TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

I've just bought the magazine, "NME Originals...Bob Dylan And The Folk Rock Boom, 1964-1974"
There's a reproduction of an article on Fairport Convention, just as "Unhalfbricking" was (about to be?) released, ans another on Fotheringay, just as they announced they were going their separate ways.
A lovely piece of history, and good source of information for 'catch up merchants' like me! :)

Mic

I had a qiuck read through the magazine in Tesco while my wife done the shopping (well as long as I got away with it).  I thought it looked a decent read but my Scottish nature came out and I refused to pay a criminal price (£5.99) for a magazine.  I buy "The Living Tradition" every edition and can't recomend it enough. ;)

Well the present day situation shows it as well
when you get solo artists with guitars playing ballads/love songs in vaguely Dylan-ish way
you are more likely to get interest in where it comes from / corresponds to,
therefore that may explain a bigger interest in folk than there has been for 'many a year'  :)

It could also be that people have seen through the manufactured pop **** and are coming back into the fold of real music, played by real people with real instruments.

Case in point - this James Blunt fella.  Recommended.

Now, he may or may not be exactly "folk" music, but he's a good bridge between the "mainstream" and here, wherever here is...

i worry that this is becoming the nainstream and it is a misrepresentayion...???

Well, as singer-songwriters with guitars go, he's pretty good.  I was given a "copy" of the album quite at random about a week ago having never (I swear!) heard of him before.  I listened to the whole album several times before looking him up on the internet and finding out that he's actually quite popular in the wider music world too...  Probably a bit of a one-off for the "pop" charts and his next album will almost certainly not do as well as the first because the novelty factor will have worn off (personal opinion only, and apologies to Mr Blunt), but there are some cracking songs on the album.  The single "You're Beautiful" is nowhere near the best song...

What's the problem with "folk" becoming "mainstream"?  Not an attack, groove st, a genuine question.  While we all want folk to be more popular, are we just a little afraid of the loss of sense of exclusivity and knowing something that other people dont?  I know it's been happening in the motorcycling world for years...

Interesting discussion, Anna.

Steeleye had big singles hits in the 70's with All Around My Hat and Gaudete but never became 'commercial' in the razamatazz sense. Yet in their case FC failed to sell big numbers of albums (which I think they saw as their market), probably for other reasons to which the history books allude.

I think there are two arguments -  (1) if FC can maintain financial stability by managing themselves and keeping true to folk roots by not being overtly commercial, then most of us are happy (2) If folk became 'mainstream', the defining edges would become blurred as the music-money machine would have no conscience about roots, nor would it probably have any idea what we are about, in order to be able to choose material.

I have only heard James Blunt's 'hit' but suggest he will drift into commercial obscurity as have others (e.g. that opera chap from up north, name escapes me) who have non-standard commercial appeal.  In the case of folkies, if they remain true to their roots, they can survive the odd 'hit' yet retain their appeal and support for decades. Compare with the gang of faded  one-or-very-few-hit-wonder USA blokes from the 60's (Bobby Vee etc) who appeared in my nearest town last week!

That's it for philosophy for the day. :)

M of F
 

I wouldn't say he's all that non-standard really, he's in the same vein as David Gray and he's still going strong after quite a few years as a "big" act. Not really a fan of either but I did get given a copy of James Blunt's album. Only had one listen so far and it was alright, just very, very bland. Sort of thirtysomething's dinner party music.

M of F.  Argument (2), very good.  I hadn't thought of it that way.

Think I need to change my signature line.  People here know where to find Maart by now...

Alex, dig it out & listen to "No Bravery", the last track.  I can't disagree that it's all a bit samey in some ways but he can write good lyrics.  I was trying to think of who to compare him to the other day and came up with Eagle Eye Cherry.  David Gray's a good comparison too.

My wife and daughter have both gone potty about James Blunt. Having listened to the album many times (although only put it on once meself) I can say that he's not too bad, vocals are a bit strained but good well crafted songs. Have to agree with Anna that he will probably dissapear into that limbo that exists between pop and real music. Shame because I hear that he is pretty good live and could possibly mature into a very good songwriter.

