TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

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Please use this thread to talk about the Hancock Awards in general.

Cheers!

Heres a good one - are there any guidelines as to what is folk and what isnt for the purposes of these awards (i.e. i don't want to get into the whole 'everything is folk' discussion....)

For example Rodrego Y Gabriella were possibly my top act of the year - and I saw them at Cambridge Folk Festival - but are they folk?

They count because you've mentioned them, Martin.

Someone will be along to tell us soon Sir Martin but I'm sure that Carey would say (as do I) that if its a band you saw, especially at a Folk Festival, you liked them then propose away.

I know they won't win, but if just one person sees them who wouldn't have done otherwise as a result of the nomination, then it was worth it.

One thing I've been curious about since the 2006 awards, how is this financed ?  Those awards don't look cheap.

Didn't someone, a legal type,  once say "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it"?
My point being, if you think it's folk, it probably is. I don't think it's worth spending too much time worrying or arguing about whether stuff is 'authentic' or not, if you like it, just dig it.   O0

Can we nominate people who won the awards last year or not?

No

Ta..

If someone won an award last year then you can't nominate them for the same award this year. You can nominate still nominate them for a different award this year though.

E.g. Bellowhead can't be nominated for Best Group this time because they won that award last year. However they can still be nominated for Best Album this time.

As a reminder, each award topic states who won that award last year.

Cheers

Nick

I think this is an absolutely brilliant thing, and thanks to Nick for organising it all again.

I shall spend the next few days pondering on some nominations.

If they looked cheap it would be pointless. They have to be something that Carey would have been proud of, we are proud of and the artists really want.
The financing is done using magik.

I've heard of that stuff.

But I've never actually seen it.

And Colin is a really magik person ;D ;D ;D :-*

Ah but is he Voldemort, Harry or Arthur Weasley  ;)

Seriously tho. thanks again to all for arranging this. I think they are an outstanding testament to the regard we hold Carey's memory in.

What's the closing date for nominations?

So I guess there's just time for everyone to go back and review the nominations made, see if any need seconding, see if any have been missed and present those crucial arguments that will win the nomination for your chosen candidates.

Still time to nominate for Best Original Song! Have a look at the albums you've bought over the last year and think about that stand-out track.

There are surely some more nominations for Best Newcomer too? Perhaps someone would like to nominate a certain board member who has made a bit of a reputation for herself as an a-capella singer lately? ... or maybe some have noticed a young bunch from Banbury-way who've risen to some prominence this year?  ;)

Keep the nominations coming in!!

Cheers

Nick

In the year that Joe Boyd published his book White Bicycles, should there be some kind of recognition for him? A Lifetime Achievement Award? Who knows how folk rock wiould have turned out without him?

Seconded.

I'm only half way through his book at the moment but I'll happily third this one. I just wonder how he remembered it all thru the 60's  ???

Can I point you to the category of "All Round Good Egg Folkie"?  ;)

Cheers

Nick

You can, but I don't think JB really fits that category. His achievement - it seems to me - sits outside an "annual" category.



Edit: We don't have another category though...  and given that you introduced his nomination with the words "In the year that Joe Boyd published his book" I think an 'annual' category might be ok.

You're a slow reader Mike C.. I got that signed for you at Croppers!!  ;D :D

There has been plenty of time for proposals but now we need to sort out the polls themselves. So we're now closed for new nominations ... but that doesn't mean the final choices for candidates have been made. We need closing arguments and a final debate to influence the selection and sway things in favour of your preferred choices.

Some of the nominations have not been seconded  :o

Some nominations have been countered with criticism  :-X

Some nominations have received little more than a brief "I nominate X" without any background or reason why  ::)

So now is a good time for you to read through the threads, look at those artists you've nominated and think about what more you can say to get them chosen  ;)

Cheers

Nick

Very good points, Nick.

I've made a quick appraisal of particular categories and, despite pages and pages of nominations, only a couple of the named bands/musicians will make the ballot paper for want of a seconder or a reasoned proposal.

Buck up, everyone!

