TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

An interesting topic of discussion 'borrowed' from the BBC Discussion Board.  What do you think?

The originator says:

"I've just got the dates for Fairport's lengthy winter tour. While I'm pleased to see that they're playing near me, I do wonder sometimes.

So far this year we've had the Winter tour, some Spring dates, warm up dates for Cropredy, Cropredy itself, the Autumn acoustic tour that's just finished, and they're off again in January.*

Plus of course most of them have side projects.

Last time I saw Fairport they sparked intermittently, mainly on less usual or new material, but a lot of the time seemed to be a bit jaded and running on autopilot.

I can't help thinking they'd do a lot better to cut their touring right down, and give themselves time to recharge their batteries and have a chance to get excited about spending time producing good new material.

After all, for example Richard Thompson performs far less but is far more compelling when he does."

(*She or he left out the Fairport and Pegg birthday concerts in Birmingham).

Can one get too much of a good thing?   From my point of view, there has been a noticeable decline in the excitement and anticipation of, for instance, a Winter Tour over the past few years - perhaps this trend towards constant touring is the root cause?
Is the poster right - can one get too much of a good thing?  
Is it a good thing or is less, more?  

The BBC Board is  here  (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825)

Simple fact is Fc Cds sell fairly low numbers, and the guys need to make a living - they do that by touring. Every day spent at home is a day not putting bread on the table I would suggest.

Jackdaw

At the moment their recognition is probably at a higher level due to the 40th birthday celebrations this year, so cash in whilst you can, FC.

At some point, however, I do think they'd benefit from not doing seemingly everything in sight, individually and collectively. I think Fairport suffer overall as a result. One example is the website, which I think is being tended on automatic. I find it less and less easy to find my way around it. Another is the nightly setlist, which I think needs a good refresh and clearout.

I understand that they're working stiffs, like most of us, so have to get income when they can. So it's truly a dilemma I do not envy them.

However, I must admit that, after Croppers 2007, which was a fantastic experience, I'm not inclined to go see them until next August!

An interesting point - I hadn't thought about it before.
I know I didn't feel particularly disappointed that the autumn tour didn't come near me but I would have gone if it had.
I admire their stamina on the tours but on the other hand time spent in the studio etc producing a really exciting new album might get me buying their CDs again.

I suppose I'm on the fence as usual.

He plays less dates in the UK but if you look at his web site you'll see he's touring the US from December to February.

Presumably Fairport's main audience is in the UK so it's not surprising they tour so much, mainly in England. One reason I never saw them live until this year is that I've lived in Scotland for most of my life and Fairport don't play north of the border much which I always thought was a shame. If you look at a band like Runrig they seem to do fairly regular tours of England. Maybe Fairport have had bad experiences in Scotland in the past!

As for recent and upcoming tours I saw them in Morecambe but it's unlikely I'll go and see them on the next tour. As long as they're not playing the same venues on each tour and they're enjoying being out on the road, then why not?

There is a difficult balance to this discussion.

I saw Fairport at Southport but didn't buy a ticket until the last minute - actually twenty minutes before the gig as at the time I was a shift worker and couldn't plan too far ahead and it was only that they played on the day the local paper came out did I remember about the gig. As noted above the Southport Arts is relatively small which asks the question whether my being able to buy a ticket so close to the show means they tour too much.

I went to Cropredy and thoroughly enjoyed it, as anyone who saw my dancing to Jools Holland will attest, but as noted elsewhere this lead to a certain amount of dissonance as to whether to go and see The Richard Thompson Band at the Liverpool Phil. I went to this as I was unsure as to when Richard Thompson would play locally again but with Fairport there is a 'I'll catch them next time they're around' ness as to whether I'll go and see them, which is a shame.

There is often talk of the Fairport Family and my concern is that a Fairport gig could become something attended out of duty rather than genuine affection. The comparison I am making is that Cropredy is a major family event whereas Fairport on a frosty February Friday is like taking Sunday tea with your Grandmother - something done out of duty with the prospect of gaining a small reward for attending,  something you won't miss until it's gone. The language used has promoted this with Cropredy being described as a Reunion.

