TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

It's been quite some time since the last Fairport CD. I'm eagerly waiting for some more music from The Convention. A CD with new material would be great, but if that's not in the the plans for the imminent future I would love a live album from the Acoustic Convention. Close 3rd on my list is an unreleased live gem from the Woodworm Archive vaults.  8)
As long as it's something previously unreleased from the boys, I'm happy.
What do you think we can expect next from our favourites?

A sort of Off the desk 2 would be my favourite! Last year's tour was superb.

Especially the Babbacombe Lee set please chaps  ;D

I like to see an album of new material incorporating substantial guest input from Richard or Jerry [ or both] - much as i love Fairport I've missed substantial electric guitar input in past years.

Paul

I thought Off The Desk 2 had already been confirmed for the Wintour. Isn't Ric editing/producing it?

I understood that to be the case as well.

Oh, not another one!

Indeed, hence that is the answer to this thread's question!

It's only half the answer...

What will be on it?

In a while and probably some songs which will be similar to the last couple - or are we after something more specific?

I suspect the John Lee trio of songs along with numbers nor on the first Off the Desk....

Check last winter's set-list and you can probably work it out, I reckon. A beer for the closest guess!

I think most, if not all, of the material will be from the Acoustic Tour from May this year. I think it said so in the Croppers programme.

Yummy!!!! ;D ;D ;D

Oh yes! Hopefully Santa´ll bring it along together with this year´s St. Agnes Fountain CD! ;)

There's an Albion Christmas Band album out on 10 November too if you feel so inclined Staffan. It is called Snow On Snow.

I'd like to hear a more electric album from them, going back to their folk rock roots.

I think a sizeable minority (including moi) would agree with you, Adam....

minority?
a large majority

To which I too belong. But we've been down this road before. I think it is unlikely to happen as Peggy for one professes (in the lengthy interview on the FC site I believe) not to miss the electric sound and to enjoy the more acoustic direction in which the band is now mired involved.

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There's an Albion Humbug Band album out on 10 November too if you feel so inclined Staffan. It is called Snow On Snow.
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It´ll probably drop into Santa´s bag,too!  ;)

I used to think so, but I'm not so sure anymore....

bring back maart ! and swarb ! and a cameo with dengie boy. thanks

I would love a live cd from the vaults. I too would like a lead guitarist and some grit on new material. They now sound like adult contemporary instead of folk rock. Was the last folk rock track by FC Spanish main in 1997? Has there been any other rocky songs?

Hawkwood's Army?

One more vote for more electric.

Paul

.........And another from me  ;)

And again.
Replacing Maart with the best fiddle player (IMHO) in England and getting him to play the mandolin always struck me as like getting Jimi Hendrix in to play the bass.
But that's another story.
For God's sake get an electric guitarist.

Years ago, I think Chris was still in the Albion Band, I saw him play the 'Bat' which was a hybrid bouzouki strat, I think. Played it like an all out rock'n'roller. He told me last year that he had sold it some years later. Ought to save up and buy a new one ;D (I love all of his other instrumentation but that could be a good add-on)

Personally I don't miss Maart - his style of guitar (and especially his style of keyboards) weren't my cup of tea.

But if Jerry wants to rejoin, I'll be cheering all the way!

Jules

The Bat was a great instrument - didn't Chris play it on his first tour with FC, and on a few album tracks including Spanish Main.

But I agree that there needs a bit more edge to the sound, but not necessarily from the electric guitar, sometimes I think Ric should be used more as a lead electric instrumentalist, give him some nice big fat solos to rip into, full on fx pedals the lot - there is more to electric than the guitar.

David W

why would maart need to replace anyone?? bring him back !

That's true. A six piece FC has happened before.
Econnomics (among other things) I guess.

Well, I'm looking forward to Off The Desk 2. But the next studio album should have some minor changes. As much as I love this line-up's 4 albums, and as much as I love Chris/Ric compositions, I think there should be more space on the album for heavier Folk Rock tracks, as well as maybe some jazzy numbers and some awesome covers.

I think Fairport will go into Jazz/Rock fusion next. Ric has experience in that area. Jazz/Folk fusion, maybe.

It certainly can't be any duller than A Sense of Occasion. Old Dakota to Manchester indeed. ::)

What cd is that on? I'll give it a whirl.