What's the final deadline for supporting statements & seconds, Nick?

It depends on when the hangovers wear off.  ::)  :D

The New Year seems like a good time to switch from nominating/seconding to voting. It'll take a while to wade through the nominations so voting will probably begin in the week after. Mods will handle the review of nominations and will be on their best behaviour to ensure the right and fair decisions are made. We can continue to discuss the choices made and the progress of the votes themselves throughout the voting period. Votes will be counted in time to coincide with the Radio 2 awards.

Happy New Year!

You can comment about the award in general in this topic.
If you want to talk about an individual award, please put in the appropriate poll topic.

You have two votes in each poll, which can be changed at any time. The results will only be announced at the end, but the leader in each poll will be given at the end of each week.

Well I'm disgusted that The Aggies didn't get into the polls!!

They were argued for with passion and clarity by several people!

Why have they been excluded!

 >:( >:( >:(

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind the two votes to me?  If one is grading things (ie in a single trasferable vote kind of way voting 1, 2, 3 etc) then that is clear, but two votes for the same category strikes me as a little bizarre...

St Agnes: In 'best live act' they only had one post. In 'best group' they had five, which was the same as the Demon Barbers and less than The Levelers. Seeing as half of St Agnes got an award last year and the rest are in the running for other awards, the place went to the Barbers. It also makes the awards less of a TalkAwhile group hug.

Two votes: If you wish you can use only one. The idea is that not all the votes will go to the 'usual suspects'. The board doesn't support complex voting systems and neither do the brains of our aging beer addled members.
If you feel very strongly that one listed artist should win, you just place one vote for them (so in effect denying the others a vote). If you think there are two worth candidates, you vote twice.

Nope...don't understand that either.  Sorry.

I think he means that it is acceptable to use only one of the votes: i.e., you are allowed up to two votes.

I tend to agree that multiple votes only makes sense when a ranking mechanism is used, but I cannot argue with the mods' self-assessment  ;)

Is it possible to have any links to any of the tracks/songs listed? Or even snippets? I don't want to dismiss something because I can't remember (lousy brain cells) or indeed haven't heard yet.

I know there are clever people here, but maybe it just wouldn't be feasible  :-\

Thanks

Ah now I get it, thanks Bob, the sentence would be better as

Two votes: You can use only one if you wish

You have 2 votes which you may choose to use or not. Its up to you. If you only want one act/song/whatever to win then use one vote in voting for them and don't use your 2nd one at all. If you either can't choose between a couple or think there are two which merit winning then vote for both of them. Its to try and spread the voting around a bit.

Mix, thats a very good idea but I suspect there may be reasons why we couldn't get all of them linked. Some yes but, and I'll bow to Nick and Yabbs prowess here, I think to try and do it at this stage could be a tad difficult.

The idea is that people who want to lobby for an artist will post links and information.
That's why you are allowed to change your vote.

Thanks Mike, that's what I thunk  :D

Thanks Colin, I hope so. I'll hold off on some votes for a little while in case  :)

Thanks for explaining!  I understand the process, but the logic of the decision in terms of a 'vote' which someone is to win is, I am afraid, incomprehensible to me.... anyway my votes (one in each category) have been made...I look forward to seeing who wins  ;)

Shame about Seize The Day not getting through.  Still, there's next year...

Thanks to all those responsible for organising all this again, it's always fun :)

Is it me, or last year, once we had posted our vote, did we have a percentage bar showing us the leaders and losers so far??  ???

I seem to remember that too JJ.. maybe it's just too early for that??

I think it was in some categories, but not in all  :-\
However, I could be wrong in this, it has been known...  ::)

No. The Hancocks have always been a hidden vote.

Nobody but the Admins can see how the voting is going.

You can, however, change your votes.

Sandra

What happened to the proposed, seconded and thirded idea of a lifetime achievement award for Joe Boyd?

There isn't a Lifetime Achievement Award  :-\

Yes - why not?   :)

Karl

Because the awards are not cheap to produce and Colin funds them, so I reckon he can have whatever awards he wants ;D ;D ;D

Now if you want to fund your own awards..........

