TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

How many versions of Sloth are there? I currently have four, the original, the airing cupboard tapes version, Cropredy 97 and Live Convention. How many more are there that aren't on boot? Which is your favourite?

Ollie

Sorry gower!

Well, I have 11 officially released versions. It takes about 2 hours & 50 minutes to listen to them back to back. Believe me, I've done it! My favourite? The one with both RT & Jerry Donahue contributing solos at Cropredy on The Cropredy Box or the really long one on The Boot.

The others are on Live, Before The Moon, Unconventional, AT2, The Other Boot, the RT box, The 25th Aniversary Concert (Cropredy 1992), Cropredy 2002 and of course Full House.

10!!!  :o Please tell me which CD's.

I only have three, but I'll second the version on the Cropredy Box.  Awesome stuff.

Have updated my post Ollie. Got it wrong first time!

With that many, they should release a 2-CD set of all the versions of Sloth, including a newly recorded version from Cropredy 2007. come on, they've got to do it haven't they! I mean, RT, JD, both Whishbone Ash guitarist (well, I think they're is still 2) and Marcos Rodriguez. I'm sure Ric would love to get his teeth into, maybe swarb, and chris (if he does, I dare someone to bet him that he can't slip a morris tune in there somewhere) That could last at least an hour.

Actually, I forgot two more from Cropredy Capers & House Full so we are over 3 hours now!

Is there a version on House Full? I have the 80's re-issue on vinyl and I don't think that it's on there. Maybe I should get it on CD. BTW, how long is the longest one?

Mine is the Hannibal re-issue from the early 90s. Haven't checked the latest version but I'm guessing it is on there too.

Overkill (and no, that's not a suggestion for the Motorhead song)!  Leave it to Richard and Jerry (although reminding Simon that some of his versions '77-'85 were great too wouldn't be a bad idea)...too many cooks spoil the broth and all that... :)

Maybe you are right, but a pinch of Marcos Rodrigez in that broth shouldn't be too much.

i dont know quite how many versions have been released officialy
but theres dozens of boots with sloth in all its many forms, it w3as after all a staple of the live set from Full House till the split

Not only is there a version on House Full, but there's a different version on the original vinyl version of the live 1970 material Live At The LA Troubadour.  I've yet to hear it, but I'm assured it's a totally different take.

Jules

The longest ones I have (two of similar length) are about 19 and a half minutes.

Having spat venom at Sloth in the past, I'm gradually coming round to the idea.  It is a good vehicle for improvs after all - I guess I just wasn't expecting to find that sort of thing around hereabouts (which is part, of course, of what makes Fairport so great).

I can only agree with letting Ric and Marcos have a go - that would be worth 20 minutes of my life. ;)

This Cropredy being my first in 20 years I´d be heavily disappointed should "Sloth" not be played with the above guitarists present. Somewhere I have a version, I think from Denver and the 75 Sandy-Trevor-Swarb etc.line-up, with a totally awesome, cruel and devastating bass part from our own Mr Pegg, not to mention the other solo´s.
I had an idea to get myself a CD with only "Sloth"s on it to play in the car to and from Croppers but I guess the family will kill me... ;D ;D ;D
Staffan

I too love the Denver version for the searing vocals on the chorus that include Sandy as well as the soloing by Jerry, Swarb and Peggy.

For all the wonderful virtuosity heard on this track over the years though, my favourite is still the orginal. Simon's under-rated rhythm playing has been mentioned a few times on this board and in few places is it more evident than on the way this song develops on Full House as the whole rhythm section vary and build the sequences beneath Richard and Swarb's playing. Magic.  

love that idea ... recently did one with loads of versions oh "Who knows ....." with various vocalists ..... sublime!

taken up your idea, and am now burning a CD with 4 Sloths, 3 Matties and 2 lots of Dirty Linen. Later I will burn a CD with some slower ones, methinks 4 Who Knows, 3 Meets, 3 Portmeirions, and maybe 2 Hiring Fairs

Thought I'd revive this thread since there's quite a bit of Sloth chatter going on over in the "When We Were Very Young" thread right now.  I'd like to suggest that if another box set of rare Fairport material comes out in the future, it should include the version of Sloth from Oslo 1975 (with Paul Warren on drums) that was left off of the Many Ears to Please CD due to time constraints.

