TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

I've just heard that Clinton heylin's book on Sandy is to be republished and can be expected out sometime in August.

It's weird how everything Fairport related seems to happen in August!

 :) ;) :D ;D :o ::)

Jules

The title of this thread makes interesting reading.

Not a favourite book of mine.

Very smart, WW.  8)

Read your post last Jude, so when I got back from work work I re-read the part of the book in which you figure and given some of the authors comments, I am not suprised at what you said in your post.

I didn't wish to upset Jude.  In my defence I've yet to read the book.

Jules

I don't mind criticism (well I do, but I can live with it, ::)) but there are some unfair and as far as I am concerned, untrue statements in that book. :-\

Which of course then get used as fact.

This is only my opinion, but I think it is a deeply unpleasant book.

And no, I'm not upset by you, Jules or your mention of it's republishing, it's the book itself that upset me.

I'd recommend borowing it from a library and then deciding whether you want to buy it.

Crikey! That's fierce isn't it? :o

I won't do that Jude.
The fact that it has upset you makes up my mind about it

Not at all!  I guess it might be fierce coming from a sometime librarian though...  ;)  I say that in a takes one to know one way...being as how I'm a librarian....

 ;D

Jules

 ;D

And you'd think I'd know how to spell borowing wouldn't you? ;D



Oh dear me no FB, you should read it and decide for yourself, not just take my word... ::)

hey jude when are you going to do your story- an autobiography from you would make a fascinating read ;D ;D ;D

Seconded!

I've got bits of paper all over the place with beginnings.

The trouble is I get sidetracked and end up in dead ends (bit like my driving really)

I will probably one day. Possibly. When I get my memory back ;D

looking forwards to that day ;D ;D ;D ;D

Don't leave it too late. Memories fade before we are ready to forget them, sometimes.

You could get an emenuensis to do it. We did that for my Grandad (not that you're that old).

Doing it as an interview can get a lot more out that you would imagine.

Ditto. I've just found my copy of NMSR and there are some pretty unpleasant remarks. Don't really see the need to republish it as it only came out 7 years ago.

The first Fairport album remains a favourite of mine. I think it may even have been the first FC cd I bought. I'm sure if we drew up a list of overlooked albums it would be near the top. Some songs suit a more gentle vocal approach. Listen to a song like Decameron - beautiful.

Except that it became impossible to find and those of us who hadn't read it couldn't get it.

Jules

Yes, it does not seem to be available in any Massachusetts library - a bunch of other books by that author, but not this one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_/026-9562813-9074805?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=No+More+Sad+Refrains&Go.x=3&Go.y=11
Don't tell 'em I sent you!

Nah - too much to spend for a book of suspect veracity.

Crikey! I hope I don't get hit with a libel suit.... I'll deny everything........ :o

IANAL, but truth is always a defense to a libel suit.

I'll help you Jude! Something must have! Knock it out for August. "Clinton Heylin Wasn't Even There, He's An Arse!" by Judy Dyble and Cocker Freeman!

Snappy or what!

Very snappy.  Hmmm...I wonder what the book cover would look like....?  ;)

Jules

To be published simultaneously....

[attachment deleted by admin]

Dear me......... ::)

Snappy title all right...just rolls off the tongue!! ;D

does Clint still live in Sale?
if he does ill pop round and put a brick through his windows :o

And an original title too!  ;D

It's worth listening to Martin Carthy's comments about the book in the extras section of the Sandy documentary DVD. He doesn't spare the expletives when he talks about the author's comments about Trevor Lucas!

Dreadful book - dreadfully written and horribly twisted throughout. Heylin wrote a book about Van Morrison which was pretty repugnant as well. I mean Van ain't a saint but..... AVOID THIS NASTY BOOK LIKE THE PLAGUE!

Oh, Heylin... don't get me started...

Republication would have a point if he takes the opportunity to correct the numerous typos and malapropisms in his first edition, which seems to have gone straight from author's disk to print without editorial intervention. Whether he'll revise his opinions is another matter, as he's much in love with them. And since he doesn't answer readers' letters (not this reader's anyway) there's no scope for entering into debate with him.

I have reason to resent his monopoly position, having long wanted to do a book of my own on Sandy - more the music than the life, though of course you can't separate the two. But whenever I approach publishers or agents I get the same message: for a 'marginal' figure like Sandy the market can only support one book, and that book already exists - so forget it, chum.

I note this will the third opus he's published this year. He has already delivered a gargantuan history of Punk and a revisionist tome on Sgt Pepper in which he attempts to diss the reputation of the late Ian MacDonald, a writer of a style, wit and insight that Heylin can never hope to emulate.

As Jude says, borrow it from the library.

Philip

I've tried to track a decent biography / blog whatever you want call it about this chap and background via the interweb, but not had much sucess.  Is there a reason for his being reclusive?

the reason may well be that he is just a nomark hack

And not even a good one at that.

In his defence - his book on Dylan's studio session, Behind Closed Doors, is excellent.