Err? I don't know if I should say so or not, but in view of the posts about seeing or not seeing vote results as they happen.... I can see them in Best Traditional Track  :)


and Best Duo.

Oops  ::)

Thanks Mic - you shouldn't be able to see them any more now  ;)

I can see the results everywhere I have voted. With the ability to recast your votes, this could lead to some interesting last minute tactical changes.

Ok, there's a software bug or something. I definitely made them all invisible when I set them up  ::)

Soon fix that...

Hm. I think that it was NOT A DREAM.

I placed my vote for St Agnes Fountain - that's 'voted', not 'nominated' - and now they're gone!

Unvoteable for, it disappears.

I think it seriously unsporting to put them up with apparent viable votability and then withdraw
that option AFTER a vote for them has been posted.

Hm   >:(

I couldn't find a place to enable me vote for them at all..

But they certainly had plenty of nominations....  >:( >:( >:( >:(

St. Agnes have never been in the voting.
The only possibility is that several days ago (long before the voting started) there were several test polls put on the board, for tens of minutes, to test that the right people could vote and that things were working correctly.

The voting started on Thursday at about 1:10pm, as announced. After that the polls have not been changed. They can't be without totally reseting them.

Ah, that must be it, then. I misled myself by a "test poll".

Keep practicing anyway Anji, the dancing is coming on a treat  ;) ;D ;)

  :o :o ;D Mic, that is truly a Gold Star response  ;D ;D

My point exactly.

As Sandra pointed out Colin funds these awards, for which we are very grateful, and I'm sure his funds aren't limitless. It's a bit ungrateful to ask for more isn't it?
That we have them, that they are the beautiful pieces of art that they are, is certainly more than enough!!!

Yes they are. Colin has patents for everything you are using at the moment, and thinking. In fact, he 0wn5 U  ;D

For the most part the Hancocks follow the same categories as the BBC R2 awards. Last year we recognised that there were many people who made contributions to the folk scene who could not be considered in any of the other categories. That's why we introduced All Round Good Egg Folkie as our own category, to be the Hancocks equivalent of the various 'lifetime achievement' and other recognition awards.

The Hancocks differ from other awards in that the general public are able to nominate for then vote for every single award being offered. We do not give awards out to anyone without putting them to the vote.

Maybe Joe Boyd does deserve an award. But it's not going to happen just because one person said so. It's for the membership of the board as a whole to decide, and during the Hancock awards the chance to make that decision is available via the Good Egg award. I did suggest that at the time the nominations were open but the offer was turned down.

Cheers

Nick

The general public are allowed on this board? How disappointing. They get everywhere nowadays.

Please remind me: when does the voting close? ???

Never mind - I found it: 4 Feb

Well looks like Show of Hands are gonna sweep the board. Maybe I should try to like them...........

Blimey, AnnieD, it's  not that hard  :o :o :o

I'm afraid I'm with AnnieD...I'm struggling a little... it's not so much the songs, its more the sound...there's a 'bombast' in the playing that just doesn't appeal to me... I'll keep trying, mind...  ;)

What if I say it several times?

What about voting Mawkin for the Best-Band-From-Essex-Who-Play-Guitar-,-Melodeon-,-Fiddle-And-Guitar-With-Two-Brothers-In-The-Line-Up-Award?

Thats not too specific is it?

;-)

Sorry Dave, for now you'll just have to polish up the Hancock award you won last year  ;)

A. It wasn't "one person", it was several.
B. All I said was I didn't think "All Round Good Egg Folkie" was really appropriate for the greatest folk-rock producer of all time.

"I changed the course of British folk and rock music, and they've given me an egg. Thanks."

I'll get my coat now!

Steady, Pet. We haven't had "of all time" yet. We've only had up to now.

And. "If if it hadn't've been Joe Boyd it'd've been someone else". (discuss)  :o

I think I said Joe Boyd as well. Not that it matters now.

Oh all right then, Greatest thingy wotsit up till now.