I'm Pretty sure I've got 4 versions. The Full House version, The Cropredy 07 version, The Fairport unConventional version and The Live Convention version.

Funny, this may border on the blasphemous, but I think the original studio Full House is my least favorite of the versions I've heard (FH, House Full, Airing-Cupboard, Unconventional).  Of these, my favorites are actually the (surprisingly RT-less) Airing-Cupboard '71, with the excellent lead guitar by Simon Nicol, and the '75 (?) version on the Unconventional Box (same as the Before the Moon one?).  The latter has such interesting solos and great vocals all around....Trevor & Sandy sound awesome on it.

Would love to have heard that 2007 one with Richard AND Jerry.....

Try Youtube. ;)

The best version I ever heard was in a marquee at Thoresby in Notts in July 1979.

Swarb's fiddle solo as so hauntingly beautiful I will never forget it.

Sadly it wasn't recorded  :(

Was anyone else there?

I've got at least 9 Sloths - one day I will mix them all together into one giant sloth...

I think I have 19, all but one official releases (though it hadn't previously occurred to me that the Before The Moon and Unconventional versions might be the same recording. I must check that out). But I have none from the late 70s or mid 80s (without guests) line ups and I would dearly love some.

That was amazing.  As I recall (and someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) but it was the Full House lineup, aided by Jerry on guitar, Chris on vocals and fiddle, and Gerry on second drums (or possibly percussion?).  

Agreed. I would have happily paid more for a double-CD version, just to avoid losing that one track.

hear hear
and i would happily pay for a download of this version

Have you seen the shortest ever version on there? W. Linda Thompson on vocals, and Swarb so sure he wouldn't get time for a solo that he didn't even bring a fiddle along. (Always assuming he hadn't simply left it on a film set earlier that day or something...  ;D )

No. I wasn't there, but I do remember you mentioning this occasion on Talkawhile several times before Jen.  ::)

RT with Swarb last year my only live experience of Sloth. Mercifully, not too long either!

Indeed I have mentioned it before.. it was well worth repeats, lots of peeps won't know about it.

Wish it had been recorded...  Simon??

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RT with Swarb last year my only live experience of Sloth. Mercifully, not too long either!
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I just watched a youtube of one of these performances, and I may have a new favorite Sloth!  Beautiful.  Just the two men who wrote it, revisiting its jeweled caves as masters.  

Finally got around to your suggestion last evening!  Wonderful.  Everything I'd daydream a Cropredy Sloth to be....  Love that Swarb resurrects the psychedelic fiddle!

Was that the performance at 'Conkers'?

If so there were several TAWers there.. it was a bril night.. hard on the bum though  ;)

I'm sneaking in from work today ; ) so no youtube access at the moment, but I'll post the link once I'm home and see if you recognize it....  Conkers doesn't ring a bell, but then I'm not sure it actually identifies the venue.

And it was hard on the bum because....?  Hard chairs?  Cement lawn?  ;D

Tiered concrete type seating under a rather fine tarpaulin.. a very cold night i seem to remember.. i think we'd been warned and taken cushions.. still got a numb bum though... but WELL worth it!

Well done, I'd have happily braved mine!  The guys are wearing jackets, and it looks like a tarp, so maybe.....?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5PeOHJt7-c

Its a magical version...magical.

That's it!  24th July '09.. Conkers in Leicestershire.. what a great set they did, it was such a pleasure to hear Swarb sing again.
Diane was there as were clive, Tracy, Gower Flower and Zoe, Chris Bates... and a few more besides.

Thanks for the link  8) {:-)

My photos weren't up to much, but here's one anyway!

[attachment deleted by admin]

Fantastic....
More convinced than ever that a CD full of different "Sloth" versions from four decades would definitely be played rather often by me.

A multi disc Box Set?  There's probably at least 12 of us what would buy it  ;D

One of my favourites would be the Plainsong version available here for download here:

http://www.bluerose-records.de/

seems I have 17 officially released versions of sloth now on a playlist and it's an interesting journey.

