TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

I seen posts, in the past, that speak negatively of Gottle of Gear. Couldn't comment, because I'd never heard it, however, I am now the proud owner of the aforesaid CD...
What is there not to like ???  I've now listened 2 or 3 times, I think it's great!!!  Am I missing something :-\

mic

i think that the thing with Gottle when it came out was how different it was from the preceeding lp's
a lot of people were disappointed at the time, and i didnt listen to it for years until as a sad completist b*****d i bought it on cd
and was pleasantly surprised at how well it had aged, i dont hate it anymore, its still not a fave but im quite fond of "fairport's" only cd

I like Frog Up The Pump. ;D
 
And why did they decide to call themselves Fairport and not Fairport Convention? ???

i was going to say something terribly rude, but my better judgement has prevailed
i think at the time Swarb and peggy were struggling with the fairport name seeing as simon had
gone and was becoming a star producer and guitarist in'th albions
 they were ,i believe, at one point consdering a name change to the furry freak brothers
but i think there was a legal problem with that name, so to compromise they dropped the "convention"
well eveyone just calls them fairport in any case

I seem to remember once reading somewhere that GOG was originally intended as a Swarb solo album (hence the one-off lineup), but although FC had more or less split up after "Rising For The Moon", they were still under contract to produce one more album for Island Records, and Peggy & Swarb being unsure as to whether or not to carry on with the band, released the album under the name of "Fairport", as a way of fulfilling their obligation to Island, whose relationship with the band was, apparently, somewhat less than cosy by this time...


By the way, Hello everyone and roll on August 10th!

that sounds about right

Hi Angus and welcome!

Something happening in August then? Oh yes, so there is!! ;D

Jude (new person welcomer and helloeeer) :D

That's a familiar bit of information, (I've cone across it in two or three places) but it's always struck me as a bit of an odd Swarb album as well. It doesn't sit easily with the rest of his solo work.

I think I recall Swarb saying something in Melody Maker along the lines of "It was an experiment.  It didn't work.  It was my fault"  I think there may be something in Humphries tome about it, but neither of my copies are to hand.

hello angus prune, fantastic name!

I think Humphrey's biography hit it right on the nose.  It was like ROSIE all over again, only this time w/o Trevor & Jerry (or Richard & Sandy for that matter) to rescue it.  I recall seeing it for the first time in a used record store when I was actively pursuing Fairport's back catalog in the early 80s (before the Hannibal reissues).  Even back then, I thought, "naw, better pass on this one."  It happened that a friend bought it later, and upon listening, felt very pleased with my instincts!  I do own it on disc now, but only after encountering it at a reasonable enough price to justify never having to listen to it. :D

Nope, you haven't convinced me ;)
Still think it's great ;D ;D

mic

Cheers! :)

Oh yes, Rosie?   Lurve that album ;D ;D Yet another can of worms perhaps ;)

mic

D'you know - I was going to give you my stock " Gottle " review - one word - four letters - starts with "s" and ends in"t", that's how strong peple feel about it. HOWEVER - I dug it out of the lead lined box, took off the childproof cover - removed the "dangerous" sicker, and gave it a quick spin.....................................................after another ( mercifully quick ) listen, my considered opinion is still s**t. It's just not a Fairport album. The songs are not geat - the production is lacklustre and the whole feel lacks heart - back into the box with a " Do Not Open Until Accrington Stanley win the premiership2 sticker............................sorry Mix

Apologies unecessary greglin ;D Each to their own, if we all liked the same things etc etc...
I'm just interested to know what it is that folks don't like about it. It's not your typical Fairport, yep, I'll agree with that. But that alone doesn't make it bad.
 I can't help it, people have been telling me for years that I'm weird (and other not so complimentary things), but I really really like it ::)

mic :D

Anyway.......................

Mix, to get back to Gottle - I have tried to listen to it a number of times over the years - even to the point of tying my wrists to the chair so I can't take it off until it's been played right through. And I still don't like it. It falls into a sort of nowhere land - and I have to be honest and say that I never did really identify with that version of FC at all anyway - too West Coast for my liking.

Probably understand where I'm coming from when I say that Rosie is my next "least favourite " album - and that I only very occasionally go back to "Holdays" and / or Unhalfbricking.

We could try a cCropredy experiment - havd Gottle playing for a prolongd period of time in an area of the field and see if it atracts or drives eople aay

 I think that G o G has to be the only FC disc that has never had any of its tracks performed at Cropredy.

