holidays!
 8)

Newbie needs help. I have started playing again and I really want to play Ralph's music. I sent away to Leola music and got two of Ralph's song books. But, I can't seem to find the music for three songs that I want to play: First Song, Zimmerman Blues, and Sweet Mystery. Where could I get the music and guitar tab for these songs?    Thanks,   Jeff

Jeff - I've got a songbook called "The Guitar and Songs of Ralph McTell" which I bought after a gig in the mid 80s.
This has tab for "First Song" in it.
 I also remember owning one which had the tab to "Streets" and "Easy," I think. (No idea what happened to that.)
I've had a brief trawl round the net, but haven't turned up any traces at all.
Does Misty River music still exist?
Something may turn up on eBay, no doubt.
Someone more knowledgeable than myself should be along in a minute....?

John

Jeff
Was going to suggest that the book shown in rizraklaru's avatar contained  all three song tabs as it looks like a book I own but could be wrong! Mine has words and tab for songs on 'Streets', 'Easy' and 'Not till Tomorrow'.(1976 Essex Music Int. Ltd. and Misty River Music Ltd). All three songs you are looking for are there - in fact riz is right on the money- there is one on e-bay just now  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31211&item=3765963492&rd=1
Have a go at bidding for it.
Dan

Hi Jeff, Dan....everyone,

The Streets/Easy/Not Till Tomorrow songbook comes up for sale on ebay very frequently so do keep a look out for it.   

Riz's avatar is indeed its cover!

Thanks for your help Dan, John  and Maj. Dan I took your advice and I am bidding on the Ralph McTell song book on E-bay. Unfortunately these apparently have become collectors items because the bidding is now up to 41 pounds with at least 12 hours to go.     thanks, Jeff

Thanks Maj, I live about 300yards away from that particular Mr May, my daughter was in the same class as a boy called Sam who ,coincidentally was also called May. lol

Ohmygod!  I think I had better buy a safe and keep my two in there, especially as one was a personal gift from Ralph.....

Right....L is for locksmiths......................

MAJ
Security Company Trainee

Apparently not.  I overheard him say recently that the un-national National was not sold.  It was won.  Steve was talking to him at the time and may be able to enlighten further.

Steve...............?

MAJ

From what I can remember, Ralph said that it was auctioned off for charity..(don't ask me which one) so I guess he donated it. I wish I had been there......dammitt. I have to learn to do more effective begging letters...lol.

Yours un-resornatingly,

Steve.

I have posted this plea for advice on the main board but I thought I'd do it again in here, for you resident Ralph/Guitar experts. 

I want to take up playing again after a few years of not doing so.  As a left-handed being, and as I have confessed elsewhere, I have always bought a right-handed guitar and re-strung it.  I did get some good advice as to the reasons why that always made it sound so naff.  So, this time I want a left-handed acoustic or electro-acoustic.  My budget is only around the £200-£250 mark and I know that I don't want a Dreadnaught.  Other than that I appeal again for your advice.

My latest confession is that I am out of date with terminology - what is an 'auditorium' or a 'concert'? What is 'nato'? etc.

I have found a few lefties sites for help and want to know what you think of the following makes and if you think I should plump for one: Takemine, Tanglewood, Epiphone, Crafter, Ibanez, Vintage, Yamaha.  I have seen models in my price range in all these (surprisingly I felt).

Thanks in advance.

MAJ
Clutz-in-residence.

The Crafter range is very good for the money MAJ, and they have nice electrics built in. Also they seem to be wide range of choices that are not 'dreadnought' in shape and size, but much lighter and sweeter both in tone and in terms of being demanding on the finger joints.

Chris

I'm not a sinistrist, but Seagull make a lovely guitar and do a lefty model.
http://www.1guitarsource.com/s6_left.htm

Well Maj - certainly a problem being a 'lefty' - me too, but I've always played right handed 'cos it's a right handed world!! Restringing a right handed guitar, I always thought didn't sound quite ''right'(or should that be left?) possibly due to the bracing of the guitar, but whatever, it's the excuse I have for not playing too great.  ;D
'Auditorium' is is sort of 'jumbo' size, say possibly a bit smaller than 'Dreadnought', and with a more pronounced 'waist' and maybe a wider fingerboard.
'Concert' size is a bit smaller again, say more of a large 'classical' size.
Maybe sites like Martin or Taylor could explain sizes better.
'Nato' is a hardwood now commonly used for the backs/sides possibly necks of instruments as an alternative to the more expensive/exotic mahogany and rosewoods.
Most all of those you list should have something to suit, just might have to try quite a few and I would second the Seagull as a decent sounding guitar. Imho, though, be careful when looking at an 'electro acoustic' as some builds assume the instrument will be used through PA and in pure acoustic mode they often 'lack' that something.
What about second-hand?
Best idea, whatever, is to get someone who knows the sound you like and plays, to come with you and try as many(even of exactly the same) instruments as you can to compare.
'nother tip - if you try a guitar out in an 'acoustic corner' in a shop, try the same guitar out away from the acoustic room 'cos I've often wondered why the instrument I take home just never sounds as good as I remembered from being in the music shop. :'(
... otoh ..I could be talking a lot of nonsense.. and sorry for the length of the post
good luck
Dan

Hi Maj,

like Dan I am left handed but have always played right-handed too on right-handed guitars, never occurred to me to do otherwise  ::) I think as 'lefties' we have an ability to cope anyway so personally I have always struggled to understand the logic behind a left-handed guitar  :) But, I would certainly say that if you are going to play "the other way round" then the only way to do this is on a guitar that was built that way, if not the bracing on the top as well as the saddle on the bridge is all wrong which has implications for the structural integrity of the guitar and its intonation. I didn't necessarily appreciate all this myself until I started making them though  :)

As for what size etc  its what feels comfortable that best suits, which also goes when considering guitars shapes, neck widths depths etc. Trying to latch onto constants like a particular body size or neck width, or particular woods never works because guitars simply aren't like that.

There's no substitute for sitting with them to learn how they feel, ie which body shapes feel comfortable for you, which neck feels comfortable and, if you don't feel very able as a player getting someone who can play to play a few for you so get to hear what they sound like. You will soon tire of a guitar that emphasizes one characteristic too much over another, ie the bass or the treble. The best guitars have a wonderful balance to them although their overall timbre will colour certain areas of the tonal spectrum eg Ralph's old J-45 has a glorious rich bass but you also realize that you can hear every other note just as well.

All the makes that have been mentioned by other folk are fine, and you will find good examples and bad examples of them all. At any price range there is a bewildering array of choice and the quality, given the price level, can be remarkably good these days. Its down to look and feel and what you bond with. My only specific advice would be to gravitate to the 'Small Jumbo', 'Concert', or 'OM' size body they are generally the most comfortable body size, bigger is too big and smaller can be hard to balance and also hard to find a good picking hand position. Also, bodies in this sort of middle range as it were always seem to me to have the sweeter tones.

Discount anything that is not solid wood for the top, preferably solid wood for the body as well ( laminates tend to be bright ). Discount anything flashy on the basis that the 'flash' has used up an uduly large amount of the budget. Plain selected woods look better than any amount of pearl anyway.

One thing you will come across is that most of these guitars, even the expensive ones, are hopelessly setup and will often be far harder to play than they should be.  If you take a player with you they should be able to spot when a guitar  could be better set up etc although in my limited experience of setting other people's guitars up I am usually astonished how ignorant of this a lot of players seem to be. For an hour of my time they are usually gob-smacked to discover how easy their guitars are to play. I say all this because you might come across a guitar that sounds and feels great but seems hard to play and it could be that a little setting up could change that for you - just something to consider  :)

Dan's remarks about electro's are well founded in my experience too, even at higher price bands. Also, they often seem to be targetted at people who are used to solely playing electrics so have necks on them that are too slim and do not lend themselves to the kind of fingerings you tend to use  when playing fingerstyle and also, as a consequence, the string spacing around the soundhole is too narrow making it unnecesarily tricky to pick accurately.

As with everything there's so many things to consider it can seem bewildering but basically its look and feel and a few practical considerations concerning whether if its not very playable then can it be made so. Looking can be fun especially if you don't put a time limit on it and put yourself under undue pressure to make a decision.

I think the single best piece of advice is to take a 'player' with you though.

Hey Al
there's something else in common - instrument making! After building a bazouki (self designed 'cos I had no idea or info on how one should look/sound) I had a go at making a couple of guitars. Didn't continue as I just could not get the sound I was looking for( - not to mention the better half complaining about the mess I was leaving the kitchen worktops in ;D) and kept altering the ones I did finish! It got to be an expensive business.
There is one guitar I would love to get my hands on to try out as I have read a lot about them  - the Blueridge series, Chinese made and imported into USA by SAGA ( no, the the crowd who keep sending me mail offers, being that sort of age!!!)
The guitars are solid spruce top and either mahogany back/sides or Indian rosewood back/sides.Downside is the perhaps over-elaborate decoration and iffy quality hardware. Reports from your Martin type players are very good and the upside is definately the low cost of these instruments - lots of bang for the buck as it were. Snag is getting one in the UK at the same sort of price. Anybody seen/tried one?
Ah well - anybody holidaying in the states any time soon???......

Dan

a mate of mine has a Tanglewood, very similar to this one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2385&item=3769161243&rd=1

and I love it (and keep trying to steal it...)

quite a few others on ebay ATM, including a Gibson L50 (sadly that's £500 though!)

HTH

Geoff

Hi Dan, yup, my wife used to complain about the mess in the kitchen too, not to mention the layer of sawdust on our dinner every night  ;D I showed pics of my work in progress to work colleagues and they were incredulous that she tolerated such a mess, to which I replied that it was nothing compared to the mess she made when she made dinner - of course I did not say this in her company ever  ::)

Those Blueridge guitars you mention are gaining a bit of a reputation - the good news for you is that the hobgoblin range of shops have them in stock (  http://www.hobgoblin.co.uk/  ) so maybe you could get to try one as there a few branches around. They do dreadnaught as well as OM shapes I believe

Further to guitar-making I am currently onto guitar #6 and also starting my first mandolin courtesy a kit I got from StewMac last Xmas  :) My last guitar was made for my brother - some pics enclosed - it turned out really nice  :) All of them have gone to friends and relatives and are getting well-used ( and abused ) .

I haven't got the sound I want yet but have been pleased with the results nevertheless, they still look a bit "home-brew" to me though but I'm working on it .


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Hello All

A shamefully belated entry to this Forum for someone who bought his first Ralph album in 1969 and has been playing Ralph's songs since first picking up a guitar three years later.  I was looking for a guitar for my daughter a couple of months ago and checked out a couple of Tanglewoods in the £200 range.  She's a lefty too but none of the shops we visited had one to try out.  However, the one we both liked has a nice easy action and passed the test of being able to play a clean barre chord up to 10th fret.  If I see it on the website I'll give you the number.

My main gigging guitar is a top end Takamine - like Ralph I don't let my 50s J45 out of the house and just use it for recording.  I've always found lower end Takamines pretty rigid and physically tough to play but I've been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the latest models but don't know what they're like for lefties.

Noticed further up in this thread some talk of songbooks.  In addition to songs fro six strings I have the 70s book with Streets, Easy and Not Till Tomorrow and if I can find them some photocopied sheets from Ralph's very first book for the following: Genesis 1 v20, First and Last Man, Michael in the Garden, Mrs Adlam's Angels and Spiral Staircase.  If I can find them I'll see if I can scan them and post here.

Lots more to follow!

David

Blimmin heck!  I don't know where to start....

Al, I think the photos of your guitar are super, thank you for sharing.  What a talent you are!  And thanks to both you and Dan in particular for your considered advice, on the definitions, materials, prices etc.  It really is very appreciated.  The trouble is I can see a few instruments that I quite like just the look of from websites but can't obviously try them out.  I have tried several shops in and around my area and none have lefties in stock and seem reluctant to get one in if I am not going to actually buy it.

So, what to do?  Apart from your good selves I also don't know anyone who plays that I could take with me to a shop if I could find one that had some lefties in it.

I am attaching a pic of the kind of thing I am looking for.  This is a Stagg which I have seen at both £167 and £202.  Views on this...?

As you say, at the moment my researches are turning up too much choice..... :-\

Keep searching with me guys.  I need you.... ;) ;D

MAJ

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If you're looking for an electro-acoustic like that one, then the Yamaha APX ranger are good.

Paul

How remiss of me, meant to also say above, a welcome to you David, and thank you for your comments.  

Re: the songbooks - these appear regularly on ebay and I try to post up details of potential purchases when I see them.  The original 1972 book, whilst being fairly hard to come by now, is getting snapped up when it appears and is going for some good prices at the moment.  (Al - get in there!). I think a few of us now have them so, can I suggest that if anyone wants specific copies they IM you David (or any of us for that matter) rather than have the pages on the board.  Many thanks for your kind offer, however.

Look forward to hearing more from you.

Marianne

Hi Paul,

Yes, I have been drooling over pics of the APX series (esp. the 5) but can't find a left handed one that I can afford yet.  As Ralph has a black one I at least have some idea of the sound one could produce.  Ahem....I say 'could' ....! :-\  The cheapest one I have seen on line so far was £351 (excl VAT).  The prices for the Stagg above are inclusive of VAT.

Cheers,

MAJ

Al
That's a nice looking job on that guitar. Love the binding. I don't have any left here that are still in one piece so attached would attach pics (if I knew how) of the prototype Bazouki (more a bass - ooki) Must finish it off properly some time.

You're correct about Hobgoblin by the way and for the price they put the Blueridges out at they can be got in the USA and shipped direct to door for a whole bunch less. But it would be good to get to one of their places to try one out.

Well Maj, lots of good suggestions here, happy shopping...
Dan

ps How DO you attach pics by the way?

I have had an APX 4A-12 for a long time now, and I'm very pleased with it. The 5s are nicer, and come in more colours, but the 4 is a good guitar. A bit quiet acoustic, but sounds very nice through an amp.

Paul

Ok guys, help me make a decision:

I'm thinking of getting a Baby Taylor, a lovely little parlour-sized acoustic by the fantasic Taylor guitar company.   Should I invest?

They are great little guitars but I wouldn't suggest one as a main guitar, strictly holiday use or whatever only I would say.  :)

Agreed. Only ever played a nephew's  'Big Baby' which, while nice, like most of the  budget or 'travel' versions  didn't have the parent's 'sound'.It may have been just that instrument but Imho don't be too swayed by the 'name' when looking at guitars in these ranges as a main  instrument.

by the way, another guitar that springs to mind that I recall sounded/played well was the Oscar Schmidt range, now made by Washburn. Some good solid top/, solid back sides for a good price but haven't seen one for a while - just a thought.

I think you'll find instructions in the 'About This Board' section.....which ought to be read by all members in its entirety, IMHO.

Thank you Chris :-[. Do recall reading that now you mention it - guess I'm not one of the good guys yet ;D Just need to get the old post count up.

There you go - magic number, just like it says. I'm a good guy now :D Now where are those pics.......

Thanks for the advice on the Baby Taylor, Al and Dan!   I'm a very small person and need a smaller guitar.  My Yamaha has a fantastic sound but it's huge, really too big for me.  I might invest, it's only $249 USD so that's not so bad.   

Now if I can find an Andrew Manson parlour sized.... 

