TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Does anybody remember the short film Fairport made in 1978 (if I remember right).
It was finally shown at Broughton castle in 81.
I think it was some sort of promotion for Adnams brewery :) and was filmed in Southwold.
Swarbrick wasn`t in it and another fiddler (possibly female)took his place.
Anyone know the story behind this? Has onybody got a copy?
Apologies if this has come up before.

I think that it was called "In at one end and out of the other"

I suspect the fiddle-ist was sue draheim

(Alright Graham, long time no see!  :))

I don't think it was Sue Draheim - I know Sue & I think she'd have mentioned it. She'd been back in the States for a few years by then as well.

Not sure who it was though - think I've heard but can't quite drag it out...

I saw Sue last year I think playing fiddle for Tempest. She is no longer in tempset, but she was great in it.  Never heard about the film. I would dearly love all the old FC footage on DVD. No interviews, just songs and footage.

If anyone wants to send me a copy of the vid, I can make DVD's. Quality won't improve, but at least it won't deteriorate.

If my memory serves me correctly, and that is a bit of an "if" - I thought it was a young Chris Leslie fiddling with the band on this occasion?  I know his association with the band does stretch back that far.  Having never seen the video in question, I can't be sure though.

MH

Not the age-less Sue, as has been noted. The project was the work of one Luke Jeans, film-maker, who had family connections with Southwold and was a friend of Simon Lofthouse, MD of Adnams. Funding for the short film (largely a tourism puff for the area centring on a period reconstruction of the Battle of Sole Bay when a Dutch Naval raiding party came and made ninnies of an over-refreshed Royal Naval detachment supposeddly guarding that part of the coast) was a bit nebulous at the time of shooting, and Mr Swarbrick, having recently had an interface with the world of more professional film-making, (in fact there is somewhere a featurette starring him as a detective in a movie made by the National Children's Film Unit or somesuch) chose not to come along with Peggy, Bruce and myself. He felt it was a waste of time and too damned amateurish. Nothing daunted, we declared ourselves willing without him so as not to let Luke and Simon down, and between them they came up with the name of a friend of a friend who lived in the area. (That part of the Suffolk Coast has always been a hotbed of Bohemianism...) Sadly, the girl's name now escpes me, but she was pefectly cast (a willowy hippy, good bone structure, long hair etc.) and an adequate player for the music we attempted. I think Peggy had a copy, possibly on VHS but that was a LONG time ago. He's in Brittany currently, perhaps Martin Driver will try to jog his memory......

One to show at Cropredy ???

Would it be a possibility to show some movie clips of old concerts etc - or is it too technically / logistically demanding/

Hello,  Peggy here. I do believe that this film was shown at Broughton castle in 1981? I do have a copy of it somewhere, but believe it to be Simon Loftus' property. he owns Adnams Brewery and funded the project. The music was recorded by me in our little studio at Cropredy and was written by myself and a chap called Arthur Conduit who was a double glazing salesmen in Banbury!!!. It featured Chris Leslie and his brother John and we all got involved in the project and performed  for free as we rated Adnams and Simon Loftus as a company. I remember Simon Nicol and I having to climb a drainpipe at our southwold hotel as we had locked ourselves out!! Not an easy task after a dozen or so pints of broadside!.

but i bet you wouldnt have done it without the beer inside you

Re: other fairport on film...
Yep I remember the film in the marquee thingy at Broughton Castle....nothing about it though
But, have there been any other appearances apart from: Swarbs cameo as 'fiddler at Barn dance' in Far from the madding crowd (with Julie Christie and Terence Stamp)
Peggy at least (cant remember who else) in who dares wins (Lewis Collins, SAS film)
and a snatch of Matty in the background of A film(song ?, something anyway) for Romeo Brass
Graham

Gerry Conway and Marc & Jerry Donahue....those three dressed as hell's angels, Peggy looking like he'd just come in from milking the cows  :)

Corking idea, Greglin.

How about a mini marquee near the top of the field to show Fairport and related films in (time to get the 16mm cine projector and Betamax VCR out Peggy  ;D ) just in case the weather turns inclement - or maybe even if it is clement.

It would need a bit of organisation, but maybe it could be run by a local charity and have a donation box for satisfied punters.

There would be more than a few happy people reminiscing if it was possible. Failing the marquee, maybe a room in the pavilion.

Hope this is OK on this thread. Switched on TV last night as The Royal was coming to an end and Sandy & FC playing Who Knows where the Time goes was in the background.

Roll up Roll up - the Cropredy Odeon ??? Peanuts and popcorn and Peggy with a torch shouting " That's not allowed in the back row"  ???