I get the impression from TAW that some people would go to the ends of the earth to attend a Fairport gig. This is not a criticism just a reflection on how much time and emotion people appear to put into attending the gigs. Fair play to them. I know people go and meet up with friends, old and new to be saccharine for a moment, and long may it continue and as long as the band are making enough money to make it viable good luck to them.

That Fairport can still tour after so long is a credit to them and is probably a result of the other projects with which they are involved. As long as they do not become a parody of themselves. Simon Nicol is often heard to say something along the lines of 'We're not a tribute band we're the real Fairport Convention'. As long as they can keep it real keep going.

Or has the original poster at the BBC got a point when s/he alludes that it is a career that has become a job?

I must say I enjoy the contrast between watching them in a (sunny?) field  Cropredy and the beating my way through a blizzard to the warmth of a theatre for the winter tour. The winter tour has become a regular event in my calendar and makes my February  (mind you I am a bit mental  because I did manage to see them six times in 2005 and the rule of diminishing returns didn't even begin to kick in !)

Not only do they tour a lot, but they seem to find room for many side projects as well.  Peggy and PJ, The Aggies and The Dylan Project to name a few...

That's a very good point.  I hadn't seen Fairport for five years when I went to Canterbury last year.  That break certainly did me good as a punter, and I thoroughly enjoyed the gig.

I don't know if "duty" is the right word ...... maybe "habit".  I had certainly got that way with Cropredy and it actually came as a shock to me to realise that, after 24 consecutive years, I was bored with the festival and really not enjoying it.

On the other hand, the band needs to do what it needs to do to make a living, and if that is touring and getting an income from it, then so long as they are selling tickets - good luck to them.

I don't know whether they tour too much - it's a tough question because as mentioned they rely on it for a living. I do think they need to have a a rethink regarding material though.

I remember my first FC gig... Southport Ats Centre in 1991 - amazing lighting and a huge amount of energy and enthusiasm. It was such an amazing experience! Sadly the last few Wintours have seemed a little flat.

I still love going to FC gigs but I have to wonder how much of that is the meeting up with friends and the family feeling. I do still enjoy the musical aspect but not as much these days.

I think some of the material has become stale and over used. I personally think that there's a little too much of the Chris Leslie material - don't get me wrong, I like some of his stuff and he's a really nice chap but it does seem to add an element of "tweeness" to the proceedings. I much prefer the spankier stuff and the daft thing is I reckon Chris would rise to the challenge admirably if he had the chance.

The energy and enthusiasm seems to have dwindled a bit - I know they're not exactly spring chickens but they're hardly past it either - Saturday in Brum proved that they're still capable of pulling off a blinding show. Perhaps that's because it was a different sort of gig, after all doing the same sets night after night with all the travelling about must be exhausting.

The lighting is usually poor these days too which is a downer on two levels... Firstly and most importantly it's just not as atmospheric, and secondly as someone who really enjoys taking photos but does so without the use of flash it's a real pain to get decent pics. I realise that the cost implications of taking a lighting rig on tour are probably prohibitive these days but I really miss that aspect of things.

The only answer really is in the sale (or not) of tickets.

If the general public (I'll call 'em GP from now on) thinks this is so, then ticket sales will drop, if not, they'll hold up.
Admittedly, there is probably a small hard-core that will need to get completely fed up before they'll stop buying, but in general, the GP will talk with their feet and stay away if they've had enough of the constant touring.

IMO, I think I saw more GP on last year's wintour than the year before.

Re the acoustic line-up, I think they'll find it harder to actually land gigs as they're an expensive item for promoters in a smaller space if this were true....so it'll regulate itself more or less. This might be one reason for the 'why aren't they playing in my area' grouch we've started seeing on the acoustic tours.

Re the RT point - that poster is obviously very UK-centric & doesn't watch RTs gig page. I reckon he has more dates than Fairport do in any 12 months....

