TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Why do I keep reading this in reference to the first album line up of Fairport Convention?
Was it coined by a journalist at the time of the debut's release and has been repeated ever since or did the group identify J.A. as a direct influence on their earliest sound?
Is it a lazy comparison, simply because both acts had joint male and female lead vocals or do you think that the inclusion of material deriving from the U.S. West Coast on Fairport's earliest releases justifies the comparison?
Thanks in advance for any replies on this.

A lot who liked one often liked the other , they were certainly my 2 favourite bands in the mid to late sixties. I dont think we compartmentalised music within the rock/pop genres so much in those days.

Even the band themselves admit to this.....

I don't think it's lazy...I mean FC Mk 1 really do sound like them, don't they (particularly JA Mk 1 with Signe).....although they're probably a good year 'behind' them in terms of sound at that time - JA were sounding quite different by the middle of '68 (when the FC album came out, although it was recorded 6 mths earlier, wasn't it?) to how they were sounding a year or 2 earlier.... but then 6 mths later FC sounded very different too  :)

Oh to be (properly) around at such a moment....

I was around and they were definitely comparable and compared to each other because of the look and sound, not laziness.

From the Fairport website

' At this early stage, Fairport looked to America for material and inspiration. "The two lead vocalist approach appealed to us," Matthews recalls. "and because of our name and onstage presence, lots of people thought we were American, and we were not about to attempt to dispel that presumption." This led to the band being dubbed 'the British Jefferson Airplane'.

I was very into west coast (America) music in the late 60s and it was this association that introduced me to Fairport, and I have to say this is still my favourite incarnation of the band.

I was also fortunate enough to have seen both bands live at the time and am therefore able make a direct comparison.

I agree with David.  I actually think it was a fair comparison.  And I say that as someone who much prefers early Fairport and has never really rated the Airplane very highly.

Jules

A comparison that was never particularly liked by the band at the time if I remember rightly.

There were many influences that we took from different American bands and singer songwriters

'Plastic Fantastic Lover' was the only JA song that FC did sing once or twice with Simon singing lead.

One writer compared us to them and once in print, it stuck... I think it was said before Iain even joined the band, and I suspect it was a desperate hunt for something to compare us with as we were that different to any other up and coming bands at the time

 :)

You obviously know best about the band's attitude to the comparison Jude.

I think you are right that journalists could have found a reference point in many other of the west coast bands' sound, and I suppose the Byrds might have been closer in material, but the obvious comparison was in the line up.

The sound was so new at the time that I imagine it was hard for music journalists to find a comparison that would be recognisable to their readers, and I for one am glad they did as it introduced me to the band. ;D ;D ;D

i cant imagine a more definitive answer to the original question, straight from the band to your discussion board

funny I never made that comparason. I was introduced to FC by my (much) older brothers and to JA later on. They were totally different, I always thought, although I do enjoy both bands.

There was at least one occasion when a direct comparison could have been tested. A show,which alas I missed, I think on Parliament Hill Fields, Hampstead Heath in 1968 when Fairport & JA  shared a bill. Apparently, it rained.

There  was also a period around "Rising For The Moon" where instrumentally & even stylistically, I could detect a(n admittedly minimal) degree of similarity with "Dragon Fly" era Jefferson Starship.  :)

Different, yes, of course...although if you listen to Jefferson Airplane Takes Off (the only album with Signe as female lead) or any of the few rare recordings of that band live, there is certainly more than a passing resemblance (or the other way around!) to the first Fairport album.  But JATA was released in late '66....

Would love to hear that Plastic Fantastic Lover by FC!!!

The period that direct comparisons were made was a very short one. I saw both bands on the same bill, along with the Byrds at the Bath Festival in 1970, but by then the similarities were long gone.

I've always thought of Jefferson Airplane as the "American Fairport"  ;)

I've always understood it was Tommy Vance who first coined the phrase, probably during his time on pirate radio or in the early days of Radio One. He was DJing on the West Coast around 65/66 so could have had first-hand experience of the Airplane well before they first came over to the UK.

Pah! What would you know? ;D

I too have always wondered about this phrase.  Depends how you look at it of course, but personally I've always been pleased that FC never had a phase comparable with "Starship". :o

I'm not sure it had anything to do with whether they played here or not, certainly their albums were available and certainly we in Fairport listened to them, but I am fairly sure it was a music journalist who made the comparison and coined the phrase. I will have a look through the cuttings that I have and see if I can find out who it was..

But I still think that it was not the music that was the similarity, it was the fact that we played pretty psychedelic music at the time and there was a girl singer (me) and that was pretty unusual at the time.

I doubt there was any deeper meaning to it than that and I suspect that as the first poster, Marc, has  suggested, it was just a lazy off the cuff comparison made without a huge amount of thought.

