TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

It's been a while since we heard anytning, hasn't it?
Anyone who know anything about it?
Is it recorded, titled, designed? Is it due 2014? Any news out there?
Sweden is waiting, you know.  :) 8)

2015 was the last I heard.

Winter Tour 2015 would be the obvious time, posdibly with Xmas sales if its ready...

To be called Myths and Heroes?

Miss Anne.....her 'oss (this only works in the Black Country)

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It took a while but I got there , and I lived in Exeter for 3 years. ;D

You're only making it worse ;D

I was born in Exeter, not that that is any help.

Has he set a timelimit for putting us out of our misery?

It's the way he said it... strong accent...

Apart from the title track, P J Wright's "Home" and Anna Ryder's feather song seem certainties for inclusion.

Thanks, Jen. Got it at last ;D

Thanks folks!
Some titles and some guesses about the release date.
And some Black Country accent.  :)
Let us hope for 2014 anyway.

 I am reliably informed that the CD should be back from manufacturing at the start of the Wintour. Thus it should be on the merch desk. No guarantees, though.

The actual release date will be a few weeks later.

Ok probably true then.
I was hoping for Christmas release at the Fairport web shop and actual release at the wintour.
But what's another couples of months.  :P

Yes, probably true.....  ::)

They played some new stuff whilst in Holland late September. One was -to me- one of those rare tracks which felt instantly fantastic, and this was PJ Wright's "Home".

Isn't the money better divided by 6? I'd start the Get PJ In Fairport crusade here. That guy is g-o-o-d.

1/2 page ad for the 2015 Wintour includes a shot of the Myths & Heroes sleeve - a pastiche of the Full House sleeve.

To quote the ad: "The first collection of new songs and tunes for 4 years. Released on 2 March. Pre-release copies on sale at all tour dates."

Ok. I've tried to find said ad but I can't find it anywhere. Whereabouts did you find this? :P

Sorry! I thought I'd said it was in Uncut mag... page 61.

I guess it'll be doing its own tour of various other music mags & supplements!

Probably not in "Metal Hammer" though.  ;)

Not exactly earth-shattering news, but I like the sound of the new guy... 'Simon McNicol says: “Fairport always looks to the future and we regularly record new albums. But our first love is still performing live. So we're really looking forward to getting on the road again, especially as this year we've got a whole album's worth of new material to introduce to our audiences."'

http://prog.teamrock.com/news/2014-11-12/fairport-convention-myths-heroes-album-tour

I suspect it's a generic press release...

http://www.grandaxemusic.com/25/9-axenews/983-fairport-back-with-myths-heroes

Oh! He was great in Princess Bride!


Wait, that was Peter ...

"...their first album of fresh material..."   ::)

I am somewhat less than impressed by the cover

Who did they let loose with Photoshop?

I'm glad I'm not alone.  To describe it as '6th form' would be an insult to most students.

According to the FC website it was Mick Toole, who's been creating their album sleeves and programmes for a long time now...

The colour and font are reminiscent of "Full House"
I doubt the content will be

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/mick-toole-mn0001870729/credits

I like the artwork better than Sense Of Occasion. I also like that according to the Fairport newsletter it consists of 13 new songs, which I take to mean will have no retreads of older songs such as has been happening on the last few studio albums.

The artwork's not great, and deliberately doing it in the style of Full House is a hostage to fortune.  But the artwork hasn't been great for a while.  Over The Next Hill was perhaps the best, with its echoing of old railway posters, but it didn't quite come off, and again had an unfortunate title.

I've got a pathological aversion to 'silly'/comedy caper type covers. I guess I find it difficult to take the contents seriously when the musicians aren't.  It seems to be a particular problem with many 'folk' artists...

Morris On, anybody?

Jules

Nah, none of 'em are smiling on the cover.  Deadly serious stuff...

Shocking isn't it? Quite why they think that is good enough is beyond me.

I didn't like Festival Bell as an album but at least the cover was good, this is simply awful - as for the music, we shall await ...

DW

I prefer it to the cover for Sense Of Occasion.  I really dislike that kind of art.  This one's quite amusing.  I'm not nearly as offended by it as many of you.  So, what was the last really good Fairport album cover?  I reckon you'd have to go quite a way back in time....

Jules

Just in case anybody was having a hard time finding the album art...

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Gladys Leap?

I'm not offended by it either but I agree with you on Sense Of Occasion. I thought Festival Bell was simple, but worked as a cover. Your question could probably be a separate thread. I liked The Wood & The Wire, WKWTTG and Red & Gold. The simple portrait on The Five Seasons was good too in its simplicity. Should also be mentioned that Fairport are running a contest for guessing who the portraits represent. Winner gets an autographed copy and free Cropredy tickets for 2015.

Peggy = Rick Danko

It gets worse the more i see it

Oof.  :-\

I think Simon's da Vinci and maybe Gerry is doing some sort of Stanley/Livingstone thing. I've no idea what the hell Ric is doing though.

I should also say that, while it may not rank among the 'greats', I'm with those that aren't too bothered by it. Nothing wrong with trying to have a bit of fun.  :)

Ric seems to be a martial arts buddhist type of thing.

The weird thing about the competition is that you don't send an email with your answers but post them in the comments on the Myths & Heroes article on the site.  So if you want to know what the consensus is you can just pop over and look before submitting your answer.

That cover is utterly *ghastly*.

H

I don't really care about the cover, it's the music that's important!

going on past form, i dont hold much hope for that either

Left to Right: Grandad from Only Fools and Horses, Dave out of Chas and Dave, Hong Kong Phooey, Sir Henry at Rawlinson's End and Trevor Bolder.
Hope this helps...  [;-)

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We have a winner!

I am not quite convinced whether the cover isn't just a joke.
I mean it is a joke, but ... that it is not the actual cover.  :-\
It's not, isn't it?

Yay! It's my sideburns!!

I'm afraid it is.

Don't be afraid David  ;)
There have been many CD covers that I absolutely hate (Not only Fairport but other bands too)
It never stops me buying the CD, some of which I have quite liked despite the covers  :D..   

