TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Please excuse my incredible ignorance but does anyone have any background information about this song?  I always thought pavanne/pavane was a dance but a google search throws up many references, none of which seem to relate to the lyrics.  

According to wikipedia, it's a slow courtly dance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavane

I thought it was about an ice cold assassin, but for years thought it was a song about 'the van' :-\

I go with the assassin theme, but wss never sure if it was literal or a metaphor for someone who won over her conquests with ease! Words below, with the slow, courtly dance reference at the end. Bit deep for Good Friday.


Pavanne, Cold steel woman, Pavanne.
How do you love a woman?
With eyes as cold as the barrel of her gun,
Who’s never missed her mark on anyone,
Pavanne, Pavanne, Pavanne.

Casino doors swing open, rich men raise their eyes they say “Who is this beauty��?
As elegant as ice, and later there’s an accident, another charges d’affaires
Is lying in a pool of blood no witness anywhere.

And they say she was a hundred miles away.
The hotel porter saw her climb the stairs.
And the maid with trembling hands knows what to say.
When the judge says, “Are you sure?��? “I’m sure,��? she swears.

Pavanne, Cold steel woman, Pavanne.
How do you love a woman?
With eyes as cold as the barrel of her gun,
Who’s never missed her mark on anyone,
Pavanne, Pavanne, Pavanne.

At the presidential palace a thousand people saw
His excellency leave his car and never make the door.
The blood flow through his fingers as he clutches at the stain
And staggers like a drunken man lies twisted in the rain.

And they say she grew up well provided for.
Her mother used to keep her boys for sure.
And her father’s close attentions led to talk.
She learned to stab her food with a silver fork.

Pavanne, Cold steel woman, Pavanne.

And they say she didn’t do it for the money.
And they say she didn’t do it for a man.
They say she did it for the pleasure.
The pleasure of the moment.

Pavanne, Cold steel woman, Pavanne.
How do you stop this woman?
When everyone is moving through a trance.
Like prisoners of some slow courtly dance.
Pavanne, Pavanne, Pavanne, Pavanne.

Isn't it literal, about a terrorist?  It was written at the time the Bader-Meinhof gang were active.  I guess what takes the song beyond simple narrative and makes it so haunting is the upbringing verses.

I used to do this one occasionally as a floor spot and it's certainly a song that sucks one into a bleak and intense mood.  Typical of RT's genius.

A more upmarket ancestor of Carrie in "Guns are the Tongues"?

Excuse my ignorance, is this a RT song? I know the instrumentals from many renaissance cds. My favorite being Philip Pickets version of Terpsichore. But the John Renbourne version is also great. What RT cd is it on? Is it in renaissance style?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0agAJr_UO4

You might like this version, Janet!

It is on First Light. Not in a renaissance style but very much in a Richard & Linda Thompson style!

I have a couple, ahem, archival recordings on which this appears ... PM me if you're interested.

I was sure that it was actually Linda who wrote the words to Pavanne and it became a rare co-written song.  Am I wrong?

Great song either way!

Jules

Linda had a vivid and complete dream and awaking, wrote the song: she and Richard refined and polished it between them. I wasn't in the room when they were processing her nocturnal fantasy so I can't say how long it took or what the division of labour was, but it was speedily done. A perfect little novella. Time can stop: always a good thing.

Very true.

So the song has nothing to do with a Pavanne then, which is a slow courtly dance - normally followed by a Galliard.

I think it does, in as much as this upper class dance was very, very slow, almost to the point of not moving, solemn, elegant, sophisticated and meticulously choreographed with a great emphasis on style and posture.  With Richard Thompson, like any great author, every word counts - none are accidental and none are wasted.

I've been told that Pavanne was a spy but haven't had time to investigate yet.  Also that the word means peacock.

I thought it was about one of the 1970 female terrorists...Baader meinhoff I think, but I may have imagined that.  Graham Nash (and David Crosby) sings a mean version...

Thanks for the link to YouTube. Never heard this song before. Wonderful. {:-)

Yes, thanks AnneT.  So there's this version, the First Light one, the Simon Nicol/Dave Swarbrick one and now a Graham Nash version.  Any links David?

Beautifully put, sir.

Jules

The recorded Graham Nash version is on Songs for Survivors (it's not a good album in my opinion...far too sacharine) but the live Crosby & Nash versions sound great...(not officially released)...

I think you can hear a sample here...

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/4851651/a/Songs+For+Survivors.htm

Graham Nash, saccharine? Surely not!  ;D

It is probably for a different thread but I have always thought that Nash needs some combination of C, S or Y, or even The Hollies to dilute the tooth rotting sweetness of his songs. For example Our House & Teach Your Children work beautifully in situ because of their surroundings but an entire album of it would be pretty sickly!