Not sure how it could be done, but I'm sure there is a lot of footage out there that people would like to see. Obviously there would be logisitical problems, but as a charitable exercise - send / lend your footage for viewing with an appropriate donation? Or maybe the guys have enough of a headache organising this year already................

Is that really Peggy's first post?  WOW.    I would like to again plug the idea of a DVD or DVDs of all FC footage and songs.  It all comes around...again.  And hopefully a ntsc version. There is so much great footage and to me, FC is better live. The albums don't seem to capture the same energy. And the live footage I have seen is always amazing. The version of Polly is just so good, even if it missing one verse. I would buy as many as are released. I'm sure FC are looking forward and want to promote their current offerings, but their past is also important.  Is it possible to open up the vaults? Is my dream just a pipe dream?

Ref my last post

can I copyright

" Peanuts and popcorn and Peggy with a torch ". or was it the other way around ????

there's a song lyric in there somewhere and it's MINE

And again this Sunday.  Story line involved a young man called Michael, suffering from Turets (sp?) syndrome.  They where putting him in an ambulance and the background music was "Crazy Man Michael" (FC with Sandy version)  I personally didn't think it was a very appropriate choice but there you go.
BD

I'd LOVE nothing more!
Just got my hands of an early Fairport DVD called FIDDLE HOUSE.
I stumbled onto this on eBay just last week and received it a few hours ago.
While I'm very grateful [thankful] for the 115 minutes of footage, I wished there was a BUNCH more!   8)

Anyone know how long this has been available, or at least on DVD?
And is there more available to the public from this era [1968-1976]? 

Glad there was lot of taping of Swarb, Peggy, Simon and Richard. 

Now I want MORE!   8) ;)

It's a boot....

and your point is, caller?





so full house eyes chap, whats on it im dieing to know(no green with envy smiley)
what about dm? wasnt he on it?

That there probably is, all called b**ts. Which we're unable to discuss here.

why cant we discuss them?
we just dont sell em
trading however is a different matter altogether

THe 'obtaining' of them, was the question....

what question was that?
 look i know, out of respect for the chaps that bootlegging cant be openly condoned, Maart has made his views perfectly clear
and you have to respect that

    but even Maart knows that these boots exist and that they will circulate amongst the fans of the band, so surely they just have to grin and bear it,
 because once the cat is out of the bag, you'll never get it back in again
  one of the good points of the internet is that the days of going to backstreet shops and paying well over the odds are now a thing of the past
so the murky underground trade is well and truly kaput since the cd burner is pretty well universal
 so who does it hurt if a member comes on to gloat about a wee bit of rare footage he's just acquired?
certainly no one in FC

My understanding of the policy is that the ban is on the trading and especially the selling of bootlegs.

Discussion of them is fine.

Since it seems the discussion of this unofficial historical document is allowed. What is on it? What songs? What line ups? What is the quality? Is it pal or ntsc? I am very interested in such documents. And I want more:)  But I also support the band by buying almost all their official cds.

 

Well I didn't realize it was a boot when I purchased it, but it did seem suspicious. 
They used the Liege & Lief border to attract folks yearning for such an item. 
I'm in the U.S., the seller in Luxembourg. 

Yes, DM is in it, but the Drummer doesn't get as much Love from cameramen. 
He did get more attention while playing guitar later, though.  8)

Here's the order:
FRENCH T.V. BOUTON ROUGE 1968
 1. Morning Glory
 2. Time Will Show The Wiser
 3. Reno Nevada  
    (Only the above 3 are in Black & White)

LIVE AT MAIDSTONE 1970  
 4. [Medley]
    / The Lark In The Morning
    / Rakis Paddy
    / Foxyhunter Jigs
    / Toss The Feathers

 5. Sir Patrick Spens
 6. Now Be Thankful
 
 7. My Front Pages [Matthews Southern Comfort
 8. Southern Comfort [Matthews Southern Comfort]

 9. Flatback Caper
10. Jenny's Chickens/The Mason's Apron

GLASTONBURY FAYRE 1971  
11. Dirty Linen

OLD GREY WHISTLE TEST 1973
12. Brilliancy Medly/(Impcomplete)

ROCKPALAST 1976
13. Sir B. Mackenzie
14. When First Into This Country
15. Cropedy Capers
=========================================
I also didn't mention Ian or now Iain Matthews, but he gets most of the coverage
on the first 3 tracks, along with Judy Dyble and Richard Thompson. 
Iain, of course, get more camera shots leading his Southern Comfort during the Maidstone event, too. 