Since we did the Many Ears To Please CD we have never spoken to Jerry, Peggy or Swarb about the Sloth version. Bear in mind that it is almost 21 minutes long. It's great, of course - but it hasn't been mastered like the rest of the performance. Some issues would have to be cleared before anything could happen. Besides, there's been so many retro FC releases that I would think they'd leave it for a while now. So don't hold your breath...   ;-)

Thor-Rune

Naaah, a few more, I´m sure....at least a score.... ;D

I´d better put together a personal one at home from the recordings I´ve already got. It´s nice to have an acoustic one - Swarb & Simon acoustic version is pretty good, too! - among all the electrical ones. But obviously the Oslo version is unlikely to see the light of day. But there are several others...  :D

Question about Sloth from Cropredy 1989 (the version on the Cropredy Capers box set) -- who played what?  The CD booklet lists the lineup as Nicol, Pegg, Sanders, Allcock, Mattacks, Swarbrick, and Thompson, but the back of the booklet also states that Jerry Donahue is on the track.  Someone is on keyboards throughout.  So help me fill in the blanks:

Nicol: guitar and vocals
Pegg: bass and vocals
Sanders: _____________ (fiddle or keyboards?)
Allcock: ______________ (guitar or keyboards?) and vocals
Mattacks: drums
Swarbrick: fiddle and vocals
Thompson: lead guitar and vocals
(Plus Jerry Donahue also on lead guitar?)

I believe I can make out Ric's distinctive "voice" on violin near the middle of the track, and if that's the case, Maart must be on keyboards.  Anyone know for sure?

From memory only (never very accurate) I think your conclusions are correct.  I can't remember whether JD was there or not.  

One of my favourite Cropredy's...Steeleye, All about Eve, a great RT performance and a storming Sat night set from the boys as I remember.

That was the year before I started going to Cropredy so I wasn't there, but Sloth that year was part of the RT mini set within the FC set.The Cropredy Capers book on page 113 doesn't mention Jerry although he's mentioned on the back of the cd.The same page lists the 1986 version as featuring both Richard and Jerry so I guess a mistake was made there.As it was RT's guest spot, I'd say Maart switched to keys to allow Richard to strut his stuff.
Scanning quickly through the track I guss the solos are DP bass, RT guitar and the last a Ric/Swarb duet.
Not enough guitar solos for Jerry and Maart to be on guitar too.

More "who played what" questions: what's the lineup for Sloth on The Other Boot (Cropredy 1986)?  Also, on the 2002 version, does Chris Leslie only sing or does he play an instrument as well?
 

I have been doing prep for a degree in Sloth this afternoon and evening.I have 18 official versions and 18 unofficial versions.
The official versions are:
Full House 1970 9.15
Live At The Troubadour 1970 (length unavailable at time of going to press)
House Full 1970 12.04
Airing Cupboard Tapes 1971 San Antonio 13.04 - Simon's last gig (for a bit anyway)
Live Convention 1974 11.31
Before The Moon 1974 13.34
Who Knows? 1975 18.15 - This is the version from Fairport Unconventional which is stated as being from 1974 on that.
AT2/The Boot 1982 16.35
AT2/The Boot 1983 19.29
The Other Boot/The Third Leg 1986 17.26 - As far as I know, this features Simon,Peggy,DM,Ric,Maart plus RT and Jerry.
25th Anniversary Concert 1992 12.22
The Cropredy Box 1997 13.06
Another Gig:Another Palindrome 2002 12.49
Cropredy Capers box 1989 19.25
A Box Of Pegg's box 1975 13.09
From Past Archives 1970 11.57 - Filmore West (semi official due to strange Italian copyright law, purchased from the      music tent at Copredy!)

RT box 1982 12.20 - Richard Thompson
Swarb! box 1983 8.24 - Swarb and Simon

Note that times stated on artwork often differ to those displayed by the actual CD player.
As for Chris playing on the 2002 version, maybe mandolin, but can't say for sure.

Live At The Troubadour 1970 12:18 (actual)

I have the exact same list except my Swarb & Simon version is from When We Were Very Young. Same performance?

I got my copy of From Past Archives from the same source too.

I haven't checked, but isn't the version on "L.A. Troubadour" different from that released on "House Full"?

yup, 12:17 & 9:17 respectively

Forgive me, but I'm not at all sure I understand this obsession with exact length.

