TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Now that Cropredy 06 plans are underway - can I put in a plea. . .

Could there be a big screen above or beside the stage? The sound was fantastic this year and being able to see the acts from more than half way back would put the icing on the cake.

Oh.  :-\ I don't suppose you'd consider taking binoculars, instead, would you?



(this is not a drug reference)



( ;D ;D ;D ;D)

Not quite the same thing! A big screen can make the field feel really intimate.

(PS I tried taking binoculars once, but I just couldn't swallow them).

This topic was covered last year, and the killer response was that the screen would cost so much it would need to be sponsored, and we all know what more corporate sponsorship would do to Cropredy  :(

More corporate sponsorship? I wasn't aware there was any (other than Wadworths).

Exactly.

Proper beer I can live with.

Cropredy sponsored by Pepsi and Burger King  :o

Imagine a wlk through McDonalds in the field....

...on the other hand, I'd rather not imagine, as I'd end up coming out with half a dozen quarter pounders with cheese.

Taliesin :o wash your mouth out this instant young man!!!!!
Cropredy doesn't need McDonaldisation or Coca Colanisation   or the Colonal or BK   just extra supplies of 6X ;) ;)

The big screen idea is a good one, but not at the expense of Cropredy's integrity. Are there any wealthy (non-corporate) benefactors in the house? ;D

Mic

Alternatively, leave the deck chair for half an hour and walk down the front....

... it's not that far

I did some research earlier in the year, a big screen on the back of the sound tower including rigging, labour etc for the weekend came in at approx. £20k.  £1.50 extra per ticket would easily cover it.

.........then it would rain the the big umbrellas would get in the way of the screen  ::) :D

Oh no  :-X  They've not booked rain again for next year have they JJ  ???

Sounds like a very small ticket price increase for a huge additional benefit!

Plus you could record the camera feed(s), which would offer possibilities... if not a full-on DVD release (the camera coverage wouldn't be extensive enough), then video footage of selected songs could be included on any subsequent live CD release.

It's far too glib to suggest that everyone who wants a better view should just go to the front. It's just not practical for more than a few hundred of the thousands of people who turn up, and I'm sure all of those thousands would like the option of a better view if one were available. There are probably many people who'd love to go down to the front for a better view, but can't, for many different reasons... if £1.50 extra per ticket means that they get an even better Cropredy experience, it would seem crazy not to give it very serious consideration for 2006.

And how much would all the cameramen (can you say that?) cost for 3 days to make the DVD of a saleable quality, and how annoying would they be to the rest of the audience and photographers, unless there was a remote camera rig which would need someone to operate it?

Sorry, this isn't the Milton Keynes Bowl, it's a cow field and if you want to see the artistes I like the idea of people having to go to the front - it's real.

I know these things are personal but I don't feel screens make shows more personal, in fact rather the reverse because, of course, you end up watching every little thing on the screen, your view is controlled by camera people and when the act is over you are left with the feeling that you've just watched a giant video or T.V. programme.  You lose the live music feel; Im with Nuthouse - join us down the front!!

Glib glib glib glib glib

Oh! Too glib for you? Sorry.

Hmmm. I could have sworn I said "...not a full-on DVD release (the camera coverage wouldn't be extensive enough)".

Let's go and look...

Wow! So I did!  ::)

But even a single camera would open up the option of providing video clips on any CD release of the festival (for example).


Equally real is the impracticality or impossibility - for a multitude of different reasons - of getting to the front for many of the 16,000-odd people who turn up to Cropredy. Just because you and I can doesn't mean that everybody else who wants to can, does it?

The majority in that field will always have a poor view of the stage. If less than two quid extra per ticket means that people rear of the sound tower (i.e. most people in the field) suddenly get a massively improved view, why should they be denied that?

You could get 16,000 people at the front if everyone squeezed up.