That's shame ;) ::) ;)


Well if nowt else it would get me a space all to myself on the field ;D ;D

mic

I thnk one of the reasons that I was never that enamoured with G o G was that Swarby, bless 'im, was never a great lyricist. "Rosie" worked, tho   :)

Been listening to GoG today in the car after reading this thread yesterday.  The one track I really like is track two, "Lay me down easy"? The others are pleasant enough.

Y'know, i  bet lots of us have dug out Gottle and played it again after reading this thread.

Although my replay only confirmed my dislike - I might just try the old " have eight pints and listen through a fog of good will" trick. It usually works with the pub bore so here goes - off to the Corporation Arms...................

As an album, it is quite ShorT, yes.  Hang on, that's 5 letters...

MH

I think G o G is better than it´s acquired reputation. It´s not a "typical Fairport" album but if Swarb wanted to try another direction, why not. "When I first into this country" and "Lay me down easy" (any band´s anthem?) I truly enjoy and are better to my liking than other odd, not too good, Fairport tracks, like "Mr Lacey", a track I could never come to terms with.Especially interesting with the swirling organ sound on many G o G tracks (I´ve been out running this morning with G o G in my ears). Only album with that instrument, as far as I can remember  ::)! I do listen to G o G occasionally,  quite voluntarily actually. I regard it as yet another side of a very versatile band and their 37 year output. Is it possibly one of the more daring Fairport Convention musical projects to touch another thread?  :o The album seems at least to stir emotions  ;)
Staffan

You know what they say - the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.........

This thread shows how many of us did buy GoG when it came out on CD - now, was that a first time buy, just to complete the FC collection, or because we hadn't heard it first ?

I say that 'cos i've just realised I knew I'd never get to like it when I had the album but still bought it on CD ! Strange........

It is interesting you would point that out (the repurchase of the G'oG album on CD), because I will fess up to having the same situation with the very first Fairport Convention album.  I'd listened to much of Fairport's output on my brother's vinyl collection, but the first, self-titled album was the first one I purchased for myself, knowing that I'd never seen it amongst my brother's albums.  I listened to it a few times, but never really quite felt that it gelled as a whole album, so I gave it to my
brother.  Then, years later, when I decided to get every FC album on CD, I repurchased it to try and give it another chance.  I like all of the songs that Judy did lead vocals on, but I once again took what I liked off of it and passed it along to my brother. 

Never even thought of giving up my CD of Gottle, so I guess I must be in a minority in preferring it to the first album.   I admit that is a short and slightly strange collection of things that don't have the weight of much of the band's output, but I think that I can enjoy the things that it has to offer.

Am I alone in liking Limey's Lament?

No, it's one of my favourites on the album as well (along with 'Don't Be Late', the tunes, 'When First'...).

It's also the one track from the album that actually outlived the Gottle touring line-up in the live set.

I've heard of G O G but never seen it for sale anywhere. Any chance it'll be for sale at Cropredy, does anyone know or have influence in this area?

I got mine off Amazon, (or was it ebay?!)

Pleasant enough I reckon. Far from their best, but I'll still play it.

I know GOG is hardly a classic, but please when compared to some of the dross the band have turned out (XXXV anyone?), at least it is original. :o

well said that man

Ok, ok, give me however many minutes, and I'll get back to you on this one... listening right now (first time, look I buy these cd's but don't always get round to playing them straight off ::), I'm weird...that's fine ;))

Back soon, but I have to say, first track nearly finished (Madeline) wow!!!! Brilliant!!!!

mic

I'm back (didja miss me ;))

Listened to XXXV all the way through now, err? woss supposed to be up with this one ??? Not packed with new stuff? Wasn't it an anniversary type of thingy release?
Lots of favourites of mine on there, The Happy Man, Portmeirion (not sure why it made me cry tonight though, doesn't usually), The Crowd (love that song) The Deserter (one of my all time favourites, can't possibly have too many recordings of that) etc...

New ones (to me) Madeline, *****, The Light of Day, *****, Everything But The Skirl, *****. (*****= 5/5 stars)
My Love Is In America, another one you can't have to many recordings of!

Nope, not convinced there's owt wrong with this one either :)  (You can keep trying though, what's next?) ;)

mic

I also rate XXXV.  But then again i think TWATW is a brilliant album.  It was TWATW tour that I first saw FC in concert and I thought they were brilliant and I have cursed myself for not taking any notice of them before, however I need to catch up further on early FC I have Angel Delight which has some great stuff on.

