TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

A live recording of Fotheringay in Essen in 1970 is being released in Germany.  The tapes have apparently been remastered by Jerry Donahue and it features sleeve notes by Philip Ward, of this parish.

Link here: http://www.sandydennyofficial.com/music/releases/other/essen-1970/THCD006/

Hmmm. 41 years before first release. More sewer dredging or quality material? I wonder which.

With Jerry Donahue and Philip Ward involved, I would hope it is the latter, but we'll have to see.

well there's unofficial live recordings of said beat combo circulating so if they are decent soundboards and the estimable senor Donohue does anything like as good a job as he did with F2 then i'm up for it

ok, first to hear, reports here please.

Philip can probably expound ......Philip?

Is this stuff different to the material that was included on the Fotheringay discs in the big box set?

Jules

I'm not sure (not having the big box set - sniff, sniff), but it does seem to be different from the live tracks what are on Boxful of Treasures.

5.19 AM? Blimey, Chris, you’re an early riser.

To be honest, I’m not sure whether I’m poacher or gamekeeper these days… I haven’t seen the final package, but I’ve had a preview of the CD and can report that it’s a superb performance. The recording quality is far from ideal (though I understand has been much improved by Jerry’s magic). Among other highlights, look out for a lovely version of ‘The Sea’, which Sandy, in an embarrassing attempt to speak German, introduces as ‘The Lake’!

The concert on the big box, some of which also appeared as bonus tracks on the reissue of the first Fotheringay album, is different – Rotterdam, June 70. This one’s Essen, Oct 70.

Thanks, Philip!

Jules

A very easy, and eminently forgiveable mistake to make, of course! ("The lake", auf Deutsch, ist "der See")

I think The Sea has to rank as my favourite ever Sandy song, for what it's worth ....

It has to be right up there for me as well.

Jules

ah! so it is zis von http://www.amazon.de/Essen-1970-Fotheringay/dp/B0053A7GL8/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1308687910&sr=1-3
sank you

About £15....surely cheaper elsewhere?

I'd have thought so....and stop calling me Shir....oh, sorry Shirl!   ;)

Jules

The Sea... I somehow managed to forget all about this superb record for near on 20 years. Hearing it again took me right back to way back when. Brilliant (IMHO of course).

according to a source close to the cd, it'll be out on amazon uk and other online retailers in a the next few weeks
so good news, the live version of "nothing more" is top and we are assured the rest of the cd matches it :)

Thanks for the info, Jim.

Jules

Can't wait!This is going to be very good!

The vinyl edition is housed in a deluxe gatefold cover with an LP-sized eight-page colour booklet.  :)

Thanks for the info! 8)

I heard a 40 second clip of 'Nothing More' on Youtube yesterday, and it sounded a bit bootleggy to me.  The clip seems to have disappeared now though.
I'm hoping that it was my speakers playing up!   :-\

To be honest I'm fully expecting it to sound, as you say Pete, "bootleggy", and that it'll be fairly interesting but hardly essential, and that I'll play it once or twice and then file it away.  I hope I'm proved wrong though.

Jules

It does sound a bit bootleggy, but there are brilliant moments.

'Nothing More' from this album can still be found here: http://www.myspace.com/sandydenny
The sound  indeed is slightly 'bootleggy' and though it's not bad, I don't think this version is better than any other that was recorded by Fotheringay, as has been stated elsewhere. Surely interesting from a historical or completist view, but I'm not sure wether I will buy it.

My copy has arrived.

Philip's liner notes are very well written (as always) and the booklet has been done very well.  The show itself was obviously a strong one.  As for the sound of the CD - well, Jerry has obviously worked very hard to do the best he can.  The drums sound great, the bass is fine, but the vocals and topline instruments do struggle to be heard...especially the vocals...especially Trevor's.

I'd have to say that ultimately it's a fan's only release and that the sound, whilst improved, still only sounds like a fair quality bootleg.  I'm actually surprised that Jerry thought it was worthwhile pursuing.  The live tapes used on the Sandy box sets over the years are much easier to enjoy.  I'm very glad to have a copy, but in all honesty I can't say it'll get many plays.

Jules

Thanks for that Jules. I have been holding off on this since I read that it sounded "bootleggy". I'd like to hear it (Spotify?) but I think I will refrain from purchasing.

I ordered a copy of the Essen CD off of eBay, but I can't seem to find the Fotheringay "Lost Broadcasts" CD/DVD set.  Amazon U.S. apparently sold out the day it went up for sale.  Any leads?

Yes, thank you, Jules.  I suspect I will follow GubGub here.  For the Lost Broadcasts set, Amazon UK has it as 'Out of stock'.  

Didnt that get withdrawn?

