TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Hi, I am looking for a copy of Sandy Denny's book No more sad refrains, can anyone help please, thanks  8)

Yep, got mine, don't bother.  Not very well written and does, IMHO a hatchett job on other members of Fairport Convention.  And no, you can't have it!  ;)

Via Amazon, but v expensive.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-More-Sad-Refrains-Times/dp/1900924110/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278268272&sr=1-1

Clinton Helyin.
Helter Skelter Publisjing, London.
(Paperback Edition 2001)
ISBN 1-900924=35=8

The best thing about it is the photo on the front cover.

£51.49!!!!  :o

Shudder! £13.99 from Waterstones in Wolves about 7 years ago.  Still stand by what I said tho'  ;)

Publishing even!  :-[ :-[!

I realise that this book is generally regarded as being poor, but in the absence of any other substantial biography of Sandy surely it has a place in a fan's library, the reader should be able to make their mind up on the evidence presented to them. I would be interested in any specific criticisms of the volume in question.

Should you be able to find it somewhere, "No Thought Of Leaving: A Life of Sandy Denny" by Pamela Murray Winters, is an unpublished alternative to the book mentioned here and well worth a read.

It does not do justice to the important role that Ms Dyble played in the formation of Fairport.  Sorry Jude, but I had to say that.

I have a copy I might consider selling, but the flyleaf is inscribed.

PM me if you're interested.

Despite reading the warnings and reservations of others here I'd still like to read this book.  Been after it for a couple of years now and it's always for sale at silly prices.   :(

Heylin's an odd cove.  He writes some essential rock reference books (especially on Dylan), but he seems to have an unpleasant side to him.

Jules

I have a copy of this which I read over a sunny Cropredy weekend when it first came out. It is possible that my knowledge of the history of Fairport was not as extensive then as it is now so I may have been ignorant of any perceived slights but I enjoyed the book. There may have been some factual innacuracies concerning the band's origins but I have no memory of taking exception to the portrayal of individual band members. Perhaps I was naive.

This is probably heresy but I preferred it to Patrick Humphries' Meet On the Ledge which I found frustratingly lightweight and short on detail.

Well, yes, it is.

Jules

I agree. I doubt that we can look forward to yet another biography on Sandy so I will have to settle with this one. Unless a fatter and more thorough biography than "Meet On The Ledge" on the whole band Fairport Convention would be published. I must say that I´ve enjoyed all biographical efforts on the band (MOTL, TWE) and its members (SD,RT,AH) but I wouldn´t mind a new, more thorough and "complete" biography on the band.

I read the book many years ago with mixed feelings, but you can hardly criticise the writer for not including something about FC when Sandy wasnt actually in it, if the book is meant to chronicle her life. That is not intended to belittle Jude's contribution in any way, or anyone elses.

Totally agree, but there was no need for him to be quite so scathing about my time with FC and indeed the quotations attributed in that section were very pointed and unnecessary. And were possibly inaccurate.

There's 'warts and all' and there's 'I can say this because the people I'm saying it about are dead and can't refute it'  

Just saying.. :-\

As I read it so long ago, I dont recall what was actually said on that topic, hopefully no offence caused (by me) but no justifiable reason for the author to be so nasty.

Heylin doesn't need much in the way of justification.  He begins most of his books by slagging off other writers!

Jules

I've mentioned it before and it doesn't mean that the story as a whole is flawed, but the fact that the writer tells us that Fairport performed drummerless in Europe between Dave Mattacks leaving and Bruce Rowland joining at least hints at a lack of detail and research
I've seen them then and Paul Warren was surely drumming at the gig I attended

By coincidence, was talking about Clinton Heylin to some Dylan-ologist friends over the weekend, and he is not considered popular in those circles. I re-read No More Sad Refrains recently, and in some respects it is a bit of a hatchet job ; Heylin never seems to let exaggerations or sensationalisms get in the way of a good yarn, and some portions of the book are not entirely believeable.

Heylin's portrayal of Trevor Lucas is also unbelievably negative and leaves a foul taste. Now, I never knew the guy so who am I, but I believe he's held in high regard among many in the FC camp. To portray him as a talentless parasite is rather questionable to me. It's been years since I read the book, but I do recall being amazed at the posthumous butchering of Trevor. Whereas he was a key person in getting Fairport out of the guess-the-lineup gutter, was the main man for Nine and I love his role in Fotheringay.
Maybe in his slagging-off-digging-up-dirt way of journalism, Clinton Heylin would be a good journalist for The Sun.

Tell me more.  What do the Dylan fans say?

Jules

Nah.  Despite everything, he does actually have a brain and some semblence of sophistication.   ;)

Jules

Again, they think he's far too sensationalist. Apparently he is spotted outside Dylan concerts slagging off Bob, slagging off his band, and trying to encourage people not to go in to the show. There's also the feud between Clinton and Clive Gregson, via open letters in Dirty Linen magazine.

Heylin sure likes feuding (he had a small one with my brother once).  Sounds like he's a bit 'on the edge of reality'.   :(

Jules

Just read this on a Dylan forum:-

"I'm only in a couple of pages and already he has attacked Sheldon and Michael Krogsgaard, whose excellent work he uses anyway in the book. Why does Heylin always seem to come across as an absolute wanker with a personality disorder?"