I also do not really care about the cover, not anymore, years ago I bought a lot of albums with absolutely wonderful covers but the music was awful, so covers are not anything to go by.  For those of you who don't like it, be glad that it is a cd cover not a big lp one.

Or buy the download (assuming there will be one).

I agree to some extent but surely there should be a level of care apparent about the whole package - music, design, notes etc etc. For one of those to be shoddy does have a negative effect on the whole as far as I am concerned and a cover which looks like it has been knocked up in a photoshop training session doesn't demonstrate a great deal of care IMHO.

DW

From the Fairport website:

"To illustrate the cover of Myths and Heroes, each of us nominated our personal hero - mythical or otherwise - and artist Mick Toole (Fairport's long-time graphic designer) morphed our heroes into us. "

Mick Toole seems to be a very experienced artist and has created loads of album covers for all sorts of musicians. Fairport must be happy with the result.....  :-\

And horrified by how its been received?
 I hope so, but it's probably too late to change now.

How many times after you bought the cd have you sat and perused the cd cover apart from the notes. Its whats on it (in musical terms) that matters, put it in a plain white cover, if it sounds good it gets played.

Actually if you want to get radio plays, you have to 'look good'.
A lot of producers will only consider what appears to be a professional product and they will judge a CD by it's cover.

Unless you are preaching to the converted, which Fairport are, the first step is to catch peoples eye and make them open the box, then maybe they will play it.

To be fair, they may be preaching to the converted here, but most radio producers remain ignorant.

Actually I find a plain black cover that you can see your reflection on both sides, with no name or title anywhere would be a really great concept. :)

Where's the "like" button?

None more black.

Off topic I know, but wasn't 'Wish You Were Here' released in a totally black wrapper? Although I think the record company bottled out and put a sticker on it.

Correct, on both counts.

And The Velvet Underground's White Light/White Heat originally had a black illustration on a black background.  Very hard to make it out on most copies.

Jules

Wasn't that the Tap's 'Smell the Glove'?

Slippy 8)

You beat me to it  ;D

I was taking that much as read!

Jules

Did nobody get this?  ;)

Oh I got it Al, no worries

To me the new album cover looks like a pastiche of Fleetwood Macs return. There is a definite Mick Fleetwood in Peggy (I won't upset the rest of the band with who I think matches who).
The music needs to be an improvement on recent years too, as FP really don't seem to have been trying very hard of late (On stage at Cropredy this year was a BIG disappointment).

Don't like the cover? Ain't that what downloads are for?  ;D

 Happy new year folks, Here it is,http:// http://www.fairportconvention.com/catalogue.php?cmsCategoryID=9&DisplayType=DisplayCatContents

Actually http://fairportconvention.com/catalogue.php?cmsCategoryID=10&cmsProductID=316&DisplayType=DisplayProdDetails

Not sure how or why etc.. but thanks Andy for the correction.

2015 has started badly already... I keep being told I have nothing in my basket, even though I've followed the process through several times.. I'm obviously doing something wrong.  :(

That's just happened to me too, after (apparently) paying by PayPal. I don't think the PayPal payment went through, though; it hasn't shown up on my account, and I've had no acknowledgement by email. Peculiar ....

Mine was via Paypal too. Obviously a gremlin in the works

Mick, I'm having the same trouble. The Internet gremlins are about today.

I'll try again later. (Maybe on a different PC)

Keith

Well, I've just managed it now and have received an email acknowledging the order and a receipt from Paypal.

Mine has worked too now. (Using same PC)

Thanks, Keith

Worked for me too now.

... and the samples are now working.  :D

Do you have to order it to hear the samples?

No, I don't think so.

That's right Mick. I'll probably buy my copy at the Tewkesbury gig.

For the first time I wish I was a downloader and not an old *** who enjoys his physical album and disc.
I didn 't think it was for real when I saw the cover the first time, but as you all have pointed out so correctly: it's the music that counts. ;)

I've just listened to the samples without ordering, via http://www.fairportconvention.com/catalogue.php?cmsCategoryID=9&DisplayType=DisplayCatContents

They're only short excerpts but overall impression is - intriguing.

Seerms to be more electric guitar than in recent times / a few extra instruments including harmonica and what sounds like sax / song structure of many of them is interesting / not an excess of "twee" overall to my ears... / some including Fylde Mountain Thyme might take a few listens to get into.

Hmm!

Me too, actually. I still go for physical product, and have yet to download anything. The time will come, and i hope it's before I'm found, a skeleton,  behind a moutain of records and CDs in my home.   'Gosh, poor guy,  I wonder how long he's been there'.  ;D

I'm not entirely sure what the issue with the cover is  ???

Fair enough, it's not worthy of a place in the National Gallery, but it's not the worst cover ever* I don't even think it's the worst Fairport album cover**

(*I give Bruce Springsteen that honour, for every cover of every album he's ever released!)

(**Step forward Sense Of Occasion! you stand there just in front of Rising For The Moon...)

If you want bad album covers, have a sift through here (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=worst+album+covers+of+all+time&qpvt=worst+album+covers+of+all+time&FORM=IGRE). See? It's all relative really.

Cheers

Nick

A bit harsh on Mr Springsteen.  Born To Run is iconic and several others pretty decent, though High Hopes, aka the Shakin' Stevens years, is dire, as are several others.

Thankfully I don't recognise any of them as my relatives!

The worst Fairport album covers are probably Rosie or Tippler's Tales. I'm fond of the majority of their album sleeves, though (even Rising For The Moon), some of them are iconic.
As for the new album cover, I think it would've looked better with illustrations depicting the band as their heroes, instead of the poorly-executed photo-shop exercise they've gone with. At least the content sounds ok from the samples...

Just checked I haven't said this already but I have always had a thing with 'folk music' being seen as a bit of a joke by the mainstream..when of course, the music wasn't. Fairports on Top of the Pops, Steeleye wandering around in nylon, mock medieval costumes, Day trip to Bangor video, Ken Russells Fairport film when he had them stereotypically with tankards , morris dancing etc etc. The music may be great but that cover ain't going to bring a new audience in, imho

It's available to order on the Proper Music website for £10.99, free P&P within the UK. Better to buy from a genuine UK business than an internet giant!

I quite like both of those!