Fear not, I have found you a gorgeous 12 string made by Dave King here in Reading, a mere £3200 - ok, you might not want a 12 string but you could always leave 6 strings off !!  ::

http://www.daveking-acoustics.co.uk/fs_sale.htm

I have the same Yamaha 12-string but only put it directly through an amp when I need some effects - prefer to play to a mic to get the purer sound, and certainly for picking rather than strumming.  It packs a lot of punch for a small-bodied guitar.

David

Maj

Another thought and probably in your price range.  Amongst my disturbingly large collection I have an Applause which is the Korean end of the Ovation range.  It's easy to play and is good at the top and bottom but lacks middle.  These days I put on 13 gauge strings and leave it permanently tuned in open C - CGCGCE - from Dougie Mclean, Martin Simpson and Allan Taylor stuff (namedropper!).  Worth looking at but only for picking - its' narrow tonal range makes it a thin sound for strumming.  I was at the guitar show at the NEC last month and Ivor Mairants in London seem to have the widest range.

David

I find the Yamaha perfectly loud enough in most situations, but it struggles against a brass section. It does have a lovely bright sound, much brighter than my previous Yamaha 12 string, although not as loud.

Paul

Thanks for the tips David.  Good to see Ralph's fave still up there, as Henrik said somewhere here "Lord of the Strings" !

MAJ

To you guitarists out there, I was wondering if anyone had tried out a software programme called "GuitarPro4", and used the downloads from www.mysongbook.com (http://www.mysongbook.com).

There are 4 Ralph tabs there for 3 songs, of varying standard. The second SoL, in the list, and Barges are quite good, Summer Lightning is a "bit odd".

It seems a good program to use if you want to get into Tabs. Or am I wrong ??

Comments welcome.

i enjoy playing mrs adlams angels, now this has started and daddy's here. nothing too challenging!

Complete change of plan regarding my new instrument.  The shop I was buying it from cannot find the left-handed model anywhere.  I tried another shop and they had the same difficulty.

So, I have opted for an Ozark 3139 LH model as it is still just within my price range. Please tell me I have made an OK decision.....?

Below is a pic of it....

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Maj, looks a fine piece of kit to me ... go to it  ;D

Congratulations, Lefty McMAJ - It looks really cool   8)

Of course you will have to supply us with some sound samples
in order for us to judge the quality of your purchase  ;D

Samples including voice will be acceptable too  ....

Henrik

Looks a very nice guitar. Doesn't Chris Leslie play an Ozark bazooka.

Paul

Ozark make some good instruments. My 5-string banjo is an Ozark and makes a big noise, I've been looking at Ozark dobros recently and they sound pretty good too, so yep, your guitar should do nicely thank you - well until, that is, you get caught up with GAS.. ;D

Dan

Phew!  Thank you for your comments all of you. If Chris Leslie plays Ozark then I am indeed in very good company.  The very, very nice man from the shop told me that the 3139 is a better guitar than the Stagg I had originally ordered - better sound.  But then it would be - he was now selling me a more expensive one!!

Can't wait now......and in 100 years I may begin to sound as good as some of you  ;D

McMAJ

Looks like a fine decision to me Marianne, of course the important thing is that it sounds nice too.
BTW, are you a virgin in the plank spanking department or is this a re-kindled interest?
Where the hell are you going to get Left handed strings from?

Well, I suppose the obvious answer is from a left-handed string shop!  Alternatively go to Malcolm Newton (as recommended by the man himself) and get a set of A6 Masterclass strings - actually, I think you have to order a minimum of 4 sets, but it will keep you going for a while.  Just don't forget to put them on the other way round!

By the way Steve, are you allowed to ask a lady if she's a plank spanking virgin??  (from what I remember, she isn't, just out of practice ;) ;) ;))

You're allowed as long as you're sure she'll take it in good humour and not hit you with her left handed hand bag...lol

Not only do they drive in the wrong side of the road in England,
they also play their guitars the wrong way around - well, except for Ralph
and a few others of course  ;D

What a most peculiar place ! :D

Henrik

Maybe THATS where I'm going wrong!  :o   ;D

SteveK

MAJ, I've tried a few Ozark Guitars and found them to be excellent value. Hobgobin in Manchester had quite a few in stock, which is always a good sign of a popular guitar.
Can't wait for you to realease a CD to hear it.
 ;)

Oh my, what can I say! Could I get away with - "Like a virgin....spanked for the very first time!"  No, I thought not. 

Moving swiftly on, I am rekindling my interest in the good ole plank partly due to the "Our Side Of Your Stage" CD, I was so impressed.  My current and previous guitars have all been right-handed ones restrung, basically because originally I didn't know any better and didn't know that lefties were made :-[ .  I have always had problems (which has been discussed elsewhere here) and so now I have decided to just treat myself to a decent left-handed instrument.

I shall of course be in the studios recording my new CD for the next few years....... ;D

Thanks for all your support guys.  It's really appreciated.

Now then Steve, :o where did I leave my bag............(DUCK)...........whoooosh...!!!!

MAJ

Maj, any word on the delivery date ??? I'm looking forward to your review
Chris

Hi peluche,

Well, they gave me a probable date of next Thursday when I spoke to them on the phone but as I am at a seminar all that day it will hopefully be Friday.

So in about 168 hours I should at the very least tell you that it *looks* absolutely gorgeous!!! ;)

MAJ

MAJ,

Have you ever thought of playing the Elizabeth Cotten way ?

Elizabeth "Libba" Cotten played a right handed guitar left handed, without changing the strings around. Amazing.

I remember seeing a snippet of her on the Martin Carthy TV prog afew months ago. Playing the song she was most famous for writting - Freight Train

I'm sure if you do an Image search on Google for Elizabeth Cotten you will see what I mean.

Leighton, am I correct in thinking, that, not only did she turn the guitar 'upside down' but she left the strings as they were ??
Played Bass strings at the bottom ???
If so ... I'm well impressed  :P
chris

I thought that's what Leighton said.... :-\ ::) ;D

When I was much younger and I first started to play, yes I did try, but it was hopeless.  When I had to learn classical guitar for my music A level I restrung my classical guitar.  My teacher was left-handed but he had taught himself to play right-handed.  Again - forget it.  No chance.  When I was talking to Rory McGrath recently I mentioned that I noted he is left-handed but he too plays guitar right-handed.  All I can say is I am glad they make lefties.  About the only thing I do the normal way round is use a knife and fork - everything else is cack-handed!

MAJ
Left and Proud

MAJ - I've just 'googled' around after Leighton's post and I'm ASTOUNDED !!

For starters, try : http://www.elizabeths-song.com/

What an amazing lady

Aw go on then.....

After googling : Good grief - she released her first album the year I was born! (a good year then).

I found this pic which clearly shows her playing upside down and back to front.  What a woman!

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I saw her on that Martin Carthy programme too, and couldn't believe it either! I've seen another guitarist play like this - Ed Deane. If you're a player yourself it's unnerving to see people play like that!

I'm trying to get hold of a video of her playing "Babe It Ain't No Lie", I have an audio file of her, but I just wonder how she plays it.

Glad it was of interest.  :)

Only just read this! Chris plays Fylde bouzukis. His performing mando is Ozark though!

Make sure your string set is comfy Maj i.e. not buzzin anywhere and not so high the birds roost on it at night...

Good luck

Puggs  ;D

Hi Puggs/all,

Chris does indeed play an Ozark Mando......found this pic of both on the Ozark website.

Yes, my next deliberation is going to be strings.  Any suggestions as to the best gauge and make that I should be going for.  All info and advice will be most gratefully received.

Thanks.

MAJ



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I use Martin Lights .012 - 054 but there are loads of others.

Why don't you ask Maart.......

Puggs  ;)

Good thought Puggs.  I notice from his website that he uses D'Addario....

Thanks.

MAJ

On the question of strings, see my previous post about the Newtone A6 Masterclass set  They are a set of mixed gauge strings 011 - 052, but if they're good enough for the man, they're good enough for us mere mortals.  I've always found them very easy to tune, they stay in tune remarkably well, and they retain their tone a long time.  You can find contact details on the website.
 8)
 

Don't think I have a video of her doing this but if anyone IM's me with their address I can furnish them with a DVD of her playing  :)

Its amazing to watch her, you are so used to seeing someone alternate the bass with their thumb whereas, of course, she is doing it with her fingers and playing the melody almost exclusively with her thumb - looks more like someone playing the harp than guitar.  :)

My own experience of Newtone strings is that indeed they sound marvellous when brand new but that they tend to go dead rather quickly despite the claims to the contrary, all that stuff about round cores not retaining dirt under the windings etc. Of course, Ralphy changes his strings for just about every show and no doubt regularly changes them when not performing as well but for those on a tighter budget I like the Martin SP range, they last for ages - but everything has a downside, I find the unwound strings a bit sharp sounding. But at least they are a nice golden colour :)

BTW, I get my Newtone strings from www.stringsdirect.co.uk where they  are quite well discounted ( I think ! ) and others from www.stringbusters.co.uk who are astonishingly quick with their delivery.

Further to my post a little earlier offering a DVD of Cotten playing, I found this....maybe worth treating yourself cos it features her playing every tune tabbed including "Freight Train" and the one Leighton was asking about  :)

http://guitarworkshopuk.com/gw/12078.htm

I agree on the quality of service from both of these sites.

I buy D'Addario ESP11 or 16, six sets at a time to get the discount, the extended play sets which stay bright longer than any others I've tried.  I play and gig regularly and get 3 or 4 gigs out of them, so the additional cost is repaid easily, plus less hassle if you're constantly changing strings, I use 12 to 52 on my Takamine EAN16CX and 13 to 54 on my Ovation which I keep in open C and which benefits from the additional depth.  I found the Elixir extended play strings very disappointing by comparison.  I also use Kyser string cleaner every time I play and find that it genuinely makes a difference, both in playability and tone.  For my Yamaha APX4 12-string, let's be honest, I avoid restringing it unless I need it for a gig or recording! So I use D'Addario ordinary sets for it.

I'll try some Newtones for a consumer test and report back!

David

Thanks for the advice Al and David.

My strings have been corroding in the cupboard for ages, so I've just bought some D'Addario from Stringbusters, and when I get them maybe I'll start playing again rather than spending my time on this b***** computer  ;D

Hi Al,

I must admit that I've stayed with extra light Martin Strings. When Ralph used to bring Miss Gibson out to play in the early days, he certainly used them as well.

I only had an old acoustic fender (still got two!) ,but with the Martin strings it made it sound pretty close to Ralph's sound which was what I was aiming for.

Regards Martin K

Its a metter of taste and what suits your guitar,of course,  but I agree with MartinK about Martin lights. I've used them for years, but I use the pure bronze ones rather than the usual phospher-bronze variety. I find they sound fuller and warmer on my instrument and less prone to fret squeak.

Chris

Hi all,

I like the standard Martin bronze rather than the phospher ones too, the phospher ones seem a bit dull to my ears at times  :) I was pleased to see somebody else say they found Elixir disappointing. I'd also go as far to say that the DR handmade brand are pretty ropey too.

But, of course its all personal tatse and how they match the guitar(s) you have.

BTW, one slight omission, re Newtone strings, for those with a National or National style guitar I can heartily recommend trying their Messer National strings, they are fundamentally a medium gauge set, which really gets the cone moving, and they have a thicker top E ( just one step below the B string ) and this sounds awsome for slide. As the Newtones do have a lower tension, the jump up to medium gauge doesn't seem so bad.

I've been using Martin Bronze (not phosphor bronze) extra lights on my Ovation for years now and I really like the sound. Here in Australia the heat make your fingers very sweaty - probably due to my fast and brilliant fingerpicking technique  8) 8) - and they soon lose their shiny appearance and start to sound a bit dead. This is due to the acidic content of sweat.
 
However I learned a really good trick back in 1977. Ralph McTell was playing in Canberra when I was living there. He was ten minutes late for his gig and he said it was because he had taken off his strings and washed them. I have since read in his book that if you boiled them it somehow rejuvenated them - AND you could drink the soup. Yuk!

This sounded way over the top for a part-time guitar player like me so ever since then I've kept an oily rag in the guitar case and I give the strings a thourough wipe down after each use. It really does prolong their life. I just use thin sewing machine oil. You have to wrap the cloth around each string individually and really pinch it hard as you slide the cloth up and down the entire length of the string between the nut and the bridge.

By the way, does anybody have a tab of Bert Jansch's version of Anji?

I heard of this technique once - putting strings in a pan of boiling water. I tried it when I was much younger and couldn't afford frequent string replacements - first twice I tried it, the strings snapped whilst putting them back on !!!  However, I was advised years later, whilst talking to Steve Rothery of Marillion, that the reason they snapped was I didn't put vingegar in the boiling water ???

Yes, there is a version on www.ultimate-guitar.com but I'm not sure how accurate it is

Cheers, Chris

G'day  :)

Yup, attached to this post is a nice accurate version, and even better if you visit www.tabledit.com you can downlaod a free viewer program named Tablview ( or something like that ) that will enable you to open it, watch and listen to it being played etc etc  ( assuming your midi is working - it should be ).

TILT ! can't attach it becuase of its file extension, anybody wants it IM me with their email address and I will send it on.

Ah, the old boil in the pan trick - I tried it a few times and either found the strings snapped ( like Peluche ) or that I could not tell any difference. Never tried the soup  :o I must admit I've never rubbed my strings down with any oils or anything, although obviously a lot of people do, maybe I should. I am fastidious about wiping them down after playing though.

Hi Al and Chris,

Many thanks for your Anji advice. I have downloaded the one from Chris's site - by golly it looks a bit difficult. Al, I have pm'd you separately about the file.

Cheers guys

Richard

Hi Al

Or you could just change the extension to say .... hmmm  ... ".txt" and notify us about what
the real extension is supposed to be  ;)

Thank you for your kind offer - still looking for that song.
You see, I need to know what it really sounds like in order to make any sense
of the tab as soon as it is above the very basic level.


Henrik

Guitarpro4 is quite good software and has Angi on it - looks something like

(http://members.lycos.co.uk/acousticmusic/guitarpro.jpg)

I'd back up the comments about Anji - I'm in the middle of learning it and I am amazed at how far I am getting with it.  Min doyu I do have a really good "in house" teacher - sometimes it is a bit like living in a guitar workshop!!

Not only is Anji really a lot easier than it sounds but it also teaches you and your fingers many useful things.  An excellent "tuition piece" which will improve your playing AND be interesting to play in its own right.

"Romance" is another tune in this category - although I don't think I'll try 'er indoors' Ragtime version just yet!

Anyone know any other pieces which fit into a similar role?

Regards
John Robinson
http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk   


MAJ says: Merged from the Guardian topic as it was more relevant here.

Taking Henrik's cue here is Anjo in Tabledit format with a file suffix of .txt

To work with the free viewer available from www.tabledit.com you will need to rename it with a suffix of .tef



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Hi Leighton, I'll have to investigate this methinks i due course  :)

I'm having problems with this Al. Can't see or do anything with it - what am I doing wrong?

M

Al,

TEFview is quite good. very similar to guitarpro4. Tabs for Guitarpro can be downloaded from mysongbook.com about 30,000 tabs

Hi Maj...er I dunno is the answer.

To use, save the attached ANGIE.TXT file as ANGIE.TEF

Make sure you have downloaded and installed TEFview from www.tabledit.com

You should be able to double-click on ANGIE.TEF  for it to open in TEFview

You shoudl then be able to at least view it. If your midi is working you ought to be able to click on the play button and hear it.

