TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

All the FC albums that have RT on them are widely regarded as FC's best. But does that mean that RT made Fairport good?? Discuss...

Oooooo, open that can of worms over there while you're at it Ollie - this one could run and run.

IMHO...

RT's a genius lyricist. (and guitarist and songwriter all round really)

But my favourite FC lineup ever (I think) is Simon, Maart, Ric, Peggy, DM
(Although I'd love to add Chris to that one if I could...)

another time, another place, another band.

time moves on and the music is just as good, just different

RT would would make anyone look good. The best line ups were those with Maart or RT in. They lack that cutting edge without the lead guitar but are still a great live band.

It is all a matter of taste I guess. Undoubtedly the early albums are the most critically highly regarded but I like stuff from almost every era of the band & whilst Full House is probably my favourite album & I love all RT's post Fairport work, there are non RT Fairport records (Angel Delight, Babbacombe Lee, Nine, bits of Gladys Leap, Five Seasons & WKWTTG for instance) that I prefer to much of Liege & Lief & Unhalfbricking.(I know. Heresy again! I like those albums too, just not as much.)

I personally find some of L&L a wee bit dreary. Stuff like The Deserter, Matty Groves and Reynardine.

That sounds like a back-handed compliment  :-\  

... along the lines of any time I've been on a quiz show it was to make the others look good ...

Matty Groves? Dreary?  :o ::)

RT didn't make Fairport good BUT IMHO he did make them exciting, especially when partnered with Swarb.

That is for me what the current line up misses - the musicianship is always great, the performances fine but lacking a certain excitement, the unknown factor which certain combinations of people bring to a party.

Richard's talent as a guitarist and band leader is that he is an exciting performer with an edge to his personality and charisma that comes through.

Jackdaw

Yes, RT is brilliant, but I don't think that you can say he made Fairport 'good' all on his own.

What would they have been in those years without Ashley's enquiring mind, Sandy's voice, Swarb's fiddle, etc, etc?

He was one member of a bunch of exceptional musicians producing great, groundbreaking music.

Good answer - Fairport have always been blessed with sheer musical ability beyond anything that yer Keiser Cheifs et al can even imagine in their wildest dreams. But RT, Sandy and Swarb are all world class no matter how you measure it. Did RT make Fairport Great? yes in my eyes, but they would be great nevertheless with a lineup including Sandy and Swarb.

I agree with most of the comments here but we must take into consideration the sheer talent in the current line up, especially Simon, who in my opinion is a greatly underestimated musician.
While his style may not leap off the stage at you he is a superb guitarist able to turn his hand to most things.

But hey, I enjoy all the fairport incarnations so what the hell do I know

nope.

Don't think I meant it like that . Doh!!

I personally find the L&L version dreary, the new live one is brilliant

I think he was there during a magical time when things were new. Everone was fresh faced and trying new things. RT added a voice or style to FC. But others have added their style as well. It is like a conversation. He was there at the beginning, but we are still talking. Without him, the talking still happens. He was just there adding his uniqueness at the magical beginning.

I can see why Ollie might have the views of L&L that he does.  

If Matty etc had not moved on and changed in 38 years why are we all bothering, hopefully the band believe that they do it better every time, if not why are they bothering.

But for those of us who heard that L&L line up there wasn't a weak link and interplay between all of them was thrilling both in terms of music and ideas.  Put into a context where we'd never heard anything like it so that the whole concept was so unexpected I can't imagine there'll ever be anything like it again.

It was as startling in its own way as hearing Sgt Pepper for the first time.

I do hope that current music will sometime deliver something like this for Ollie to remember in 40yrs time.

Back to the original question:

Yes.

What's next?

Horses for courses - The Deserter is my favourite track on L&L.

My own take on the question - RT *helped* make them great, but every good Fairport lineup has beena team effort.  Sandy and Swarb in particular areevery bit as legendary in my book.  Having said that, I still prefer 'the mothership' to any of the members' subsequent solo careers and later bands.  Including RT.

Jules

I think that probably is the key to it all; for me those earlier albums were the best but they were also very much of their time- an exciting period, not just musically, but socially, politicaly, even spiritualy. RT'S writing sort-of reflected the perhaps naive excitement of those days. Don't forget that Fairport started off, almost as a Dylan tribute band in those very early, heady days.

Congratulations on one of the finest, most articulate posts I have ever read on this board!!

The fans and Fairport having a 40 year convesation with folks stepping in and out, adding their opinions and moving on..

Fantastic  ;D

Jackdaw

Has any other band been blessed with so many genuinely influential figures? I doubt it. Ashley, Sandy, RT, Swarb, Iain Matthews, Mattacks, all made a huge impact on the music scene in their own ways.

Having said that, there's no doubt that whenever RT plays with them the whole thing goes up a gear.

Do you think that Fairport made RT good?

It must have helped his playing ability and songwriting to have spent his formative years with an excellent rythm guitarist, bass player, drummer, singer and fiddle player.

Paul

Good point, Paul. We are all only as good as the team we play in. Fairport have had some magical combinations of musicians over the years. Currently manifested in the wonderful interplay between two wonderful violin players of contrasting style.

Good point, Paul. We are all only as good as the team we play in. Fairport have had some magical combinations of musicians over the years. Currently manifested in the wonderful interplay between two wonderful violin players of contrasting style.

Agree wholeheartedly, not to forget the ( already stated somewhere in this thread) grossly underrated part of Simon Nicol.
But anyway, the current line-up is a cracking team and as a band more than the sum of the individuals.

Peter

Here here. These days I find myself, whenever listening to Fairport (with the obvious exceptions) very much focussing on Simon's guitar playing. It is completely inspired & inspiring to me. It's beauty is it's subtlety. It does not call attention to itself but if you took it away from any on the recordings they just wouldn't be the same. In some cases they may even fall apart.

Very true. That's why I mentioned rhythm guitarist in my list. Pity he doesn't write more as well.

Paul

Why thank you. May we continue our conversation with FC for many more years.