TWATW made me sit up and take notice of FC which then led me to Croppers!  NUff SAID! ;D

oops - I'm gonna be Barry the Bore again, on my one man crusade ......................

Do listen to " Tippler's Tales" and " Bonny Bunch of Roses" if you want to go back the eariier stuff ( apart from the live albums which are alway a good compendium). TT and BBoR are perhaps two of the most immediate FC albums in terms of tunes etc, but I've never ever got tired of 'em. In fact, I'm gonna have another listen now.......................

Which poses the question that should have been asked in the first place:

Mic,
Is there an album by Fairport that you DON'T like?

Why wileytown.... I do believe you may be onto something there ;D ;D

but, I keep looking ;) ;)

mic

I was introduced to Fairport with their CD (XXXV) and simply loved it!!!  ::)

My favorite (My Love Is In America).  :-*

I agree with you Mic ( on this one) I think it's good music. :)

hi musiclover,
congrats on your good taste!!  uk's very own shirley collins is doing a concert tour at the moment with a show entitled 'america across the water'
i don't know if a cd will be issued but you can check it out on www.shirleycollins.com
i'm off to see her next weekend in hastings. i'll get some info if i can

as with most artists, i dont love every track on every album, but my fave from xxxv is light of day, follwed by neil gow's apprentice, and also my love is in america.

can someone explain the shirley collins reference with regard to that song?
its credited to chris leslie on the album...........

Might be something to do with whatever-his-name-is Lomax who Shirley Collins was involved with, romantically, spiritually, musically, whatever, for a period of time, I believe. In the 50's/60's?  He was a "musicologist" who travelled the USA tracing the history of traditional American folk song, with her. But I might be wrong in this.

All of the worms have been removed in the interest of hygiene.

GOG is an enjoyable experiment, particularly Frog Up the Pump, definitely not middle of the road either more a dive for the outer recesses of the ditch.

You didn't ask me, but I, too, think XXXV is OK; not their best, but OK. I love "Neil Gow's Apprentice," "Madeline," and "The Happy Man"; they are amongst my very favorite songs by the band.

And, yes, there are FC albums I don't like: Full House (dismal recording, lackluster performances...although live they were fantastic), and "Gottle O' Gear (although I am quite fond of "When First Unto this Country.")

Gottle O'Geer? Utter dross. Musical and artistic failure. NB The same could be said for 90% of the post-1978 output but special mention for XXXV and The Wood and the Wire... Truly truly execrable. Once again I am shocked at the lunatic lack of discernment in much of what passes for a fanzine...

Worms jumping...

Once again Jack, you have succinctly summed my thoughts on this topic. Are you my conscience ?

Cheers Nigel

Definitely a lively debate. Like the Church of England, an active body of worshippers with many differing views all within the FC family............and all the better for iit too.

I suggest that the "pro- Gottle of Geerers" hold a rally at Cropredy in support of their views - by the look of things a six man tent should be sufficient...........................

Anyway, show me a 35 + year old band who hasn't made a bad album ......... ( Paul McCartney take note, it's nearly 35 years since you made a good one ! )

The trouble with the albums around the time of TWATW and XXXV is that Fairport had enjoyed a renaissance with JITC and fans were eagerly awaiting a flood of new material.

What they got was a flood of re-recorded material (XXXV, WNWTTG, ONBB) diluting what was already pretty thin fair. Many I know (including myself) felt they were being "milked" - and to be honest, I don't think it is possible to argue with that point of view. It happened. Fairport became a Fairport tribute band. Thankfully OTNH  (even though I am not keen on its musical direction) has reversed that trend.

But useful for catchy-uppers like me ;)

mic

Can't argue with that Mark - i've got to the stage where I don't even pick up the FC compilations in HMV any more - even if I hadn't seen that one before.

"live" recordings a bit different - you nearly always get to hear things differently. Which reminds me - be honest now, I'm a poor man - is "Off the Desk" a worthwhile investment?

But, yes, I think I'm very definitely also an "up to JITC" man......................

Oh yes!!!! ;D   Seriously, yes {:-)
mic

So I should definitely crowbar open my wallet and peel apart that white fiver I've been saving ???????????????

What makes it more a "must have" then any of the previous "Live" offerings ??

I reckon that the live offerings on the Unconventional boxed set give the widest and best representation, but of course you don't get the concert feel.

And the boxed set does cost more than a single CD.

Oh well, I'll shut up and go away now.

