TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

From the latest Fairport mailout...

"There’ll also be an anniversary album early next year. It will be titled '50:50@50' - half the tracks celebrate Fairport’s illustrious past with recent live versions of favourites from our back catalogue while the other half look to the band’s present and future with studio recordings of brand new songs and tunes. The studio tracks were recorded at Woodworm Studio earlier this month and some of the live recordings aren’t much older. The new album is produced and engineered by our ineffable soundman John Gale and features guest appearances from Jacqui McShee and Robert Plant."

oh dear, more of the same :-[
just what the world needs, live versions of old tracks, like we dont have any :'(

Look at it the positive way:
you don`t have to buy it  ;)

I'm surprised it's not called 'Between a rock and a hard place'.  They really can't win, poor things, but I'm far from sure this very leaden idea really tries....

While I have enjoyed the occasional track from their post-Swarb era, I can't help comparing their situation to that of Steeleye, whose recent albums have mostly met with praise on TAW. The content and concepts of SS albums seem totally different and fired with a different sort of enthusiasm. Their music has a heavier rock beat. Could this be down to Maddy's influence or from having a rockier drummer? I don't know.

I haven't bought an FC album since SOO (only played that once!) and would be sad to see them go the way of old footballers, sliding down into the equivalent of the Conference.

bang on , I dont .
but the thing is my DNA is wired to be excited at the mere thought of a new FC lp even though ive been mainly disappointed since the Swarbless reformation.
i have broken the habit and didn't buy Myths and Heroes, a decision i haven't regretted, and i dont feel there's anything missing in my record collection.

I can't help thinking that the title is driving the format rather than the other way around.

Disappointing.

In a nutshell - That's what it looks like, isn't it.

So, once again, a Fairport release is being pulled to pieces before it's released. Didn't this happen before 'Myths and Heroes' and wasn't the consensus that it wasn't a bad record, quite good, in fact?

The Steeleye Comparison is an interesting one.
I saw Steeleye in 2012 I think. Ken Nicol and Pete Zorn were with them.In Brum with a friend who was a real Steeleye afficianado.
He was very disappointed that they were just going through the motions.
Then Peter Knight left. I have loved his playing for over 40 yrs and still love his stuff with gig spanner. Perhaps he didn't like where the band were going with Wintersmith, I really don't know.
A new , arguably rockier fiddle player, Julian's gtr and vocals and now a second lead guitar have basically rebuilt the band. I have loved the last few gigs I have seen. They can still do some back catalogue cos they still have Maddys voice.
I can't see how Fairports can do anything except what they are doing. A double album of live tracks of classics and a new originals album may have expanded the idea a bit.
Could they have made a groundbreaking new folk rock album involving a bunch of guests mapping the last 50 yrs ? Financially probably no.
Cropredy and Fairports are where they are. As comfortable as an old pair of slippers, the old leather photograph album, discovered,cobweb covered in the loft, of great memories. Whilst, downstairs, some new pictures of the grandkids.
Would I like Fairports to produce great original stuff, pushing the envelope a bit?Of course I would.
Do I still love the band and the memories they evoke? Of course I do.
The new album will basically be what you get at a present day Fairport gig. Some old stuff done differently by this incarnation and some new stuff, often high quality song writing by Chris but his writing is being compared to folk icons like, Denny, Swarbrick and RT .
At an open mic the other night it got a bit of a memorial to Leonard Cohen and conversations turned to comparisons of Cohen and Dylan. There was a strong opinion that the writing of Richard Thompson had also to be in there.
Difficult for any incarnation of the band to compete with that.

If 'quite good' is all you aspire to, then that's fine.

But I don't buy 'quite good' albums anymore.

No, I really liked 'Myths and Heroes' (I was understating it for effect) but the main point I was making was that people are already making judgements about an album that hasn't been released yet, based on a press release.

I now avoid threads that endlessly criticise........so spend less time on TAW. It seems to have become very negative. Shame. It's such a pity that criticism seems to be the order of the day in cyberspace. Sometimes I don't feel I can say I like something without bringing down someone's wrath or contempt.

I don't want shameless adoration for them, but it seems as if they can do nothing right. If they were that bad, they wouldn't still be touring and selling out gigs.