Indeed.  The front is not a child or frail or disabled person friendly place to be.
If you want to and can be at the front, that's great, if you can't an alternative view could be welcome.
As for cameras anything from an unmanned static one on the tower giving a full view of the stage (cheap) to one on the tower, two on the stage and one wandering around the crowd (not so cheap) could be accomodated.

Screen or no screen, I'll still be down the front for the likes of FC though, as long as I am physically able  ;D

The BIG screen debate raises it's ugly head once again, it must be getting close to Cris......  ooops! I almost swore then.
I would like to add my NO vote, for me it would detract from the whole ambiance of Cropredy. If Cropredy is blessed with glorious sunshine, a BIG screen would be next to useless, in normal daylight hours, images would be poor and barely visable, then in the two and a bit hours of darkness each evening, a screen would completely dominate the field and distract from the stage.
Most folks are happy to sit back, relax and listen to the music from their chosen vantage points.  Many Cropredy Festival attendees lay out their groundsheet's and blankets in the concert arena from quite early each morning, it's interesting to note the vast majority chose to set up, way back towards the top of the field, very few feel the need to be close to the stage for the whole day.
If you want to get close to the artists, just make your way to the bar.

PS. Who in their right mind would want to see David Hughes close up,.................. apart from Anji.  {:-)

There's an idea, anyone know how to set up a poll ?

I think you're right, Martin! Aaaargh!

(http://www.recognised.org.uk/Cropredy1.jpg)

Not if you got the right sort of screen. Whether the quote of 20K covered that sort of screen, I don't know.


Not if it was placed in the obvious position - behind the sound tower.
 

How do you know they wouldn't appreciate a better view of the performers if it were possible to provide one (which it is)?


Again, a bit glib, and missing the point too.

It did.  All modern outdoor screens are perfectly visible in bright sunlight.

I also think the back of the sound tower would be the best place by far.

From the number of members posting in this thread, there doesn't appear to be that much support for it...

Danny, I respect your views, I just happen to disagree with the idea of installing a BIG screen, it's called debate.
The light hearted comment I made, about seeing your favourite artist at the bar was made tongue in cheek. Some would see the humour and get the joke, some wouldn't.  

Or it could be that what they feel has been covered by posts already?
For what it's worth (not a lot) I think a screen behind the sound tower is a great idea....and wouldn't spoil the ambience for those to the front of the sound tower; but would give a better view to those who 'can't' stand at the front.
I also understand if it is deemed to be an extra cost that can't, practically, be met.

Mic

That was meant as a 'backhanded' way of encouraging others to join in....

Ahhh I see....psychology ^-^

Maybe a zappier title?......like     Big Screen: The Debate!!!!

got me coat :D :D
Mic

No please don't do it. I love it as it is..............

Gower Flower

The number of people that turn up year after year is testimony to the basics being right.

Last year there was a platform for disabled use just in front of the sound tower that gave an excellent view.

I think a great big telly would spoil the whole rustic quality of the event. I've never had difficulty (mind you I usually follow APPotP, a forced to be reckoned with) in getting right to the front.

Personally I find gawkin at bands a bit samey.... and get bored after a while... I can hear the output which is why i go anywhere.

btw Martin... in full agreement about Hughes.. now if he started restin his foot on a monitor, did a duck walk or got himself a proper guitar like a flying V, I might..... meanwhile I'll just listen... it's worth it!

Puggzzz

The disabled platform was a great idea and would have made a great view for a disabled person and one carer!  (Poss me  ;) )Except my severely disabled friend who comes to Cropredy every year with us refused to use this facility with me (cos I wanted to share the good view with him  ::)) because he kept telling me that "I am not disabled"!!! LOL (Being disabled is all in the mind to him!!)  - Thought I would share this view with you all cos it has made me laugh ever since Cropredy, he also insists on coming down the front with us to see Fairport but he is just as happy sitting back, relaxing and listening to all the great music.

What has this got to do with the big screen idea? Well just to say he probably wouldn't even look at it!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ok - There's a poll as someone has requested it. Fairport are obviously not bound by the outcome  as we represent a very small number of those whose attend.