Jules

The cover to Rosie is no worse than the album inside.  ;D

Oh, come on - it's better than that!   ;D

(see also: Gottle O'Geer)

Jules

Ah but what about the well-acknowledged artistic highpoint which is the front cover of the original release of "Live at the LA Troubadour"?!?

Now that is a low point ! Forgot about that one as I have the 2000's reissue (Picture attached in case anyone's forgotten  ;) )

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Yup, that one's shockingly bad!

(Yet I was still chuffed to find that my Japanese import expanded CD of House Full included it as an alternate front cover.)

Jules

Listen to the music. Like it or dislike it. The cover art is irrelevant - I can't remember the last time I had a "real" CD in the car, I build compilations and listen to them. Even when I'm listening to a "real" CD, I don't usually peruse the cover, especially when I'm driving.

I have just got the Rails CD and a CSN box set, both of which I've enjoyed reading the liner notes. Particularly CSN, which are extensive....... but as you say, not in the car.

Actually, I do remember playing the Moulette's CD on the way back from Cropredy 2013. Proper job, that CD is.

I agree that the music's the most important thing, but not that the cover is irrelevant.  Ideally, I like great music art covered in great photographic or pictorial art.  Great covers become part of the culture.

Jules

Great covers do indeed become part of the culture. Haven't seen one in years. Mind you, haven't looked for them.

I think there's a wider thing here Andy and I will use the age word. I am of the generation who bought a LP(!) album, tape, CD and listened to it all the way through. I have just been re-dipping in to Joe Boyd's book and there is a section on a bloke whose job it was to sequence an album. 3rd song in will be slower, what do you start side 2 with etc. These days are gone but why would a band produce an album when people are now just going to pick one or 2 tracks and even just download those 2 tracks? We have a large cupboard of a lot of CD's, we have been talking of getting rid of them and putting everything on laptop. This frightens me!
When I put a CD on in the car I listen to the whole album. One of the joys of going off in the van is deciding what music will be the soundtrack to a few weeks journey. When we go to a gig we pick the albums for the journey, not usually of who we are going to see. If I'm playing a gig, and it's a fair drive, I love picking the music i'll play on the way'. Sad , old fashioned and dinousarish I know but I am of my generation and don't think I can easily adapt.
Got to go to Brum tomorrow. Rails and CSN will be in the car!
Incidentally the Rails cover ain't great ...but it does let you know what they look like!

No, it's not that bad. Actuallly, I still regret selling a vinyl copy many years ago. And I quite like my CD of Gottle of Geer.  8)

The frequency of great cover art has pretty much declined in proportion to the increase of the CD as the main format of choice, now it's pretty pointless, with downloading. Shame. Whatever you may think of, say, Hawkwind, we will never see the likes of the original Space Ritual art again, for example, and that's a sadness.
I do like to listen to an album all the way through as Nature intended, but again, the CD age has produced albums, in the mainstream at least, that only have a few tracks that have lasting value, and pretty much require the home made compilation album to be made...or the playlist in the download era...another sadness.  

I have asked (via the medium of social networking) how FC decided on what would go on the vinyl version of the album, which has nine tracks and doesn't follow the order of the CD at all.
I didn't enquire as to whether the 'signed copy' would involve a pre-signed slip inserted into the gatefold, however.  ::)

There is an age thing definitely, but with vinyl sales on the up - only 1.2m last year but that was a 50% increase - I think there's still a place for great cover art.  And it's not just LPs.  "Genre" music, where direct sales, often at gigs, are important, makes a lot more effort with its packaging than it did a few years ago.  A bog standard jewel case just doesn't cut it any more and there are some great cardboard/didg-pak albums out there - gatefields, nice inserts, great art and so on.  Yes they're smaller than LPs but that's part of the challenge.

So long as artists release work in a block of several pieces of work, whether it constitutes an EP or Album, then they require an identifier for that piece of work. Traditionally, since the LP was invented, this has been a title and a packaging involving details and artwork (or absence in the case of The White Album, for instance). Digital access may appear to mitigate the need for artwork, but the artists still needs some sort of 'flag' that the consumer can recognise so that their new work is distinguishable from prior/competitors' material and hence be encouraged to spend their money. The development of more visual led applications (as an image is more readily discernibly different than text and is language neutral, so not limiting international business) will ensure that album artwork will never be redundant. Tag software that accesses metadata includes an album image, which is displayable on modern network hardware and UPnP apps so that the appropriate album artwork is displayed whatever track is played. The debate regarding vinyl, I believe is a transient one that will become redundant when the ability to play, store and transfer complete audio files is more readily available. So the complex gatefold-based constructs are things of the past, which may be replaced by audio/visual files to deliver the same effect and data.
Therefore, in summary, m'lud, the counsel for the defence would submit that album artwork, though it may be limited to a square of pixels, will perpetuate, is therefore critical to an artist's commercial success and as such, should be of worthy quality and distinctively identifiable with the artist .

I buy the majority of my cd's at gigs these days, so I am buying in response to the music I have just heard, rather than the cover. However, buys at gigs, have had good covers,incl Old Dance School, Blackbeards T Party,Enda Kenny (great cover), Moulettes (beautiful packaging) Luke Jackson,Baskery, Colum Sands and particularly Ange Hardy ( whose album Bare Foot Folk has a beautiful cover which she also supplies as a  beer mat! clever.) Yes , some are just pics of the band but for a new band /artist this makes sense, as Macademis says, it identifies the artist.
Also see Ange's Lament of the Black Sheep cover , also available as a beer mat, with Ange's website etc. The future of Cottage Industry music?

An AGE thing? I'm 59 tomorrow. Is that too old or too young?

Both.

 ;D

Jules

I knew that was going to happen. Age is really the wrong word. I'm coming up 63 and use a laptop, tablet, social media sites etc and i've even downloaded some music , used my,now obsolete, i pod, but still can't  go over to downloading and for some deep seated psychological reason, probably, I do not want music stored on my phone. It's a phone! So it's not age, or even generational, it's just attitude and ability, i.e. being competent and confident in what I am doing.
We got a new kitchen a few months ago, I still go to where the sink used to be! Change eh?
Oh and Happy Birthday Andy.