Thanks Jules. Sadly my fears have been confirmed. I was desperately hoping to be wrong.

I might add that the likes of us (ie hardcore Sandy fans) would probably rather have it than not.  I'm hoping my review wasn't too negative and that I didn't put potential buyers off who'd actually be forgiving of the recording's shortcomings.

As I said the show itself is actually strong.

Jules

You haven't put me off Jules.   I'll still buy it, even though the sound isn't great.  I'm a sucker for all things Sandy!

Put off...?  Probably not, but your review has dropped it down my 'priority list'.  I suspect I'll wait until I find a cheap copy now, rather than ordering it straight away.  But I will probably still get it some day...

I think you guys are being a little bit unfair to damn it as 'bootleggy'. Sure, as the LP notes say it was only semi-professionally recorded by the host and there is a mic half way down the hall that was accidently open into the mixing card and it picked up some noises from the other stage. But Jerry has done a great job and it's (in my humble opinion) in a different league to 'Poems From Alexandra' or 'Wild Mountain Thyme'. Just compare the quality of 'Memphis Tennessee' to that version from the same concert on the German GB label 'Savoy Brown/May Blitz/Fotheringay' album. I'd say it's worth adding to any collector's portfolio.

Depends on your understanding of the word "bootleggy". I imagine it to sound a bit like the Fairport "Who Knows" or "Many Ears To Please" releases where the vocals are a bit hollow and echoey. Is that fair?

If so, they are interesting historical artefacts but I don't listen to them often because the sound is not polished enough for my tastes whereas "Before The Moon" being sourced from radio recordings holds up well.

The track I heard sounded like Sandy was singing in another room, and a horrible booming bass, that is impossible to lessen.  I'm still gonna get it though.

I reckon that's fair.



I reckon that's fair too.

Jules

Democracy rules then ...

By the way, I've just seen that the CD has now been listed on Amazon UK at £24.52 but no in-stock dates as yet.

I have carefully read the replies herein and have concluded that this sadly falls into the first category, however well-intentioned.

Twenty-Four Pounds Fifty Two Pence?

Jesus. Talk about wringing the public's gullibility to the full!

If you want to buy it folks, that's up to you of course. But I ain't that fanatical.

Thanks for that, Jules. I should say that the paragraph near the start about the Strawbs was inserted, without my knowledge, by the record company. It's a translation into none too idiomatic English of part of their German text -- not my words, and certainly not my opinions.

I agree with the general opinion about the disappointing sound quality.

Talking heffalump have the cd for £15 and for those of you who like scratches and pops the vinyl version is a mere 23 dabs
a tad expensive doncha think?

I grossly overpaid for this item due to impatience.  I ordered it from Amazon.de and wound up paying about $50 USD.  Definitely not worth that much.  I think Talking Elephant is offering it for much less right now.

If you must have it, hold out for the lowest possible price.  The sound quality straddles the border between an audience recording and an extremely low-fi professional recording.  I haven't listened with headphones, but it sounds like mono to me, recorded by remote microphones, with little separation between the instruments and voices.  This artifact is essential only for the song selection - where else can I get live versions of Eppie Moray and The Way I Feel?

Will we ever get the balance of the Rotterdam concert?  The bonus tracks on the CD reissue of the first album are gorgeously performed and recorded.  

Their whole set was on disc 14 of the monster box that came out last year.

So its on itunes then?

Yes, but only in the UK, which isn't much help to John from Austin:
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/sandy-denny-complete-edition/id399636518

Here's the Rotterdam material on the box set (Mrs. John From Austin gave it to me for Christmas):

8. The Sea (Live Holland Festival, Rotterdam 1970) (Previously Unreleased)
9. Two Weeks Last Summer (Live Holland Festival, Rotterdam 1970)
10. Nothing More (Live Holland Festival, Rotterdam 1970)
11. Banks of the Nile (Live Holland Festival, Rotterdam 1970)
12. Memphis Tennessee (live Holland Festival, Rotterdam 1970)
13. Trouble (live Holland Festival, Rotterdam 1970) (Previously Unreleased)

Was this really the entire set?  Six songs?  Boohoo.

Hello, Andrew Batt of SD boxset 'fame' here :)

I must say I'm really surprised at some of the negative responses to Essen 1970, and do advise fans to give this release a chance as in my opinion the band are on great form, and Sandy sings beautifully- indeed i would go as far as saying that on tracks like 'Nothing More' she comfortably surpasses all other released versions. Sandy's phrasing throughout is wonderful and much more intricate than on other performances, and she sings with real intensity, particularly on tracks like 'The Sea' and 'John the Gun'.