If i was i their position, i would keep going and play as much as i could, whilst i still could. They're doing something they love. If you love something, why not do it as much as possible?

People still flock to see them, and report back that they've had a wonderful night. And they're still picking up new fans, both young and old, so i think even if the regulars get fed up, there will always be people wanting to see them.

They're fantastic musicians and their stuff sounds better live, so I think the frequent touring is one of the BEST things about Fairport.

I've said the same thing myself elsewhere on this board, even though some of it is growing on me now, I agree with your sentiments.

DC

While I can agree with the twee element of some of Chris' material, although in particular I do enjoy My Love Is In America, I seriously doubt if you would have that opinion if you lived anywhere but the UK. In fact I haven't checked but I'm guessing you do. As you probably know we don't even get the full Fairport over here and it is at least 15 yrs since I can recall seeing them electric, in the Maart days.

If they still had a sense of spontaneity in the set list of the tour this would not be so important a question. With very minor changes you are probably seeing on the first night what you will see on the last night, other bands who tour a lot usually have a much more changing set list with room for improvisation, this has now sadly gone from the Fairport repertoire to be replaced with a much more safe approach to touring.

This however is obviously what the customer wants though so it is what we/well you receive, or the tours would not be so successful.

If "career" is "the work you do because you enjoy it" and "job" is "the work you do because you need the money", Fairport are in the happy position of having the two coincide. As far as I know, none of them are independently wealthy and expect that, like most bands, they make the majority of their income from touring rather than CD and merchandise sales (and that much of those are made via touring too). They NEED to tour.

Those of us who go to almost every FC Family event they can reach for a whole slew of reasons are a very small minority. The majority of people at most gigs seem to come from no more than an hour's travel away, go to at most two FC gigs a year, thoroughly enjoy the experience, and sometimes make new converts by bringing friends and offspring.

As Chris says, the touring is self limiting. If they over-fish, the yield will drop.

As for the Acoustic / Full band, over here / over there and lighting things, it is in the end all about money. The bigger the band, the more the kit, the more attachments, the further the distance, the more the costs mount up, with bigger audiences and venues needed to make a profit. I suspect that the audiences are not there.

Studio time is (eye wateringly) expensive too, as are the costs of producing CDs with quality artwork and packaging, and you generally incur all of these before you try to start selling the result. I expect to see more "if enough of you pay up front we'll produce a CD / box set" (Peggy in a box, Mostly Autumn's latest and Mutant Cabaray to name but three). Who knows, Fairport might try this too. There is also the well timed initially available by download only approach.

That FC have survived as a working band demonstrates that that they have become good at walking the knife edge. Long may they continue.

I have seen Fairport three times this year - winter tour, Cropredy and acoustic tour - and the performances were all very different, so no, I don't think they tour too much. Nevertheless, a set list which varied from night to night would be very exciting for us and I'm sure, for them.  This is what I said in a different thread about a year ago ...

Why not play stuff from the new album in the first half and then for the second, pull from a hat, songs which the audience have nominated during the interval?  Very exciting for us and very scary for you!  And only about 300 to rehearse ...  ;D

On a more practical note, maybe you could limit the choice, a tear-out voting slip inside the programme, we could pay a pound for every try and the money could go to a charity.  A bit gimmicky, I suppose, but it would tick a few boxes. :-\  

From comments made by some members in the lead up to the Liege and Lief performance at Cropredy this year, it seems that most of the back catalogue would not actually require a huge rehearsal time (apologies for underestimating them) and if a bit of improvisation is needed ... even better!

I must admit to feeling slightly sated during this 40th anniversary year - but no-one forced me to go.  :P Maybe I was expecting more variation because of the anniversary?

I think that touring is almost certainly the bedrock of their income, and if they have the will and the stamina to continue, then so be it. :D

I shall certainly be at Pontardawe Arts Centre in February in any case. 8)

Show of Hands tried that once. Unfortunately, they forgot to tell the audience that it would be preferable that they were songs they actually knew. Some guy asked for Paranoid by Black Sabbath! Be warned!