Playing albums all the way through (be they actual vinyl records or CD's) may be an age thing. Like Hendo I choose CD's when we go on a car trip, and we play them straight through. However I also play what I put on my Ipod straight through. Sure sometimes I skip around, or play from a playlist of my own creation, but I still listen to them all the way. I disagree with you about the days of sequencing an album being gone however. Most bands do start off with the main attraction song, usually the best and fastest, but to give you two examples of doing it differently most of us are familiar with, Fairport started Festival Bell off with the slow building Mercy Bay, rather than something more upbeat. Oysterband started Meet You There off with Over The Water, again not a typical sort of song one starts an album off with, thereby proving that some matter of sequencing still exists, and I could provide many more examples.

As to the Fairport cover, they have had some clinkers for sure over the years (Sense Of Occasion, Gottle, Rosie....Rising For The Moon has never bothered me though), but I am not put off by this one. I liked the simplicity of the Festival Bell cover. Nothing elaborate, just a simple but effective cover. It is their choice, and after nearly 50 years I think they are entitled to it. And since I have not seen this mentioned in this thread, this bucks the trend FC have had for covering older material. I welcome having 13 new songs on an album.

So... I am just completing the final artwork for this here Anthology of 50 years of stuff. Because it is an anthology it is in chronological order, but were it to be the next album of new songs I would have spent a long time making sure the music flowed from one song to anotherand that the finished album was a complete whole.

I have spent a lot of time and effort creating the right artwork that will both appeal and inform and have spent long hours organising the information of tracklistings and timings and as much background to the tracks as possible, within the limitations of space.
The desired result for all the music I release, is that it will not only sound as good as possible but will look beautiful as well and will be a pleasure to listen to and read.

So am I wasting my time? Should I just put the individual tracks up one at a time for downloading and let the listening public decide which order they want to play it in and not bother to create something that is a whole entity?  ???

Not as far as I'm concerned!

(I'm not sure about the yoof market though.)

Jules

Definitely not - Talking With Strangers and Flow & Change both have beautiful artwork (and contents  :) ) ; really looking forward to the anthology...

Jude, I think this is what this whole conversation is about. I'm with you, I want the artwork, i want the thought in 'the flow' of an album, Particularly with an anthology I like some text putting the songs in their context. I think we are on the cusp of the world changing. it may become a download world or certain groups may want to retain a physical entity. As has already been said, a download needs some sort of 'artwork' description attached to it so you can identify with the band.
As an 18 yr old knowing Fairport Convention , the house, was owned by Simon's family seemed important to me at the time, as were the pics in the garden.
Keep doing what you're doing.

Good! I'll carry on and finish it then  ;D

It should be complete by the end of the week then it will be off to the manufacturers  :D

Ideally Dame Judy, you should probably give everyone a copy of the original multitrack tapes so that they can mix it themselves and throw in a bag of felt tips, an A4 jotter, a couple of Pritt sticks and the password to a pre-loaded Photobox(TM) album. There'd still probably be someone complaining you'd used the wrong take of Wiggle Waggle, mind...  ;D  

Sounds like a plan... ::) ;D

Incidentally, I've had to be in today, hence me posting so much........but how lovely to have a protracted conversation on t/awhile about music ::) ;D  

Yes.  Who knew that a bodhrán player would know so much about music?!?!   :o

 ;)

Jules

I was going to be rude but i'll just thank you for the accent over the a in bodhran!
 It's playing the cajon most of the time now that's done it. ???
 I run an open mic where I play with solo artists, if they ask me and last Sunday, this lovely man with £8000 of Lowden guitar, which he can play wonderfully, was doing an RT song and he turned to me and said,'it's in F! Bless him!

I agree with Jules.

Ollie (hoping I still represent the yoof market)

I think you may be an anomaly, Ollie.  (Trying saying that with someone else's teeth in!)

Jules

Saved by the á!



Done what, exactly?   :o

Jules

Jules I'm developing a soft spot for you..................................big bog, Northern Ireland!

Andy, you're still a child. Or was that just a heavy handed reminder?  ::)

Well, at least my brother won't have to travel far when bringing flowers.   :-\

Jules

Like button!

Ollie, I am looking at your album cover (great cover and packaging incidentally) and the one thing it doesn't shout at me is 'Yoof'. Soz ;)

Haha, this is true.

However, you raise a very good point about the role of album artwork for the modern day band or artist. In my opinion, album artwork has a massive effect on people's perceptions of the band/artist - it creates an image. With mine, I wanted it to have a vintage feel (for those who haven't seen it, it can be seen here - http://www.olliekingmusic.com/). I use instruments made in 1930s, a lot of the material I do is traditional, and my style harks back to players in the 60s and 70s. So the vintage style of the album cover reflects a lot about who I am as an artist, thus creating an image (I hope, anyway). I'd never really thought much of any of this before receiving some advice from one of the more prominent PR people on the folk scene (so I'm not talking bullshit), and it's made quite a difference to how seriously people have taken me as a musician.

Looking at the cover of Myths and Heroes, it obviously harks back to Full House, so the band is aware and proud of their history. However, it feels like someone has graffitied on it. The photoshopping is not very well done (Chris in particular), and it just looks a bit tacky. It also doesn't look very serious, which (playing Devil's Advocate here) makes me think the band aren't taking themselves seriously. I could be reading too much into this, true, but when I first saw the cover, I had second thoughts about whether I would buy the album or not. I've listened to the samples, and I'm still not convinced. Sorry chaps.  :-\

Oh, definitely the latter.

Ollie, I agree.I wasn't being sycophantic when I said I liked your album cover. It achieved exactly what you wanted it to and did give the album gravitas.
I agree with your comments on Myths and heroes, I've written earlier in this thread that I am saddened by videos, CD covers etc that devalue the music through tacky humour.
At the same time i would never want to return to the folk fascism of the early 60's. Lots of singers/bands  do serious music but lighten it with banter between the songs. Vin Garbutt would be the master of this.