When we started the Hancocks we set them up as a Vote. We designed the process so that across the whole board, every single member has the right to choose who gets each award. We chose not to give Hancock awards out to anyone without that vote. After all, which individuals on this board have the right to select the winners of awards without asking everyone else?

We felt that presenting awards abitrarily for whatever reason would devalue the awards, whereas votes give the awards some meaning. Votes across the board membership say more about an artist than a decision from a closed committee. Radio 2 decides its winners by committee and we do not want to be like them. This decision has been vindicated by several of the recipients in 2006, for example in this post (http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?topic=14288.msg170155#msg170155) from John Spiers.

There are many people who, it could be argued, should receive 'honorary' Hancock Awards irrespective of a vote. In fact, a little time spent exploring the boards fully (for example, here (http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?board=50.0)) should make all members realise there are people who are much closer to the heart of Talkawhile even than Joe Boyd; people who, by the rights of this board, should receive a Hancock Award ahead of Joe.

I am certain that if we presented honorary awards to people close to Talkawhile without a vote they would be embarassed by them and would think we were being patronising or sycophantic. However if we presented awards that were won by a clear vote across the whole membership they would be thrilled and flattered.

Cheers

Nick

Actually I should think he'd be only too delighted to be called an All-Round-Good-Egg............. ;D

It currently sits proudly in our rehearsal room at my house, it doesnt need a polish!

 ;D

In order to give some of a us an opportunity to hear some of the musicians nominated for the Hancocks, I'm including as many of them as I can on the Brolly shows over the next few weeks, subject to permission, as always.
Sunday's show featured Judy Dyble, Karine Polwart and David Stevenson.
Still to come are Kris Drever, The Eighteenth Day Of May, Shona Kipling & Damien O'Kane and Nick Harper.
(And hopefully Steve Tilston, Martha Tilston, Julie Fowlis and Vin Garbutt.)
Also some David Hughes (for Anji).

Cheers,

Jules  :)

What an excellent idea and a blimmin' good service to the Talkawhile Voters.

You are a treasure and a fine fellow and I thank you.

Peel

Thanks Jules :D

Thank you again Jules - very much appreciated.

is the emboldened nominee the one in the lead or the one you voted for?
i think i know the answer really but it could be either or both..............

As I understand it, the up to two emboldened entries show how your votes are currently cast.

Quite right, Adrian.

It the one(s) you voted for.

fank-oo, 's'praps cos i only cast one vote in each..........that i got fuddled (a bit) :P

Are there plans to show the percentage of votes cast for each nominee in each category?

Getting back to the two votes thing, I can see that having two transferable votes could lead to tactical voting. Would it really be too difficult to have system where you vote them in order of preference (ie 5 points for first, 4 for second, 3 for third.....) with the nomination getting the most points being the winner? I'm only asking, honest, not being critical, honest. You chaps are doing a good job really, honest.  :)

Yep... When the results are announced in about 3 days time.



The board software is not that sophisticated unfortunately. When you set up a poll you can state how many selections each person can make but when voting there's no way to make a distinction between the selections (1st choice, 2nd choice, etc) - they all carry equal weight.

It would require a software modification to get it to do something different. I know its possible to add features to the board software (Colin has written much of what you see today) but from what I recall Polls are pretty well embedded in the board code (they're a core feature rather than an add-on) and it might be too difficult to make such a change without affecting the board's main function. Colin?  :-\

Cheers

Nick

Some things are fairly easy to change, in what's know as the 'Themes'. These are a set of templates, used to display all of the different pages. So for example I added the "you have x messages" at the top of most pages.
Other changes which are not quite as simple, are in the code that processes requests, when you press a button. For example checking the number of smilies in a post.

Changing the polls would involve changing the database, which to make things operate quickly, consists of over 40 cross referenced tables.

However the biggest problem is that it would make software upgrades incompatible.

Well you've got a year. Don't be so negative!  ;)

I know Pete, there's always excuses isn't there  ;)

Right have reviewed all my votes and am stickin with them  ^-^