Let me know if none of this works.

Good for you John

I particularly like the way that you ignore the first string first few plays of the riff then start to use it open as a chiming drone.  It gets really interesting if you carry on with riff then throw in hammer-ons on the first and third frets on the first string.  Sorry about the messy explanations - maybe I should join Al in the tabbing stakes!

David

MAJ says:  This post split from the Guardian topic as it is more relevant here - talking about guitar technique.  John's post of 16 Jan referred to is also now in this thread.

I've been reading these posts and was stimulated ( oo-er ! ) by John's question about other pieces that are excellant tuitiion pieces and I thought I would be able to come up with some but having pondered this now but I have found it really hard to come up with any !

"Anji" is an absolutely fantastic piece because you can do what you want with it basically. Ralph's "Nettle Wine" taught me an awful lot as a player I think, still find it deeply satisfying to play even after all these years,  it got me away from the steady boom-chick of everything else I was playing at the time, like the Mississippi John Hurt type of thing - nothing wrong with them but they don't take you very far.

But, a cd and book I would recommend is by Jaques Stoztem named "Fingerprint". The tab is excellant and the cd is great listening, but what I like about it in particular is that its got quite a different approach to the thumb and uses unusual voicings higher up the fret board. Its available, as are lots of stunning cds ( and tab books ) from Peter Finger's Acoustic Music company( http://www.acoustic-music.de/english/index.html ) , everything I've heard on that label has been very inspiring - very much like the Kicking Mule records of the 1970's except they are better produced etc and there's nary a ragtime tune is sight  :) Dip in, I've been buying them regularly ever since, loads of ideas etc.


MAJ says:  This post split from the Guardian topic as it is more relevant here - talking about guitar technique.  John's post of 16 Jan referred to is also now in this thread.

Al

Kindred spirits on two counts!  I also taught myself Nettle Wine all those years ago - there are lots of great picks on the Not Till Tomorrow album..... and I saw Jacques Stotzem lots of times a few years ago when I was working in Brussels, amazing.  Didn't realise that he had a book, so that's my next purchase! Thanks

David

Being a novice in the art of recording multiple audio tracks, I thought a free audio editor may be of some use.

It is available for download at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/about.php.

It is "very basic" but I'm finding it very valuable in increasing my knowledge of recording, without it costing me anything (at least for the time being). It gives you the ability to play and record at the same time. Something which I have found to be very difficult to understand, except in words of one syllable.

The one problem which I found out was that there is a slight time delay in the recording from the first track. I have found it easier to only use the first track as a backing and delete it on the final recording.

I save the files in it's original format and also as a wav file.

I would welcome any feedback as to whether other board members find this a useful starter for home recording.

Hi Leighton,
I haven't any experience of this package but for free its got to be a useful intro, especially if you can play with yourself, as it were. I read a quick tour of its features, pretty good stuff. I must admit to being a Luddite in principle, although I have a digital recorder I still think in terms of 'performance' so have hardly used any of the cut and paste functions these things offer. One thing I can say is that its an extremely addictive activity thats for sure  :)

As you'll no doubt discover from the website there are in fact quite a few of them - will keep you busy for a while  :)

Thanks Leighton

Downloaded successfully and I'll give it a shot over the next two weekends.  I use the multitracking facility to give depth to the recordings, recognising that you can't then replicate it in live performance, but as I write my own material I think it's important to try to get as close to how the song sounds in your head when you finally record it.  Other writers out there will know what I mean!!

David

Hmm, I get very strange things happen when I try to access the Stringbusters website (recommended by Al).  Anyone else have problems? (www.stringbusters.co.uk)

MAJ

Fine for me MAJ. Do you get any error messages?

Paul

Looks ok to me MAJ.

Worth mentioning here that Leighton plays an excellent version of "freight train", without even changing hands or restringing his guitar!

Geoff, thanks for the comments. But I hadn't planned on playing it. It's just I made such a pig's ear of Mrs Adlams Angels (I have NO IDEA WHY I PLAY A7th INSTEAD OF Amin), that it was the first song that entered my head.

And a Thank You to Al as well, a complement from the master is much appreciated.

I'm working on "That'll never happen no more", a wonderful Blind Blake tune............. Nearly got it.

Great tune, been one of my favourites for a long long time  :)

I had forgotten what a pain (literally) changing strings can be.  I have just put a set of Martin bronze extra lights on my new 'baby' and I like the sound very much.  Made a bit of a pig's ear of actually carrying out said task - still, tis done.

Thanks for your advice......now I'm off to practice.

MAJ

Maj

For all of us who have the Songs for Six Strings book, Ralph's advice on tightening strings when you first put them on is invaluable.  I am an inveterate fiddler between standard tuning, drop D, DADGAD etc, and Ralph's method keeps me in tune.

David

What a pain changing string is !! I have got really quick at it but still hate it. In an effort to shame myself into doing it more often last year I took to leaving a slip of paper under the headstcok in all my guitar cases upon which I scrawled the date whenever I changed strings. It didn't work, I have no more enthusiasm for changing strings than I did before and the guitars now have documentary evidence of my neglect  :-[

My 12 string suffers the most but still it rewards me with glorious tones that I don;t really deserve   :-[

Astonishingly, I was reading some posts on a newsgroup nto so long ago and someone else in the States had tried the very same idea...and with the same result.

I think the only solution is for someone to invent strings that never need changing.

I've just had to look at the book to see what David refers to, I think the way I do it is roughly the same although I have never quite got the hang of slotted headstocks yet - they're horrible even if they do look great  :(

Also the trick of bending the string 90 degrees after putting it through the whole of the adjustment "pin"
and locking the string even more in place by bending it 90 degrees up before overlapping it with the next
round of string works wonders for me - not nearly having to adjust the tuning as often as I used to have to.
Wondering what I did, before I learned this ....   ;D

So how much do you "guys and dudettes" tigthen the string before you start turning the adjustment "screw" ?
ie. how many rounds of string is it common/ sensible to end up with ?


Henrik

Maybe I'm an oddball  ::)
But I quite enjoy changing strings. I can get to clean all the little nooks and crannies that I can't reach when the strings are on - plus the lovely bright sound of new strings just makes it all worth while !!

Henrik, I always wrap twice round peg, then through hole and between the two previous wraps !!!

Cheers, Chris

Yes... you are an oddball  ;D

Whenever you feel the need to exercise your bizarre fondness for string changing please let me know and you can do the lot - particularly the mandolin  >:(

I can just see the stall at Cropredy -
"string the changes with Chris"  ;D

He needs aversion therapy.... anyone got a harp ????

No, but I've got a 12 string, 5 six strings, a mandolin and a bass he can have a go on.

 ;D ;D ;D

Paul

Bless ya heart Paul, that should help him  ::) ::)

we could get him to restring the school guitars - now that really is a demorallising task!

Next time I decide to restring all three autoharps (36 strings each) I'll know who to call on....

Jude   ;D

Now folks .... you know that we are going to be 'yellow carded' for this, but in the interests of helping Pel' I know that it's worth it

Clearly, if he has not been cured after Jude's autoharps then he will need to be referred as an emergency to Auntie Ces's Agony Agency

I have to confess to enjoying changing strings, but for the results rather than the task.  Clean guitar, brighter sound etc.  Also confess to ludicrous intervals in changing my 12-string, despite the wonderful sound.

However, this is not an offer to do it for anyone else - changing strings is good for the soul!

David

Dammit  >:(



Huh  :o

I agree with David above ... I enjoy a change of strings for the bright sound

May I say .. I do NOT do 12 strings FOC, nor mandolins, nor violins ... etc ...

However, a stall at Cropedy could be a goer !!!!!

Hi Chris  ;)

Aha !? - well, to me that sounds a bit different from "Ralph's" method as described in the Songs for Six Strings tab book.
( inserting string with 90 degree bend and then tightening the string with overlapping turns to keep ity in place )
But maybe your method is faster ? 

So do you change them one string at a time ? Or all off at once ?  And would the first method be better for the guitar ? (because of less change of stress )

Yes, getting a chance to clean the board is really nice - so do you use anything to remove the dirt ?


Btw. I forgot to download your Clare tab - do you think you could possibly upload it again or email it to me ?
Thank you.

Henrik

aahhh, the old "one at a time" or "all at once" question  :o

Well, my take on it is to do 'em one at a time unless doing set up work or whatever. You have to remember that the strings are pulling the neck one way and the truss rod is pushing the other way. Under tension your neck has a slight upwards curve ( it should not be straight ) - when you take the strings off it will go straight(er) or even bow the other way because of the tension in the truss rod. When you put the strings back on it ( hopefully ! ) gets pulled up into a nice curve to allow for the strings to vibrate without banging against your frets. Its only slight but vital. You can measure it and see it happening. So, removing and replacing all the strings at once is doing significant flexing things to your neck really, which has never seemed like a good idea to me unless absolutely necessary :o

When I string a new guitar that I've just made for the first time its been interesting watching the neck respond, initially to the tension of the strings and then to the adjustments made via the truss rod.  It makes you realize that a properly adjusted neck under string tension is quite finely balanced really. As the strings exert tension for the first time it takes a while for the forward bow to appear. A couple of times the neck has taken on the right anount of bow without any use of the truss rod but most times after an hour or so but some adjustment is necessary to bring it under control and straighten it out a little.

After that its general stable but only because the strings and the truss rod are in a kind of balance. To keep disturbing this balance so drastically as to remove all the strings at once each time you change them seems too much to me.

Very good points to keep in mind Al.  I had a vague knowledge of this but you have explained it very well.  I changed the strings on my new toy one by one.  Phew!

MAJ

Al

I know you're right, but I tend to do a complete change every few weeks depending on the amount of playing I've done and also whether I'm doing gigs.  I always feel that you're somehow cheating the audience if you play with old strings.  It's better since I changed to D'Addario coated extended play strings.  My compromise is to change the non-wound strings between changes as they lose their brightness faster than the bass strings.  Kyser's string oil before and after playing also aids string longevity.  My other fetish (pardon??) on changing strings is that I do like to service my guitars regularly, and with the older ones, eg. my 50's J45, I rub linseed oil into the fretboard every other change, which is not easy to do unless you've got the whole fretboard available.

BTW, most bizarre string change I ever saw was at the Corn Exchange in Cambridge a couple of years ago when the solo singer guitarist supporting Eddi Reader changed a string while he continued the song - sounds impossible but I saw it done, quite a party trick.

Hmm, as I reread this before posting it occurs to me that as far as guitars go I might just be suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder... :P

David

This should probably end up on the Guitarists' Forum - Maj??  ???- but I'm intrigued to know what a man who builds guitars looks for when he hands over folding money for one.  I'm starting to think of upgrading (evil euphemism for spending lots of money on a replacement) my workhorse Takamine EAN16CX to either a Lowden/Avalon auditorium/jumbo or a Martin D28.  Ebay could be the source so there's a link of sorts but not a Ralph one... ;D

David

MAJ says: moved from another thread as twas veering off topic.

Hi David,
I thought "obsessive compulsive disorder" described all guitar lovers one way or another  :) For imstance, I suffer every time you mention that '50s J-45 of yours   ;D

You know what, I must confess to being extremely lazy when it comes to oiling the fingeboard, but in my defence I have noticed over the years that I don't seem to have very oily fingers if you know what I mean. I do notice how grubby some other people's
fingerboards are compared with mine and if I comment they often say they cleaned it not long ago  :o

Also, I guess the fact I don't gig  these days helps too  :) Sounds like you do ?

Hi David, maybe we'll wake up in the Guitarist's forum  :)

I might make guitars but I never said they were as good as the expensive ones I've handed money over for  :) Although, to be fair, every one I have made has gone to a good home and is being well played etc.  But I am getting there, its a compulsive, obessive hobby for sure  :)

The guitar I bought though was a custom Fylde Aerial, one of the single malt models. These are the ones made from old whiskey casks ( oak ) and a washback vessel ( Oregon Pine ) that came from the Talisker distillery. As a lover of fine lutherie and fine malts its the perfect mix. Sounds great, of course, and the olfactory experience is amazing  :)  As the woods are from barrels and stuff they all have very individual looks and I have yet to take pics of mine ( too busy playing and sniffing )  but there's some pics of a similar one here  ( http://www.guitargal.com/fylde.html - look for the Fylde Aerial Single Malt  ) and on the Fylde website ( www.fyldeguitars.com follow  links to 'guitars' and 'Whiskey Guitar' , and also look for 'Single Malt' on the press reviews page ).

Love to see pics of your J-45 if you have any  BTW :)

MAJ says: Shazzam! You are now in the Forum with some of David's posts as they were off topic elsewhere.

Hi Al, David,

Are you suggesting my housekeeping is quirky, Al? :D

Tenuous link to the thread there David, but I'll let it go for now.  But after I have had a hoover around you might find yourselves in Chatter, who knows.... ::) ;)

MAJ
Mrs Mopp

Al

Wow! As an exiled Scot and a global business traveller for much of my professional life, I've built up a formidable stock of malts - must be near 100. :P :P :P  The thought of having a guitar which combines two of my greatest passions is fantastic.  Maybe I should add a Fylde to my shortlist, and my daughter is at university in Preston, so.....

Love to hear it some time.  Bob Fox who is a great favourite of mine and a good interpreter of Ralph's songs to boot, plays a Fylde and it always sounds beautiful.  Pics of J45 sometime soon once I take them and upload them.

See you on the Guitarists' Forum.

David

Al

I just like to have a smart guitar. ;D  They are investments, they become friends, and they are also tools of the trade if you perform.

Strangely enough, I polish and service the acoustics pretty religiously but can be relatively slapdash with my electrics (Strat and Tele) 8). Mind you, don't play them as much, but the sound doesn't depend on the integrity of the wood as it does on the acoustics.

David

Quote:
'Strangely enough, I polish and service the acoustics pretty religiously but can be relatively slapdash with my electrics (Strat and Tele)'

Ahh ha - that is what has been called in Guitarist mag Fender user syndrome - I bet you wouldn't do the same if you had a Les Paul

(by the way I am a Fender fanatic - my pride being a 1982 Squier 'JV' series Strat with Bare Knuckle pups installed - which incidently knocks the socks off of anything being made sub custom shop that I have played - and yes every scratch, dink or hole has a memory like a tattoo - sad or what)

 ;D ;D ;D

Well, I can heartily recommend a visit to the Fykde factory, they have one on display you can try ( or they did last time I was in touch with them ).

I have been a great admirer of Bob Fox ever since the days with Stu Luckley, great voice and no dullard on the guitar either. I sold a  Fylde Oberon on Ebay  a while ago and he bid on it - I was hoping he would win so I could have the great pleasure of meeting him etc but someone outbid him !! I thought about cancelling their bid but did not think it would go down well .. "I cancelled your bid cos I wanted to meet someone more famous than you "  ;D

Curt

Not quite - my Tele is a handmade beauty, ash body made by Richard Pendell at Alconbury, a special pressie from my family for a big birthday a couple of years ago.  Richard even put on a folk width neck for me!  Quite blew me away and still does.  Strat is candy-apple red Mexican build, about 5 years old.  Like them both, but as I'm mostly an acoustic player and follow Ralph's 1st position dictum (hah!), the Tele is much more my type of guitar.  I enjoy the fatter sound and it seems to be particularly good for country and folk picking.  My Fender hero is Robbie Robertson from the Band, especially on their many live recordings - what a player!