Back OT, not sure if this has been mentioned, sorry if it has, but I think Simon once said words to the effect of "Fairport are primarily a touring band. We only go into the studio if we have time" I think that it's great FC tour so much. At least we don't have to wait for a new album to come out and then all pack into 6 of the 'big sheds' around the country, like some bands. And ticket prices aren't extortionate.  

We saw them at the ICA this year, and enjoyed the closeness, but weren't impressed by the material. From now on it's once a year at Cropredy unless they bring out a truly stunning album - or have David Hughes as support again.

It would be great if FC did a sort of 'Backlog' tour, like SoH, where they delve into songs that haven't been played for a while (in this case Maart era and pre 79) but done with the current line up, obviously.

Do you know, my daughter and I were just having this very same conversation! :o

I think we are going to draw up a list of material not heard in a long time..... ::)

Well you never know. Someone might be listening. LOL!

I'm with you on that one! I love the Maart stuff and it would be great to hear some of the less used material from yesteryear

Sigh Beg Sigh Mor
Innstuck
Gold
Ginnie
Honour And Praise
The Islands
She’s Like The Swallow
Red Tide
Men
Frozen Man
Lalla Rookh
Struck it Right
Dark Eyed Molly
Summer Before The War

How can you tell I just scrolled through my ipod? ::)

John Barleycorn
Reynard the Fox
Flatback Caper - poss 3 mandolins!
How Many Times
Bridge Over the River Ash
Bird from the Mountain
Royal Seleccion No 13 (preferably with certain amounts of helium involved  :D)
Flowers of the Forest
Farewell, Farewell
Sir B. McKenzie (Live 74 version)
Surfeit of Lampreys
Sigh Beg Sigh Mor
Fiddlestix
Sloth (SN-Electric guitar, CL-Bouzoki [sp], Ric-fiddle, Peggy-bass, Gerry-drums. It would work!)
Lalla Rookh
The Frozen Man
Ye Marniers All
Rubber Band (lol  ;D)

I'll stop there...

Oh now I agree there! I would LOVE to see them supported by David Hughes.

Me too - I think I did something like 7 dates on that tour and it was fantastic  ;D

Of course, they'd have to come and play somewhere within 50 miles of Cardiff ...  ;)

Tour all they like so long as..... Rickenbackers.... Gibsons... Gold Grover tuning pegs... Les Pauls... no Chris Leslie songs... Play together... ensemble... Folk ROCK.... Jam...

Fully agree. The albums are just added value to sort of rekindle the fire back home.

I recall that on the Farewell Tour they commented that they had had to go back and listen to the old LPs to re-learn some of the older songs from the repertoire, and now they have an additional 30-years'-worth of material to choose from! Much more old stuff please!

Btw we've seen them six times this year (2 x Wintour, 2 x Cropredy (Fri & Sat), FAC and Peggy's Party), and we're already looking forward to Feb 08 - not sated at all, but more old and less new, please.

DC

Interestingly, I've seen Show of Hands 6 times this year, each time a completely different event (except for 2 festivals).  How?:
Winter tour (Cheltenham TH), FC special guests at B'ham, RAH, 2x Festivals (Cropredy and Shrewsbury) and the recent backlog tour.  I won't be able to get to any of the Concert Tour gigs, which are different again.

With the exception of the 2 festivals, each of those gigs/events was completely different from any of the other gigs, especially the backlog tour.

Would I go to see FC if they did something similar?  Yes, and I do.  Winter tour - Bham and Tewkesbury, Cropredy, I didn't see the acoustic tour due to a conflict in dates (they were local the week I wasn't), but I would have. If FC did a Backlog type tour would I go to see it? Yes.
Do they tour too much? No, as long as they offer something different each tour. However, do they offer enough differences between tours? No.

Just my tuppence.

I was going to make this exact same point (different gig, same era) but you have beaten me to it.