Jules

As is his biography, Behind The Shades.

I read NMSR when it first came out and quite enjoyed it, if that is the right word given that it is a very sad tale. I don't remember feeling particularly aggrieved by anything and, of course, there is little other information out there to counter the assertions. Patrick Humphries' Fairport biography is painfully thin & superficial. To be fair to Heylin, he was handed someone else's manuscript that was deemed to be unpublishable and asked to make something usable out of it, so how much of what he says is actually his own personal opinion is open to question. Sorry Jude, not trying to diminish your feelings here. Just giving my instictive reaction to the book on an initial reading. I know more now so if I read it again I may respond differently.

I do wish though that somebody would really get hold of the whole Fairport (& alumni) story and do it proper detailed justice in book form. And I mean the whole 40 years. Yes it is a niche audience but it is a tale every bit as fascinating as that of more celebrated musical journeys such as those of Fleetwood Mac or Pink Floyd (for example).

Simon and Peggy should do a collaberation.

Our pal from DC spent a lot of time, effort and love on an independently researched biography of Sandy around the same time as Clinton Heylin was doing his thing. I'm a bit muddled about the reasons why HIS publishers beat up HER publishers in the race to the finish, but sometimes life is not fair. I have a copy of her manuscript here on this desktop: it reads to me more of the woman I remember but I am not in the position to disseminate it: maybe in the interest of balance it might one day become available.
Her web contact is http://www.rambles.net/pamela_winters.html and her name is Pam.

I believe that that one was available on the net for a while, but no longer.  Shame.  I'd love to read it.

I know that Matty Grooves are a record company, but Woodworm published books, could Matty Grooves publish this one, maybe next year for the anniversairy?

No they can't.  There are legal complications, as Simon said in his post, he is not in a position to make the document public.

Yes, and so say many of us.

 :(

Jules

A slight correction, Simon. As far as I know, it was one publisher all along: Helter Skelter. They parted company with Pam and then commissioned Heylin to do his book instead. The publisher's version of events is given here:
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=18994
Pam gives her thoughts here:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SandyDennyList/message/3402
It's evident she still feels very wounded by the whole business.

Philip

Sounds like there's a lot of conflict there, the publisher says the book was rubbish and more about Pam than Sandy, both the publisher and the author say that they terminated the contract, not the other party.  I don't want to comment on public grief more than to say that the picture presented is very confusing.

Simon says it reflects the woman he knew and that's good enough for me. Personally, if anyone has the pdf and wants to smuggle it to me, you know my email address.

[cough] samegoesforme [/cough]

Jules

I have an html version of the book taken from the web (I don't think it is still available there though), and I'd be happy to pass it on to anyone, if it isn't illegal to do so.  Perhaps someone can let me know what the legal situation is.  When I downloaded it, it was still in the public domain (ie. on the internet)...

just do it and we promise not to tell the cops
ok?

It isn't available any longer, and that is the stated wish of both the author, and one person very much mentioned in the 'book', who has previously taken legal action to prevent it being circulated, citing the libel laws.
The wishes of these people are still current.

Point taken.  I withdraw my offer.

Nevertheless, Chris, it's out there on the net, just behind a few curtains is all. I think the stable door was ajar for too long.

Indeed it is i downloaded it about 10months ago- but now i can't remember how i found it! ;D ;D

With respect to Jude I will be trying to get hold of this as I'm keen to read more about Sandy. I will approach it with caution though.

Shame there are no other sources (apart from the articles on the web) on Sandy's life. She deserves more.

I'm a newbie here so this is a VERY cheeky request..........

If anyone could kindly point me in the direction of decent stuff on Sandy's life on the web or elsewhere I'd appreciate it.

 

Welcome, Rog. Not sure what articles on the Web you've seen?

One good biographical source that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the long article by Jim Irvin. This appeared originally in Mojo, June 1998, with a revised version in the booklet for A Boxful of Treasures (great 5-CD set well worth getting hold of). Most of the text is on the Web at:
http://club.telepolis.com/sandydenny/Albumes/librosangelofavalon.htm
http://club.telepolis.com/sandydenny/Albumes/librosangelofavalon2.htm

Irvin has a revealing postscript where he explains that, when he originally published, he had to soft-pedal Sandy's relationship with her mother out of respect for her father, who was still alive in 1998. Her later biographers have felt no such constraints.

There's also quite a bit on her in the first volume of the Ashley Hutchings biography (by Hinton and Wall).

Thanks very much for that, interesting stuff. I hadn't seen it before, hard to say what I have seen: mainly the stuff on Uk fan sites (including a blog by PM Ward - coincidence?  ;D -), that article contains stuff I've not seen such as the personal details and the best description of how & why the splits and reformations occurred.

Any other pointers gratefully received.

Complete aside, glad to see the 30th anniversary of Sandy's death is being talked about, at least. I was concerned it'd pass unmarked. It'd be great if there was a concerted search for the archive footage and performance tapes that must be out there somewhere