Their best live album has to be In Real Time, but the new one is def worth buying, especially if you've seen them recently. Two CDs for £13 is good value. ;D

Would have liked some sleeve notes as to where each track was recorded (just in case I was there and you can hear me whooping in the background ...) but there's some nice pics. Good for singalongafairport whilst driving, and driving my husband mad ("can't we listen to something else for a change. You've always got them or that Allcock bloke on. Let's have some eighties synthpop etc etc").  ::) ::) ::)

Hi Bridwit, this might help...
http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?topic=13958.msg169922#msg169922

if the link works anyway ::)

mic

Apart from the fact that its not live.......... ;D

or the best live album

. . .which is "Fairport Live Convention".

Having said which, I haven't heard the new one yet.

Isn't it? What is it then?

A studio album with canned applause (and not even applause from anFC show at that!)

Haven't listened to Gottle in ages but never really liked it, I thought the production was pretty awful and< heresy alert, a bit too much of Swarb singing for my liking. One of FC's strong points up till then was the multi vocalist aproach IMHO.

I agree that XXXV isnt one of the best, and I really loathe Madeleine as an opener,  but I do have a fondness for much ofWood and the Wire, but although I like many of the songs there is something about listening to it as a complete album that doesn't quite hang together.

Do folks think it an issue that an everage pre-CD album would be about 8 or 9 tracks whereas in the CD are we're looking at maybe 12 or 14. With a bit of pruning would XXXV or WatW have been better with only 8 or 9 of the best songs on them.

Jackdaw

Cheers for the link, Mix!
Sorry, I had no idea In Real Time wasn't live. It's even got a picture of them performing on the front. Feel a bit cheated now.  ???

Blimey, it'll be lip-sync-ing at Cropredy next ....

... and I agree with jackdaw67 - many CDs these days just contain filler tracks that don't add any quality to your listening. Still, if you're downloading to an MP3 you can at least delete them off (that's what I do, anyway). I bought a copy of Ziggy Stardust with "bonus tracks" recently - they turned out to be Bowie singing 2 of the songs - badly - with an acoustic guitar. Not good.

In Real Time was put together for the US market to coincide with a big Fairport tour with Jethro Tull. It was really a record label exercise rather than a proper album (live or otherwise).

The album itself was recorded "As Live". That is, the tracks were recorded in a studio but were played through as if in a live setting - all players playing together from start to finish with no overdubs. The applause was then added to make it seem live (though this I reckon was a mistake and unnecessary.)

Fairport aren't the only band to have done this. Penguin Cafe Orchestra's Concert Program (in my opinion their best release) is similarly recorded As Live.

That said, I reckon In Real Time is still a great album. The performances are good and the sound is clear and atmospheric. It is a very good reflection of how Fairport sounded at the time. I would far rather have In Real Time than a Best Of compilation.

Cheers

Nick

Ditto - versionof Hiring Fair on in Real Time still my favourite....

And to stay on topic - have played GoG AGAIN in car on long trek this a.m - still can't find anything to endear it to me. Think i shall definitely recycle as pot holder ............oh, you can't do that with CDs as you used to with vinyl.

Best Live albums? Official - House Full.... fantastic Thompson powering through a class.... absolutely A1 class.... band! Mattacks kicking the living scheidt out of the drums... Peggy playing sumptuous bass... Swarb at hios most brillaint and misdchievous (who of us privileged enough to see that line up can forget the regular competitions to see who could get to the end fastest (Swarb nine times out of 10)...

Unofficial: Same line up at the Philadelphia Folk Fest 1970.... Bliss it was in those days etc etc

I remember a friend telling me that he really didn't like Fairport, and I asked which albums he owned. It turned out he only had the debut album and Gottle. Not quite the finest examples of their worth, I pointed out to him.

If we're opening cans of worms then I admit I don't have any enthusiasm for any FC album that doesn't feature Swarb, but even I never really got into Gottle o'Geer

GoG is a great, although slightly odd album.  Gallagher and Lyle at the dizzy height of thier own success recording with "Fairport" (rather than "Fairport Convention")! 

You will always get people who criticise different albums.................  I know their are some Fairport Purists who always refer to "Rising for the Moon" as "Fotheringay II".  There are probably some on here!  AS LONG AS YOU ENJOY IT - who cares!!!

(Still don't think much of "In Real Time" though!  An Island anniversary "Cash Cow")

The only possible merits of that opener is to appeal to line-dancers.   And we know what THEY do to piglets, don't we.