But then I could be wrong... ::)



Well exactly Frog dear  ;D

I was sure I'd read it was Tommy Vance somewhere, so checked a few things and it's in the Patrick Humphries book, although he still may be wrong of course.

Well it could have been Tommy Vance, it might have been someone else, but whoever it was it was only a superficially accurate comparison, and not much to do with the music we were playing...

Jude ;D

Well without any thought to the music I just thought it was the two 5-syllable names!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^-^

Girl singer, four or five blokes, folk moving into folk/rock scene... You can see why Tommy Vance (for it was he) came up with such an off-the-cuff comment. Add the pre-1969 folk/psychedelic material from Tim Buckley, Eric Andersen... Mind you, I can recall more comments about FC being the "British Byrds".

Just found this in Fairportfolio from a snippet copied from Disc 23.12.67:
FC singer Judy Dyble: "Anyone who dares compare us with the Jefferson Airplane will be pelted with bad herrings!"  >:( ;)

I'm intrigued by the idea of "bad" herrings. ;D

Oh dear ... how one's words come back to haunt one... ::)

perhaps I should have said 'gone off' herrings.. in mitigation it was directed to Melody Maker's Chris Welch at the Speakeasy. at probably 3 am after a gig. Yes possibly while Mr Hendrix was playing. ::)

Naughty, naughty herrings! ;D

Did you mean red herrings Jude?

Jules

3 am in the morning, 43 years ago?

Heaven only knows what I meant... can you remember that far back? :)

Actually I know what I meant...

Yes.  I was crying and demanding some milk.   ;D

Jules

fast asleep in my bed
probably dreaming about that burd in fairport ::)

Something I think the Facebook generation will learn very much the hard way...

There is something in the comparison...a whiff of something so similar and yet so much so different.

I'd been wigged out on the Airplane for nearly 2 years when, in mid 69, a friend played me 'Meet...' I could see - hear? - it immediately: a more sensitive, refined - British (as in the way 'Doctor Who' is British and 'Star Wars' is American) - take on the Airplane sound. 'HOLIDAYS' and the first album were immediate aquisitions. While, in retrospect, the drift into English folk - and initially it was a drift - was just beginning on 'HOLIDAYS', the first album was so much more eclectic than anything the Airplane had done (or future Airplanes and Starships would ever do). The Airship have never come as close to cool jazz as 'It's Alright, Ma' (or, for that matter, 'Autopsy'!)

If not for the vibe that FC-are-a-bit-JA, I probably might never have given 'Meet' a chance. So glad I did!!! Pentangle, Steeleye, the Albions...even a willingness to listen to Noah and the Mumfords came from that vibe. Accurate...? Well, yes, in retrospect, FC clearly took more from The Byrds musically than JA..but add the male/female vocal tag....

As for 'RISING', I'd say it's closer to the manufactured sound of 'EARTH' than 'DRAGON FLY' (which sounded more like latter-day JA with a new rocket up their arses - the big change, in the studio at least, came with 'RED OCTOPUS').

Maybe FC should invite JS to be a headliner at Cropredy 2011? JS visit our shores on a fairly-regular basis these days, their last album was a revisitation of their pre-JA folk influences and they often perform semi-acoustic - though still with psychedelic guitar solos!! And maybe a bit of role-swapping...Simon chugging the rhythm on 'Pooneil' while Paul Kantner throws in a few licks at the end of 'Angel Delight'...? For goodness sake, why not?

I'm seeing an alternate universe, where Jude never left Fairport, but after several years, eventually all the other guys left, & she recruited a sorry bunch of young corporate hair metal kids & shortened the name of the band to Convention. Someone wake me up.... please!

been on the late night cheese?

This darn arf make me chuckle.  I got into FC on at best their second wave.  Likewise Jefferson Aeroplane (as I prefer to describe them) - both in about 1976/7 in a desparate effort to be a contrarian.

By that stage they had distinctly different images:

Jefferson Airplane's White Rabbit seemed to be a gateway to LSD

Fairport Convention seemed to be a gateway to Morris Dancing

For some reason I was more attracted to the latter :)

That's because...

One pill makes you larger

And one pill makes you small.


Goodnight from Edinburgh

I seem to remember you saying somewhere that the Yanks were gravely offended by you asking for beer rather than other substances while on tour there.

seeing as how its yourself they are 80% off retail price direct from Pfizer ::)

Did they mistake pills for pils?

Ooooh cripes! wake up!!! I haven't gone down the corporate hair metal road.... well ...not yet anyway.. wonder what them there Fields of the Nephilim are up to  ::) :o

Yikes!  Knee Deep In The Witchcraft!!  :o

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