TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

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Please use this thread to talk about the Hancock Awards in general.

Cheers!

When it says "the nominations for this award so far, are" - who has decided this?

Sorry, it's me again. Why no category for "Best Singer"? Seems odd, when there's a best musician.

We always start with the nominees from the BBC award ...

You might find the answer to that question here (http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?topic=25664.msg322033#msg322033)  ;)



 ::)  :-[ Oops! There is now...

Cheers

Nick

I'd like to take issue with this, I value this forum and these awards. I hope my objection will be taken seriously, unlike my post in the 'Best Live Act' thread which was deleted.

Strictly speaking, I didn't comply with the instructions. I nominated the Imagined Village and said 'read the reviews on the eponymous thread' - that was all I said. I didn't add any 'wit or wisdom' as I thought members here had summed up how brilliant this act are - particularly Sir Robert Peel's post - I'm not going to try to better his review - I can't, so I wont try. If I can't summon up anything new or funny in my nomination am I just to shut up or risk my post being deleted? Are only the most eloquent allowed to nominate?
I know for a fact some people on these boards withhold posts for fear of being 'moderated' I think this is a terrible shame.

Anyway, I'm not going to storm off in a huff, I think I was a bit harshly moderated, but I'm not roarin' and greetin' about it, I just wanted to raise the point that moderators may be fallible too.

Not true.
Very, very few posts on this board are moderated. Looking at the logs, a week can easily go by without a post being deleted.
However I did plough in to the Hancock nominations, because it's just one area where I feel that people could make an effort to run to more than one sentence.

Look at the latest posts in these topics. Good aren't they?

That's not what I'm saying, and for the sake of this wonderful enterprise I won't bang on any more about it





Yes they are

As a general comment...



Yes. It's a discussion board!

If you like an act, say why. If you don't agree with what someone has proposed, say why. At the end of the day it will be the eloquence with which cases are presented and argued that will be the deciding factor, whether that eloquence is for or against.

Cheers

Nick

Can you settle another query - whether an act can be nominated more than once within the same award? For example, the Imagined Village in Best Traditional Track....

Personally, I don't know.

There's one argument that says we should have a variety of nominations from a variety of sources. There's another that says that a Various Artists album is by definition from a variety of sources.

I would throw this one open for discussion. We can also see what other nominations are made. After all, it is the eloquence of the nomination and the debate that follows that matters most.

Cheers

Nick

The only thing I would also add to this question is -

If you allow it, what prevents one artist being nominated multiple times?

Nothing, in my opinion. If they deserve to be included so be it.

It's up to others to nominate alternatives and argue the case for them, surely.

Possibly a reason for not doing so would be that it would potentially split a vote that would have otherwise meant that a particular artist would have won.

This will lead to a loss of credibility....

If one artist has produced 5 tracks, each of which is argued by the board to be deemed to stand head and shoulders above all else that has been released this year...

If no-one makes the case for any other act over and above any of the 5 tracks from that artist...

... then why should that artist not have 5 tracks nominated?

Some artists have multiple nominations in different categories. Is this the same situation or different?

Like I said, I don't know the 'right' answer to this one but I shouldn't have to. The point is, it is a debate!

It's down to board members to say who or what we should vote for - who we should add to each vote and, if desired, who we should remove. If a decision is split for one artist at the end of the nominations then that will be because it was the will of the board.

Cheers

Nick

That wasn't my intention at all Chris I was just suggesting a reason why people may choose not to make multiple nominations.
More difficult is the removal of nominations from those pre selected. I don't imagine arguments such as 'never heard of them and what is on Youtube/Myspace doesn't seem much cop' will be very effective but it seems a shame that when a number of other artists are argued for eloquently they are fighting for just one slot.
I don't know what the answer is and despite this I am very glad that we have the opportunity to do this at all. Thanks to all those involved

rachel

The idea of proposing the removal of an artist from the pre-selected set came from Dave Delarre in another thread. I can think of three reasons why you might do this:

The nomination doesn't qualify (Dave's argument, and also an argument that ran last year re a Seth Lakeman song)

There is a better alternative from the same artist (and you don't want to split the vote)

The pre-selected nomination is not as strong as your own nomination

And yes, these are difficult arguments to put forward ... but we're talking out our specialist subject here. We come to Talkawhile to talk about the music and with the Hancocks it's up to us to say what it is that we like.

Cheers

Nick

Are we having a Lifetime Award this year??

Did we ever?

There is room for Life Time Achievers in the 'Good All Round and Quite Splendid Egg'.

Didn't we have one last year.. or have I totally lost the plot??

Are you thinking of the greatest folk track ever?

Have you checked the Hancocks 2007 board?

Duh... no I didn't.. guilty as charged.. it's been a 'funny' day!!

Is it me or is there a lot less chatter and nominations this year?

Actually there have been far more posts. It's just that we've been more active in removing the 'me too' posts and encouraging reasoned nominations.
If you read through all of the posts, you will see that people are really making an effort.

Sorry YaBb a clumsy attempt to get others to respond and get involved. There just seemed to have been less posts than in previous years. Glad its my memory thats going then  ;D

And yes I can see that people are really making an effort, I was just trying to get others to get involved  ;) ;D [;-) 8)



Edit: At this point, the nominations were closed and the voting began

Hello,

I was just wondering if anyone knows if there's any way to see how many votes have been cast so far for the nominees in each category - or do we have to wait until the vote closes?   :-\  :)

Naomi

You have to wait until the voting closes - that way there cannot be "tactical voting".