Don't get me wrong, I love them and will be there on the Winter Tour as I always am but for the most part things have become altogether too cosy both live and on record during the last 10 years or so. I was pleased to see a bit more spark on the last Winter Tour and more rock in the folk rock equation but that has been an exception in recent times and a lot of the excitement of the live show has dissipated. Personnel aside, there is actually little difference in the feel of much of the Wintour material and the acoustic shows. It has all become a bit routine but I keep going in the hope that one night they will take my breath away the way they used to and the way they still regularly do at Cropredy. I fear that may not happen unless they once again inject a bit more electricity into the line up. The last time that really happened was on Chris Leslie's first official tour with the band. He played an electric something on that tour (not sure that it was a guitar as such) and they performed barnstoring versions of stuff like Spanish Main.

I really can't have any view here since they more rarely come the Scandinavia way, and here I must put the blame on ourselves and our local organisers and venues. I'm sure FC would like to do foreign tours should they just get offered the opportunity and the working conditions were decent.
  But I thought the "Backlog" idea was a really good one. An idea that might spark new energy into the group, should they need it, (which I honestly don't think) but above all into the audience, which is us.
 

I like many of the old songs (more than like, actually), but don't those of you who are suggesting the "Backlog" idea think that that is a sure-fire way to turn the band into exactly what they DON'T want to be: a tribute band....?

I think there's a distinction between doing back cat songs and tribute bands though - Tribute bands tend to perform *other people's* material. Also they don't have to do *all* old stuff but more of a mix would be nice

I was thinking that and in a lighter-hearted thread names for the tribute group were offered.

As I've said elsewhere once, just once, if Matty Groves kept his pants on it may not signal the end of a concert. I liked the lego at Cropredy but know that was met with mixed emotions.

Musicianship and anthemic songs are one thing but I wouldn't pay the best part of thirty quid they wanted to see The Austrialian Pink Floyd in Southport.

As I said above as long they are not a parody long may their passion shine.

I don't mind what they play, to a certain extent, I would just like to see it performed with a bit more fire and perhaps find or create new material that can stand alongside their first 30 years rather than continuing the long slow drift towards easy listening.

But we do have to remember they aren't getting any younger (sorry chaps!)

But we do have to remember they aren't getting any younger (sorry chaps!)
[/quote]

No offence taken.

Tribute bands tend to play material exactly as it sounds on the album. Real bands (such as Fairport) are continually re-interpreting their own back catalogue.

Bands who sound exactly the same as they did thirty years ago end up in Las Vegas.

Sadly neither are any of us :)

They don't tour too much. Modern bands are just lazy. Keep touring I say.

Yes - Keep on turning the wheel, in fact.

live music at its finest - as many gigs as poss please  :-*

IMHO FC is far from being a parody of themselevs.

They work with their back catalogue in a very responsible and sensitive way. They are not re-forming the whole thing (and better so) but just change fragments of a song or on a bigger scale the intro.
Look at the Stones or even worse Status Quo. There you do have the one and very same version of a song on and on and on. You are not in for any surprise when visiting a concert - neither negative nor positive.
That for sure is different with FC.

My Fairport phase startetd somewhere in the dim & distant past and some years later on (1984 to be precise) I enjoyed my first Cropredy.
It is with that past on my back that I dare say I like today`s FC more than their 70`s "entity".
But - and this is a big but - it is because of the broad mixture they are delivering today. A fair share of the past and an even better share of today`s songs, of new songs.

Hope this wasn`t too much gobbledygook.

So, on we go and long may FC run - touring and "studio`ing" ;D

Peter
   

There's no pleasing some people.

Apart from Status Quo who haven't had much success in the States.

Anyone see the interview with them in last Saturday's Guardian mag?

Fairport haven't toured this part of the planet since 2002 - and this specific part of it since 1999.  Not that they don't want to, I know, it's more financial considerations.

So to those who think they're touring too much  :o  - a) not here they're not, and b) don't complain, and please don't take for granted!  You may be more fortunate than you realise.

I suspect you have summed it up rather well, fstix.  :D {:-)

Mind you, we don't see too much of Angry Anderson in this part of the world either! Or The seekers for that matter.  ;D