TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

OK, I've had to post this here because i can't start threads. Perhaps somebody can chop it out to is own topic for me?

The Folk Rock Champions League 2010

The Folk Rock Champions League for 2010 is only a small inaugural competition. Rather than proceed straight to knockout therefore, in the interest of fairness we will have a round robin stage.

Each team will play each other. The two teams with the most victories will proceed to the final. Should there be a tie, the teams with the highest margins of victory (goals scored – goals conceded) will go through.

The fixtures therefore are:

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

I am away for the next couple of days with only limited access to the internet so I shall leave you to pick the bones out of that lot until Thursday evening when I will announce the final.

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Cheers Nigel

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

This is getting tougher...

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt  [oh woe! this is a tough one!]
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Every one a wonderful album!

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight  A nightmare fixture, extra time, a replay and penalties needed
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Can I make a small plea that the deadline for the final is at least 6pm next Monday please, as i shall be away at Cambridge from Thursday and don't want to miss it.

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below the Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight v Below the Salt
Liege & Lief v Below the Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight

Below the salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege and Lief V I want to see the bright lights tonight
North Star Grassman & the ravens v Liege and Lief
I want to see the bright lights tonight v Below the salt
Liege and Lief v Below the Salt
North Star Grassman & the ravens v I want to see the bright lights tonight

Below the salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege and Lief V I want to see the bright lights tonight
North Star Grassman & the ravens v Liege and Lief
I want to see the bright lights tonight v Below the salt
Liege and Lief v Below the Salt
North Star Grassman & the ravens v I want to see the bright lights tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight (Draw - I assume draws are allowed in the group stages?  :-\

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below the Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight v Below the Salt
Liege & Lief v Below the Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight

Below the salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege and Lief V I want to see the bright lights tonight
North Star Grassman & the ravens v Liege and Lief
I want to see the bright lights tonight v Below the salt
Liege and Lief v Below the Salt
North Star Grassman & the ravens v I want to see the bright lights tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Jules

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

The 'Rise Up Like the Sun' bootboys are outside the stadium, looking for a rumble.

Let's hope they get their chance next time round. I can certainly see them giving all this year's competitors a run for their money. The trouple is that they have little consistent opposition in their own league.

oh i don't know that "Alright Jack" mob look like they could turn pretty ugly

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt is out of it's league here

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & The Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & The Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & The Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Its Tams on Tams action in the town centre tonite!

Mmnnn I would have thought Salt and Lief were the only two real competitors for Folk/Rock?


Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

That was tough, but not as tough if "Please To See the King" had won through.

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & the Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & the Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & The Ravens
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight
North Star Grassman & The Ravens v Liege & Lief
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt
North Star Grassman & The Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

The final whistle has blown on the group stage with the following results:

Below The Salt v North Star Grassman & The Ravens  9 - 19
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight  16 - 12
North Star Grassman & The Ravens v Liege & Lief 2 - 26
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight v Below The Salt  21 - 7
Liege & Lief v Below The Salt  23 - 5
North Star Grassman & The Ravens v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight  7 - 20

The final group standings are therefore:

                                                            W        L         Pts
Liege & Lief                                             3         0         9
I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight   2         1         6
North Star Grassman & The Ravens          1         2         3
Below The Salt                                        0         3         0

And so we come to the last match of the season, the 2010 Champions League Final

Lige & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

I have been asked to delay the final whistle until Monday evening, emulating the extended period of stoppage time played in any game when Man Utd are a goal down!  ;D

Plenty of time to think about this one then. Anthems have been sung, players presented to the Queen of May and we are underway...

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Tough call, and though some of the players on the Bright Lights team impress more as individuals, overall the L&Ls are just so perfectly formed as a team that they proved themselves the masters of total folk rock football.

Jules

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

What a tough match between two teams at the top of their game.  It had to go to extra time before Matty and Tam Lin combined in a magnificent sweeping move culminating in a beautiful dipping drive from Reynardine that not even the Great Valerio could keep out.