David

Wife and I sold many prized possesions when we left the UK in the 90's ... I think most sorely missed was my candy-apple red Strat. Maple neck, mid-80's build ... gorgeous. Also ditched the Tascam mini-studio, all my effects pedals, etc. Did hang onto my '81 Ovation though, there was just enough room to squeeze that on the van !!

Tele's are OK to play ... buy they just don't look as cool !!!   8)
Cheers, Chris

The only reason I used to play a Tele rather than a Strat was that on a Strat I always found myself accidentally turning the volume control down cos of my hand position ( I used my thumbpick and fingers still rather than a plectrum ) - I could never get over it so it was a Tele for me  :-[

David,

It is only just gone 8am and already I have had a stressful morning and your post about me being an Inefficient Bag has made me really laugh!!  Thank you.  You have cheered me up. ;D  I have however, hoovered up (or is that dysoned up?) a few of these posts and deposited them here in the Forum thread as talks were not about eBay anymore..... ;)

Goodbye!
Marianne Mopp, I.B.
 

I just got a Neck Adder tone pot (only £15 from Rothwell) replacement for my strat - I haven't fitted it yet but apparently it lets you blend in the neck pup to the bridge to give a more telecaster middle pup tone.  It needs a 5 way switch and my strat has a 3 way, so I need to go into town to get a 5 way before I fit it (that and the strings are still quite new, so i'll wait until they rust - should be about 5 years or so  :))

Anyone else use one?

Chris

You're probably right - even Robbie dropped his '52 tele for the Last Waltz movie to play an all-gold strat(presumably made by Terrys of York!). ;D ;D ;D

Strange connection - I worked in Bulgaria for six months in the early 90s, soon after the revolution and at the time that the disintegration of Yugoslavia started on the northern border.  When the wind came from the north you could hear the artillery and there was a real sense of unease.  I was there to kick off a mobile phone business.  Everyone was desperate to get a mobile which seemed bizarrely consumerist when the war could have crossed the border any day and we only had electricity every three hours.  It's all captured really well in Julian Barnes' novel "The Porcupine".  Strange days - I incorporated my experiences in the old iron curtain countries into a song last year.

What I do remember was the local folk music, particularly the close harmony female singers, spine-tingling and other-wordly.  Once you got away from the tourist trail and the cities you realised that this was the music they actually sang for recreation in the villages.

Presumably life in general is better these days.

David

Next time you're selling a guitar please let me know!

David

Maj

My pleasure.  Shame we didn't start up the alcoholic thread, though.  Folk music and drink are inextricably linked in my experience!

David

All Guitarists/Writers

I'm going to the Arts Centre at Stamford on Saturday, where Allan Taylor is doing a multimedia event based on a song-cycle about the works of Kerouac.  Concert, films, discussions etc.  I'm going primarily for a songwriting workshop that Allan is doing from 1:30.

Allan started in the 70s.  He was always good in every department but it was a revelation when I saw him again at St Neots a few months back.  Wry, world-weary, story songs, just what I love and try to write myself.  Also a doyen of weird tunings, which I also like.

As I'm already committed for the evening, the workshop is all I can manage.

Hope this isn't too far away from the thread ??? or disloyal to Ralph :-[ - my all-time writing model and hero - but a good opportunity to learn from a real master and a chance to meet up.

And Stamford is a really nice town with good restaurants and pubs! ;D

David

David, how bizarre !!

(mods, please feel free to shift this topic into another thread, I wouldn't like to hijack the guitarists post)


Not much ... still a great deal of poverty. Cars parked on pavements, wild dogs, etc. I also pay for 512k adsl, 24 hour service, we generally get around 30k for around 12 hours a day, and we live in the centre of Sofia !!


We curently have a member of staff, who left France 5 years ago to study Bulgarian folk music. She is now the 'only foreigner' to sing on the world stage as a member of the the 'elite' Bulgarian Folklore troope.

Names don't spring to mind, but I will ask her tomorrow am.

Cheers, Chris

Some time ago someone asked about the chords to "Lost Boys" ??  I can't remember who, but this afternoon whilst noodling about I remembered to have a go at them ... I think this is how it goes, as usual accent on the bass notes - this is Ralph we're talking about  :)

The verse is basically AM/G/F per lyric line with accent on the bass, I've been playing it hitting the root bass notes with my thumb and brushing the chords in betweem with my fingers. I have only been fretting the G on the sixth string as well, not the whole  chord, except for the G in thew sort of chorus bit  :) Also, at the end of the verse its basically an Em but there are hammer-ons on the third string 1st fret and second string 3rd fret sometimes making it an E7.


Am             G        F
We're going out tonight
Am              G       F
Lookign for a bit of fun
Am             G        F
There might be a fight
Am                G    F
It could be with anyone

G                           C
We're not scared of danger
F            C      G
Danger's just a flirt
C                 F   C
Fear is still a stranger
G                                        Em/E7
When you know you can't be hurt

etc

Cheers Al, it was me.  Straight to the guitar for this one and I think you're right as far as the first bit goes.  Not too sure about the third line of the second bit, but that's probably me just not remembering the tune.  I'll find the CD and have a go at playing along.  Also might be just the font spacing, but I think the Em at the end comes on 'can't'.
Thanks again.   8) 8) 8)
 

Hi  :)

Just had another run through this and I am pretty sure I am right - bit I am always open to the idea I might be wrong  :) Hitting the C bass note on the fifth string on the word 'fear' seems right to me..but...I have got the chords on the wrong words on the last line. The G should be above the word 'know' and the Em/E7 on the wort 'hurt', thanks for that cos I hadn't noticed until you drew attention to it  :)


Am             G        F
We're going out tonight
Am              G       F
Lookign for a bit of fun
Am             G        F
There might be a fight
Am                G    F
It could be with anyone

G                           C
We're not scared of danger
F            C      G
Danger's just a flirt
C                 F   C
Fear is still a stranger
               G                        Em/E7
When you know you can't be hurt

For sale...."That'll Do Babe" sounds great on it  ;)


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2385&item=7314504580&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Its a lovely guitar in all respects but its not very practical for me, besides I have just got a Tom Mates to replace it  ::)

ps Maj, hope I am allowed to do this  ???

I don't see why not on this occasion, Al.  Good luck.

Hey Al, I love your eBay handle!

And what a beautiful guitar.  Nine hours into the auction and over 50 views allready - I hope most of them are 'watching'.

All the best with the sale - and I hope you like your Tom Mates.  Is it like Ralph's?

Apparantly they smell wonderfull. You can get drunk just playing the guitar.

Paul

Hi John, I do like my Tom Mates, I haven't put it down since I got it - its a very "Gibson" sounding guitar with an especially wonderful bass.  Its very "Gibson" in feel too, its not hard to imagine why Ralph likes them, and maybe its not stretching things to imagine Ralph's influenced the designs too.

Ralph told me last Summer that Tom has stopped building guitars now, although I am sure he will still build a few but that his main activities are elsewhere. The one I have just got was made in 1989 but is in almost new condition, the guy who had owned it from new had obviously loved and cherished it.  It was on Ebay a few times and the guy kept lowering his price but amazingly had no bidders - so in the end I offered him £600 and he accepted £625 ( he started it off at £1250 ). Its an absolute bargain, and a super sounding guitar. My wife and kids are used to the revolving door that sees many a guitar come and go but even they have stopped to comment on its sound, so its joining the select little band of those that are to keep.

Its what Tom called his "Robert Johnson" model and its very much like the guitar RJ is pictured with in THE photo, ie sort of jumbo, 12 frets, maple back and sides. Its a plain Jane but the figure on the maple is very nice. Also, the binding has shrunk on the body and neck for some reason so there's a kind of lip around the edges that felt a bit strange at first but its so comfortable for me and sounds so good that doesn't matter any more.

I have to congratulate Ralph on his taste in guitar makers thats for sure, and I can see why he's had a few built for him. When I got to talk to Ralph I mentioned the latest 12 string Tom had made for him ( that I saw him play at Reading the last time he played there ) and Ralph confessed to having just got another from him, a small jumbo - so that makes it four I think ?? The 'Parrot' guitar, the the one made from the old bar from the Half Moon, the 12-string and the small jumbo.

Paul's absolutely correct, the smell through the soundhole is especially wonderful. I've wondered if it fades with time and thought that maybe if it did then it could be refreshed by maybe putting some of your finest malts in one of those plant sprays and spraying it inside  ;D

No, just pour it down your throat instead.  ;D

It looks really nice, but I must keep away from guitars on EBay after my last accident  ::) I showed the picture to my wife, but she wasn't impressed.

Hope the auction goes well Al.

Paul

Al

You b***er.  Fylde and single malt - two of my passions.  Tempted!!! Best to speak to the FD, I'll get me coat and calculator.

I'm seriously thinking about getting a smaller bodied auditorium guitar for gigging - have decided not to part with the Takamine because I need the power and attack of the dreadnought, so it will be an addition rather than a replacement.

I've been looking at Lowden O25 and even 032, also Martin 0018 and 0028.  As objectively as you can please, how does the Fylde compare?

Maybe this should be on Ebay, so tell me to bog off if you like!

David

*ROFL*  I can just imagine you sitting there sniffing your lovely guitar, Al - hehehe

Well, I just hope you stay at that level and don't venture into more advanced experiments
with such things as glue and lighter liquid (gas ?), once you sell your guitar  ...  ;D

Henrik

Hi David,

compared to the guitars you mention I would put this one in a different category soundwise.  The Martins and Lowdens are much more versatile I would say, especially for gigging. The Fylde is a very laid back little guitar, almost on the verge of being classical in its refinement, even in its standard cedar/mahogany woods. I don't know what you play but if like me you like to really dig in sometimes you will find it doesn't like it as much as a rosewood bodied Martin, like an 000-28. It doesn't like being strummed, its very sweet and resonant, but with a little bit of midrange honk that makes it nice for blues and raggy things like Blind Blake etc. It doesn't suit things for which you would desire lots of bite and attack.

I am not a big fan of Lowdens generally to be honest, although I was very smitten by an S-23 I played once and very nearly bought it. I think a bog standard Martin 000-28 is the best all round guitar in my opinion, especially with the vintage style neck and bracing on the Eric Clapton model. It just sounds great with everything, shame about the Eric Clapton signature but everything else about it is perfect and its the only 000 style Martin make ( except for the new 000-42 ) with the wider vintage style 'V' profiled neck and the shorter 24.9" scale.  I bought an OM-28V ( basically the same guitar but with a 25.4 scale neck )  rather than buy a guitar with Eric's name on it but in the end I had to admit that the 000-28EC models I had played just sounded better and suited my hands better so swapped it.

Al

Many thanks.  I really appreciate your honesty.  I'm off to the states on a business trip shortly and am working out the most cost-effective and tax efficient way of bringing back a Martin, so I'll probably go down that route.  Interestingly enough, a friend of mine has an EC 00028 but doesn't like it - prefers his O25 Lowden!  Won't buy it from him, however, it's a lefty!

Best of luck with the auction.  If we ever get to meet I promise to bring along an unopened single malt from my ludicrously lareg collection - I know you would appreciate it.

Best Wishes

David

What yer doing tonight  ;D

re the bringing guitars back from the States, I have noticed a couple of individuals buying on Ebay buying guitars from the States and then selling them in the UK. Whats especially interesting is that according to my figures, given what they've paid in the States, and then adding on Shipping, Duty, Vat and Ebay costs they would appear to be making very little profit given the risk of their initial outlay and even, in some cases, making a loss. I can only assume they are getting them into the UK without paying the full whack that I calculate -but how  ???

Getting the sender to send it as a "gift" is one dodge I've heard.  Doesn't always work but it's worth a shot...

I'll post the chords tonight, unless someone beats me to it  :)

Ok, ta(k)  -  hmmm, why would anyone beat you into doing that, Al ?    ;D

You really are far too nice a guy for that  - surely.


Think I have parts of it right, but looking for the right chords / versions of chords.

Any suggestions as to what the man himself actually plays ? Tuning ?  ( Key D ? , dropped D even ? )
( I guess it's not one of his more advanced things technically, but would still love to pin it down exactly  ;) )

Has Ralph btw. ever recorded this song himself, apart from that brilliant live version ?  ( and if not - WHYYY ?!?!? )


Cheers
Henrik

I don't play it very often, I play it with 6th string down to D ( dropped D ),not exactly as Ralph plays it most likely because although I love the song I've never felt grabbed by the guitar part enough to sit down and really try to pull it apart. I agree, that live version is superb, one of my faves in fact  :)

I got the Fairport Convention songbook recently ( not sure why really cos generally I hate Fairport Convention intensely, sorry, just my opinion  ::)  ) but it has the chords to Red And Gold in it and I was pleased to see that I was playing it as they had it - its always nice to get confirmation my ears are still working  ;D The book has some interesting bits in it - I just like to try different things  :)

Right now I am playing around with North American Indian music ... now where did I leave my headdress  ;D

Soon you will probably be using a "bow" with your guitar, Al  8) Sounds very avantgarde to me ...

I am glad to learn that I have been moving in the right direction at least  ....
Yes, it is always very nice to get confirmation that "you" ( ie. we !) ) are not complete idiot(s).

R&G is such a wonderful song and tune - one of those that really get stuck in your brains, right ?
Constantly asking to be hummed or whistled out loud  .....

Btw. I really enjoy your version of "Sand in Your Shoes", that you sent me a while back -
Have been listening to it many times now - really great playing and singing !
[ Guess I shouldn't be telling you this - you will probably soon be asking me for a fee for each "performance"  :o) ]

Any other Ralph songs you would like to "show off" ?  ;)  (  I  have heard your KTK btw. )

Not going to make any comments on your view FC here , as I would still like to be
able to frequent the chat room, you see ....
( Seems to be very FC-oriented turf in there  - been asked to come over for Cropredy festival several times ... )

Henrik

Henrik,
thanks for your very nice comments about my "Sand In Your Shoes" , you're very kind  :-[  :)
 
I have just embarked on recording some of my faves by various folk and I am intending to include a couple of Ralph's songs, msot definitely "Zig Zag Line" and probably "Peppers And Tomatoes". I've got 14 to do, so far I've done Loudon Wainwright's "The Swimming Song" and "United States Of Mind" by Alan Hull - as well burning cds for friends etc I intend to stick them on my website for download   :) No commercial purpose behind it - as Ralph has said on this forum himself, creating music is its own reward  ;D

Hello Chaps

I think I play it much the same way, Al.  Tune 6th to D then its D using the 5th fret on the first, Bm the same, then it's the familiar Ralph bass runs up and down from D through G and back up again with a few A's thrown in.  One of the easier Ralph songs and one that reminded me that when you're writing a narrative song to keep the music straightforward so that the thread of your story achieves its impact without distraction.  Ralph is a master of this.

David

Right now I am playing around with North American Indian music ... now where did I leave my headdress  ;D

So you need a headdress when you're playing your axe? ;D ;D ;D

When my book of Aboriginal tunes arrives I need to get a Didgeridoo, I like to get in character  ;D  ;D

Hi Henrik,

here's "Red And Gold"  :)     As David so rightly says, it is quite simple really, and again as David says, it does not detract from the narrative of the song because of it. The only bits to needed to nail it really are the much familiar descending bass run form D down to G and some of the melodies around the D chord, all from the standard Ralph McTell toolbox, as it were  :)   The melody and narrative are the true stars rather than the guitar part.