I go to gigs, and listen to CDS, open minded, and enjoy what I hear or not, but don't keep comparing as it's (to me) pointless.

Can we just stop the slagging off for a while? It gets very boring.

Couldn't agree more Diane...  why do peeps bother to even be here if all they can do is criticise the band that is the foundation of this site...  it just goes on and on.

Criticism of an existing product may sometimes be valid, but criticism of something that doesn't yet exist is just a wee bit over-enthusiastic IMHO.

Incidentally, I liked Myths and Heroes a lot.

Has it?  I really don't share this point of view.  My overwhelming impression of TAW is that it's a kind, friendly, and positive place.  Fighting is rare.  Most of us get along with most others.  Not everyone is going to love everybody else, but in the main I reckon the vibes are good.  We're all music fans, so maybe we don't pull our punches where music is concerned, but TAW "very negative"?  I don't see it.

Jules

I agree with Diane in that criticism of a product before you've even heard a track? What's the point? Speculate what might be on it, but hold your thoughts until you've heard it.

I think all the talkawhilers I've met are a thoroughly nice bunch. I personally feel a bit underwhelmed by the prospect of half the songs being live recordings (especially as there are already many fine recordings available). I'd feel the same no matter who the band were. I was hoping for a record bringing as many past members together as possible as guests. Having said that, I'm looking forward to the new studio tracks, and really looking forward the 50th tour and May Union Chapel gig.

Maybe I'm guilty here of thinking about TAW when I first joined..... and times gone by! :-[ Whoops!

I've been here for a decade now (I just checked - it blew my mind a bit!), but I'm still relatively a new kid on the block.  Maybe I missed the golden era of TAW, or maybe I caught some of it, or maybe the golden era continues.  I suppose different people will have differing perceptions on that.  Times gone by can have a powerful pull sometimes.  I remember the first music forum I joined when I first went online.  It was special, magical.  And now it barely exists.  TAW is doing a damned sight better than that at least.   :)

Jules

Unseriously:

Come on kids, let's stagger across the finishing line.  ;D

Seriously:

There are those that can only appreciate what was done many a decade ago, but let's just appreciate a band that has kept on doing new.  

Can I point out please that in my earlier post there's no criticism. I was responding to an earlier post that mentioned Steeleye.
I am posting here far less than I used to for many reasons .
I read people's recommendations of new stuff to listen to but if t/awhile becomes a site where people can't express an opinion without being called negative.......what is the point of it's existence?
Jim hasn't liked much of Fairports output since 1985. That's not criticism , it's Jim's opinion. One might ask why he follows a band he doesn't like much but that's a different story.
Future posts will simply read.....
I like Fairport.
Yes I like them too.
I like them very much and I like Toyah too.
Yes I like Toyah too.
I like Toyah very much too
and on ad nauseum.
G night you bunch of old farts..........whose opinions and company I happen to like a lot 😘😘😘😱😂
Just sometimes it's ok to disagree about music.
I like the Incredible String Band.....
I like the Incredible String too.....................l😱

I also agree that Steeleye have put out a couple of fine albums in the past few years and I hope they continue to do so. All I was saying that people are criticising an album that hasn't even been released yet and that no-one has heard any music from. Like or dislike, debate/argue, I don't care, but base it on something you've heard, not on what you think it might sound like. No offence intended towards you, Hendo, just a general point.

Morning Mick.
Bands reach landmarks or do a tour and need a supporting album.
Albums don't make money , tours may and if you can sell an album at a gig.......
Sally Barker has made a new album before her support slot with Fairports cos it's how she'll fund the tour.
So of course Fairports need an album but who are they selling to? A new audience or the audience at Cropredy and their Winter tour gigs?
I have no probs with a live album . People do go up to a band after a gig and ask for songs they have just heard played but I would imagine Fairport fans would have a lot of the live stuff.
As I said , a band that has been going for fifty years , in many different entities is in a difficult place.
I seriously hope it is a stonking good album that I want to buy.

Hear hear.  Last time I looked: "The board is moderated, but we don't censor peoples views, only really bad behavior, such as personal attacks."

For everybody that is put off by a little (almost always constructive) criticism of their beloved heroes, there is another person who's alienated by uncritical sycophantic praise.  Horses for courses.  It's a place for discussion.  That's what discussion means!  If you're 'not allowed to' discuss a new album (which includes speculating about it in advance following a press release) then there really is no point for it to exist.