Why not have a compromise and have half a big screen? :-X

I understand how you feel, Flower, but I suspect that once it was there, people would say "What a fantastic idea that was!" It's a good job we didn't say the same about the sound system - which has improved immeasurably over the years.

Hey, what about a broadcast uplink, with mini LCD screens handed out to people at the back of the field.  ;D

If you ever seen one of those screens at railway stations with BBC News 24 on them, turn with your back to it and see if you can sense the movement on the screen. You may be surprised how much it affects the surroundings.

A screen on the back of the sound tower would light up much of the field in the evening, which would change the feel of the festival considerably. There's nothing quite like stumbling up to the toilets tripping over chairs as you go.

Think of the moths it would attract ;D

OOOhh goody I love moths.. so many beautiful varieties...

OK.. I'll flutter off now!!

Oh my God no!!!!! That's it no more Cropredy for me if a big screen comes

I hate moths

OR.... wait for it ......  [;-) erect a huge screen horizontally, then in the unlikely event of a few drops of rain , we could all take shelter underneath it.................................. That's it, a roof over the field. _________ I surprise myself sometimes. [;-)..........ooops ! sorry if I'm being glib again :-X

Stop being glib, everybody. There's far too much glibness in this topic! Stop it.

You are quite right the last thing that field needs is a McD*****s  Not sure about the 6x either, much prefer Theakstons, always have.

I love the idea of a big screen too, especiall for when I'm walking around the stalls searching for a bargain, or a new instrument.

or indeed standing in the queue for the Portaloo with legs firmly crossed :-\ :-\

Mic

Why, O Cocker the Wise? Lest we be hanged on the glibbertygibbet?   :o :-\ :o

I voted no. It's about the character of the festival. OK, this might not count but please vote no anyway..... because then it might count. I always make sense at this time of night.

However, I suspect I would be one pf the people who would say "Flip me for a game of twirlybob! This big screen is fuckking awful".

Yours, completely bereft of glib......

When I want a great view of the band I'll go to a small venue on the wintour.

When I want to hear fine music filling a great natural amphitheatre, take in the stars, the flags and and the buzz I'll go to Croppers.
Just not about the view for me (though I do wander down to the front too).
But that's just me.

Dr Monk

That was sheer poetry  ;D

As I sip my tomato and lentil soup I am imagining the scene now - fluttering flags, smiling Folk folk, top music....thanks you  [;-)

Nuthouse (pretending the soup was from Leon's)  ;)

Oddly, I feel that a big screen might possibly detract from the intimacy and the overall feel of the gathering of the faithfull in a field. Cropredy is just an overgrown gig in a field (alright, a very special overgrown gig in a field!), and a big screen might start to make it feel like just another big Hyde Park do etc.

Joss

prefer Cropredy as it is. :)

Um yes, that's what I meant to say.  :)

A big screen should only be used for deciding whether a try has been scored or a batsman run out!

Brought to you by the letters G & L and the numbers 1 & 8  ;)
Dunc

The other thing (or is it one of the other things) that hasn't been mentioned yet is that to site a big scrren half way back in the field, keeping the sound towers where they are, would cause a loss of synch between sound and pictures.


Now that is REALLY distracting.


Cropredy is fine as it is, why try and gild a pig?



 

That has to be the most annoying use & way of using a big screen at any sort of event.

I voted no and was pondering for ages wheter or not to post my reasons, however, the good Dr Monk has summed up my thoughts entirely.  Well put Physic.

That is an extremely good point!.....
The screen would have to be inline with the speaker towers to stay in sync...

Hence dictating how big the big screens would need to be in order to be seen to be big...

..If that's not too convelouted a reply

That's true.

Is there a delay line between the stage and the sound tower speakers? I presume there must be.

Paul

There must be, fractionally.

Copious amounts of 6X librally applied would even out any lag in sound.  I voted the "not bothered either way" way.