The last one...Sense of Occasion.  I wouldn't really describe it as folk-rock myself but it's closer than most of the band's recent material.

Interesting ... what's it missing that would make it folk-rock?

A groove....?  Soul?  Good question.  My own basic requirement for folk rock are a) rock solid rhythm section, b) lead guitar and c) fiddle.  I'll let others more qualified than me consider where the song fits into those requirements....

Folk and rock possibly!

I'd define folk-rock as folk music played with electric instruments.  There's plenty of shades within that definition!

Jules

Facetious? If not, please explain.

Yes, facetious to some extent but it is a debate we have had many times on the board. The current line up tends toward a sort of comfortable acoustic AOR. I realise that they still dip into traditional song and I realise that there is a rhythm section but to me the rock element is muted and the folk element blunted whereas there is much music in the band's history that is the precise opposite of that. Sense Of Occasion was another album in the vein that really began with The Wood & The Wire. Don't get me wrong, I like some of the songs but as albums they have been stylistically less than I hope. The last real "folk rock" track they did, instrumentals aside, (IMHO) was "John Gaudie". That fits right in with my definition. A story song. A great set of fiddle tunes and a strong electric backing, even the guitars.

Not really wanting to beat this to death, but I'm still puzzled: the song seems to contain all the elements you've both talked about: story song, nice bass groove, strong rock beat ... everything except a lead electric guitar solo, I guess: someone's playing rhythm on an electric, I think.

Is that it? If they had included a lead guitar solo rather than the twinned mandolin/fiddle breaks (I think that's what they are), it would have qualified as a folk-rock song in your eyes?

I think we are at cross purposes Bob. I've just realised that you are talking specifically about Hawkwood's Army whereas I was talking more generally about the Sense Of Occasion album. I do actually like Hawkwood's Army, largely because it rocks. But like Jules, for me it doesn't quite fit my notion of folk rock. I'm not sure I can quite put my finger on why. I guess it is a delicate balance and maybe this track, unusually for modern day Fairport, falls down too heavily on the rock side of the equation.

Is Tam Lin (on SOO) folk rock?

yes but its only the latest bit of  the re-recording the oldies project
its a bit like live albums with a few new songs

I've said it before, but I would like FC to have a go at some previously uncovered traditional songs.

For me, there are two dimensions to Fairport - the electric and the acoustic.  On the winter tour I like to hear predominantly electric and on the acoustic tour I like to hear predominantly acoustic.  As far as I am concerned, the more that both are set in a folk context, the better.  A CD needs to reflect both dimensions, in my opinion.

Stuff like Hawkwood's Army is fake to me - a contemporary songwriter writing a corny little story about a historical event, but without the emotional impact (And universal message) of something like Red & Gold. Fairport should be covering stuff like Steve Knightley/Show of Hands, IMHO, and rocking it up.

I'm not quite sure I understand the distinction that you are making here. Surely both Steve Knightley and Ralph McTell (author of Red & Gold) are also contemporary songwriters? Personally I feel that importing so much material from external writers has been at the core of the problem with Fairport albums over the last 20 years (though there are certainly songs that I like amongst them). But as Simon has said, until Chris Leslie joined the band, it had not contained any writers since Swarb so using external material was what enabled the band to continue at all! Nevertheless, I would like to see them trying to generate all of their material internally or from "traditional" sources. Get Simon to play electric throughout, switch on Ric's effects pedals and persuade Chris to pick up that red solid bodied thingy that he played on stuff like Spanish Main on his first tour with the band.

in direct response to the question in the thread title, sometime in the future, and, most probably, some songs.

harumph.

 ;)

I too prefer the folk rock Fairport Convention of the past to the more MOR Fairport of today but I am glad that they still exist and are producing new material :) I will still see them on the Winter tour this year and always support the band that has provided me with the soundtrack to my life.It was a privilege to see Liege and Lief performed on a certain field in 2007  ;D I was too young first time around :P

Among the worst set of lyrics ever released by Fairport  :P

SoO is most definitely a hot potato - in that it never stays in the hands of anyone I lend it to for long.

IMO there have only been 4 decent albums in the last 20 years (Gladys' Leap, Red and Gold, Jewel In The Crown and Over The Next Hill), but that *does* mean they got it right four times with almost the same lineup. I agree that Maart would inject a huge amount into the recording band.