Although I notice it's only chaps who seem to have this obsession ;)

Women too, but they pretend they don't.

I dearly wish that LA Troubadour version was available on CD.  Anyone here done a transfer from LP or cassette?

Jules

I'm working on that.Got a usb record deck - watch this space!

Do you mean House full live at the LA troubadour with Yellow bird on? if so yes......

No, same gigs, different album.  The initial LP was called Live At The L.A. Troubadour and included these tracks:-

Side 1
"Toss the Feathers" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)  (The Lark un the Morning Medley)
"Matty Groves" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)
"Bonnie Kate" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention / Dave Swarbrick)  (Actually a medley with "Sir B. McKenzies")
"Poor Will and The Jolly Hangman" (Richard Thompson / Dave Swarbrick)   (Actually the 1970 studio version with new vocals by Richard & Linda Thompson added in 1975, plus dubbed on applause)
Side 2
"Sloth" (Richard Thompson / Dave Swarbrick)
"Banks of the Sweet Primroses" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)
"Mason's Apron" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)  (actually a medley of "Jenny's Chickens / Mason's Apron" )
"Yellow Bird" (Marilyn Keith / Alan Bergman / Norman Luboff)

The House Full LP replaced that album and contained these tracks:-

Side 1
"Sir Patrick Spens" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)  
"Banks of the Sweet Primroses" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)
"The Lark in the Morning Medley" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)
"Sloth" (Richard Thompson / Dave Swarbrick)
Side 2
"Staines Morris" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)
"Matty Groves" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)
"Jenny's Chickens / The Mason's Apron" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention)
"Battle of the Somme" (Pipe Major Robertson)

This LP contains some tracks recorded at the same time as those issued on Live at the L.A. Troubadour and some that were actually released on that LP.

Track 2 is re-edited and remixed and is longer than the original version
Tracks 3 is re-mastered and listed wrongly as "Toss the Feathers"
Track 4 is a different take from that released on the earlier LP
Track 6 is re-mastered
Track 7 is re-edited and remixed and is shorter than the original version and is just listed as "Mason's Apron"

The CD reissue added the following tracks from the L.A. Troubadour LP:-

"Bonnie Kate / Sir B. McKenzies" (Trad. Arr. Fairport Convention / Dave Swarbrick)
"Yellow Bird" (Marilyn Keith / Alan Bergman / Norman Luboff)

Which left the long version of Sloth, the unedited Jenny's Chickens / Mason's Apron, and the faux-live Poor Will in limbo.  The Richard & Linda version of Poor Will did show up on the now deleted RT compilation (guitar, vocal), but the long Sloth and the unedited instrumental medley have never seen a CD release to my knowledge.

(Much of this info has been cut and pasted from Wikipedia.)

Jules

ahhh thanks Jules now I see! ::) :o

What's the story behind the title of this track, anyone?

Could it be that His Royal Thompsoness couldn't be harsed to think up an apt title?   ;)

Apparently so. The other track they were working on at the time, the slightly more sprightly one's working title was apparently "Fast-th". Seriously.

Interesting, in that the live 70 "Taverne de l'Olympia" performance on youtube is 12:17 when the halves are merged.  I've never heard the LP Troubadour version, but I'm assuming it's really from the Troubadour and not this one?  
Still, a little uncanny they'd be exactly the same length ~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG61mq9OXNQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwiuJtm-p1Q

"Fast-th" became Journeyman's Grace, I believe.

Jules

I've always thought that album, in it's various guises would be a sensible candidate for the deluxe double-CD treatment.

I second that emotion!

Jules

 it would all fit nicely on the one cd wouldnt it?

Always assuming there's not a vault of stuff that was recorded but never even released?  Though I guess it would probably leaked out at some point in the last 40 years.  Still, we can dream...

It's hardly the pinnacle of the Full House lineup, but you could add Sweet Little Rock 'n Roller (from Guitar/Vocal) to the list of stuff that's trickled out and could be included on a deluxe.  It is fun to hear the young RT belting out Chuck Berry (almost wouldn't recognize him?).

Yes, good idea.  And I'm sure there's more stuff on the tapes that hasn't come out.  I'm sure they could get a double out of it!