..alnong with Daniel Powter.

absolutly, him and james Blunt do make listening to commercial stations a little bit easier. All they need to do is get rid of the adverts and broaden the play list...................................long live sir terry

i have no problem with folk becoming more universally popular and commercialy successful.
but i personally dont class this as folk. its certainly more listenable than most of the charts but it wouldnt sit next to eliza carthy in MY cd rack.i'd like to see her in the top ten singles chart on a regular basis.
what worries me is the people who have got into the james blunt type stuff being of the mistaken idea that it IS folk.
(cue rotten eggs and tomatoes being thrown from the 'what is folk?' thread)
and to pick up on the david gray ref, i have lloved him from the start, have 3 albums which get played regularly but i dont class HIM as folk either, and, IMO the new boys and girls have a long way to go before they match up to him.

Maybe folk-rock has a boom every few years anyway.

Just thinking that the likes of the Levellers, Waterboys, Wonderstuff could possibly be seen as giving the genre a resurgence in the late 80s/90s in the same way that FC, Steeleye, Lindisfarne did in the late 60s/70s.

It all comes round again, as a cleverer person than me once said.

Jackdaw

but at least in the case of the levs/ waterboys/ stuffies there were fiddles and other traditionally 'folk'instruments, and they did 'cover'some old/trad songs too....

Who was that then ?

Definitely in the case of the Waterboys from 'Fisherman's Blues' til 'Room To Roam' there was a lot of folk content - so very much in the Fairport/folk-rock tradition.

I'd agree that singer-songwriter does not equal folk - there's a tendency to call anyone singing and playing an acoustic guitar "folk" but that's really the American genre of folk or folk-rock (i.e. Dylan et al) rather than the British one (i.e. music with trad elements).

I too have been reading this tome. It is very word dense with little if no revelations or new photographs but it is a good read which takes lomnger than your average magazine to read and is interesting to put it all into context.

I think the absence of new stuff is down to the fact that it's all reproductions of old articles that appeared during the Folk Boom era to which the title refers. This is why I find it really informative, because I missed out on a lot that was around then. There is often a reference on here to something that happened a 'while' ago, and because I didn't have access to a lot of it, I don't know what's being discussed (and even I don't want to show my ignorance, by asking, all the time ::))
There are bands in there that I've seen members talking about in here that I've never even heard of, so I guess it's a way, for me, of filling in just a few of those gaps, from days that can't be retrieved :)
Wish I had a time machine though, it would have been great to have been at a lot of those shows :)

Mic

hmmm

why are you so convinced people are suggesting that Blunt is Folk!!!!!

I dont think Blunt is classed as folk at all!!! never heard him being classed as folk either - by anyone, he's a singer songwriter. Would you class Elton john as folk? similar feel - different instruments.
Mik

if you go back to page 1 you'll see how this whole thing got started - it was not i who suggested he were folk.
in fact i protested quite the opposite! :o

Is John Martyn a folk/rock artist? He certainly booms.

I've been reading recently about how little he actualy wrote of the lyrics on his album isn't Guy chambers in on some of them? and that You're Beautiful  was actually written by a woman songwriter called Amanda Ghost when he was living in USA.
 Oh and his name has now entered the rhyming slang venacualr - "he aint 'alf  a right James" ;D

That aside though his music is Ok in a non threatening Radio2 Dido type of way. Can't get on with his whiny singing though :-\

Hey i posted 3 or 4 times on here yesterday? where have they all gone? is this discussion board or a fascist state?

from Rob

the not so happy man?!?

It could have been during a server glitch (hark at the not very expert ::))  I say that because the board has had a few problems recently (Colin explains in members Feedback) not that it makes any sense to me! but it might to you ::)

Rob. I can't find any posts of yours that have been deleted. You did make some posts in the'One Hit Wonders' thread. Sure you have not been a bit too *happy* in the last 24 hours ;)

Sandra

Cannot see that thread Sandy, any way Im certain it was on this thread that i posted.