Ollie I don't have your album yet but I love the cover and totally understand the art you chose for it. Really works well. As to Myths and Heroes, I think the photoshopping was done so in a deliberate cheesy fashion. It is essentially the same gag as the faces of the cricket team on The Cropredy Box. I don't think it devalues music that none of us have heard in its entirety yet (except for the handful of songs Fairport have been performing live). Despite some serious music Fairport have always had a massive sense of humor as a band. I view the cover in that light and it does not bother me. What saddens me is to think that some may be writing off this album before it has been officially released on the basis of the cover and short audio samples. Just like every Fairport album, including the ones I felt missed the mark, I will be purchasing this as an actual CD, which will go on my Ipod, and which will be listened to straight through. If I like it I may even go for the vinyl as well.

I don't mean to be snarky about this to any of you. It is all IMHO of course.

Listened to the excerpts on the website and abit ho-hum overall but does anyone else think the opening of John Condon sounds very like part of the chorus to Paul McCartney's Pipes of Peace?

DW

No offence taken Robert. I think part of this conversation is about whether CD art work influences someone to buy the music. The argument seems to be that if the artwork looks a bit of a joke then the 'product'(!) will be similar. I accept there is no logical corollory between the 2. I have had a similar conversation with Lucy Ward where some of her publicity shots and videos do not , imho, reflect her music. I accept her argument that you can't always do, 'moody folkie looking in to distance on a windswept hill'. .

Not just the CD artwork. I know an agent who sent his band's proposed promo photos back to them with the comment that he wouldn't be able to sell the band based on that look as it was unrepresentative of their style.

I'm not entirely sure that there's a need to be representative of the performers musical style.  Ultimately album art is about selling the album, to everyone from existing hardcore fans to newbies.  So it needs to be "nice/interesting" and while it can be representative of the music it can also be representative of the performer.

Lucy Ward's albums are a great example.  Her promotional material in general doesn't look at all "folkie" but it does give a very strong indication of her as a performer, it's striking and it catches the casual eye.  I think it's also representative of her music, to some extent at least, but I'm going to avoid heading into Pseuds Corner and not attempt to justify that statement.

I can see exactly where Ollie's coming from too and i like his and thinik it works.

The key thing of course in both cases is that its clear that thought, care and effort have gone into the artwork.

Vey well put on all points Jeremy.
IMHO.

Anyone else had a problem with the shop at fairportconvention.com ?

I'm actually attempting to pre-order Myths & Heroes, the system asks me to log into Paypal, when logged in I'm told there's nothing in my basket.
Repeated attempts have proved fruitless, however, nothing's showing on my Paypal account, so at this time it doesn't look like I've accidentally ordered eight copies !

(I've sent FC a message via Faceache about this, I'll update with any reply).

Well, I ordered my copy a couple of days ago.
Had a glitch during the first attempt, tried again right away and then it worked as usual.

It all looks well on the paper/screen but I have to wait and see, if, when and how many copies arrive.
 ;D

Well...you say that...  ;D

[Photo over 400 days old. Removed by Admin.]

Reply from FC Towers :

"We've had a couple of people report this problem Dan but at the same time we have had tons of orders through successfully. Is online ordering EVER easy? If you do have a problem you could always send a cheque to the address below. We'll not receive the CDs until the back end of next week so it won't be any slower.

Fairport Convention Ltd
PO Box 263
Chipping Norton
OX7 9DF

I will of course try and get some sense out of paypal. This could take a while."

I may try again later, and if the same thing happens, I'll hold out 'til the tour and the merch table. No confirmation of any purchase is showing on my Paypal account, so hopefully I haven't ordered eight copies !

I had exactly the same problem, but I tried again and it worked. I've only been charged once!

Think I'll buy the vinyl version when I see them on the Wintour. Although I'm of the opinion that the cover looks a tad 'Tacky'

Anyone else seen Swarb's FB comment on the cover...well, I assume he's talking about the cover, anyway....

Come on, spill!

Jules

From memory: "From Full House to Nobody Home.."

Bitchy, but funny.

Jules

and ultimately quite tragic I would suggest.  :-\

DW

I love that Swarb's last appearance (?) with FC involved nicking Ric's fiddle, and playing a number they hadn't rehearsed. He is simply the best. Long may he run.

sure did
pithy as ever

I wonder if there would be a SwarbAid 111 in the future?

I doubt it, Mr Swarbrick seems to have forgotten about SwarbAid and SwarbAid II pretty quickly...

Do you think that he shouldn't be as trenchant in his criticism because he has been helped out in the past? Surely a robust Swarb is more welcome than a dead one.

Maybe but he could draw a line and move on. To keep making embittered comments is bit juvenile. IMHO

He is of course welcome to express whatever views he wishes but I am beginning to tire of his continual nagging criticism. There comes a time in life to put issues in the past behind you and move on. If you don't past friends are unlikely to remain present friends. I find it all rather sad.

I don't get the humour in Mr Swarb's comment. Will somebody ??? please explain??

I guess he is referring to the fact that the cover of the new album has similarities to that of Full House, and is making a rather sour comment on either the quality of the content or of the performers.

Don't see much humour in it myself, just bitterness, I'm afraid.

Don't be afraid, Will, Swarb's only a little guy.   ;D

Jules

THey say the little guys are the worst.  ;)

I'll tell my 5' 3" husband that....  ;D

That is the way I feel about it too

I have been saddened by Swarbs recent activities, I am not sure where it comes from or what the purpose is but it always seems a little petty. He is however entitled to an opinion whatever it is, as are we all, it just is sad when people who have supported each other musically and personally for so many years are facing this sort of rift.

Swarb gas always been cheeky but this type of comment seems to come from a different source.

Anyway the new cd will be whatever it is. It has always been interesting to me that when I play Fairport to people unfamiliar with the history of the band they are more drawn to the new sound than the old. It seems that 60's/70's folk rock sound is much more of an acquired taste than we realize.

I am looking forward to the lively debate of the merits and demerits of the new cd beyond the quite awful cover.

Neil

There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for the current line up on Swarbrick's FB timeline. To the extent that in a discussion about the cover for the new album, one friend of DS's appears to make the point that if you don't record, release and perform new material then it's inevitable that you end up as your own tribute band.

That makes it sound as if you have a range of husbands of different heights ....

I wonder what other musicians who know him, he performed with etc think about all this.

