TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Mojo are doing a How To Buy feature on Sandy Denny next month.  They will be compiling a Top 10.  Yes, a Top 10 for Sandy.  She barely released that many records in her lifetime!

Nevertheless, they're asking for us to email in our Top 5s to mojo (at) bauermedia.co.uk

Here's mine:-

1) Fairport Convention/Liege & Lief - A true landmark album.  The birth of British electric folk music.  A solid masterpiece beginning to end.

2) Sandy Denny/Sandy - The standout of her solo LPs.  All her various strengths are on display here, and Trevor Lucas's production in this instance is perfectly judged.

3) Sandy Denny/The North Star Grassman & The Ravens - Her debut solo album remains one of her best.  Includes some of her finest performances.

4) Fotheringay/Fotheringay - Sandy included some of her finest compositions on this overlooked gem.  The Pond And The Stream and The Sea are a perfect pair of watery meditations.

5) Fairport Convention/Unhalfbricking - Somewhat lacking in cohesion, it does however include Sandy's signature tune, Who Knows Where The Time Goes, which is as lovely song as anyone has ever written.  Also includes the epic A Sailor's Life.

One to avoid:-

Sandy Denny/19 Rupert Street - They are unearthing so much previously unreleased Sandy Denny material of late (indeed this Top 10 would be impossible to compile if they hadn't), that sooner or later the sound of barrel scraping was bound to become audible.  And here it is.  Even completists are thinking twice about this collection of lo-fi informal recordings.

Jules

Five is a stretch isn't it. Mine would be (possibly controversially)

1. Gold Dust. The voice is fading. The backing has been (tastefully) tinkered with many years after the event but it is still the Sandy record that I return to most often.

2. The Best of Sandy Denny. I know, I know, it is a compilation so it is cheating but it is a damn fine one and covers most of the essential bases from her entire career.

3. Fotheringay. Perhaps her crowning achievement in the studio. A natural progression from her work with Fairport and perhaps where they would have gone had she stayed when Ashley Hutchings left.

4. Sandy for all of the reasons Jules has already mentioned.

5. Rising For The Moon for the title track and One More Chance, unaccountably missing from The Best Of. I can't conceive of a Sandy collection without those two songs.

One to avoid: Sandy & The Strawbs. One for the archivists. Interesting as a historical artifact but neither especially representative of Sandy's gifts or particularly enjoyable.

Totally cheating here, but one of the finest starter packs on Sandy is the 2cd compilation The Music Weaver:Sandy Denny Remembered - it covers Fairport, Fotheringay, Solo stuff, BBC sessions and also contains The Battle Of Evermore (her biggest ever recording)...

Have to disagree, Al, But then, I came to Sandy via the Strawbs before I got to Fairport. Even now, with much more familiarity with all of her material, I have a great love for S&TS -All our Own Work. I love the kicking start to songs like 'On my Way' 'All I need is You', and I love  the beautiful, string-adorned Stay Awhile'. I even like DAve's embarrassing indiscretion 'How everyone but Sam etc.' Sandy's voice on this album is as good as it ever was, and the naivete of the material, if that's what it is, gives it an edge. Something to do with artists taking their greatest risks when young, I feel.

1. Liege & Lief - as close to folkrock perfection as anyone will ever get IMHO
2. Rising For the Moon - the title track, One More Chance and White Dress being my favourites
3. The BBC Sessions CD on (I think) Strange Fruit  - just because I managed to get one before it was deleted; raw and unadorned
4. Gold Dust - for much the same reasons as Al
5. Like An Old-Fashioned Waltz - for the title track, Solo (my 2nd favourite Sandy song after WKWTTG),  and I just love Whispering Grass!

I'd also recommend last year's Thea Gilmore/Sandy project as an intro for people coming to Sandy's work from a position outside of folk or rock.

I've not heard the Rupert St album, but it seems to be one that many people don't rate that highly.

1. North Star Grassman and the Ravens. Surely not an album of greatest hits, but the most excentric record she eve made. It has an atmosphere that has never been equalled on any other of her albums. Although Like an Old Fashioned Waltz has something of an atmosphere as well. Next time around still almost brings me to tears.
2. Unhalfbricking. Sandy on her absolute top as a singer. WKWTTG and A Sailors Life (the REAL start of folkrock).
3. Fotheringay (1). Consistent is the word. Not one weak song (a least not by Sandy..)
4. Like an Old Fashioned Waltz. The title song's lyrics at first seem pink and sweet. But there's a dark side to them. And of course No End, one of her best songs ever. Never mind the two jazz classics.
5. Live at the BBC. Mainly because of disc 2 'In Concert'. Contains 7 songs recorded at the Paris Theatre, Together with the Ebbets field recordings these rank among the best live tracks by Sandy available to us.