Another day it could so easily have gone the other way...

Did someone say Matty and Tam Lin?

Matty Groves v Tam Lin
Tam Lin v Come All Ye

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Battle of the Field v No Roses

Danger, Danger .... I am going into overload...failure to compute....the result is....47

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Cheers Nigel

We can see where this is going

Because of that:
Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Very close though. (A personal thing. L&L deffo a better album)

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I want to see the bright light tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Leige & Leif v I Want to see the Bright Lights Tonight
 - another Sophie's choice  :-\
Although strictly speaking that's a vote for the wonderful Cropredy rendition, on vinyl for vinyl terms it might go the other way...

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

It's true.  No Roses should have been in this thing somewhere.

Jules

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

Not that it's going to make much difference :(

Battle of the Field v No Roses

Liege and Lief v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight

Liege and Lief v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight
 - what a surprise

Spoiled ballot paper on this one I'm afraid. It's like those two blokes at Wimbledon endlessly bashing away at each other.

Oh, alright then - Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight, but only by a gnat's crotchet!

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight

You know it makes sense ;)

johnnysaint

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight[/b

"With no other choice except for to go" for Liege and Lief v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight

Liege & Lief v I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight  

Liege & Lief v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight

C'mon ye Bright Lights - the fightback starts here!

Liege & Lief v I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight

Cheers for delaying the deadline.  A very very tough call but while L&L is more influential the songs on Bright Lights are peerless.

Time to blow the whistle on this.

The final result is:

Liege & Lief lots, I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight, very few.

I am a little disappointed by this, not by the result which I think was inevitable but I hoped it would be closer.

Somebody is seriously going to have to explain the all conquering power of Liege & Lief to me. I bow to no man in my devotion to Fairport but is L&L really head and shoulders above everything else? Don't get me wrong, I fully understand its importance, significance and influence but does that necessarily make it their most enjoyable record or the best of the genre? As Fairport favourites go, it is not even in my top 6. So I am seriously asking, what is it that I can't hear, beyond its historical significance, that makes it so loved and so much better than everything else (and unbeatable in any competition like this)?

Anyway, that can of worms notwithstanding, congratulations to Liege & Lief on their victory. However a handicap may have to be considered in any future tournament to level the playing field a little.

The production is a little wooden, but the performances still sound fresh and filled with inspiration.  It's a work of genius.  It's consistently top drawer.  It has at least 4, possibly even 6, folk rock legends all working together for the only time in history forging something truly wonderful.  Other Fairport albums may have higher highs, but none of them can match Liege & Lief for its total brilliance over the full playing time.  That's why I think it's still The One.

Jules

Please post your top six. I personally have a soft spot for Babbacombe Lee, but if someone says liege and lief is better I know why. The is not just an original, it showcases the best qualities of traditional interpretation with electric instruments, peaks of songwriting from Thompson with both Farewell, Farewell and Crazy Man Michael, the playing from all is exemplary and displays the exuberance of youth and energy of those exploring new ideas. There are so many high points the bass line on tamlyn, the instrumentals, the first and most inspiring version of Matty Groves and some of Sandy's best vocals, not a bad moment. This is without having the rose tinted view of being there at the time.

I think GubGub is correct in that some votes were probably for significance, influence etc. but its impact musically holds up for all the reasons Brendan stated. All bias aside, the interplay between RT & Swarb is still genuinely exciting and the whole album still sounds fresh to me.

I was talking to someone who is slowly coming round to the idea of it being a classic album yesterday and encouraging him along, although I did add "...but if you think that's good, wait till you hear Full House!". I think the band played and sang better together as a group, had written better songs, and had more quality time to stretch out and work on material at their own pace before committing it to tape. Mind you, I wasn't there.  

I could have written that myself.  In fact I had to check to see I hadn't (as I have written similar things on here in the past)....

Well said (or asked, at least!), that man.