Heh heh.

Jules

This review from The Independent of his latest Dylan book is particularly good:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/still-on-the-road-the-songs-of-bob-dylan-vol-2-19742008-by-clinton-heylin-1996796.html
Evidently marred by the same faults as his Sandy biography.

I was also irritated by the way, in his potboiler on Sgt Pepper, he lashed out at the late Ian MacDonald, a music writer who had more talent in his little finger than... well, I won't go on.

Brilliant quote from the first paragraph "Dylan might have been there – but only Heylin knows what actually happened." Says it all ! I haven't read the whole Sgt Pepper book yet, but on taking a cursory glance, a lot of the book is spent seemingly discussing anything except Sgt Pepper. Of particular concern to me was his negativity towards Brian Wilson and his work on the Smile album that never was (albeit in a revised version in 2004).

Well that's ludicrous - MacDonald was one of the best.

Jules

I didn't read that.  I do have some reservations about Brian Wilson's recent work, and how much of it is actually done by the man himself.  And it's plain as day that the man is terribly brain damaged, and that some writers handle him with kid gloves accordingly, but I still think the reworked Smile album was largely successful.

Jules

For subjects whom one would assume required a very great deal of research, he does seem to churn out books at rather a fast rate.

One of his strengths used to be his meticulous research.  Maybe that's slipping.  And that Independent review pemward sent a link to seems to suggest he's almost as much of a magpie as Dylan himself!

Jules

Agreed. Having had Smile bootlegs for years, and hearing the officially released pieces on the Good Vibrations box set, seeing the 2004 Smile tour and then getting the album, it was fascinating to see how the puzzle might've fitted together.
Are we veering slightly off-thread here ?

Life's like that too, I find.   ;)

Jules

I don't think we can go too far past Swarb's appraisal of the book and its author at http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?topic=26765.0

Lol.  "lets all wish him unremitting trots and warts on his chopper."  T-shirts should be printed...  ;D

I've just been laughing at that again too.

Jules

It's a few years since I read the book, I can recall a few mean-spirited comments but can't say I remember being that offended by it, a second read is obviously in order.

I met Clinton Heylin a few years ago at a record fair in Manchester. This was before the Sandy book, but I knew of him from the two self-published books on Sandy and RT he did in the late 80s/early 90s. A mutual friend introduced us and I seem to remember we spent a fair amount of time discussing Fairport live recordings and bootlegs, of which he seemed to have an encyclopedic knowledge, he obviously had a great passion for the band, or at least the period when Sandy and Richard were in it.

The only other book of his I've bought is 'Great White Wonders', his history of rock music bootlegs, which was very well researched and a good read if you can live with his writing style which can often make him seem more than a touch opinionated and dogmatic.

I read Heylin's book when it was first published, and I must say I found it quite upsetting and negative. I thought it dwelled too much on ill-informed conclusions about Sandy's personal life and skirted round the actual music somewhat. It's my ambition (truly!) to one day write a book about Sandy that celebrates her contribution to music, and from the comments here and on older threads, it would seem there might not be a shortage of different people to interview.

I understand the Heylin book may be reprinted to coincide with the release of the box-set later in the year.

That's sort of good news and bad news at the same time then.   :-\

Jules

Well, good luck, Mike. I have to say that when I tried, several years ago, to interest publishers in the idea of a book about Sandy I got nowhere. One of them pondered the name for a while, then asked me, "Was she the girl in The Seekers?"

Philip

Bad news for the booksellers trying to sell the thing at stupid prices anyway (makes mental note to offload his signed copies pronto!)....

(I don't like the book I ought to point out.  Tbh I just think its badly written.  I like his Bootleg book but everything else doesn't do it for me).

I found "No Sad Refrains" to be a good read - on a beach in a hot country if I remember correctly.

Love it or hate it, it's coming back into print:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-More-Sad-Refrains-Sandy/dp/1849386986/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297762672&sr=1-1

Jules

I may have posted this before, soz if so (brain cells going).

Heylin was at the Troubadour bash for Sandy a couple of years ago and had a boxful of the biog which he was selling for £20, which I suppose is fair enough as even then copies were changing hands at daft prices. He seemed pretty affable. I admit to enjoying the book (which I bought when it came out, not from him....)

But on balance I'm with Swarb and you guys - he veered dangerously close to a hatchet job on Trevor Lucas. I can't say that his portraits of Neil and Edna Denny are particularly kind either. Ask any parent what it's like dealing with their children! In the last analysis stuff like this is secondhand and subjective. Swarb was there - Heylin wasn't. What worries me is that after a while it becomes The Authorised Version.

Mind you, Heylin's book is a treasury of accuracy compared to the wilder shores of Sandy fandom - have you read some of the comments on YouTube? A new Sandy-ite religion is developing! Seems to be a combination of Laura Ashley and one of those weeping Madonna statues, bloody hell.
            

"I haven't read it" seems to be his actual position.

Well I've read it.. it's a mean book, full of assumptions and untruths.

Which is all I need to know.  I definitely will not be bothering with this one.

I never met Sandy, but I did meet Trevor - and great fun he was, too!