I have only been to the last two Cropreddys so far, so don't feel that I could vote any other way, as I do not have the history of sitting in the field in the early days.  Surprised they had electricity in those days ;D

Mark

I was previously in favour of a big screen, however the more I read about it on here & the more I think about it. A simple portable telly at the loos would be all that would be needed...lol (humour...sort of)

Certainly at Cropredy 2002-ish they were experimenting with a delay between the two - it was really annoying if you were a bit betwixt and between though as you got a bit of both (live & delayed), like when there's two TVs on in the house, with the same channel on but one terrestial/one Sky.

(Apologies for the longest sentence in the world...ever, just passing  :))

Oi! Barry and Chris! Get back to school this minute!

It wouldn't matter where you put the screen. Pics travel at the speed of light which is fast enough to be instantaneous* . Sound travels at the speed of, erm, sound which is a lot slower. If the source of the sound is far away you will get a delay in hearing it. You wouldn't notice any delay in the picture though regardless of how far away it is.

(* as far as people in a field are concerned. Anyone who mentions stellar distances, astrophysics, etc will be pronounced off-topic and called a pedant!)

Having said that, electronics can cause a delay which can change the relationship between sound and vision. This can be worked to advantage. What you need to do is think about who is looking at the screen (i.e. the people at the back) and put a bit of artificial delay in the image so that what is shown is in time with what the majority of viewers are hearing. They do this on the main stage at Glastonbury so when you look at a screen from the back of the field it is roughly in time with the music - at least, not badly out of time. If you look at a screen from the front of the field it appears delayed compared to the stage.

Cheers

Nick (who thinks big screens at festivals are the equivalent of giant TVs in bars)

Thats fair enough coming from someone who's twelve foot nine inches tall but for short arses like myself i'd love a big screen.

shouldn't that be short arse screen..
soz, just couldn't resist ;D

But the distance from the back to the stage is relatively short. Hence anyone not directly behind the screen (with a view past the screen to the stage) will get a very strange aparition....the screen out of time with the stage, but in time with what they're listening to....

But the 6X will cancel that out, surely   :D

True but only when the screen is showing the whole stage, when the light show is out of sync. If the screen doesn't show the whole stage you don't notice the screen-stage sync-ness so much. You're going to get a delay at the back of the arena - that's inevitable - but from the back you can't see much detail of the stage so the timing of what you see of the stage doesn't matter so much. The screen shows close-ups where you can see things like strumming and bowing where the sync with the sound is more important.

Cheers

Nick

Gawd luv us, glad I am not a scientist. ;D

I think I'm with Nuts on this one.

I had a splendid view from the bar

and if I wanted to close (Kate Bush for 2006) I could walk down the front

or you could walk straight down the middle.......................

only in my dreams anji

Finally got round to putting my bit into this, by consulting the family. We're all in agreement that a screen would spoil the atmosphere and character. What I find particularly pleasing is that the children, whose expectations are far more technological agree. but then they've never missed a Cropredy all their lives, so maybe the ethos is now well established in them. So with the agreement of the family, my vote is going to the no camp.

Robin

Phew!!!!!  Been out of touch for a while but luckily back here before closing date!!!!

Must agree with Dr M, its the whole ambience that is so great.  Far more relaxing to just be there and wander down for a quick'viewing'.

OOooo K,  seems pretty decisive.  I promise I won't mention it again   :-X

Now, how about a bar in each corner of the field as well as the main one on the left  ???   ;)

What a good idea - with each bar from a different brewery (OK, that won't happen but I can dream)  :-\

You would still need directions though, GoatBoy  :-X

GoatBoy Cropredy Survival Secret #1 :

'Go to bar, buy beer, drink beer, dance, rinse, repeat'  [;-)

...and don't get a gout attack  ::)

Again - cost. Who is going to pay for the double amount of staff?....

A bit of a spurious argument, I think. Since the bar manages to sell out its beer, there's obviously a demand that outstrips supply. I'm sure that staff can be found to help generate more profits.