After seeing them last year I have high hopes for the new cd, they usually keep it simple, not like Steeleye whose later cd's suffer from over arranged songs.

Maybe he finds most of FC's last few records dull and formulaic and thinking of the excellence of the full house record, doesnt want its legacy diminished by another "play once and file" cd by the current line up.

Nail on head.

Maybe. I found it mildly ironic that someone was making the point that bands really should continue to record and release new music on a discussion prompted by the release of an album of new material.

At the risk of being flogged, I am a much bigger fan of the newer records  over the old. Full House---while I like the songs very much---has always sounded to me quite badly recorded. (Although I REALLY enjoy the live House Full, for whatever that's worth.) Wood and the Wire, Jewel in the Crown, the 5 Seasons...love 'em all.

It's a free country, all tastes catered for.
Hang on you just fished me in didn't you!
Respect,you old rascal.

Jewel in the Crown was released in 1995.....

Their last fully satisfying album IMO.

Blimey, that was twenty years ago! And a decade after Swarb left the group.

Oh God no. One is enough!  :o

Analogue warmth, baby, analogue warmth.  John Wood was a class act.

Jules

Never met the man (my loss) but he did some great work, without question.

Was Swarb's comment prompted by anything other than the new Fairport album? Or does he have a new album out too?

His beef, as he explained a couple of weeks earlier than this latest facebook post, was that there was no need to try and copy the Full House album artwork - which he loves - with an embarrassingly dreadful new version. He never mentioned music, people etc. Just the artwork. Why rip it off?

And whilst we're on the subject - when was the last decent bit of album artwork from Fairport? Probably was Full House...!

That question was already raised (by me).  I may well be in agreement with your initial suggestion.

Jules

As much as I love Swarb as a great fiddler and all round musician and for his part in Fairport's history (as well as the history of folk rock generally) his recent slagging off of anything that's come from Fairport has been childish and unnecessary. This is a very sad state of affairs that seems to be based on some perceived insult over the 'Fairport by Fairport' book. Get over it and move on. There are plenty of people who love Fairport past AND present, including myself, who are thoroughly cheesed off with all this.

Completely agree Mick. That's how I feel too.

With you both on that

Yup - with great sadness, me too.

I think it goes a bit deeper than that.  Remember the Barbican in 2009 as well....

No - what happened there?

Jules

Swarb was lined up to play but then pulled out at the last minute citing lack of rehearsal time/communication problems etc.  Leslie sat in on the Swarb material (and did a bloody good job too).  Problems have been brewing for years, I think...long before that excremental 'biography' finished things off.  But yeah, it is very sad...but then families have their ups and their downs....

Ah, yes, it's coming back to me now.  Ta for the reminder.

Jules

The Barbican was a Joe Boyd curated thing, wasn't it? I get the impression there's another character he feels slighted by.

Indeed.  I think Swarb talked about Joe when we was a TAW guest, didn't he?

Jules

Although, funnily enough, he said something rather positive about him on FB not long ago, I think...I remember being quite surprised by it (although I can't find it now).

Wonder what he thinks about Glyn Johns all these years later. He had much to say about him too over the years about Rising For The Moon. Maybe that wound has healed, I'm not entirely sure.

And the Cropredy 2007 DVD. Some of the best bits of that gig were missed off because Swarb refused to appear on it (quibble over money, I think).

He implied he wanted to be paid and this wasn't available. I wasn't actually there to hear what was said, I have no idea. Only a few people will actually know. You could always ask him.

How sad.  :(

However, discontent seems to have first reared its head as long ago as 1985 - see pages 19/20 of The Woodworm Era.

Oh aye...from what I've read/heard, he wanted to focus on Whippersnapper...and wanted Fairport as more of the same (as per '79-'84)...a bit of a tour and Cropredy.  'They' (Simon, Swarb and now, I suppose, DM after Bruce left) wanted a permanent and commercially viable outfit.  They got what they wanted.  It's never nice to see it all out there though, is it...  :-\

Maybe there wasn't enough 'rehearsal time' available?  ::)

30 second previews of all the songs available here.  Good luck.  I lasted until Track 8.  

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SFB3V1Q/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B00SFB3V1Q&linkCode=as2&tag=propemusicd05-21&linkId=ZT6PQKVKCZKY24GE

Pretty much as on the FC site.

Apologies...didn't realise they were up there too..

Formulaic and a little sad too.

What he said !!

Cheers Nigel

I'm holding back my judgement till I see them in a couple of weeks.  I think the samples sound hopeful, personally.

As do I.

Haven't heard it yet, but...why "formulaic?" What is the formula they are following? Not being flip; I'd really like to know.

Formulaic in that every song sounds as though written to a template that has been used for the last 15-20 years.

..how long is it since you heard a new fairport cd?

How long is it since you wanted to hear a new Fairport CD?

Wow, we've gone from slagging off the cover to slating the album itself before it's been released.

Actually I was really looking forward to 'The Cropredy Bell', having heard the songs at the end of the wintour, but I thought it was a disappointment.
Compared with the live versions, the CD sounded dull, but I've found that with several artists lately.

Maybe it's because the album isn't important. Gigs and festivals are what's needed to keep a band going these days.
I wonder what's more important the CD, the t-shirts, or Cropredy programme sales?

Would have been interesting if social media had been around for Liege and Lief, Full House and more particularly Gottle of Geer and Tippler's Tales!!
Liege and Lief got some very restrained reviews at the time.

Sometimes I think albums sound dull  because bands record digitally so, often, the band are not together in the studio. As I understand it , the new album is, mainly, recorded with the band playing live, together, so we'll wait and see if they've achieved a live, 'bright' sound.

With the wisdom of hindsight, the last FC record i really looked forward to is the Babbacombe Lee live cd.
If you mean studio lps then it would have to be Wood and wire, although i feared Jewel in the crown after the awful 5 seasons although that time i was pleasantly surprised. Since,and including, the  wood and wire cd i don't think i have played a new FC studio record more than once. So i am opting out, after 45 years of buying fairport,singles, lps, and cds. The preview snippets of the new cd dont scream must have.
   Seems like that, with 2 lacklustre Cropredys behind them, ive gone right off FC. They'd better be good in august or it might be my last, non divisible by 5, Cropredy as well.