I can transcribe the instrumental bit Ralph plays in tab but I think its fairly easy to work out, you need to start the melody with an A on the fifth fret of the first string on the first D chord, same as used in "Factory Girl", and sort of walk it down with the melody and bass - if you want it I will tab it  :)

Allan



[Chorus]

D       F#m      Em    A

Red and Gold are royal colours

D A/C#  Bm  D/A     G         A

peasant colours are green and brown


D/F#            G
green is the corn

D                           Bm                   Bm/A

in the brown earth when its growing


G       D             A              D
red and gold when the harvest is cut down



[Verse]


        D           Em

Through Cropredy in Oxfordshire


    G                  A

The Cherwell takes its course


D                    G               A
and the willows weep into its waters clear


D/F#               G
my name it is Will Timms


        A               D
and its here that I was born


    G                  A                D
and raised in faith my king and god to fear ..../..../...




[other bit !]


A                                 D

And the dreams I had were red and gold


        G      D               Asus4    A

and the little stream became a flood


     D/F#      G        D             Bm      Bm/A
from all my brothers killing one another


G              D               A               D
till walking I realised it was all my own dear blood



[the instrumental bit is based around the chorus...]

D - F#m -  Em -  A

D - A/# - Bm - D/A - G - A

D/F# - G - D - Bm

G - D - A - D

Ahh, that's so great, Al  -  Man(g)e tak / Many thanks   8)

A truely great job by you -  I really must go practicing right away.
( My neighgbours will probably wonder and become p..... off at me (just after 1 AM here  ::) ) ,  -
there are ignorant people and "art haters" everywhere these days it seems  ;D  )

Cheers
Henrik

Yes, you are so right - amazing narrative along with a great tune - gets me every time I hear it  ;)

Well, I think I have found out  - or shall ?  ;D - most of it by now.  In some cases, it seems you can
"skip" some of the chords when playing the instrumental part ( or maybe it's just slightly different from the song parts ? ).
At least it does feel very natural keeping it simpler and even sounds pretty good so far.

But in case you don't have anything more important to do, I shall not complaint if you tab it.
Probably many others will be interested in this true and somewhat "overlooked" gem too.
( Have you started practicing it yet, Lady May ? ) 

Henrik

One of my new team in the US has tentatively got me a gig in Dallas next weekend.  It'll either be a borrowed guitar or a new Martin 00028 ;D - thanks Al.  Don't think I'll be playing Red and Gold cos the locals will get confused if I do an English Civil War song... ??? ???

I'll keep you posted on the trip - Detroit and Dallas should provide the contrast for at least one new song!

David

Don't forget to get someone to take a photo of you in action David.... ;)

Thanks Maj, I will, but because it's Texas I'll duck when I see a flash, just in case!

David

Favourites? How can you pick?? ;) I love playing Mrs Adlams Angels, Nannas Song, Kew Gardens & Hesitation blues. Just getting the hang of Winnies Rag but I'll be buggered if I can get my fingers around Hands of Joseph!! >: :'( (Suggestions anyone?)

Keep practicing !!!   In the end your poor fingers will get the message(s)  .....

I guess, I must have played HOJ hundreds of times by now, if not more, and it seems to be flowing more naturally
now than ever - after several years (10+), as I worked it out bit for bit all by myself   

In my experience it IS the constant exposure to your fingers and hands that is the key to success  - Surprise, Surprise !   

SO never mind, if it doesn't sound great at first and the timing is all over the place and you don't
seem to be getting anywhere at all ! . In my experience it even seems to help, if you deliberately play
such relatively difficult pieces more sloppy or "strangely" and more laid back, as your fingers  - and you ! -
are then able to be much more relaxed and more receptive to the repetitive training of all the patterns of
movements. And so your poor fingers will adjust to move more efficiently and relaxed in anticipation of the
next chord, hammer on, pull off and base run etc. This will enable you to cut all the little corners that
in the end will make the piece more fluent and better sounding ( more continuous / less abrupt  ) - all the 
little things which are normally too difficult or too troublesome to explain in a tab - or maybe are not even
realized by the tab-writers / artists themselves. So look for cheats and tricks .... 


You can also gain A LOT by using a version of a grip that makes the next transition easier, and if possible
only use as much of a chord as is nescessary - sometimes 2 fingers are enough as in parts of the basic riff
in First Song and in Nettle Wine. ( If you haven't tried those two, there are lots of exciting challenges
and lots of work - and rewards ! - for you in them as well  ).


But since you are able to play Winnies Rag, which is not exactly easy either, I am sure you will be able to
nail HOJ "soon". And I guess you therefore probably already know all what I am trying to say here, so
I will finish for now by wishing you happy picking & sweatty practicing with HOJ and all the other Ralph treasures.


Henrik

Henrik makes some good points about tab ... it can only ever be a guide. I like to tab stuff when I have worked it out ( although I never seem to ever forget anything anyway once I have learnt it  ::) ) but its impossible to capture all the variantions or nuances, or even the sort of phrases involving a mix of brush strokes and pickign etc.

The tab books with Ralph's material in it are as good as any I have ever seen but I hardly ever find the way they are written down totally satisfying. Working it so it sounds right to you is part of the magic I always feel  :) Also, it shouldn't be assumed that the tab writer heard it right anyway.

ps Henrik, I will tab "Red And Gold" shortly, I've hardly been at the home the last few days  :(

Thanks fellas. I'll keep trying but it would help if I could find the right key for starters! That's the problem I had with Hesitation Blues all those years ago! ::) I've been playing that for 10 years or so. The end of HOJ I can manage, it's just that intro ..... I'm convinced Ralph has 8 fingers on his left hand ! ;D thanks for the help though!

Hi Skipper   ;)

Well, he actually has 9 fingers on his left hand and 6 on his right, but don't tell anyone, OK ? 
We don't want to completely discourage all the aspiring guitar pickers in here  .....


There is a very good tab of HOJ in the TAB-book called Songs For Six Strings - including the Joseph Spence instrumental
"Sweet Dreams of Heaven" ( on which the song itself is based, I guess - at least Ralph stated something to that effect at a
concert here in the 80's ).

Alas I only have access to an old fash. printer scanner here, and I am NOT going to run my newly aquired
and autographed SFSS-tab book ( no. 812 of 1000 !!!  8) ) through that one  *ROFL* ( it CAN'T go through, you see -
only paper sheets and photos in a special sheet holder *SIGH*), so you will either have to buy this great tab book -
I recommend it very much !!! - or hope that somone else here take pity in you.

( or maybe pray very humbly that I get near a photo copier or descent scanner any time soon  ;D )


Some hints for you :

1) The song is in the key of D, but Ralph plays it in dropped-D tuning - ie. the low E string tuned down to D
( so tune it along with the 7'th fret on the A-string , or the D -string  )
I am myself in the process of learning how to play it using this special tuning - but it can actually be played in
an ok version even without using this special tuning (easier), but wil then of course lack the effect of the
"slappy", deep open "D"-string (E-string).
l

2) The intro begins with a slide from 1 to 2 on the high E-string  ( ("Dmin" ?)  --> D  - so use a clever fingerering here !  )


     Intro.              D                                    G               A
    ----------1-----|-----2----2------------------------|----------------------0-------------
    -----------------|----------------3-----------3------|------------3---------------2------
    -----------------|-----------------------2------------|-----4------------------------------    ......  ?    [ You take a pick  ;D ]
    -----------------|----------------0-----------0------|------------0---------------2------
    -----------------|------------------------------------|----------------------0-------------  
    -----------------|-----0----------------4------------|-----5------------------------------
              s->


3) The instrumental begins part with a D on the 5'th fret  (  [ 0 0 0 7 7 5 ] ), then it's down to G(6) etc.



OK, I hope these little hints will guide you in the right direction(s) .....

Enjoy "Hands of Joseph"  - I do "all the time" ....
Henrik

Correction :

The G should be above the [5--4--] in the 3'rd bar AND the A above the [-0---0] ,
the D of course above the [0----2] in the first.

Henrik

Thank you , Al - and thanks for the kind offer - I shall look very much forward
to seeing and trying the real deal    ;)

Henrik

Hmmm, Al - I am getting worried that you will really be using this didgeridoo for smoking that
very special sort "tobacco" that the two Hobbits Pippin and Merry smoke in Lord of The Rings
(Return of the King) .....

My, my - what sniffing your guitar can lead you into   :'( ... and he was even such a talented guy - that poor Al fellow ....

Henrik

OK, nice to know that I may not be a complete fool after all, when I feel that there are some small "errors" - or differences rather - in this notation as compared to what Ralph actually plays - or little, but in my opinion important details left out (for instance between the first two 2's on the E-string in the intro) - maybe too keep it simpler for the "new" guitar player ?

Anyway it is still possible using this TAB as a foundation and starting inspiration to come pretty close to what Ralph plays,
if you invest the extra time and effort to listen closely and dare making experimentsand variations, Skipper   ;)

Al, would you happen to know which version of HOJ this TAB is closer too ?
And have you ever heard the accompanying midi-version of HOJ ? or Roger Brown's version even ?
( Didn't the midi-CD come for free with the first few copies of SFSS btw. ? )


Henrik

I thought you had to send for the CD with the midi files on...? I have a *very* low numbered copy of the SfSS book and mine didn't come with it.  :-\

I've got a tab version (1982 Misty River Music) which is excactly as Henrik tabbed it out above. However, I always play this in a standard tuning, using my thumb on second fret to make the D/Fsharp ... dead easy that way !!!
Chris

OK, You are probably right, MAJ - as always.
Just my poor memory leaking again, I guess  ;D 

And what would that low number of your SFSS book be ?  Numero Uno ?  ;)

Henrik

I see  ;)  Thank you, Chris - I miss some parts in this TAB compared to his more recent (live) version(s) - eg. the amazing base riffs
( not the long descending one)

Yes, good point - use 2'nd fret F# on the E-string with your thumb, when appropriate ( D), and you don't have to
compensate for the open D (in the dropped D-tuning), when playing "on" some of the other chords. But you do lose
some deep base options, the "slappy" sound and some variation of the G-chord for example 8)

Well, "dead easy" once it sits there *LOL* - but took a very long time for me to get it right.  ;)

Cheers
Henrik

I have just started working on Babe, so expect me to arrive at the goal posts in about 10 years or so  ...   ;)

And I am trying to implent the droppped D-tuning along with my "own" version of Hands of Joseph -
actually seems to be progressing ok now, as I get used to the weird chords.

How about our other pickers here ? Any long term Ralphinian projects that you are working on ?
Have you "suddenly" found yourself being able to play stuff you never dared dreaming of ? 
Managed to get past hurdles that seemed invinsible ?  ;)


Henrik

Yeah!   Grrrr! <smashes guitar in frustration, and takes up knitting>

Sorry to learn this, Geoff     :'(       *ROFL* 
Is it beyond repair ? 1 Gibson de Luxe for sale cheaply ?   :D

H.

trying to knit a Tanglewood....but just keep tangling my knitting! :-[

Just keep practicing and practing and ....  ;D
Same as with the string picking really .....  ::)

A Tanglewood ?  Is that a guitar brand ?  ( and a pun  ;) )

H.

Sure is and sure is.  A good one too on both counts.

Does that make sense? :-\

 ;)
Don't encourage me when it comes to puns!  I perpetually needle my family with them, when I'm not pulling the wool over their eyes, and getting them in stitches.   
To get this 'thread' back on track - I don't think I'll ever be able to play "That'll do, Babe" with any degree of competence...I'm stilll working on the twiddly "F#" bit of "Ferryman".  I live in hope though!

Hi Henrik,

life and work have finally left me with enough energy in an evening to sit down and tab ( soem of ) "Red And Gold". I was going to tab it all but couldn't be arsed  ::)  So, I've tabbed the intrumental intro and musical intelrude, which is the same as the chorus except when playing the chorus you don't play the melody. Also tabbed is a typical verse. The other kind of chorus is as per the chords earlier in this thread. These bits should enable you to fill in the missing pieces  :)

I have attached a .txt version of the tab ( Red and gold.txt ) and also have attached the .tef file which, as usual, can be watched and listened to by downloading the TEFView program from www.tabledit.com. To do this the file will need renaming when saved to your hard disk with the suffix .tef instead of .txt

I have had to do this cos you can only attach .txt files to these messages.

As usual this is how I play it, its a long while since I sat studying Ralph playing it so variations will have crept in.

Have fun  :)





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Wow, that is so great, Al !  Thank you sooo much for all your efforts  8)

Yes, I am sure I shall have great "fun"  ;)  And guess I shall be able to figure out
what little is misssing - helps a lot when you get the general picking idea and progression.

Ah, yes -  I remember "us" having had that problem before with attached files of other types.
What a good thing that computers are really stupid, eh ?  ;D
And I actually already have TEFview installed - as well as Guitar Pro 4 *) - maybe it can
read TEF-files too ?  I will try.

From what I have heard previously I am sure your version will be excellent and pretty close
to Roger's Ralph's - and thus a great source of inspiration and guidance to me.
Just don't expect me to have it all ready by next week, ok ?  ::)


Henrik

PS. Did you ever manage to catch that one (GP4), when I uploaded it for you ?
Just curious as to what you think about it  ....

PPS.  How's dat didgeridoo coming along btw. ?

Hi Henrik, haven't had time to try GP4, time is so short that I tend to cram as much actual playing into what tiem I get, I'm bursting full of ideas for my new cd which I am all set to record but can't get the time - I booked a rmeote cottage in Wales with great acoustics over Easter to disappear and produce my 'masterpiece' (  ::)  ) but instead took the kids for exciting hikes around the mountains of Snowdonia through blizzards and hailstones the size of marbles - great fun  ;D  I WILL try out GP4, honestly  :)

Err, please Mister Al, can I be the first in the queue for a singed signed copy of your CD.  I thought your pieces on the "Our Side of Your Stage" CD were fab.

MAJ
A fan

MAJ you are a wag  ;D :-[  :-[  But, yes, you can have one signed, or singed for that matter  ;D

Hi Al - ah, that's ok - I was just wondering and curious to hear your views .....  ;)
Your playing  - and kids ;D - are of course more important ! So does any of your children
seem to follow in your foot steps with respect to musical interest and wanting to learn to play etc. ?

Your plans of recording a new CD sounds very exciting, but what is it about remote cottages in Wales !?!??!! 
That part sounds strangely familiar somehow .....   ::)

I think you are very right to put your childen first, and anyway judging from your discriptions of that amazing landscape
and wild nature I guess you will soon feel a new song coming on   ;D  And at least you didn't try putting up a tent
in a blizzard unlike certain other people ....  DOH  !  ::)

Wishing you all the time and calm nesc. for recording
Henrik

PS. So would you use your PC as a recording studio or would you have other equipment ?

Why not ?  I love puns  ;D


"I don't think I'll ever be able to play "That'll do, Babe" with any degree of competence ...."
Hmm, guess you will either just have to practice some more then ......  OR  .......

maybe we could ask Ralph to write a really easy version called "That's enough, Geoff"  ?  ;D

"I live in hope though!"
OK, keep hoping - and practicing too !