Jules

I always wondered if it was prompted by the quotation (probably mis- )attributed to Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

If you consider the fact that they changed the versions they used of some tracks between the various releases, it stands to reason that there's several choices for most of the songs. I think the problem might be what to exclude to keep it from becoming a triple CD.

Was the Linda Ronstadt guest appearance, or the appearance of Led Zeppelin (disputed?) recorded?  I'd shell for those.

Different folks say different things.  Swarb insists that the Led Zep set never happened.  Joe Boyd swears it did.  I've also heard a rumour that Peter Grant (Zep's manager) insisted on having the tapes from that night, so we'll probably never hear them.  Not sure about the Ronstadt set.

Jules

For those who are interested in obtaining the original Live at the L.A. Troubadour version of 'Sloth' on cd, you might want to check out the 2009 Japanese SHM-CD reissue of House Full. It gathers together all the tracks from both aforementioned releases, and comes in a rather nice mini-vinyl replica package, including reproductions of both sleeves. Also included, are a Japanese/English lyric sheet and the booklet with sleevenotes from the UK remaster.

Full details can be found at cd Japan (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=UICY-94000), although it is currently listed as out of print.

However, it is still available from Amazon.com and several of the other online cd import specialists. There is also one currently on eBay from a seller who appears very reliable (although I haven't dealt with them myself).

This re-issue was part of a series of twelve Fairport albums released on the new SHM-CD format last year. They look great, but House Full was the only one to include otherwise unavailable bonus tracks: the others mirror the UK remasters.

Hope this is of some help.

Thank you Simon - I had no idea!  I'll be after one of those for sure now.

Jules

So easily led astray when I should be working! Just ordered the Japanese SHM edition ( a different sort of plastic for the CD apparently) from Amazon.com for £24.

Incidentally, the copy on Ebay appears to be a standard Japanese issue and not the 'special' one with the bonus tracks.

There's more than one on eBay - always select the 'worldwide' filter and search everything, not just music.

I see a copy on Amazon.co.uk too which would come in at under £20.  I may hang around to try and snag one a wee bit cheaper.

Jules

You'll be doing very well to snag one of these for less than twenty quid. Unfortunately they don't tend to drop much in price due to being limited edition imports.

Incidentally, I've just noticed that the one on eBay is listed very badly; it doesn't even have the full album title. Search for "Fairport shm-cd" and look at the worldwide listings - it's £27.20 including postage from Japan.

It's always worth sourcing these from UK sellers if you can though, as it avoids any potential customs charges.

And I'm still seeing more than one copy on eBay!

Jules

I'm still only seeing one!

Are they all the SHM version with the orange obi strip down the left hand side? There was an earlier version with a blue obi strip, but it doesn't contain the bonus tracks.

If you're correct, I'd be interested to know who the sellers are, as I buy quite a lot of imports.

Edit - I've just spotted a second one...

Good.  I thought I was losing the plot!  Don't buy 'em all, Simon - leave one for me!

Jules

I thought I had bagged a reasonably priced copy of this from Amazon Japan last night. Then they wanted as much for p&p as the album cost, bringing the total charge above £40! I retired hurt.  :(

Sigh, one more item to track down....!  I won't compete with ye first-comers, but it's definitely on my list now (though these things have a tendency to gnaw at me until I give in ~ this happened with the "Fiddlestix" collection after I learned of the existence of "Days of '49").

I broke down and sprung for the Japanese Shm version of "Meaty Beaty Big & Bouncy" last year to get the long version of "Magic Bus."  Think I paid about $35 U.S. dollars on amazon, which I knew was silly, but was actually the cheapest I'd seen it and it really is a nice edition (LP-style gatefold packaging) and the dormant vinyl memories came flooding back as soon as I heard it.  

To steer myself back on topic ~ is it common pronunciational knowledge to the TWA'ers that "Sloth" rhymes with "growth" ?  I'd always assumed it rhymed with "broth," but on that youtube L'Olympia performance Swarb introduces it quite clearly as "Slowth."

Make that TAW'ers, sorry   :P    (I doubt many flight attendants are tuned in to this discussion...!)

Certainly none from TWA as they went out of business several years ago.

I know just how you feel.  It's gnawing away at me too!   :-\

Jules