You did ask.

Don't be like that, June Tabor's a surprise guest next year.

For once, I completely agree with all Jim has said there.

 ;D ::) :o

Just as long as she does her wonderfully odd rendition of "a sailor's life" eh?

Well, I haven't heard the latest, so I can't comment on that one. But the others I have and quite like. I would argue they follow a definite style, rather than formula.

In answer the other question about how long has it been since I heard a newer Fairport CD, the answer is this morning. I really do prefer the post-1985 stuff over the '60s recordings. I don't expect many (any?) to agree with me, though. And that's OK.

Love L&L, Unhalfbricking, WWDOOH etc but with you 100% my favourite line up is the current one.....looking forward to Southport next week

Mark , Tony, I have met many people for whom the current line up is their favourite,that's obviously completely fine
I suspect it depends on when you discover the band
.For me '69, when the line up was Simon, Ashley, DM, Sandy, RT and Swarb, they were only together for 6 months! but they are Fairport to me. WKWTTG, Sloth, Sailors Life, Matty, Tam Lin, Ledge, were the songs that influenced the next 45 yrs of my musical life.

Sounds as if the argument might be that the band should have changed their name as soon as we stopped liking their output.

You could be right. I first heard them with "Nine" and was totally blown away; it had an immediate and permanent impact on my own playing (not that I'll ever be in the same universe as Jerry D!). It was probably two years later that I checked out L&L and, while I liked it, it certainly did not have the impact on me that Nine did. Loved Unhalfbricking, though. But for me, as I say, the stuff that REALLY speaks to me is post-1985. I guess part of the trouble for me is I don't care much for nostalgia. I can truthfully say my very favorite Fairport record is---the next one. I feel the same way about Little Feat and Steeleye, btw. I like also collecting shiny baubles, so there's that.

Is there anybody that can define what it is about the latest line-up's work that makes them prefer it to all that came before?  Intuitively I know we're all different and stating why one likes something is ludicrous and almost impossible to do.  I'm trying to be objective here, but whichever way I look at it, I just end up shaking my head with disbelief when I'm told the current lineup is where its at with this band (ditto Little Feat and Steeleye).

Probably because you are coming at it with the context of all that went before whereas many fans of the current band came to them without that baggage. They like this particular style, this particular sound. That is what attracted to them. For many of us they have stepped away from what made them special but for those who have found them in the last 15 years, what makes them special is what they are now and the earlier work does not reflect that.

Personally, I came to the band in the Maart era and that therefore is the era I am nostalgic for, at least live. I had to bite my lip over Jim's rubbishing of 5 Seasons in favour of Jewel In The Crown as I feel precisely the opposite, 5 Seasons being the first album they put out after I first saw them live & I love it for all sorts of reasons not directly connected to the music. It is not an objective response. I don't much like Jewel at all, or Red & Gold for that matter. I bought L&L almost immediately and thought, "what the hell is this?" It took me a long time to get it. I did work backwards and my own personal favorite era is 70 - 78 (excluding, Rosie, Rising & Geer) because much of that music was still in the repertoire in the late 80s, early 90s.

Re - the 5 seasons, i just thought it was rather flat and JITC was an improvement.

Still have Wounded Whale on my playlists Jim! I rarely, hardly ever not for yrs, listen to the rest of the album.
Said it before but the first time I heard Sailors Life, 1969, as a 17 yr old , was the watershed moment for me in my musical tastes.

Of the 1985- albums... I 'quite like' Gladys Leap.  A few strong songs but sounds unbelievably dated now.  The only other normal studio one I have any affection for at all is Jewel in the Crown.  I've got some friends who, though fans of the early band, try and convince me OTNH is a decent album.  I can't see it although it's a darn sight better than what's followed it.  Bizarrely, I really quite enjoy By Popular Request, which shouldn't work, but sort of does.

And, Al, I think, by and large, you're right about my contextualisation.  Having said all that 'my' first Fairport was the Simon, Swarb, Peggy, Bruce foursome.

You're all wrong, the best album of that era was 'Old, New, Borrowed, Blue'.  ;D

 Mine too. They were pretty good live. I only really enjoy Fairport live these days when they have a lot of former members guesting.

It's my favourite anyway....strange that I never saw the Acoustic FC line up, considering.

I'm afraid that (apart from one appalling gig in Chester the following year) is why I gave up after the awesome Barbican show in 2009.  The juxtaposition between the two was just too vast to bridge for me......

Of the post 85 albums there is the odd track on all of them that I like but those tracks tend to be the exception rather than the rule. The only complete albums that I go back to (less frequently than earlier works) are 5 Seasons, Who Knows Where The Time Goes & two thirds of Festival Bell. It occurs to me that in the case of the last of these I like it almost inspite of it being by Fairport rather than because of it. It barely resembles what my idea of a Fairport album would be but setting that aside, it is still a collection of songs, most of which I enjoy irrespective of who might be performing them (if you see what I mean).

Are you saying that if the Chris Leslie songs on albums since 1997 had been solo albums they would have been viewed differntly, without the baggage of Fairports history? I'm with you about individual songs, still like 'the wood n the wire', 'my love is in America' and perversely i like the present lineups version of Fotheringay.

Yes, I think that is right, though it is not quite that simple as there are some of Chris's songs that do sound absolutely like Fairport songs, John Gaudie being the perfect example. I also think that what the band desperately needed when CL joined was a writer. The constant reliance on outside material was definitely diluting their legacy and turning them into a sort of folk rock Cliff Richard.

I think it's about the type of music you enjoy.

If you like more exploratory improvisational music you feel comfortable with the earlier lineups, including the Maart era when they more frequently cut loose. The Maart era sometimes is split by the Swarb team v the Ric team, because of the jazz or "cosmic" elements.  If you don't like that type of music is all seems a little chaotic.

The current lineup are more song based with little improvisation, and the occasional dance tune. It is too "safe" for some and because of that seems a little staid. At that point it seems to depend on whether you like the songs.

I think inside the majority of the band there is an improvisational core that wants to take off but they are too busy trying to please their fans rather than themselves and therefore you get a compromise which once you know the history can seem a little dull, but only if you like that playing on the edge type of feel.