Cheers from Rob

Here you go Rob :)

http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?topic=14171.0

Mic

If its not that one then I am afraid that Mix is right and they are lost in the ether :o

Sorry I can't help.

Sandra

Thanks for that Mix, my original posts were on here, but I had no idea where they had been moved to!!!!!


From Rob

For the avoidance of doubt... James Blunt? Turgid middle-class ersatz angst junk... discovered by the guy who discovered Christina Aguileira... This is the guy who warbled "You're Beautiful" isn't it? Crucifixion is too good for some people. Pile this awful MoR pap on the junk heap along with the execrable Katie Melua and Norah Jones... I don't care what people call this music to be honest, MoR, pop, jazz, folk... The term arid junk seems to cover the ground so much more adequately. And don't even get me started on Coldplay...

As tolerant as ever, I see.

Hmm? I like James Blunt, Katie Melua and as for Coldplay.........wow!!!!

Sometimes different is good ;D

Mic

tolerant and quite correct, burn em all  :)

Folk Rock makes me think of Fairport first, then Led Zep. Well, LZ IV at least  :)

As for What Is Folk Music? Isn't it the pop music of the time?

Ten years ago it was Oasis, Blur.

Nowadays Franz, Kaisers, ...

Go for it Jimbo! Rage against the dying of the light ale!

And always garbage is gabage!   >:(

But let's not talk about the Tremeloes...

Andy,

Brian Poole And The Tremeloes - 8 uk single chart hits between 1963-65
Tremeloes - 10 uk single chart hits between 1966-69

Both acts still perform regularly to this day. Not bad for garbage.......................

From Rob :)

Ahem..... putting aside the honourable gentleman's opinions (pint behind the bar for you Jack') let's get back to Folk Rock

Folk Rock or nothing ... (Silence is Golden)

folk rock boom?

is this the trad folkies version of the gunpowder plot?

i think this is all getting muddled with the 'what is folk?' thread, ie talk of james blunt et al.
i think if you wanna talk FOLK/ROCK in its true sense you HAVE to look to Zep, The Levs, Fairport(but only sometimes), Wonderstuff and NMA, to name a few. with lashings of Tull.
Without the ROCK element it is indeed just folk, which brings us full circle to 'what the hell is that anyway?'

i like it all. organise your cd's by the colour of their spines.  then noone can moan at ya!

 ;D

fast learner that groove!!

Let's not pick on the 60s revival acts - a member of this very forum is in the Fourmost, who are also still performing regularly....

What it perhaps comes down to is the old singles acts/album acts. It's two different sorts of success, on the one hand making an album which hangs together as a whole and people sit down & listen to, and on the other it's the equally impressive skill of writing/performing songs which do well in the charts, and everyone sings even years later.

I do not see anything wrong with a topic drift, I find it an entertaining read and you sometimes learn something ( but not always), and it can be frustrating responding and no reply being allowed.

From Rob :)

Are the Fourmost still playing live?  Thats one sixties band I have not seen yet, and would like to if poss.

From Rob

When I started this ( :-\ ) The title I used for the Topic was a shortened version of the magazine title, the magazine which was about Bob Dylan, and the boom in this kind of music that he 'started'?  I wasn't saying that there was a Folk Rock Boom now.
Mind you, I think there is, but that's just my opinion ;)

Mic

On a similar folk-rock/printed word theme, and in anticipation of a Book Token on Sunday, has anyone got any thoughts on either of the following:-

The British Folk Revival 1944-2002 by Michael Brocken.

Electric Folk: The Changing Face of English Traditional Music by Britta Sweers.

Thanks

Steve

i saw the fourmost at the palace theatre in manchester in summer 1964 along with sounds inc.,Billy J Kramer and the dakotas and Cilla
 hello to the bloke on this forum who is in the fourmost ,whoever you are

40 odd years on ,it must be folk music by now
 there, back on topic and no one noticed

Rob,

They are, although their gig page isn't working so I don't have any dates/venues. I think, like a lot of 60s bands, they do quite a few of the Warner theme breaks. The site is http://www.thefourmost.co.uk/ anyway.

Jim,

Blimey....that sounds like a decent bill. Our bloke is John - longtime member of the band (although not an original).