--
greetings from Holland,
Hans Valk

1. 'The North Star Grassman and The Ravens' - contains 'Late November'.  For that sublime track alone I would rate it as a must have.

2. 'Rising for The Moon', for the title track, 'After Halloween' and the lovely 'White Dress'

3. 'Sandy' for being an all round brilliant album - but especially for 'Listen, Listen' and 'The Quiet Joys of Brotherhood'

4. 'Liege and Lief' for all the reasons ever given for cherishing this album.

5. 'Who Knows Where The Time Goes' should be on any list of great Sandy Denny songs, so for that one reason 'Unhalfbricking' is my number 5

1) Who Knows Where the Time Goes (3 CD set).  Kind of cheating, because it is a compilation.  Though, I guess if this one's cheating, so is the BBC set  ;)  I love the version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door.  I think it's with Fairport, but I'd have to double check.  Just a good selection at times.  I've heard/read complaints that the choice and order is a little random, but I like that about it.
2) Gold Dust.  Can't really add anything to what others have written.
3) Sandy.  "Bushes and Briars," "It Suits Me Well" and pretty much every song on the album.
4) The North Star Grassman and The Ravens.  Again, can't really add to what others have written.
5) Before the Moon. O.k., very much a Fairport album, and has lots of instrumentals and extended jams.  But it also has some great Sandy solo spots, just her and the piano.  Just really great, I love it because it saws all facets of Fairport at that time, including Sandy.  

1.  Liege and Lief for the reasons stated above

2.  Unhalfbricking for the reasons stated above

3.  Rising for the Moon - the title track and One More Chance (one of my favourite CD vocal performances)

4.  Fotheringay - 1st album

4. North Star Grassman [imho SD never made a truly consistent album away from the confines of a band..]

I'd argue that she didn't manage it at all, Liege & Lief excepted, though Sandy comes closest for me.  Plenty of 'nearly there's though.

Jules

That would be my top five too - in that order.

1. What we did on Our Holidays (She moves through Fair: one of her best studio performances)

2. FC BBC (all the old Heyday stuff, plus '75 lineup...)

3. Fotheringay

4. Liege and Lief

5. North Star (nicely under-produced, with RT as a real collaborator)

Ignoring compilations (the 19 CD box would always win then)

1. Holidays
2. Unhalfbricking
3. North Star
4. Liege and Lief
5. Sandy

1.  Liege and Lief

2. Northstar Grassmen

2.  Unhalfbricking

3.  Rising for the Moon - the title track and One More Chance (one of my favourite CD vocal performances)

4.  Fotheringay Essen 1970*


*This might be because its 'new', and could easily be replaced with Ebbets field, but I will go with it for now,

Really?!?!  The sound quality doesn't put you off at all?

Jules

1. SAndy.

2. North Star Grassman.

3. Sandy and the Strawbs.

4. Holidays.

5. Unhalfbricking.

Rising for the Moon a very close runner up. If only for 'One More Chance' - great performance.

The highlight of that album for me also.

Jules

I've just these two...which I adore! :)

"No More Sad Refrains" Anthology...A really nice (and great value!) sampler covering all points of Sandys career...There is obviously going to be some duplicating of tracks though if you decide to go ahead and buy the individual records !

"The North Star Grassman and The Ravens" Deluxe edition...Listened to this last night...Completely essential, and the bonus tracks are mostly wonderful !

I think I will treat myself to "Sandy" Deluxe edition which is released in May, and then probably leave it at that...I think ?... :-\

I've never been a completist of any artist...but sometimes it's quite hard to resist... ::)

PS...Ooops...Almost forgot Fairports "Liege and Lief"...Sublime !

deffo
1 Rising for the moon (White Dress and One more Chance)
 I find those two make the hair on my arms stand up

2 Holidays ALways my fave version of MOTL..
hte one I hear whenever its played

3)  Liege and Leif with the brill Tam lin

4 Unhalfbricking for WKWTTG and Percy's Song

5) Listen Listen
    Has a fair representation of Sandys work including The Music Weaver
    and Like an Old fashioned Waltz

I note that Rendezvous has had no references, probably quite rightly, given the arrangements, but for me the quality of Sandy's song-writing was never stronger, and Full Moon, added as a bonus track to later releases is a beautiful piece. It captures her approach to phrasing so well and the matching of her voice and the clarinet of Mr Bernard Stanley Bilk is perfection.

I nearly put it joint runner- up with Rising for the Moon. Yes, it's overproduced, but 'All Our Days' is beautiful, to me, and the album gets as many plays chez moi as the other Sandy solo albums.

Me too re Rendezvous - I love some of the songwriting. Full Moon I think is one of the most amazing tracks ever - the whole arrangement. Rendezvous is almost like her best and worst solo album, all at once.

J

And the results are...