So if you want to drink too much  jig about and singalong you are more than happy, if you want to wonder what is going to happen next you look back in wonder.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. ;D

Neil

Interesting perspective. I for one would dearly like to hear them cut loose & indulge in some extended improvisation. There's no doubt the ability is there, it's just a matter of having the will to go off piste for a while. I'm sure a couple of extended non-jiggy/reely instrumental passages wouldn't offend the average audience.   :)

You're right, there can't be many would agree with you on that point. Did you not like Sandy, Thommo and McDonald etc?

Reading that there are several people who like a certain time of Fairport I do not think one can say there is a definitive Fairport. I was a fan right from the first album and then did  not follow them for a while, my latest cd was Jewel in the crown. I was also of the opinion that the earlier albums were the best but over the years my taste has changed, when I now listen to Liege and lief I skip the long instrumental parts of Tam Lin and Matty Groves and I also skip Come all ye, there are also songs on the earlier albums I never liked, like Sloth, Cajun woman, Million dollar bash to name a couple. I think it is only a matter of taste and I am quite happy with their recent output but again do not like all the songs. They are (to me) still an electric Folk band (which I do like)  and have not turned into an unexceptional Rock one.

McDonald?  I had to think for a while before I realised who you meant there.

Jules

Slip of the fingers - and memory there!  ::)

That's the 1975 Newcastle United front line, isn't it?  ;D

Yep, I think you're both bang on.  I 'discovered' Fairport in the mid 70s, but at the same time I didn't.  I had the double album History, then bought Babbacombe Lee, saw them a couple of times and kind of parked my Fairport experience there. Picked it up again after a chance visit to Cropredy in 2007, haven't missed since so see the current line up as 'my' Fairport. I doubt they can ever hope to come close writing to WKWTTG, Sloth, MOTL, and so many others but when I bang one of the more recents CDs on it tansports me to a field in August.  The new Cd should arrive in the next couple of days, better had do I need to be familiar before Southport next Saturday !

Can't possibly buy another Fairport CD!! I am currently importing all of my fave songs from my cd collection on to my new ipod! Its only 16GB and I am only up to 'E' Have just got out the next lot of albums to do and it's 'F' for Fairport, 25 CD's to upload, the ipod is half full, will need to buy another to complete the task!

Santa was good to me as I have a 'Bose' Bluetooth speaker, my musical world is shrinking, saves me having to put cd's on and off a player!  ::) :D No more breaking those annoying cd cases....

So, lets hope I don't like the new album anyway!! My fave era was the 'Maart' years and even the few years after that, have been disappointed in the last 2-3 albums, although I always find a few great songs.  ;)

 ;D

Recent years for me - and as far as I can tell with this one = great musianship as ever, I quite like the more "acoustic" sound, I really like the mix of instruments Chris plays BUT even with all this in place I find myself just not liking the songs themselves. I have often thought that about FC over the years though - for every Sloth there has been a Night Time Girl, for every Matty Groves there has been a Hungarian Rhapsody, the tendancy for Simon to sing slightly over sentimental stuff like London Danny or Sailing Boat. OK there are still some crackers in amongst but overall poor (IMHO) song choices make me not want to buy the albums, and sadly not see the band live any more with sets dominated by the putput of the past decade.

DW

"the putput of the past decade"?

Better rename that song "Motor Boat"...  ;)

"My" FC is the 1971-3 lineup of Simon, Swarb, Peggy & DM, as that's the line-up I saw first, but there's not a single entire album by any line-up I dislike in toto - sure, there's a few weak tracks across the canon, but that applies to every artist/band/composer. I'm looking forward to hearing the new one when I get it on Thursday at the Roses, especially if (as someone noted) it's been recorded "tout ensemble" rather than everyone adding their parts separately as per Festival Bell.

I'm unsurprised but disappointed that the new album has been slagged off so comprehensively, when the majority of the comments have almost certainly come from people who haven't heard it. If you *have* heard it, feel free to review it.

Has anybody actually got it yet? I thought mine might have arrived by now, but it hasn't.

"Slagged off so comprehensively"?  Really?  There's quite a bit about why people don't like Fairport that much any more (and why they prefer one lineup over another), and why some people won't buy it, but I'm yet to see the album slagged off comprehensively in this thread.

At the risk of sounding like a critic---A LOT of it has to do with Simon; his voice has matured to a really fine instrument that I never tire of. And I think his guitar playing is criminally underrated (not least by his own self). Peggy continues to produce amazingly funky yet fluid bass lines, that started off amazing and just get better and better. Chris and Ric are always a delight. And I love Gerry's world music approach to percussion. For the most part I love their choice of material.

Negatives? Chris has on rare occasion played REALLY good electric lead guitar; I wish he would do it more often. And I suspect Simon could be a really fine composer if he really wanted to.

The older (60s) stuff is fine---but for my subjective ears, the recording quality often leaves a LOT to be desired. But, basically, as I said, I like looking forward more than looking backward. That's just me.

There has been some criticism of the album cover, some assumptions made  about the content, some discussion about what people like about the current and past lineups, some concern about the sound of the samples but no slagging off.

It has from my perspective been a good discussion and as with any band that has gone through the changes Fairport has some strong opinions, they have not however been offensive. I will happily review the album when I get it.

For the first time in a long time I am quite excited about a new Fairport album largely because of the discussion here.

Neil

When you have a fan base largely made up of cynical old bastards who can remember everything you have done for nearly fifty years, they are going to be difficult to impress.
I know that Fairport perceive TAW as a mixed blessing, we keep up interest, but tend to 'tell it like it is'.

Actually the tone of this topic has been largely neutral, based on the information available and past experience. Seems fair enough to me.  

Fair enough. Nothing wrong with a pinion, as the man with the wooden leg said.

Cynical old bastard!!!!!!!!!!                                   Oh, Ok. ::)
I actually thought it's been a good conversation. If you discovered Fariports in 1993 that's the line up you like. If , like me you 'discovered them in '68/9 you're a cynical old bastard! Sheen says she can't see much for me to argue with there!

Edit: Now that the CD is available, I have now locked this topic and split it as best I can. Colin