Henrik

I think I will ask Ralph next weekend to take a look at this topic.  It will make him smile and you never know, "That's Enough, Geoff" may end up on the next CD. ;D :P ;)

Cottages in Wales, yes it does have a familair ring about it doesn't it  ;D  I first hiked my way round N Wales in the mid 70's, staying in Youth Hostels and I've been in love with the area ever since. Believe me, I have erected many a tent in a blizzard, or rahter tried to, its jsut I;ve got more sensible with age !

For recording I lug a 16 track digital recorder around, the AW16G by Yamaha, I use about 2% of its facilities I fear cos I am still a techinical luddite, ie I record 'performances', I don't mess about with all that editing malarkey and things  :) But, its eq presets and reverb are really good and easy to use, and easier to carry aroudn than a pc  :)

I have two sons and both are very responsive to music, but apart form doodling on any guitars lying around, neither seem particularly precocious about it at the moment, but give it time, if they become interested there's guitars and things for them to pick and play any time they want to  :) Whenever I have to stay away they both tell me that the sound of me playing my guitar downstairs whilst they are falling asleep is what they miss the most, which fills me up a bit I have to say. I play about two hours an evening on average, often into the early hours if the mood takes me and they've grown up with so I guess the place seems quiet without me  :(

Gosh Al

Both sympathise and empathise.  Don't have the same distractions with my children these days as they are both independent in every way except financially, but business is a big impediment.

I've been working in parallel on two projects since I got my Boss 1180CD earlier this year - a simple demo with blended vocal and guitar tracks to send out to clubs, then for the longer term a produced version of the same songs for issue as a CD later in the year.  However, every time I think I've got the set order right, out pops a new song, like the one I wrote while travelling in the US in the last two weeks.  Then I buy myself a new guitar and I just know that they will all sound better on the Taylor.....

I work in the electronics industry where we have a saying that the only way to release a product is to shoot the engineer in charge.  I see parallels!!!

I need to get a cottage in Wales too or this will never get done.

Oh, and Maj, I did the gig in Dallas, at the bluegrass club in Lakewood.  It went down surprisingly well, given the CW style of everyone else, and with a brand new guitar.  The song that got them going was the new one "From Detroit to Dallas" which is actually highly critical of the US govt, if indirectly, so you can't generalise about Americans, even in Texas.  No piccies - we forgot the camera.....

David

Hi David, sounds like you had quite a happy trip all in all  :) I keep thinking I should back into the clubs again, its just over ten years since I last made a live solo appearance but I am getting the old urge :) When I do get my new recordings done, hopefully sooner rather than later, I'll post a couple of links up here and you can critique them for me  :)  How'd you get on with customs ?

Doh !

Just played my tab for "Red And Gold" and realized I had mis-transcribed the bass notes I play in the second bar. I've placed them on the 4th string but I actually play them on the third - of course, you will all have noticed this  ;D

Amended version attached  :)



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Al

I got back into playing clubs a couple of years ago after a 20 year hiatus, which coincided with a rich vein of songwriting form which shows no signs of drying up, thankfully.  Played a lot at St Neots, my local club, and have gradually spread to Cambridge, Wisbech, Ely etc.  When you get a standing ovation at Cambridge you know your songs are ok!  I also made a conscious decision last year that I wasn't going to do covers any more, to force me to showcase my own songs and get them polished to the best of my ability.

However, I still listen, copy and steal from my mentors, especially Ralph - that's where all of my bass runs in D come from!

Business has to come first, that's reality, but I want to get to the stage where my songs get the recognition even if I don't personally.  I'm under pressure to get some product out there, and hope to have a site up soon, plus as I've said earlier a demo and in due course a properly produced CD.

Let's swap MP3's when we're ready.

Customs didn't ask, I didn't tell - I got an old but sound Taylor case when I bought the guitar.  So a real bargain in the end.

Stay in touch, it would be nice to get together some time and swap some tunes.

David

OK, thanks a lot, Al  ;D - I will try how that sounds in a moment.

Btw. I really love that 4xxxx5 in the second half of the first bar. I had completely missed that in the small parts that I had
worked out by myself, but it gives the intro so much more atmosphere with that deep base.

I guess I shall have to investigate the possibilities of this special tuning further, as I get used to the dropped-D "weirdities"
differences.

Cheers
Henrik

Superb but Grrrr :( about not having the camera!!  When are you going to be 'live' here...?


Now listen, I'm already in the queue for a 'singed' copy of Al's new CD but I've put an old bag in my place :o (she doesn't mind, honest) and I've joined the queue for yours.  So, Mister David, I want one of yours too, y'hear y'all...

MAJ  ::)
CD Collector

 ;D 

Still practising. Need more fingers on my left hand.  Any ideas?

Geoff

Nice to hear that you are keeping it up, Geoff.

In my experience it often helps, if you start looking for different ways of
"fingering" the chords  - even swapping version of a chord within a bar ! - ,
or only use as much of them - maybe only a string or two - as is needed in the situation.
But you probably already know this ?

Would like to lend you a hand finger, but I really need them all myself, you see  ::)

H.

 

Thanks for the order Maj.  That's you and my mum then!

David


MAJ adds:  so that's handbags at dawn then....

Very interesting, Al - thanks  ;D

Wondering how a guitar can suddenly turn out so wrong ?  Maybe a string that
wasn't attached properly ? Or a faulty mechanic ? Guess we have all had days where
the guitar seemed difficult to tune. ( The trick about bending a string when inserting it
in the tuning mechanic seems to have done wonders for me - I never really knew the correct way
before that, I have to admit :o )

While visiting that site I noticed that they actually have back packer Martins, ie. mini guitars with respect
to sound case. Very cute - didn't know they act. existed, but have often thought it would be a great
thing to have.

http://www.guitarshop.dk/product.asp?product=1687

Have you ever had any chance to hear one of those ? And what was you reaction ?

Obviously they can't have the same big sound as the "real thing" - ? - , but what if you built
a small (battery run) amp into them ?  Maybe you could even reduce the guitar to just a finger board with strings ? -
One you could take apart (2) for transport purposes ?  I bet a lot of people would love that, especially those of us
who have had to carry a guitar bag with its heavy content around by hand for a long time while on "tour" *LOL*


Henrik

MAJ says: Quote above is by Al, taken from his post in Counting Guitars. I've moved this response as guitar chat was more appropriate here...Some subsequent posts also moved here.

I have got the Troubadour back packer guitar, which is similar. It does not have a pickup, but you can egt ones with a pickup in.

Paul

Ok, thanks, Paul.

Any oppinion of the (acoustic) sound quality ( or lack of it ? ) of such a "guitar" ?  ;)

Henrik

For a £90 quid guitar, taht will fit in a motorcaravan cupboard, the sound is very good. Obviously lacking the bass of a full size body, but a very pleasant bright sound. I used it on our palm sunday procession this year, with 2 other full size guitars, and my melody line carried over both of them playing rhythm.

Paul

Aha, that's very impressive - pleasantly surprised here  8)

Thanks again, Paul.

Cheers
Henrik

I have a Martin backpacker, not terribly fond of it I have to say, I think the LX-1 with the solid spruce top might be a better proposition, the backpacker is just such an awkard shape to handle. By altering my style to anchor my pinky on the top I can just get enought stability to whizz through some Blake tunes etc but for anything more demanding, as in moving up and down the neck,  its just impossible to handle and drives me mad !

I am on the way to getting rid of mine might look at a Baby Taylor or make myself a 12-fret Martin 0 style for the breaks in the caravan instead.

Having said all this, it was the guitar upon which I first worked out "Sand In Your Shoes", "Bentlyey & Craig" and "The Setting" whilst on holiday in Cornwall one time - I think I've mentioned this before :-)

Soundwise its ok, what you;d expect from its modest body size, and as Paul says it is quite a cutting sound, although I find the volume lacking with fingers.

From the look of the shape of it, it could probably also double as a great paddle, when I go canoing  ;D

Very interesting about the stability problems, Al - it never occured to me that that would be an issue with
such guitars. So do those two you mention have different shapes / sizes, so that you can avoid this problem ?
[ Guess that finished off my vision of the "fretboard only" (electric) back packing guitar too  :'( ]

H.

Hobgoblin do a travel electric http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/contfram.htm about halfway down the page.

My travel guitar is pear shaped, not like the Martin at all. It tends to slip off the lap if I don't wear a strap. Access to the top frets is excellent.

Paul

It seems very quiet in here!

I keep dropping in but nothing seems to have happened since May  ::).....

I suppose everbody is practising  :)

I've been working my way through the SFSS tab book so that's my excuse! I'd be interested to know what you are all practising at the moment....MAJ how is your playing coming along?

To start the ball rolling this week I've mostly been learning......Willoughby's Farm, Terminus and London Apprentice

I've been practisin' lots but not much by Ralph I am sorry to say  :-[

This week I've been having a Robert Johnson week, last week was trying to commit to memory a tune I have been studying for ages by a staggeringly good Italian guitarist named Franco Morone - his cd "Melodies OF Memories" is possibly the most inspiring instrumental record I've ever heard since John Renbourn's "The Hermit" or Bert Jansch's "Avocet" in my opinion - the melodies and execution are just amazing - I want to learn every track on the cd but have so far got up to 1.5 !!!

Al,
There is a website of a webbie friend of mine at http://justapicker.com and he has some nice Martins. He also has some downloadable fingerpicking stuff there. It might be worth a visit.

Me, I'm in Mississippi John Hurt mode at the moment, trying to get "Let the mermaids flirt with me", and failling badly.

Cheers

Nice site Leighton .. all I need now is another site with all the tab for the downloads   :-\

Too hot here to get into any serious practice, so usually stuff that takes no thinking about (stones, taylor, neil young, etc) whilst drinking wine on the terrace of an evening 

What a wonderfully sybaritic lifestyle, Chris.  After all that's happened to you in the last few months you deserve to enjoy it.

Right now I'm finalising the middle part of my own Great War Trilogy and trying hard not to make it too obvious that all the drop-D riffs have essentially been nicked from Ralph.............

David

Very slowly I have to admit.  There always seem to be too many other more pressing things to do, that require my time.  But I shall keep plugging away....slowly..... ;)

Hi Leighton, just got round to visiting this site - he's not a bad player is he, very clean. I thought his "Buck Dancer's Choice" and "Babe It Ain;t No Lie" were a bit mundane, but can't fault that "Victory Rag" - I'll be having a bash at that later tonight  ;D I wouldn't mind being let loose on his guitar collection either. Who is he, does he play at the cub in Wigan ? I was impressed with the sound, although the acoustics were a teeny bit brash, almost like he uses picks on his fingers or uses false nails,or perhaps its just the mic because the mic he lists does often produce a brash tone  ?

It's all that sword training, right, Maj ?   ;D

H. - Tapeosaurus

Quite so - I'm going to ask Ralph to write a song about it / me / whatever. ;D (or, perhaps one of our songsmiths could come up with something - Leighton, Steve, etc. etc. :o )

MAJ
Sword-o-saur

If you're looking for a sword link song, is "Because of Toledo" by the Blue Nile too tenuous or basically just smartass???

David

Sorry for the late reply Al,

No he's based over in Cananda, I "virtually" met him when on the Mudcat website. Originally he had all the tunes as a download, but he has removed some of them and has put a CD together.

I am a new guitarist (I have just buy my guitar to day)

I need help from specialists

what is for you the easiest Ralph' s song  to play on a guitar

Don't set your sights too high, too early, Frenchy.
When you've learnt to feel your way around your guitar a little I'd suggest maybe "Terminus" to start.
Good luck.

John.

Where Can I find the tablature of this song (Terminus)  ????

It's in his 1984 book "The Guitar & Songs of Ralph McTell"..not in print any more but does come up on e-bay sometimes...keep an eye out for it!

Geoff

Because this book is no more print,is there somebody who  can send me the tabs of Terminus

Many thanks.

I will order 'songs for six Strings(Perhaps I receive it for Chrismas(:A gift from my wife?)' but Terminus is not on this book

Favourite to play - The Setting.

Favourite to perform - Bentley and Craig

So similar to "pity the boy," I run them together as a single solo.

Hmm. My avatar seems to have gone astray.

I understood this to be a "non-smoking" room.

Favourite to play - Nettle Wine

Favourite to perform - Girl from the Hiring Fair, Sand in Your Shoes

Happy New Year to you guitar buffs!  My NY Resolution is to understand what on earth you are talking about.  We'll start with...

What's the difference between 'playing' and 'performing'?

John.
Guitarly Challenged

I'd say it was the difference between having an audience or not.  Lotsa songs I'll 'play'...but a much more limited repertoire for 'performing'...even just at folk clubs, which are usually very tolerant of my lack of talent. 

Fiddling around with the bass dropped to D just now I found myself playing "The Mermaid and the Seagull."
I'd completely forgotten what a lovely, satisfying  piece of music to play and sing that that is.

Following on from my last post, this evening I dropped into open D for a bit, (The Setting, Water of Dreams, Pity the Boy and a couple of Joni Mitchell tunes,) then tuned up into DADGAD and tried to remember "the first time ever I saw your face" -Bert Jansch's version.
As I tuned back up, I remembered that Clown was now an option and played that.
I haven't played that for years, but again, what a lovely piece to play.

I think that over the years Ralph has produced a nice little selection of tunes in open D, they're all quite satisfying to play and to your list I would also add "Birdman" and "Bentley And Craig", I almost always end up playing them once in that tuning  :) But I was actually prompted to post a reply because this morning I was noodling around and suddenly realized I had drifted into playing "Mermaid And The Seagull" for the first time in years and it struck me as remarkably coincidental when I saw your posting about it  :)

The setting is the only Ralph song that I have looked up the tab for.  it seemed to me too distinctive to do it with three chords though I'm sure you could - much in the same way that Christy Moore did Fairy tale of New York very effectively with a very simplified accompaniment. Also I think the guitar solo adds a  lot.

the difference between performing and merely playing has a myriad shades of distinctinction.

There are songs I simply can't play because I've not bothered to put the time in.

there are songs I can play and will do if asked when doing a floorspot or some gig in a pub or restaurant.

But the setting and bentley and craig are the only two I would play if someone had actually paid to come and see me. 

these two songs I feel I relate to very strongly, and that I can personalise.

the setting because, back in the mists of time my family came from Ireland, and I suppose you always wonder what your life would have been like if your family had not emigrated.  and also you wonder if back there there was a scene a bit like this.   that play Dancing at Lughnasa has that same sort of , was it like this...? vibe.

bentley and Craig I relate to because my father was a policeman in the 1950's and I can remember my father having to make a contribution from his very small wage when a colleague was murdered on duty.  and poor as we  were I can remeber him saying that he didn't resent paying.  Also the monstrously unfair trials, the inevitable death sentence, the films on tv of the scmenes outside the prison on the exection days and the endless interviews in the newspaers.  I particularly remember one day it showed this chap sitting down to steak and chips in a motorway cafe - it was harry allen the hangman on his way to do string up some poor sod.

because I feel my guitar technique can deal with these songs pretty well and my insights lend some intensity.  the setting needs a better listening more attentive audience that Bently and craig which is  very direct - a great performance piece!

Thanks for that, Big Al.  You were right here performing Bentley and Craig.  Let me know if you get a gig up Manchester.

John.