^ This.  [;-)

Crikey, I have rattled a few cages! Just my opinion - like everyone else. I've just observed that certain topics provoke a (fairly predictable) particular response. I don't want slavish anodyne adoration.....that's equally predictable. Let's get back on topic, eh?

Am I allowed to state that I hope that Fairport's new album is an improvement on the last 8 albums, because I found them safe, lacking energy and the self penned tracks a bit cliched. Though you cannot deny the ability of the musicians and quality of the vocals.

At least you heard them first.  :)

It's not criticism, it's an expression of an opinion, which might be utter nonsense, but that's beside the point.  You'd need to delete virtually every thread on Talkawhile concerning any forthcoming product (gig or album).  It would rather negate the very purpose of the place exisiting, wouldn't it?

All I said was that another new CD padded out with live versions of old favourites doesn't float my boat.
  It smacks of another rush job with not much thought having gone into it.
   I don't think it will sell to anybody but the faithful,  a dwinding number.
 I thought FC's set at Cropredy last year was the best they have done in some years, it was also the shortest, never mind the days of 4 Hour sets, the days of 3 hour sets with interesting guests seems to be gone.
   A pal of mine went to see FC live for the first time in 30 years. He enjoyed the first couple of numbers but said it started to get boring there was no change of pace and nothing to get excited about. Just 5 blokes doing what they do every time they go out onstage, like they worked on a factory line. He was hoping for a wee bit more than comfortable bonhomie, which is what the seem to trade in lately.
     There's nothing wrong with not being excited about a forthcoming CD by a band who haven't done anything exciting on record for nearly 30 years.
     I hadn't seen Steeleye for 35 years until! Cropredy last year, I was kind of dreading it but they were tremendous, full of life and rocking like nobody's business. That's how you grow old onstage.
   Next years Cropredy should be a glorious celebration of 50 years but I very the feeling already that the band are trying to lower expectations.
  I've already booked my hotel so I'll see you there, and we'll enjoy ourselves because we are all naturally friendly people in a friendly environment.

On another subject, I see FC are having the warm ups at Banbury labour club, which is a very good thing. The mill in august is a sweatbox. I preferred Woodford Halse but that was a mission to get to and from. The labour club did well with the Trad arr show last year.
   Isn't positivity nice.

BTW, during the early years/golden years of Talkawhile we used to have some "highly spirited" discussions about life, the universe and music of all sorts,there were regular fights in the arms car park.

Although hugely tempting.

"Criticism is the practice of judging the merits and faults of something."

That's odd, because that's what it sounded like.  ::)

Sigh.  Why not just assume the best of what somebody else writes, even if you disagree with it?  Life's so much easier that way....  I simply do not comprehend the concept of a site for discussion which wants to stifle discussion.  How it can be somehow 'wrong' to speculate that the next Fairport album will be a disappointment to some is entirely beyond me.  I shall see some of you in London in May and we can all discuss who was right and who was wrong.  Nicely.

I think the difference in Steeleye and Fairport over the past 15 years or so is that Steeleye have changed and evolved their style across different albums and gone through heavyish phases, mellow folky phases etc etc to the new proggy sounding phase. Whereas Fairport have pretty much stuck to the same formula sound-wise (regardless of whether they are doing new material or revisiting older). I'd like to see them mix it up a bit more sound-wise I must admit.

I think that's probably true.  Sadly (from my point of view) there are too many people too comfortable with the post-Maart cozy old Fairport that change isn't going to come unless (as with Steeleye) it is foisted upon them.  They'e evolved because they've had to...and, in general, it's been for the best.

Oh heck......I think you've proved the point.
I disagreed with you....you've all jumped on me to defend your right to an opinion.
Where's my right to an opinion?
Isn't that the point of a discussion board?

I've read all of this thread and I saw nobody do that to you, Diane.

Jules

Talking about boring, when I saw Steeleye earlier this year my first thought after a couple of songs was: Oh dear not that boring Rock guitar again.

That's a good mantra. You should try it.

Problem is, all the people who might have contributed, who just don't bother because it isn't worth the risk of getting simultaneously shot down and bored to death...............qv the recent shrieks of anger over the use of the phrase "passed away" when Dave Pegg's brother died. For pity's sake!