Overall, though, it's Swarb in the spotlight mostly except for the first 3 tracks, of course,
on French TV in 1968.   The Maidstone coverage reminds one of how they looked inside the
Full House LP jacket.  Swarb w/ his fringe suede jacket but opened, and clean-shaven, Peggy
without the hat, DM with a bit shorter hair.  Richard and Simon look about the same.   8)

No Sandy Denny coverage at all.     :'(   

Oh, it's also on NTSC. 

And to set the record straight. 
This is only my first Fairport boot, and until I recieived it in the mail, still thought it
might be legit.  Never saw it available before.  I don't really collect DVD's, this is only my 5th.
Fairport is very special, so I had to have this.  Who here wouldn't?   8)

Anyway, I've been more of an LP/45 later a CD collector. 
I've spent tons of legit $$ on Fairport, along w/ Ian Matthews & his bands, Richard Thompson, Swarb, Sandy, Fotheringay, etc.,   in both vinyl and CD. 

I think 1 unknowingly boot isn't going to really upset anyone. 
Besides, living in the U.S., I'm probably the only one here that has yet to see them perform LIVE. 
Try to imagine that. 
 
I've missed every rare opportunity I've had in the States. 
While I was lucky enough to see Gram Parsons w/ The Flying Burrito Bros. or w/ Emmylou Harris 4 times,
I haven't been as fortunate to see my all-time Favorite  band, Fairport Convention. 
I think most will understand my dilemma. 

Yeah, the many LIVE Fairport CD's I own are absolutely fantastic, but this DVD put me one step closer to what
I've been missing all my life.  And I'll be 55 later this year. 
Only 2 1/2  years younger than Richard Thompson, eh?     8)
 

I bet the first three tracks are really fuzzy and grainy.If they are copies of copies.

It took a lot of hard work to acquire them from the French Television company and promises had to be made about the limited use of them as well as permissions gained from the FC members shown in it.

I do find it a bit galling that they turn up on bootlegs.

Jude

P.S For all I know the makers may have had permission from somewhere, in which case............*shrug*

Exactly correct, Jude.  Those 3 tracks are at best, "grainy, fuzzy", etc. 
In fact, remember back in the day TV pictures would skip? 
Yeah, it does that too.  Fluttering, the whole bit.       :(

So....is there any way that can be checked out/sorted?

Or should Full House Eyes just pop a cheque in the post    ::)

im not feeling quite so enviousnow as ive got most of that lot

Hi Jude,
  I am curious about your feeling of gall. Can you explain it to me? I am a serious collector of historic documents. I collect many different bands. But FC has a special place in my heart. I know not every band has the grateful dead view of live recordings. Fripp is a perfect example. We have talked about this in email, but I would like your reasons. I understand Maarts view on demo or out takes. They were not ment for public consumtion. But everything on that DVD was ment for public consumtion and was broadcast. They were ment ot be viewed. They were origianlly broadcast for free.  They are not bad performances. Except for monatary matters, I would think more exposure would make the artists happy. And it seems to me that releasing past footage seems quite low on the priorities of FC. I would like to pay for official live documents. I feel no shame in hunting down rare tracks or documents. It is what archivists and collectors do. After many years of boots, King Crimson now has a collectors club. I find the prices high and didn't like that it started as a club with a  steep buy in. But at least it is moving in the right direction. And the ones I have make me very happy.  What do you find galling about boots? That you are not getting money? That they are poor quality? I am very curious. Did you finally get the colour copies of the french tv show?

 

perhaps, and i speak without knowledge and pehaps out of turn, jude, you found ist very difficult to have your own rights to that french footage then,  so to see it readily availsble now is the galling factor?
add to that no payment or artistic rights........

but i also understand the view of the collecter who will buy everything available, legit or not, to have it all.

 ??? :-X

You are both right

probably I am being oversensitive, but some bits of my performances that are available on bootlegs make me totally cringe.

 I don't care if the bootlegs are made and sold because people want to hear Richard or Swarb or whovever playing and I am only there  by accident.
If I'm there and it's a dreadful performance by me then I'm not happy.

Because it then appears that I can't sing.

And I reckon I blimmin' can sing.

So there

 :o ::)

Jude the fierce

Shouldn't that be "gauling"?

The other side to the bootleg issue is the quality of the material itself.

The Bouton Rouge footage was filmed in colour but an early transfer between video formats made a hash of this picture and resulted in a rubbish, jumpy black and white image. I recall Jude saying that this footage should have been available in colour and fought long and hard to track this down and get it available - A snippet of the colour version was subsequently used on BBC4's Folk Brittannia and it looked absolutely fine.