Not at all - you'll sell a negligable extra amount of beer, for a higher cost basically, including staff (who do get paid!) and materials (lots of wood, etc...)

"negligable"? Oh, ok. You're absolutely right.

The idea of having more than one bar is seriously flawed in my view.
How often do you hear the parting words of a relaxed and possibly confused Cropredy goer say to his or her partner, or friend. "I'm just going for a tiddle, see you at the bar in five minutes"
Try to imagine the utter confusion and the extent of the extra work load that would be thrust upon the already overstretched lost persons dept.at the festival.
Imagine the pathetic scene, " Which bar did he/she say, was it bar 5 in two minutes, or was it bar 2 in five minutes." I think by now you get my drift.
It is my view that one bar is enough, in fact in the past, one bar has proved to be more than enough for some..........

There are already two bars  :-\

There's the main one and there's a little one at the end of the ticket queue by the entrance [;-)

Cheers

Nick

I reckon two bars is plenty..I mean, you can always get a drink and pretty swiftly too. I am against big screens, extra bars and anything else newfangled. Blimey, they'll be after astroturf next!  :D

This one ?

[attachment deleted by admin]

That's done it  ::)
I'm now sat here with a bottle of 6X Speckled Hen with Capers on full tilt grinning like it's next August already  ;D

The one they kindly put next to my tent - I thought it was a personal favour.  ;)

Do you mean negligugble? Glug a lug and all that...

Bet this gets taken off too....ta, mods.

Would be interesting to find out what the wider Cropredy audience thinks of the idea. 74 votes means we've canvassed the opinions of about 0.4% of the typical Cropredy gate.

Still, governments have been elected on less! ;)

Yeah, but we're great  ;D

Nicely put, Mr F.......nicely put !

But it's a good, representative 0.4%. And less than 33% thought it a good idea.

Without wishing to get too controversial - wasn't the phrasing of the vote a mite loaded, m'lud? "No thank you -  I prefer Cropredy the way it is."  Leading the witness, there, I think. A simple "Yes" "No" "Don't Know" might have provided a slightly different return.

And, yes, we are a self-selecting group on here - so not representative of the wider audience.

And I'm very glad the "I prefer Cropredy the way it is" mentality hasn't prevailed in the past - otherwise we'd be stuck with terrible loos, inadequate camping and not very good sound.

You may be right, but going back over the thread, it seems that people have thought through the issues rather than just respond to the question, so I doubt if it made much difference.

Agree with you about the loos though!

Ironically, I think exactly the opposite on all three of those.

I reckon first that the loos have actually got slightly worse over the years. I remember in the late 80s/early 90s the quality of the loos being commented on in revews in the national press. They're still streets ahead of the other major festivals though.

And with the exception of the bad weather years I also think the camping has remained pretty constant. I do remember the days when it was more of a free-for-all with parking and pitching but that was sorted out in the very early 90s. Apart from the addition of the marquee between fields 1, 2 and 3 (which was missing this year - a change for the worse) I can't think of any other change that's happened to the camping since then.

Oh, and the sound? I can recall only one year in the last 20 when the sound was not absolutely brilliant and that was 2004! Last year the sound seemed to get lost at the sides of the arena, particularly around the bar area. It was back to normal this year.

Keep Cropredy the way it is!

Contraversial? moi?

Cheers

Nick

All I'm saying, Nick, is that it's important to be striving for improvement all the time. I'm sorry, but I was at Cropredy in 79 and there is absolutely no way it was exactly the same as it is now: change happens - and quite often for the better.

Hmmm - I thought it only fair to mention what the probable outcome of putting a screen up behind the sound tower would be - and this figure was based on sensible costings, with a member of this board obtaining a quote from a supplier or two.

That way, people could vote with all the info available to them. Voting blind, without knowing that there would be a cost implication to them, could have led to accusations of bias on my part. I think it's fair.