This concert knocks spots of the Rotterdam performance from earlier in the year (just compare the versions of Memphis Tennessee, Nothing More and The Sea- there really is no contest!), Although Rotterdam was recorded on 6 track, (whereas Essen is only two track), I still think Essen is the superior more essential recording- Aside from the bands performance being less good at Rotterdam, the recording suffers from being outdoors and the audience sounding a mile away- even with the less good audio quality to my ears the Essen performance has more concert atmosphere.

The sound is obviously a bone of contention, but Jerry D has really worked wonders with it, and I think that the scarcity of Fotheringay live performances means this release is a must for Sandy collectors and justifies its release. I suppose it comes down to taste, but i think this is quite an important release for Sandy fans, particularly as it gives us our first commercially available live versions of some songs. Granted this is not a BBC audio quality broadcast, but the sound is far from gruesome and i find it quite satisfactory and well worth investing in. Fans familiar with the Fairport releases 'Who Knows?' and 'Many Ears to Please' will find this recording of a similar audio quality, where interesting concerts recorded in the auditorium or of the desk have been spruced up for release. Every effort was made to make this a quality release; Aside from Jerry D's mastering magic, Philip Ward wrote some excellent sleeve notes and effort the release has a good cover and a booklet with some interesting photographs.

The CD and LP should be available more widely in the coming months, and therefore cheaper to ship. Talking Elephant have it for sale now here: http://www.talkingelephant.co.uk/titles/htd_title.php?Title_Ref=232009&Genre_id=&Artist_Ref=22169&HTD_Store_id=12&Search_id=2&Letter=F

'Nothing More' from Essen 1970 can be heard at the Fotheringay MySpace page here: http://www.myspace.com/fotheringaytheband

best

A

PS someone mentioned about the other tracks from the Rotterdam performance- Only the songs that Sandy sang appeared on the boxset, also recorded were Trevor's songs Too Much of Nothing, Way i Feel (Trevor on solo vox) and The Ballad of Ned Kelly.

Thanks, Andy, for the perspective, the link, and the Rotterdam info.  I'm going to obtain this for sure and I can't believe how easy it is through Talking Elephant's site even from the USA (checkout takes you straight to Paypal, no need to become a T.E. member or anything).  Alas, still weighing the cost.  

Of course it's quite reasonable in the event this goes out of print after awhile.  And it's got about my favorite three Trevor tunes on it:  Eppie Moray, Too Much of Nothing, and Ned Kelly.

I got an e-mail from them yesterday saying they couldn't supply it. I ordered it on 6th May & am not impressed that they took this long to tell me they couldn't supply it, as this seriously hampers my chances of getting a copy elsewhere. That's assuming it ever got realeased at all of course.

Dave

No copies were pressed, I'm hearing

Hi Dave,

RE: The Lost broadcast CD/DVD i can confirm that sadly this won't be coming out; it looked like it would for awhile but now it is definitely cancelled. The back story is that the company involved planned a whole series of issues from the archive of 'Beat Club' and they neglected to clear any publishing rights- faced with a massive bill they ended up pulling the plug on the whole series; negotiations went on for awhile but a financial settlement couldn't be reached hence the delay in suppliers letting people know- they simply didn't know themselves as the release date kept getting delayed whilst a resolution was sought.
The Fotheringay release never got as far as production, so there aren't even any 'promo' copies around.

best

Andrew

Having lived with Essen 1970 for the last week or so (thanks to the very kind generosity of one of this parish, someone standing not exactly a million miles away from the release) I can say the following:

-It's a very strong performance, although imho more from Trevor's point of view, than Sandy's.
-The sound is on first listen, disappointing for an official release, although it has been well tweeked into as much shape as possible. Having said that, if it had just been uploaded to Dime or elsewhere one would be leaping around the place pontificating about a wonderful recording that had just appeared on the scene.
-How young they all are!
-Great notes, Philip...
-Fave tracks - TWIF, Ned, JtG.

Recommended  :)

way too dear though and still tough to track down

Until you said that I had no idea actually, Jim.  Yes, clearly that's an, er, issue...

Talking heffalump are advertising it as £15 amazon only have it on the marketplace at £22
mind you TH sent me an email with horslips cds for £9 but when you order them they are still £11
they need to sort themselves out

With TH, you have to click on the email packshot to get those prices - going direct to website doesn't show those prices!

I agree with most of this - about Trevor, and about how if it was a boot I'd rate it higher than I do as an official release....yet I still can't bring myself to use the "recommended" word.

Jules

I wish these video's would be full length.It's nice to see them but they kind of make me angry cause there just snippets.
http://youtu.be/RfQmRTZYVrE

This is full length but not sure if its that Beat Club video, certainly worth the visit though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00hpupoh4eU&feature=related

Wonderful stuff.Thanks.