I wonder if I'll be alone in voting for only one nominee in each category.  :-\

You can change your vote, Martin.

Click 'remove vote' and then vote again.

Hopefully, people will do this in response to some good points or persuasive arguments.

I doubt it Martin. There are a couple of categories where I don't feel able to vote for more than one, and at least one where I will have to find out more about the artists before I cast a vote.

Can anyone please tell me, to save me wading through,  ::)  was it ever discussed about Chris While with her stunning voice and performance at Cropredy with the Liege and Lief set?

I think she so deserves an award, is this all too late or did she get one last year?  ::) I want to vote for her you see.....sheer class!



Sorrry...I know, too many questions but some clever clogs will know!  ;)

J

Unfortunately Chris While was not nominated by anyone this time around. It's often the case that it's too late before you remember who you wanted to propose...

Mind you, she won a Hancock together with Julie in 2006 and this year St Agnes are in the running for Best Live Act so she has not entirely missed out.

Cheers

Nick

Picking up on Goatboy's comment - why not allow people to cast two of their votes for one candidate in two vote polls if they so choose? It would allow one to personally differentiate between "like this one, don't know the others" (1 vote only) and "like this one far more than the rest" (2 votes).

(OTOH, any software change request, no matter how impossible, is "simply a matter of programming" to the requestor.)

I've had a look and there are several problems.
The first is that the software is written so that if you edit your vote, you have to enter all of them again and you can't tick the same box twice. This would be a major change.
It would also mean changing the main code, rather than a template and it would be overwritten when there's an update.

It would also lead to more tactical voting.

I've heard a related comment: "Why not allow us to indicate 'First Preference' and 'Second Preference' in the vote?"

This too would require a re-write of the board software, first to let a priority to be set by the voter and then to allow the counting system to understand what the priorities mean. Tricky stuff, unfortunately.

Cheers

Nick

I'm disappointed that Benjamin Zephaniah didn't qualify for consideration in the Best Traditional Track. My impression was there was plenty of support (and dissent) for his nomination.

I don't know about others here, but I thought the BZ track was not so much a traditional song as a very original one.

Could this not be done quite easily in the future by simply having each artists name twice in the poll? It wouldn't be quite as pretty or clever, but surely it would have the same effect?

Much of the discussion was about whether the track was Traditional or Original. In the end, after a lot of debate, we decided that it was better listed as an Original Song rather than as a Traditional Track.

We decided to move the support for the track across to the Original Song debate which it subsequently won, so you can vote for it there.

Cheers

Nick

Why can I not see any vote buttons? All I seem to have is a list of people I could vote for, even though I am logged on. Is it anything to do with not having made many posts?

Yes, you need to have made 10 posts before you can vote.

You'll just have to wander around and have a natter for a bit, but posts in the Welcome to New members or the Corporation Arms don't count!

Jude :D

why are they all folkies?

This year's Hancocks have made me realise how out of touch I am.  I've only voted in a few categories and then only once as there is only one artist I'm familiar with.  In some I can't vote at all as I don't know the people at all - I need to do some serious listening I think.

Its a big field. Especially if it isn't your sole musical interest.

Very good point Adrian - perhaps I should have nominated Emma Kirkby or Bob Chilcot!

Who??

I like Emma Kirkby!

Seeing her live on Friday night - she will be exquisite, as always.

Sorry Bob, very rude of me -  Emma Kirkby is a classical soprano who doesn't sing anything later than Mozart.  Bob Chilcott is a former member of the King's Singers who writes wonderful choral music.

Oh! You took me seriously  :-[

I should have put a smiley in there ... my bad.

I'm going to have to rely on you tube a bit...

Can't really say I've heard a lot of the nominations.

Won't he go on until she's finished?

Not looking back ................. running

Post Of The MONTH!   ;D ;D ;D

The Beeb's nominees are chosen by an unseen, mysterious panel of the Great and the Good of Folkdom.

What do they know?  ;D

 The Hanocks started as an alternative for the very reason that most of us:
* hadn't seen or heard the Chosen Ones
* disagreed with the panel about the eventual winner
* thought that the panel were out of touch
* wanted to acknowledge the performers who tended to be overlooked by the Folk aristocracy.

I wouldn't beat yourself up about not knowing the nominees, everyone.

Nope, do what I do. Treat it as an excuse to find out about stuff you've not heard before  [;-)

An excellent suggestion sir!

Yes, but you lot all seem to have heard of them.  I've heard of some of the one's I DON'T like though.

I seem to have heard most of them this year, unlike previous years.

Smug from Essex ;)

Too true - I've got a few things waiting to be listened to from checking out the nominations...

The voting closes at about noon today.

Some of the voting is very close, with only a few % separating the leaders. Disappointingly the artists who are just in the lead are mostly 'the usual suspects'.

So I'm asking. Please have a look at your vote and decide if rather than just voting for the same people every year, you could give a vote to somebody new. Obviously they do have to deserve it, but they will be far more thrilled to receive a Hancock, rather that somebody getting 'oh another one'.

Thanks for the opportunity to vote on and discuss the nominations.

Big up to all of those who made constructive comments. I enjoy passionate discussion.