Couldn't agree more...fabulous for its day, but I just don't think it holds up all that well. "Unhalfbricking," for example, sounds much fresher today. And to my ear, "Jewel in the Crown" will likely hold up better in the decades to come over any of the early records.

But it's all subjective, I realize.

Ain't it just...you started off agreeing with me, now I'm disagreeing with you :)

'Hold up Better'...what does that actually mean?  That you'll still prefer it in the decades to come?  You'll know best on that score, but as to a) critical opinion (whatever that is) and b) sales, I'd be almost willing to bet my very last penny (believe me I haven't got many to spare at the best of times) that you're wrong on this JitC business....  Having said that it is (by far) my favourite of the post 70's releases, but that's still, imho, a pretty low benchmark.

It isn't my favourite either. But we were all consulted, and that's how the result occured.

I took the first copy of L&L to Leeds Poly Disco, and they played Medley side 2.track 2. If there were 300 young students in there, probably 275 of them had never heard of Fairport. I've never experienced anything like it before or since. The whole of the 300 just went wild, with a capital wild.

Hey, if we all agreed on everything there would be no discussions!

I just mean that L&L, to me, sounds very much of that era...both in performance and recording quality. "Jewel in the Crown," OTOH, sounds timeless...it for the most part avoided the cliches of the 80s and 90s (over use of sequenced synthesizers and overly compressed snare drum, for example).

I dislike "Full House" for the same reason, btw. The songs are fantastic, but the performances are limp and poorly recorded. Now "House Full," totally knocks me out and is one of my favorite records by, well ,anyone.

Btw, for interplay between RT and Swarb, I would have to go with "Smiddyburn." I have worn out 3 copies of that record!

I am aware my opinions on this subject are in the extreme minority. What can I say? My ears like what they like. ;)

I'm not suggesting that L&L doesn't hold up or that it is in any way undeserving of all the accolades it receives. It was magnificent live at Cropredy three years ago. But for pure listening pleasure it is just not the album I enjoy most or the first one I reach for when I am in the mood for a bit of Fairport.

House Full would be OK if there were more songs and less tunes on it.  The running order is just plain odd.  Full House does have tentative vocals, but the band plays with lots of verve and muscle, and the expanded CD version is quite possibly my favourite single disc of Fairport.

Jules

I agree about the songs/tunes. And I confess I have not heard the expanded version of FH, so I have no opinion there! I would give away my grandmother's pension to be allowed to remix Full House---an arrogant dream, I admit. But I'd still love to do it. :)

For me, a proper folk-rock champions league would have to include No Roses, The Battle of the Field, Rise Up Like the Sun, The Mysteries, Alright Jack, Please to See the King, Moving Hearts, The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter, The Night of a Thousand Candles, Basket of Light, The Tain, Dancehall Sweethearts, Country Life, The Man in the Moon Drinks Claret, Low Culture, Chemins de Terre and Alan Stivell a l'Olympia.

And actually, loads of others.

I'll sit in with you as assistant if I may!

There's also that (mostly) unreleased 1970 session from L.A. that produced the Full House CD bonus version of Bonny Bunch Of Roses.  They cut other stuff there including remakes of Walk Awhile, Sir Patrick Spens and Dirty Linen.  I so wish that stuff would see the light of day.

Jules

That may yet come to pass, though the competitors would need to be sufficiently well known to a large number of TAWers to make it work. But would any of them beat L&L?

I personally prefer Unhalfbricking but I reckon No Roses, Battle Of The Field and Rise Up Like The Sun are contenders to beat L & L.

are we entering a debate between favourite and best?

my favourite fairport album is probably Nine closley followed by Tipplers Tales, I iknow they're not the best but they're the ones I listen to most and enjoy the most.

DW

What he said!

That is sort of my point. I guess it comes down to what people's criteria are when they are taking part in an exercise like this when they are looking at the individual fixtures. In my case it is not what history has adjudged to be the finer or more important album but which of them I enjoy listening to the most.