Alex
Who was far too young for any of this malarkey first time round but was pleasantly surprised by a Marty Wilde gig a few months back - went as a favour to a friend who had a spare ticket but quite enjoyed it.

errr ...... hello there

Looks like I've been outed.   I'm a long time Fairport fan but only just getting into their later stuff.  I love the muscianship, the songs, the instruments and it all seems so laid back and honest.

As Alex has said (hello Alex)  ..  The date sheet on the Fourmost site (www.thefourmost.co.uk) hasn't been updated yet...I'll be working on that asap when more info is available.  We do play at Warners and also the 60's festivals at Butlins/Pontins and other venues and do our fair share of motorway slogging also we get the occasional jaunt on the continent.  The whole 60's scene is still surprisingly very popular.. great music and memories.. and attracts all ages.  It is quite conceivable, as already stated, that the pop music of yesterday is now the folk music of today (just to get back slightly on the topic).. I haven't played at Cropredy yet though.........

JohnW,

Would love to see you in concert if poss. Any dates planned in the Yorkshire area? I have the first 2 Fourmost singles, both written by Lennon/Mccartney.  I shall have to give them a play!!!

From Rob

Of course there WAS a foilk-rock boom... It was called "The Sixties", an apparent reference to the years in which it occurred rather than the age of the participants. The folk rock boom will only occur again when the Messiah returns - Tim Buckley. Having checked the astrolabe, Wisden and Schott's Almanack, this event is not forecast as imminent. A pity.

This is, not so much drifting, as completely lost at sea.

By all means start a thread for 60's bands but we are losing touch with the Folk Rock Boom notion.

Entertaining, informative - no problem - start a thread in the approrpiate place. For the record, first single bought was The Tremeloes, and I saw the Fourmost at BBC studios in Birmingham when I was a kid so the nostalgia thing is fine - but in it's own thread.

I thank you.....

Well for once i have done as im told.

See Its Fab, its Gear, its the Sixties- Anything Sixties. in Active if any one wants to contribute

Thanks from Rob {:-) {:-)

Nuthouse adds: Good man, that Happy Man !

Mike Scott, blogging about recording the new Waterboys albums comments that he's made a compilation tape for one of the guys they're working with - "....because I rather like him I burn him a CD mix of some faves of mine (Fairport Convention's "A Sailor's Life", a couple of Sly & The Family Stone, the previously mentioned reggae mash of "Eleanor Rigby" among others) as a present". Nice influences.  :)

The Trems did some good, weird stuff in the 70s. They recently played in Coventry (Bedworth) as a big re-union gig with some chap called Brian Poole...?

Now there's a thought for Cropredy 07.

Peggy went and saw Whole Lotta Led last Thursday....so that's a possibility too!

Procul Harum  and 10cc were bad enough.... still, there's the Brasenose  :-X

Now, what about the Bonzos....I've been reading extremely good reviews.

I had three tickets for last night at Leicester.  I was let down by someone and couldn't afford to go.  The three different people who had agreed to buy the tickets also let me down, right at the last minute so I didn't have time to find other buyers.  £82.50 down the drain :'(

I'll get a full review from someone else who went later today :-\

I'd have had one - even if I knew I'd been held 'in reserve'.....

Why did I not think to post them on here ??? (slapping forehead smiley)  Doh...

James Blunt is rubbish, there is no way i would consider him anything to do with folk music  jamesc

Great driver though.  He listens to Fairport when he's driving , did you know that ???

How do you know that? Were you hitching down the M69 and he picked you up?

Blimey! James comes straight out with controversy!

well he is,he cannot sing, but then ,when has that stopped people before. Maybe it,s just me but he dos not have the feel for the the music that I find other real folk singer type people have ,Ithink he should change his name to james bland  jamesc

I don't know what tells me this, james, but I have an inkling that Cocker's post might have been tinged with a touch of irony.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like James Blunt :P

But then I really only listen to Radio 3 or 4 (and sometimes MH on 2), so I didn't have him force fed to me for months whenever I went near a radio...

Oh, right, no change there then....