Just goes to show how subjective this is though. My reasoning would be the same but I would swap Five Seasons & WKWTTG for Red & Gold & Jewel respectively. Even OTNH does not wholly convince.

I did say "decent" rather than "great". None of them stay on my playlist for that long.

As long as they don't decide to re-visit "London River"...

Some really good tracks on the first three...don't like OTNH at all, I'm afraid.  But those three are my favourite albums of, well, actually it's the last 30 years isn't it.  Gulp....

Could somebody please explain the overt hostility shown to this song? I know it's all subjective, but I have always enjoyed it very much.

I agree and actually like "South Dakota" too. In fact much of the output on recent albums (i.e. those within the last 25 years!) has been the triumph of presentation and execution over material.

I like it too. It's a jolly singalong song and a good one to start with after the break when everyone's a bit sluggish and need bringing back on track.

It's just a bit too jolly & singalong for me, I'm afraid.  It's not a bad song, just not to my musical taste.

I'd like to see a more folky/rootsy bias on the next album, regardless of how electric or otherwise the instrumentation might be.  Although FC have often said they do not see themselves as a folk band, IMHO they are among the best interpreters of trad/trad style songs & tunes.

Sense Of Occasion has only a few tracks on it that I like. But luckilly, I love those tracks. Chris' Keep On Turning The Wheel, South Dakota To Manchester and Edge Of The World are not the best songs from Chris but still great. With them goes Tam Lin, Polly On The Shore and Hawkward's Army, the rest of the tracks however do nothing for me.

I've said similar before....

• Get in Chris While for 1 album, she can write songs and has a fabulous voice - a female vocalist for 4 or 5 songs brings in a nice bit of light and shade
  
• Ask Chris to write a song for Simon to sing - he's an excellent song writer, but because Chris sings them as well, they sound more like solo records then Fairport Convention
• Don't re-record old classics
• Get an independent producer
• look to modern folk writers for materiel - SoH, Eliza C, Kate Rusby, and I think that some of Anthony John Clarkes songs would be improved by being 'fairported up'.
• Don't overstay your welcome - 12 great songs are better then 16 OK ones.

Having said that, the day I take FC's advice on Data Centre architecture, is the day they should listen to me on what to do on their next album....

 ;D ;D

But I completely agree with you on most of your points. I think the second one has actually happened before but I can't name the song off the top of my head. I would add one more. Plug in!

Very well said.
IMHO that`s the right point of view.

Peter

Hang on minute, Dave Pegg's on the phone with some ideas about a network-based back-up system. . . ;)

The Wood and the Wire. One of their best IMO.

More to the point is the excellent Lalla Rookh from ONBB - a Leslie / Allcock composition I think which really needs resurrecting.


David W

Isn't Spanish Main also an Allcock/Leslie co-write? I'm at work at the moment so I can't check.

I've got to admit, I do like that one a lot.

 

Yup

Great - ask him his opinion on the viability of a SoA/Cloud based solution between widely geographically located Data Centres whilst he's on.

My opinion for what it's worth is continue to take the approach they have, make an album they like and to hell with the rest, some will like some will not.

The output over the last decades has not always been to my liking, never been a fan of Maart's contribution particularly the keyboards, especially that Whale song, and find Chris's songs at times too sentimental but there is always enough on an album to keep me buying the next.

My only hope is no more reinterpreting the past on albums save it for the shows, not that I have much chance of seeing one.

Yeah, some of those keyboards were pretty ill advised.  I'd like to see Maart back, but those keyboards should stay in the basement where they belong, next to the Taco cassettes.

 

They've not dated well, have they.  But then I always thought they sounded dated, even at the time..  Having said that I do find myself being a little nostalgic for the old Maart led heavy version of Matty now and again....

Right on target, David!!  Although those heavily compressed distortion effects would put him squarely in the 80's as well - some cheezes age better than others!

I love The Wounded Whale. On of my all time favourite Fairport tracks and a live highlight of both the tours at the time and my first Cropredies in the early 90s

i pretty much like anything maart touches...

Well, he patted me on the back once....so...............HI THERE!  :D

:)

I think with a band who's history is as lengthy and varied as Fairport's, where one leapt on board will always have a special part in what one loves about them.... To me, it's the "part-time" 4-piece....and I then worked backwards.  When the new band came along in '85 my ears were already rather more closed than they should have been.  It's not something I'm proud of, but it's the truth..