Well I liked the samples I just listened to (thanks for the link, David) but then I think I like one more spoonful of sugar in my tea than you.  Maybe two! ;D

Pavanne was pretty similar to the SN version.  Was he influenced do you think?  I haven't had a chance to listen to the original Richard and Linda one yet.  Someone is supposed to be finding it for me ...  ::)

Where is the SN version?

Songs for Beginners just about works, but generally I agree.... Incidentally, Innocent Eyes (which came out about the same week in '86 as Neil's Landing on Water and shares many of the same faults) is probably the worst album by a major artiste ever to be released.  And saying that in the context of LoW takes same doing  :)

It's on Close To The Wind - a 1984 collaboration between Simon Nicol and Dave Swarbrick.  I'll see if I can find a link.

Don't worry. I have it. In fact I listened to it a couple of weeks ago (or at least the Close To The White Bear CD version). I don't remember Pavanne at all! I'll have to check now. How embarrassing!  ;D

I'm not sure actually ...hasn't it been removed from the Close to the White Bear CD?  On the original album it is Side 1, Track 3....

Yes, you're right.  It's not on the White Bear CD.

Ah, that explains it. Curses! Swizz!

OK I'm sorry: it was a technical matter. When we decided to combine the two source LPs (Close to the Wind and Live at the White Bear {incidentally pronounced to rhyme with HIVE, not LIVER}) onto a single CD, without going into damaging levels of digital compression, there was just slightly too much information to fit. Something had to go, and as it was a fundamentally duo-based project, there was one instant candidate.

Which I suppose adds to the rarity value, if nothing else.

Linda sings it much better than I do anyway - and it was her dream in the first place...

Not a problem Simon. Thanks for the explanation. I didn't even know that I was missing it until today! I'd still like to hear your version though.

Finally managed to listen to the First Light version.  Linda does indeed sing it beautifully and it surely is the definitive version.  (Sorry to agree with you, Simon ...  But that was then, this is now and there's an acoustic tour coming up [hint, hint])

I think it's time for me to put the shovel down, the hole is already too deep to climb out! ;)

I agree generally as well, but Songs for Survivors is excellent I think.  Much darker than his usual stuff.  Neil and Ben Keith play on that record too.  Some of it sounds very Neil-ish.

Jules

Hmmm, I'd forgotten (or never knew) that...must play it again....if I can find it.

I've just noticed that the I Tunes review of Songs For Survivors describes Pavanne as "misogynist". How's that for missing the point? Especially given Linda's involvement in the creation of the song.

However, if you buy your copy from Alex Lyons of this parish (as I did - and he said at the time he had a few copies left, so I hope he won't mind me mentioning it again here), he very kindly sends you a bonus CD with the tracks missed off the main CD!

Quote from Alex on earlier thread: (Sorry, haven't worked out how to copy quotations to a different thread)

"I do have a very small number of copies of the 'Close To The White Bear' CD - with a bonus CD featuring the omitted tracks: a tune set and Simon's fab solo version of Pavanne - and they're just taking up space here so if Anne or anyone else wants to drop me an email or IM I'll try to help you out."

Dammit - I got mixed up.  I meant Songs for Beginners.  Doh!

Jules

Do I detect something rather spooky going on here about this song?

First it is on Richard and Linda's 'First Light', which has never been released on CD (didn't I read somewhere here that the master tapes have gone missing?).  Then it is left off the release of Close to the White Bear.

Hmm... maybe it was a bit close to the truth and someone started dropping hints about mysterious assassins turning up if the song wasn't dropped...

You could get a good conspiracy theory going about this  ;D

Not quite right. It was released on CD by Hannibal in the late 80s/early 90s along with Sunnyvista. That fortunately coincided with the time I was getting heavily into RT so I bought them on release and still have them both.

Alas I was a "Johnny come lately" and am still trying to track these CDs down.   :(

Jules

I was going to say: I have "First Light" on CD, my probably imperfect memory is that I bought in the USA about 20 years ago. Haven't found it yet in my still-packed-up CD collection so can't say what label it's on. Maybe Ryko?

Anyhow, just listening to it on the PC, since I backed up all my CD's before I moved.

Yes, Ryko.

Jules

Oh well... bang goes the conspiracy theory then.

Never mind, it was fun while it lasted

 ;)

But surely worth a remaster/re-issue. One of my favourite RT/LT albums.

Richard wants to reissue it (and Sunnyvista too), but the master tapes went missing.  They got lost between Chrysalis and Richard.  It's doubly a shame as RT now has the rights to both albums.  He's still looking.

Jules