Bootlegs that peddle the black and white version with no royalty to the artists and owners are managing to rip off all parties in one fell swoop.


Absolutely! and I have very clear proof of this, acquired less than a month ago ... ironically in the form of a Bootleg Video! (though I'm afraid this one's not for sale.)

Cheers

Nick

Hm. There's something about respect here.

Because I love much of Peter Hammill's stuff ENORMOUSLY, from time to time I'm offered bootlegs
(some free, some affordable, some not affordable)

and I turn them down, even when they've been of gigs which were wonderful.

Because I don't actually have the need to possess all the work he's done,

especially when he's said that some of it is not to be released, for whatever reason.

And I choose to respect his wishes over my desire to have.

And that applies to all.

I suddenly feel very old fashioned.   ;D

You have a great attitude. But we are very much different creatures. I am a avid collector. I respect artists, but that doesn't include not getting more more more. The author of this thread is 55 and has never seen FC. I doubt that FC has any plans on officially releasing said footage. He could very well leave this mortal world before the footage is officially released. So I am happy that he has it. I think that Jude's view of horrible performances (are we talking about the same footage? You are fine in the video I saw.)  is understandable. But these performances were on tv.  I also understand Maart's view of unreleased not for public material. But I doubt I will change my collecting ways. It is my nature. I am not disrespecting artists. I would rather have official releases. Next is a fair trade. But I do pay for bootlegs, which does provide a black market with mullah. Its not evil, but it is not good. I think it is a grey area. I do have a need to posses. I am not as nice as you. Again, I respect you and everybodies viewpoint. I guess I am selfish.

ps I love Hammil on Fripp's solo  Exposure. His voice is so unique.

 

This issue of ancient films, bootlegs etc. is so difficult!

I must admit that I did illegally download one of those Fotheringay vids which surfaced recently - frankly the quality's rubbish, but it's great to see Sandy and Trev again.

Waited for the Sandy bit on Folk Britannia with bated breath - 30 plus years on I was really worried that she might not be as good as I remember her. But she was....pity they chose the wrong song......

We can hope that with the increase of interest in folk music, we may be vouchsafed more rare material via official channels like the BBC , but I ain't holding my breath!

There is an entire documentary about Ashley Hutchings from the late 1970's mouldering away somewhere. It's has (or had) Shirley Collins on it singing The Bonny Labouring Boy in the National's production of Lark Rise - lots of Albion stuff - John Tams - Martin Carthy - etc. etc. Wonder if Tyger himself has a copy? Thought not.

And what about all the wonderful traditional stuff that people like Doc Rowe have amassed? Let's hope it is all accessible via a mouse click one day, but again I doubt it. But miracles happen - who would have thought that three programmes about an obsolete system for making colour films would be a hit on TV? (Yer know, the Friese Greene thing)

Cheers - Ed

whilst we appreciate your interest in the fairport thing
the downloading of illegal material cannot be condoned
so its the hair shirt for you young fellow me lad
oh and the barbed wire grundies

seriously,this stuff is out there and hopefully will surface one way or the other
so why dont the fairport family get together find out what is available or what they have in the vaults and
do us all a favour while making a few bob for themselves

The actual cost in terms of hours spent & licencing fees far outstrips any potential 'few bob' unfortunately.

There are several people out there who have seriously looked into it & walked away...

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere but have done a search and this is the only thread I can find. The 1977 film 'in One End' about Southwold and Adnams ale featuring Fairport can be viewed on the BFI Player website for free at  https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-in-one-end-1977-online.

As has been mentioned in the posts from 2006, it features Simon, Peggy and Bruce but no Swarb, an unknown female player on fiddle instead. A full version of 'John Barleycorn' and an adaptation of 'All Things Bright and Beautiful' in praise of Adnams. Also tunes from Chris and John Leslie.

Not unknown...the link above explains that it is Ursula Smith (best known as Cellist with the Third Ear Band).  Thanks for the prompt though!

Thanks for the link Mark  - I noticed that Simon has a Dennis the Menace fan club badge on his guitar strap.

Is 15 years between posts in a thread a record?   ;D

Jules

It's a really interesting film...both subject matter and musically

So, am I right - it's topped and tailed by the two Fairport tracks (which appear to be mimed to - but still re-recorded versions - 'produced by Dave Pegg'), and the other material between them is all by 'John & Chris Leslie and Nigel West'?

Who is the narrator? It's a very familiar voice...

I thought that, but I didn't get any further.  It doesn't say in the credits I don't think.

Surely it's Tim Turner? If not, it should be!!  ;)

Definitely familiar, to be serious, but I can't quite place it...