Hi Al,
you might find yourself in the minority with regard to the Yamaha, but thats ok isn't it, thats what opinions are for :-) I was at the Leicester Racecourse gig ( you might have read my review of the evening ) - wasn't Jaques Stotzem amazing. Anyway, as you say, Ralph aired the Yamaha but this was because he was there representing Yamaha supposedley. As it happens, he seemed to be unaware of this himself and I when I mentioned this to him at the preceding Maidenhead gig he said "Am I ? Well I'd better take the Yammy then" :-)

theres probably not that much in it.  theres a dozen variables in the eq and microphone positionng in the yamaha, and there must another million variables in Donard's bag of tricks. Donard wouldn't let the man sound bad!

I think the advantage the yam has is that the whole thing is put together by a great design team.  Sticking a fishman or whatever into a classic guitar. well its okay - but basically you're messing about with an acoustic instrument.  i don't know if you saw the late eric Roche's set up at Leicester the year before, which involved an XLR and a jack coming out of a Lowden.  if you went to Lowden and asked them to cut a hole in one of their guitars they'd probably refuse. (mind you Eric looked like he meant business!) ken Nicol (a great picker and currently with Steeleye) for example wan't even use a cutaway - he says its messing about with what is after all the classic and optimum design.

Listen to the DVD - the Yamaha is a VERY good sound.

Yes I heard JS at leicester.  Good technician, but a bit abstract for me.  I missed Eric and Steve Hicks wasn't there this year.  the local duo were very good.

all the best

al

Sand in Your Shoes is also in open D, fun to play, as is Genesis 1 v20.

I often play Genesis 1 v.20 in open D, but the "old brown song book" from the 70's indicates that the tuning Ralph used was  DADF#AE. I have tried it like that and the opening and fill riff does fall more naturally under the hand. The little high fill passage used in the introduction comes naturally around the 7th fret too. I recorded it with one guitar in open D and a second guitar track with the top string left on E for the fills and interludes. It does give the song a slighlty uplifing, yearning  quality as well as the tonality of warmth and mystery from the open D tuning. Since this is a slightly unusual tuning and that particular song book is usually very accurate, I think this is the authentic version. It still sounds good in open D though

the other side of this is listen to "Travelling Man" and it most definitely isn't. Indeed, the sound on the DVD is not too bad, but in concert it leaves a bit to be desired ......doesn't it ?

Its all subjective and down to taste but give me a mic'd up guitar any day :)  The sound on "Ralph Albert & Sydney" is far more exciting for me. Listening to the Yamaha conveys nothing of what sound a 'classic' guitar produces, it has all the wrong dynamics and everything is 'squished' into a neat manageable range that is easy to control but conveys no excitement whatsoever. For example, when he gives it a hard strum on "Peppers And Tomatoes" you get a hideous electronic thud as all the limiting and compression kicks in. Compare that with the joyous rattle that "Michael In The Garden" makes on Ralph, Albert & Sydney. Or can you imagine what "I Bid You Good Night" would sound like played on the Yamaha - I can ! :( All that attendant noise and rattling is what makes it all so satisfying :-)

Ralph must think so too, otherwise why doesn't he record with it and why does he still seek out classic sounding guitars and performed most of his recent tour on a vintage J-45 that whilst sounded like a classic guitar with an undersaddle pick up shoved in it at least hinted at some of the glory of a classic guitar in action. Comparing the sound on the few songs that overlap between "Ralph, Albert and Sydney" and "Travelling Man" says it all to me.

The use of the Yamaha is an attempt to iron out the gremilins and make each gig experience a more predictable affair for Ralph, ie he is going to be able to concentrate on his performance without battling all the other issues that go with trying to mic up guitar instead. The Yamaha is a tool of convenience and I think a poll would reveal that there won't be many out there that think the Yamaha actually sounds "good" - which is setting myself up potentially I know !

Haviong said that, the sound of Miss Gibson on the DVD is pretty ropey and highlights perfectly the point about sticking a pickup in a classic guitar, they should have mic'd it instead :-)

Re Lowden cutting holes in guitars, you don't need to cut holes for most pickups, Lowden are as happy to retrofit a pick up as anybody else  ???

I have to say that I agree with the anti-pickup brigade. I have an electro-acoustic, which is very useful in certain settings and sounds pretty good for that style of guitar. But I wouldn't dream of putting a pickup in either my old Daion or my new Taylor. Transducers, by their  nature,  produce sound from the strings vibrations rather than by the strings vibrating and amplifying naturally in the soundbox. So to my ears all piezo pickups sound rather "plastic" and brittle, lacking the complex overtones produced by the woods and construction of the actual guitar. You can mount swan neck mics inside a good acoustic without doing it any harm (by going in via the end pin) and they  can sound excellent. But they are liable to feedback problems sometimes. I still think you can't beat a good external mic, or preferably two, for a great sound.

On the subject of favourite Ralph McTell songs to play, I like Tequila Sunset (just coz it`s a pretty tune) and Maginot Waltz (superb chord sequence).

I like to have a crack at all the 3/4 stuff (my finger picking is limited to a "3 finger roll").

I've been rediscovering "Hands Of Joseph" recently, hours of fun. Joseph Spence's "Great Dreams From Heaven" has been one of my favourite playing pieces for years and years, since long before I heard Ralphy do it in fact. But I was listening to "Water Of Dreams" and thought I hadn't played "Hands Of Joseph" for a long long time and am really enjoying it :-)

God I love yamahas!

anyone else see Ralph on the Bert Jansch concert BBC4 last night?

two yamahas - my cup runneth over....!

all the best

al

THUMB PICKS
Why?  Everyone uses them, even the almighty Bert and Ralph, but I cant get used them - its not that they are uncomfortable but compared to the thum I find you have no control, they don't sit with my right hand position and they make the bass boom in an unbalanced fashion: Is there a secret I am missing.  The only good thing about them, it seems to me, is that you can use them to rake. 

Me too Curt.  I've tried for years but it still feels weird.  Anyway, thumbs are organic and picks are plastic. ;D

You use the nails on your fingers for picking but I always use the ball of my thumb rather than the nail.  Assume that's what other non-thumb pick users do, but I've never actually thought about it before.

I play a lot in dropped D and I've found that's where the pick is less flexible - doing bass runs and solos.

David

Does anyone play red and gold? I would love to play it but am not good enough to work it out and it's not in any of my books.
also am about to upgrade from my first guitar to something better- any recommendations?i know Ralph likes Yamahas so am tempted but can't find any big stockists near me and everyone I talk to seems to have a different opinion. What do you guys recommend for a real 'Ralph sound 'especially on the blues and ragtime stuff?
Cheers

I suppose Ralph has been my biggest influence. Unamplified you are best going for a classic guitar - a Martin, Gibson, or maybe even a Lowden.

However amplified is where the fun starts.
Currently I play two guitars from Yamaha cpx range - the cpx8 and the cpx15cm. Bothof them have an internal mic.  plus a piezo system.
the 8 has  a smooth creamy sound great for those low D's on 'the setting'.
The cedar top on the 15 is punchier for those ragtime things.

I send it straight through a MXR graphic eq to cut out any nonsense from the PA, through the Yamha acoustic stomp which has REALLY nice sounds aboard - nicer than Raplh's actually! and monitor through a 60watt AER combo.

well that's what I think....others may question my wisdom on these points - they usually do!

all the best

al

I play it in dropped D and drift in and out of D/Bm combinations, and there's a lot of A in it too. Start with the D and it all becomes quite simple - if you think of the dozens of Ralph toons in that tuning you can't go wrong.

Re guitars - in the past couple of years I've moved across to Taylors and now have two - a 410CE and a 712CE - both easy to play and with that rich tone pallette you get in all Taylors, and both also have the Expression sound system.  They sound very good played relatively flat through an amp.  I also have an AER60.  When it comes to controlled volume in a hard strum, however, my trusty Takamine EAN16CX is still the best, although these days it lives permanently in DADGAD.  Depends on your budget.  I've always coveted a Lowden, but have never found one at a bargain price - I buy my Taylors in the US.

David

the late Eric roche favoured Lowdens and more latterly Avalons.  i never figured out his method of amplifying.  It involved an XLR socket coming out of the side of his guitar and a jack.  I don't think I would have the nerve to spend the two grand on a Lowden and then make that sized hole in the side!

Alan Taylor sometimes sounds great.  I saw him do THE pokey Hole in Netherfield and the sound was amazing.  When he did the Fishponds at Matlock - it wasn't half as good.  I suppose ultimately that shows the wisdom of Ralph's tactic of employing a soundman who understands your specific needs and has set your sound up in a variety of venues.

it's part of  what makes a Ralph McTell ticket an excellent investment.

To be honest, it really does take practice, I've been playing guitar for more years than I care to mention & it was only a coupple of years ago I could get thumb & finger picks to meld in with either fingers or additional finger picks.

All said & done I prefer the sound unadorned fingers make a'la Knophler unless its for country music & even then a brass techpic is better still imho.

Horses for corses, go with what you are comfortable with dude  8)

Thanks al and david for your comments - I guess I'll just spend a few days in a shop playing and go for the best within the budget-I don't use amplification so maybe I'll look at some Taylors,Gibson and Martins and trust the ear!!! My favourite 'Ralph' for playing is the setting so I will maybe just listen to the base before narrowing the choice down which I believe is a Ralph tip I read somewhere. Don't think the budget will stretch to a trip to America for a Taylor or indeed a Lowden- but who knows somewhere in the future!
Will also have another bash at red and gold with your instructions -thanks
Susan
PS Is that the same Alan Taylorthat sang about Robin Hood and a sparrow(not in the same song!)- a distant memory from an older sisters record collection - always wondered where he went?!

Also keep your eyes open for Simon & Patrick & Seagull guitars, very nice tone, which generally wont break the bank.

Allan Taylor is still around and still making great music.  Charismatic and easy performer with a definitely European sensibility, do go and see him.

I've replicated most of his 70s stuff on CD and the more recent stuff is tremendous.  Try Hotels and Dreamers, his most recent.  He's become a big influence on my writing and guitar playing in the last few years.

And he swears by Martins - he spent an afternoon trying, almost successfully, to persuade me to change my allegiance to Taylors!

Lovely man.

David

Will be on the look out for Allan Taylor - have never seen him in my neck of the woods -next time you see him ask him to visit Worcestershire!!!
Meanwhile I will 'google' him!

a good idea (I think) is to go to a guitar trade show.

the best acoustic one in the midlands is acoustic avalon at Leicester race course in November.  Ralph did a gig there this year for yamaha.

there are numerous advantages.  you can talk to the top players who demonstrate the goods, and they don't pull their punches. also you can try a bigger variety than are in any shop.  also you can get the catalogues of all the top makers and browse through what their range is and then look for them coming up on e bay or try for a deal there and then.  I believe there is a trade show coming up in Gateshead, or somwhere in the north east - google guitar trade shows - keep an eye out in magazines like acoustic guitar.

if you get a deal at travel lodge or some such, you could save that much on the deal you get from the guitar company over a local shop.

anyway its a suggestion.

I go to Music Live at the NEC every year, also in November.  Again you get demo players, but the emphasis if anything is on electric guitars.  However, some of the big manufacturers like Taylor, Takamine and Yamaha usually exhibit, and last year for the first time Martin were there under their own steam, and I managed to play a few in the acoustic rooms that they reserve.  Heavy discounting is available too if you buy at the show. 

I keep saying I'll get to Leicester, but the shows are only a week apart and the NEC has become a traditional boys' treat.

However, a good day out if nothing else.

Good advice - thanks
Have been to the NEC one a few years ago - sister lives 'up north' so may check out the gateshead one.

The Music Live event at the NEC also caters for Drums, classical, woodwind, & brass these days, not to mention Drums & DJ equipment etc. Oh & all sorts of PC related music stuff.

Their are some good acoustic stands, but really the amount of din going on its difficult enough trying to demo an electric guitar or bass let alone an acoustic. The 2005 show was extremely disapointing with many major players like Marshall not even bothering to attend, but its always worth a visit just for the atmosphere & the live music through out the weekend.

Got to see Jerry Donahue in 2005 again, which was worth my entry fee alone.

You're right about the racket, Taliesin, but if you show that you know about guitars and can play a bit, they'll usually let you into their quiet room. I've played Lowdens, Martins and Taylors to my heart's content over the years.

And I agree - Jerry Donahue was worth the price of admission on his own.

David

I may know my onions, on some product knowledge etc,  but as an acoustic guitarist I'm really only passable. Having said that a mate of mine has always said I'm a very good acoustic guitarist, though really Its my feel & sense of rhythm which are my strengths with most instruments tbh.

Generally I can't afford Lowdens, Martins & Taylores (even though I now own a Taylor), so I wouldn't presume to try an instrument that expensive out unless I was quite keen to buy & I enjoy gassing out on new guitars, basses etc.

I'm quite concious about trying not to unduly waste their time on the stands.

I know what you mean.  I don't timewaste as such - I test the guitar and buy it on my next trip to the states, so the cash ends up in BobTaylor's pocket one way or another. What Taylor do you have?  I have a 410CE and a 712CE.

David

David

You know I can't remember, which model number it is. Its not overly expensive for one of theirs, I just liked the feel of it & the price.

Though my local emporium keeps trying to tempt me with equally as lovely instruments.

Hi,

At Christmas I wsnt out searching for a really good guitar . I tried Martins, taylors and new style Gibsons and even a Fylde. I ended up purchasing an Avalon.,

Another good one I tried after getting my Taylor...

Yep really nice  8)

Oooops hadn't finished....... The Avalon is a fantastic professional guitar (as played by Eric Roche- with great base response (for all those Ralph base lines) and fanstastic mid range and treble. It has a cedar top -realy mellow sound and fantastic volume.

Try one out asap! You will be amazed

Regards, Martin K

I got a lovely Taylor at the last Acoustic avalon show. It was massively reduced compared to list rpices, although still an expenisive buy compared to my pocket. But I don't regret it. It's a special edition 310 - LE made out of curly maple. It has matured and mellowed in sound amazingly quickly and has a very clear and rich tone.

Susan

Allan's website - www.allantaylor.com

Quid pro quo, errm, why "Ferret Lady"?????????

David

David
Why Ferret Lady - it's quite a long( and probably very boring) story ....and obviously nothing to do with guitars!(although my hubbie does say that I can fit ferrets into every topic of conversation so there must be a link somewhere!) Well since you ask...
I inherited some pet ferrets from my son who had become disinterested in them as kids tend to with pets and was in the vets waiting room one day when the receptionist called 'who's next?'There was a unanimous call of 'the ferret lady' -obviously they wanted me out of the room first(could have been something to do with my fragrent furry friends!) I'd coveted many a name in my time but never this one - it seemed only one step removed from 'bag lady'  - and not really in keeping with the image I would like for myself!! Anyway I've told the story enough times for it to have become a nickname and as I am very fond of my ferrets(they make gorgeous pets) it's grown on me!
Asleep yet?!!!

Thanks for the Allan Taylor website - I can see I've got some catching up to do - the album I remember was his first!!

anybody know about any other guitar trade shows - I wouldn't mind going to a few more.

hello everybody
can anyone out there help me with the tab for "the mermaid and the seagull". i've believe it's built around D with dropped D tuning but have got stuck and need a bit of help
thanks
jb

Evenin' jb.  Welcome.

The songbook says this about Mermaid at the beginning of it: "Tune bass string to D, then capo 1st fret."  It's not tabbed as such but shows the chords above the melody.  IM me if you want further info. ;) :-X ;)

Now then, tell us a bit more about yourself and stay and join in the general chaos here!