10/ A boxful of treasures
9/ Rendezvous
8/ Rising for the moon
7/ The North star grassman and the ravens
6/ Fotheringay
5/ The best of the BBC sessions
4/ Sandy
3/ Unhalfbricking
2/ Like an old fashioned waltz
1/ Liege and lief (no surprise there then!)


Avoid...
19 Rupert St.
Sandy & Johnny
Gold dust : live at the Royalty.

That is just idiocy imho. I appreciate that it is controversial but it is by no means one to avoid.

And I do wonder if all roads always have to lead to Liege & Lief? I doubt that Sandy would have regarded it as her own artistic highpoint, being much more a product of Ashley Hutchings' vision.

Yes they do. 'Cos it's brilliant.   8)

Jules

And I do wonder if all roads always have to lead to Liege & Lief? I doubt that Sandy would have regarded it as her own artistic highpoint, being much more a product of Ashley Hutchings' vision.

IMHO, it's the bell-like purity of her voice in recordings dating from 1968-1970 (Heyday, WWDOOH, UH, L&L, Fotheringay, "Battle of Evermore").  That's what hooked me and I assume a few others.  Her maturation as a songwriter coincided with a slow but relentless degradation of her singing voice (again, IMHO). "After Halloween" and "I'm a Dreamer" are spectacular songs that are not as well-sung as "She Moves Through the Fair" and "Banks of the Nile."  All my humble opinion...

I think you're spot on..

--
Greetings from Holland,
Hans Valk

You may have nailed why I prefer Sandy post Fairport (or at least post 1969) and equally why with the exception of WIDOMH I prefer Fairport post Sandy. I am not keen on pure voices. I prefer a more fractured, less perfect vocal sound.

By the same token and by way of illustration I hold Joan Baez to have been a much better singer since the mid 70s when she developed some smoke & grit in her voice than she was in the 60s.

These are all very good points, and I certainly don't dismiss any of them.  But Liege & Lief is still a landmark work of staggering collective genius, and there's simply no getting round that!   8)

Jules

And my 6th or 7th favourite Fairport album!   ;D

Heretic!

Jules

Agree with both statements. Avoid the Royalty Concert Cd? Why not just shoot yerself or give up on music?

I always feel a bit let down by LandL, apart from the odd track.

I suppose we can’t cite the humungous Box Set as #1 as that’s cheating …. so, for me:

1.  Fotheringay – at her very best;  ‘Banks of the Nile’ must be one of the best pieces of this genre of music to be ever recorded
2.  All Our Own Work – for no other reason that it contains probably the best version of ‘Who Knows Where The Time Goes’, although close are the versions broadcast on 4 February 1969 on ‘Symonds on Sunday’, or the outtake on the bootleg ‘Unhalfbricking Sessions’
3.  Unhalfbricking – because of ‘A Sailor’s Life’ that was that mutation that led to the classic ‘Liege and Lief’
4.  Sandy – easily the best of her solo albums
5.  Rising for the Moon – very underrated and represents her second term with Fairport.

Many may disagree, but that’s my best shot ….

Anybody subscribe to Mojo?  They must have published their version of this list by now.

Jules

Yes they have. As per Martin F's post of April 20 and my slightly indignant response.

The Mojo Top Ten is:

10. Boxful Of Treasures
9. Rendezvous
8. Rising For The Moon
7. Northstar Grassman And The Ravens
6. Fotheringay
5. Best Of the BBC Recordings
4. Sandy
3. Unhalfbricking
2. Like An Old Fashioned Waltz
1. Liege & Lief

It says to avoid:
19 Rupert St
Sandy & Johnny
Gold Dust - Live At The Royalty

Doh!  Sorry, that slipped me by.

Jules

...Waltz at #2 really surprises me.  Precious few folks that I know (my pal Nick aside) put it up there with the best of Sandy.

Jules

Very surprising, I can't see how anyone could rate Waltz above Sandy or Northstar.

Yes, I gave Waltz a rare listen very recently, and felt,as I always tend to, that it was just about okay. The word 'lacklustre', which I dislike, unfortunately springs to mind. The arrangements, by harry Robinson, just about carry the album. And I like 'No End' (also available in very good demo form elsewhere), which must be one of the saddest songs Sandy ever wrote.

Isn't the Mojo guide crowdsourced? In which case it would imply that most people rated Waltz above Sandy et al?

That's what I figured - hence my astonishment.

Jules

Well, most of the people who read Mojo and bothered to respond rated Waltz higher than Sandy, etc.

I admit to rather liking it; whether its better or worse than Sandy's other albums is immaterial to me - I enjoy listening to it more than some and less than others.

(only just noticed this)

Yes, its strange - I don't mind the quality at all, and they have done a great job of cleaning it up.

I much prefer it to 'Gold Dust', where for most of the album Sandy sounds shrill to my ears.