Maj
Moderator

maj
which songbook are you refering to as i thought i had them all ?
jb

This one:

[attachment deleted by admin]

maj
you asked about me
i saw ralph on tv back in the 70's i think it was ogwt. i was 13 at the time and thought wow i want to play like that. i saved up £20 from a saturday job and brought my first guitar. i have been practising ever since and still have a long way to go
my guitar has improved to a rather nice lowden though.
your songbook reply went straight over my head and i've never used IM can you send more onfo over this message board
jb



Edit: MAJ says: jb, have a wander round the new members section and About This Board etc.  You will not see IM buttons as you are classed an Anonymous member at present (due to your ISP).  Sorry I had forgotten about that.

another song i'd love the tab for is "the chairman and the little man" if anyone can help me i'd be very greatfull
jb

Can't help with this one I'm afraid.... :-\

This might help a little. As you say drop the bass to D and "play around with the following chords up on the fifth fret (i've put some chord shapes at the bottom of this thread hope you can see them.). Follow on with an Emin and A7th etc.. The D with the falling bass line works well, and Ralph uses something similar in UP. there is also a sequence where only the first string is played on fret 2 3 5 7 and 9.

Hope this makes sense, as I'm working from memory ?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/songs2play/mands1.gif)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/songs2play/mands2.gif)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/songs2play/mands3.gif)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/songs2play/mands4.gif)

I'll have a scout out for Chairman and The Little Man, and see what I've got, but I'm sure someone in here has the chords somewhere.

I have been playing around with "Mermaid And The Seagull" the last week or two - can't think why  ;) If I get chance in the next week or so I'll tab it out and post it, Leighton's help is good, certainly for the first bit  :) I have been playing around with "River Rising" too and have got it all except the run around the "and you and I" bit so if anyone knows, gimme the info  ;D

thanks for all your help, what a friendly bunch you are

maj
i must have a gap in my collection i don't have the book you mention, whats it called and where can i get it?
jb

Hi, jb.  John B here!  It's just called "Ralph McTell" and was published in 1972.  The cover photo is from "You Well-Meaning Brought Me Here".  It crops up on eBay from time to time.  If you find one and it has my name on the cover, please let me know...!!

Happy hunting - and playing.

I think Chairman and the Little man is something like...................but would accept any additions/removals.  :'(

(A) -(E) -(A) -(E) -(A) -(E) -(A) -(E) -

(A)Little man (E)work in the (A)rice fields (E)
Got a (A)brother in the (E)facto(F#)ry
(A)Called the Chairman on the (F)telephone line
(A)Invited him around for (D)tea,
For (G)tea, for (E)tea, for (A)tea, he in(D)vited him a(E)round for (A)tea. (E)- (A)

Is there anywhere that does finger transplants?  Mine aren't long enough!

Tried "Factory Girl" again yesterday, after hearing him play it at Southport - and remembered why I'd given it up originally!

I just can't reach that Em11 chord after the D at the start.

022005 ...it's that "5" that hurts!

I have also been playing Factory girl of late having abandoned it a year or so ago with the same problem.....BUT I can do it now so just keep on trying...and I've got girly hands so you've got no excuse! While I was playing it I also discovered a bit of Cat Stevens 'Moonshadow' creeping in -so I can now do a nice little intro on that!

You can do some finger exercises to get you into those stretches - I started learning classical guitar about a year ago and I'm sure it has helped with the fingering. If you are really serious try looking for a book on ebay called Playing Solo Guitar by Frederick Node .A friend gave me a copy from her attic and whilst not using it as a bible it has been a great help.
If you just want the exercises get back to me -should be great fun trying to describe those by email!

For anyone interested there is a copy of Songs for Six Strings Guitar music on ebay at the moment- and it's signed! Shame on you if the seller is reading this!!

having discovered fom maj that there's a gap in my songbook collection, can anyone give a definitive list of whats been printed in the past and whats available now.

jb

Shame on him indeed, but if you look at it another way......................

Just imagine, if you will, someone who has been a fan of a musician for 30 odd years. How can he help the musician to sell his items ? He buys from the musicians official website, or maybe at a concert, so the musician gets the money directly. He sells them on ebay, which has, I believe, over a hundred million people looking at it, worldwide. Hopefully a fan or someone new to the musican's music will buy it, and become more interested in the musicians music, even buy CDs, even go and see him in concert, maybe tell his friends about the music. Sometimes he makes a profit. Sometimes he doesn't. The money he gets back buys something else from the musicians site. He then puts it on ebay, which has, I believe, over a hundred million people looking at it, worldwide.

He has a special copy of the book, along with all the cds, a DVD, a video, Albums, casettes, sometimes more than one of each, he keeps them for himself, ones that the musician has signed for him personally, when he went to see the musician in concert, on more than one occasion. I would guess that it would be a cold day in hell if you ever saw them on ebay.

He thinks he is helping the musician. He could be wrong because sometimes he does things without thinking.

Shame on him indeed.

Leighton
(aka songs2play)

I just love your logic Leighton!  Are you on commission yet?  ;D


All the copies are signed.  I should imagine that Leighton's "special" signed copy is under lock and key.  When I have got Ralph to 'personalise' things (already signed or otherwise) they go in the safe.  Well, my study actually, but it's a bit of a McGrotto of McGoodies now.  Every single, LP, CD, DVD, video, book, tab book that I can lay my hands on is there.  There are very few gaps.  Oh, and did I mention the 14 ring binders full of info and over 3,000 pictures.

One of the gaps is a guitarist's thing, to bring myself back on topic... ish. :P  I am missing the Kicking Mule issue of Easy - the tablature book.  It has only appeared once on ebay since I have been seriously buying and that was snapped up by a non-guitarist! >:( 


Maj McSleuth

I'm a great believer in "If you can't play the note, leave it out, and save it for another day".

02X005 - or is that cheating ?  ;)

Hmmm.  I'll let you know at the Seven Stars tonight! Fortunately, no-one else there will notice any "cheating", so if I just make sure my guitar is facing away from you.... 8)

Is it cheating to play something else if you can't manage the original?  Nah, just play something you can get your fingers round and call it your own personalised version.  I've got loads of them, That'll Do Babe, Blind Blakes Rag etc. etc.

Sounds a lot more impressive if you play 'your' version of something, rather than make mistakes on a direct copy.
 8)   

I'm right behind on you this !!  ;D

Maj, gap in your collection about to be plugged - I have it, a bit dog-eared and cover-stained, it came all the way from Oz so the stains are most likely Fosters and/or some barbecue remnants ( a dripping of cooked Kangeroo steak fat perhaps )  but its in one piece  ;D Like all Kicking Mule tabs of the era its in black and white and ring bound.

IM with a snail mail address and its yours by postie  ;D

Still waiting to get time to tab "Mermaid And The Seagull", whoever asked for it, been busy with work, kids, etc , but I will do it ::)

My preferred "cheat" on Factory Girl is to tune down a tone ( a la Yesterday) and then capo at 2 (or as necessary to match the recorded key) to reduce the stretch.

If i feel bad about this,  then I go on to do the "inverted thumb" rigmarole on Please Don't Haunt Me and I feel virtuous again. Have you ever seen anyone but Ralph attempt this on stage ? I first saw him do it at the Purcell Rooms for what became the Travelling Man cd.

Baggy

Al !!!  Is that armour you are wearing upon that white steed you are riding?  I think SO.  I do, I do, I do.  ;D :-* ;D

Maj McHappy

Ralph McTell - 1972 - 'YWM' pic on cover - songs from 8FAS, SS, MSOYW and YWMBMH.

Easy - KM - USA - songs from Easy

Streets...  1975 - 'Streets...' pic on cover - songs from NTT, Easy and Streets...

The Guitar and Songs of Ralph McTell - 1984 - wide selection.

Alphabet Zoo - 1984 - piano arrangements.

Blue Skies Black Heroes - tab by Roger Brown plus MIDI files on floppy disk.

Stealin' Back - ditto.

Songs for Six Strings - 2002 - tab by Roger Brown - as definitive as it gets.

See Ralph's web shop (http://www.ralphmctell.co.uk/catalog/index.php?cPath=24) for current availability.  Otherwise keep looking at eBay.

MAJ says: I've removed the ? for Alpabet Zoo.  It was indeed 1984.

Whenever I can figure out how to get this steed to stop and the visa on my armour to open, I shall stop at yonder post office and despatcheth it ( how Shakespaherian  ;D )

 ;D

Yes me, probably  ;D

needed to complete collection

anyone out there have a spare copy or know where i  might find one of these other than ebay

Ralph McTell - 1972 -tab book 'YWM' pic on cover - songs from 8FAS, SS, MSOYW and YWMBMH.

jb

al
it was me who needed help with mermaid, in particular the intro and first section somewhere around frets 5 and 7 any help you can give would be appreciated

jb

Hi, yes, I should be able to find time this weekend, it wont take long :-) R u ok with all the other bits or is it just the beginning ?
 The book you are missing isn't a tab book, unfortunately, but t least the chords are accurate for once. I only got my copy in the last year or so off Ebay, they keep cropping up so keep a look out for one.

No.  Ebay is the only place I have seen it in the last few years.  So keep a watch there.

The inverted thumb ?!??!  ??? ::) :o

Ahmmm, would anyone care to explain that one ?


Henrik -  Now even more puzzled than Maj & Ralph put together ....  ::) ;D :P

When Ralph plays this on stage, you can see that he uses his left thumb, as well as all four fingers on the frets on the front of the neck - I can't explain any better than that - I'll leave it to a guitarist to give you a more technical explaination!  ;D


When we saw him perform this song a couple of years ago, he explained about this difficult manouver in some detail - in a very self-deprecating manner, naturally! Apparently he used to think it was 'flash' and couldn't work out why it was necessary - until he wrote 'You Haunt Me Babe'  !

Now over to you guitarists... ;)


Naomi

Ah, thank you, Naomi.

I do know that one and use it myself - it was the confusing description that fooled me.
It also works very well in Hands of Joseph in the long descending baseline - a B on the A-string
+ sometimes an F# on the E string ( when not in dropped-D, an E when in dropped D ).

It took me almost forver to get that one just "right" and smooth.
So now I "only" need to figure out the very fast base licks - with slides, pulls and hammers - in the Travelling Man version.
I've been listening and wondering a lot but I still can't figure it out.
Does anyone here have any ideas on how to solve this complete mystery ?  ::)
 

Henrik 

Here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RALPH-McTELL-Songbook-70-s_W0QQitemZ7415297771QQcategoryZ31211QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Good luck  :D

Of course every guitarist, with an ounce of creativity in his or her soul, plays it different from the original.

Come to that, Ralph doesn't sound much like Blind Boy Fuller.  He has that English thing that Lonnie Donnegan added to Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie songs - that slightly amphetamine feel.  I think as English people we respond to it quite naturally. 

To me, Ralph sounds better than Blind Boy Fuller.

john b

thanks for heads up re the songbook on ebay. i was winning with 30 secs to got  pipped at the post
i'll lkeep looking

jb :-[

The "inverted thumb" thing is not what you seem to think, (I think.)
I saw him explain and then perform "Don't Haunt Me" once.
The point was that he used his left thumb from the front of the guitar, i.e. not curling it around the neck, but using the side of his thumb. This means that he wasn't actually gripping the guitar at all.
It's hard to explain because, when I got home from that gig, I tried it myself, and though I played it exactly as Ralph had just done, I still found it easier to stretch my thumb round from the back.

Apologies if I've confused everyone.

I have to correct myself having just messed about with it for a while.
It's  actually easier (I find) to use your little finger (not your thumb at all,) instead of the inverted thumb that Ralph prefers.

I'm afraid I started the debate with my loose use of language about the "inverted thumb rigmarole" on "Please Don't Haunt Me"....it was late !

I did mean that Ralph swings his thumb (as demonstrated at the Purcell Room) from the standard position behind the neck of the guitar underneath the neck of the guitar, and uses it to fret the third fret bass note with his thumb from the front of the guitar while playing the treble notes at the 7th/8th fret (I'm working from memory ,  so maybe it is even higher ??).

This bizarre fingerwork does enable a lower bass run to be completed  - he's already using a dropped D bass string - and i suspect any other way of completing this would need wrist surgery.  

It does work - the key is to use the other fingers as the "anchor" at the higher frets , thereby supporting the thumb as it swings through - hence "inverting" the normal role and position of the thumb.

Having mastered this , the real problem is that I haven't found another song to use it on. Any suggestions ??  

You're exactly right.
Kindly disregard my last post.
 ::)

Ah, I seeeee !!!!! - Thank you both for setting me straight on this one - I have never seen him perform
this song you see, so it all sounded very confusing to me.

And here I was thinking that I had been clever working out "my" little tircks and cheats  ::)
What an amzing style to come up with - so did Ralph invent this one himself or was it one
of his many heroes ?

I once saw Don McLean doing what he called "overhand guitar" - .ie grabbing the fret board
from above ! - thumb side of his hand facing himself. As I recall this worked excellently and
sounded great too. Guess it must almost be like starting all over to learn how to play like that.

Another guy who does this peculiar style of playing is the blind rock guitarist Jeff Healy.
Sounds brilliant when he does it -  check out his version of "While My Guitar Gently Wheeps" for instance.
Hmmm, what is is about blind guys and guitars anyway ?  ::) ;)


Henrik

PS. Did any of you people by any chance figure out the very fast base licks in Hands of Joseph ?  ( Travelling Man version )
If so, I would very much like a few hints, as I am getting "really" close now - apart from those  8)


Wa

Some classical guitarists use this technique to play cello pieces (apparently cello players have always done it  ???)

I don't think it's quite the same thing, but Richie Havens always used his thumb from the top of the guitar to play barre chords when he was in open tuning.  He had a VERY big thumb!

hi everyone
a little while ago i asked if anyone out there could help me with the tab for the mermaid and the seagull in particular the intro.
I've been a bit busy with other stuff lately and haven't played a great deal but would i am going on holiday to cornwall soon and thought this would be a good time to learn this tune

help please

jb

Hello jb
Have never played it myself but have the music in one of my books so will try and help -here goes.
First ,tune bass E down to D
The chords sound awful but all are just a couple of fingers!
Its in 4/4 time
First two bars(ie listening....talk) is Eb  Eb6 Eb
next two (smoke...ceiling)  Eb6 Eb Ebsus2
then(words ....by) same as first 2 bars
then (maybe.....feeling)   Eb6 Ebsus2 Eb

Get back to me if you need help with those chords -Iwill attempt a description of the chord diagrams. They will be much easier to play than describe so I'm hoping you're OK with it or you won't get them before your holiday!!


Next bit...
Looking ...glass is Fm(add9)/C bass -  ie A string at fret2 Dstring at fret4
a quick Bb in between glass and I
Fm for I  noticed  Fm6 on clock Fm7 on ten
minutes is a' one finger job' top E string at fret5 and open A string
fast is as before but E string at fret4

Then on beer itsEb(D shape but up a fret)
gone Ebsus2/Db bass ie take finger off top E string to leave it open and add a Db onA string(fret3)
money Ab6/C bass spent Ab6/Cbbass
think Eb about Ebsus2 time same as before with Db bass
a quickAb6/Cbass in betweentime and that
that Bb  went Eb.

And that's it - or at least all your getting now as I think I've burnt the spaghetti!!!
Hope this helps