There's a splendid, if possibly apocryphal, quote regarding Joseph Heller who, when confronted by someone who said that he'd not written anything as good since Catch 22 replied "And nor has anyone else". There's your 'Liege and Lief' conundrum in a nutshell.

Maybe everybody should try it.

Jules

^This.

Conversely, how can it be somehow 'wrong' to speculate that the next Fairport album will be surprisingly good  by some is entirely beyond me. And for this site to be a place where all discussion is valid-good and bad and for those of us who still feel excited about a new Fairport release to be able to feel that way. Yes, I've heard these same arguments before here. I also quite enjoyed Myths and Heroes, as well as most of Festival Bell. Still do, as well as all or most of every Fairport album I own. But don't get me wrong. I don't, or haven't liked everything the band has done in almost 50 years, but the good still outweighs the bad by far for me. That is why I think some of us on here have a hard time when the 'here we go again' begins again based purely on speculation. I have hopes of being amazed/surprised/excited by the new album.  I have for every record by every one of my favorite artists (Runrig's final album The Story is a good case in point as it is a stunner). Will all those still hold true? I don't know....I haven't heard it yet.

If I'm allowed to put my opinion in, I loved Myths and Heroes, so I have high hopes for the new material, but I will also admit to being somewhat disappointed when I saw (in the Cropredy programme?) that the next album would be half live material, given all the live stuff that's out there already.  Let's hope it is somewhat unexpected versions of things we haven't heard for a while.

It wasn't passed away that raised shrieks, it was"transitioned", for pity's sake!

A post which I think proves just what a difficult, nay impossible, situation the band have got themselves into.  I do have genuine sympathy for them....it's almost like they end up satisfying nobody in a desperate attempt to please both 'wings' of the Fairport Party.  There's a lot of that about these days!

Who poked the bear?  ;) ;D

It seems to me that some peeps just want to think that Fairport are in a difficult situation... 

Personally I will look forward to the new album with open arms...  call me a sycophant if you like, but
never forget that Fairport have been a band for 50 years... FIFTY.. what a great achievement that is!

I will be celebrating this not criticising them for something not yet heard.

They really are in a cleft stick sometimes - if they put out a 50th anniversary album of new songs folks would suggest they are ignoring their heritage, they can't do another full retrospective because By Popular Request is so recent, what have they ended up with then? Well we obviously don't know the end results yet, I am excited about Robert Plant guesting and what that will entail, never been that much of a Jacqui McShee fan so ho-hum about her input. The recent pattern seems to be some olf and some new but will this be a double album do we think?

Will I bother buying it? Who knows, i haven't bought their last few albums because listens via spotify haven't really moved me to do so - long gone are the days when I would buy an album out of loyalty to the band. But I will be going to to the tour next year after a longish break and am planning to attend Cropredy. 50 years is to be celebrated after all.

DW

If that's what they need to use, then maybe let be. I usually use 'dead', but there are some days when it hurts too much.

I haven't bought a Fpt album for many years. Am I allowed to criticize the ones I haven't bought (yet)??  :D ;D ;D ;)

Only if one of them is Gottle o'Geer  ;) - which, fwiw, I quite enjoy...

Presumably not buying them is criticism in itself!  ;D ;)

yes, but you probably already know have saved many dozens of pounds on unnecessary things.

The thing I really look forward to about a new Fairport Album is the conversation here. I am not joking about that, I genuinely enjoy the diverse opinions.

We can all be negative about what it might be, some of us will buy it anyway, some will be proud of not buying it and then sneak off to listen on some streaming service and others will enjoy being picky, while others will just enjoy the album. The thing is there will be an argument/discussion and some of it may end up back in the arms carpark again, until then though it may be best not to take things personally as I don't believe any of this is meant that way.

Neil

When I think about how much money I've saved on Frank Zappa albums over the years it makes my head spin!

Yes, between him and the Grateful Dead, how come I'm not a millionaire? ;)

Your opinion, others may vary. But "constructive" it can't be, before release, can it?

We 're going round in circles here Chris. I have read no criticism of the album, we can't, it doesn't exist. I have read criticism, constructive and not , of the concept.
As I said I hope it's a stonking album but difficult for this line up of the band to put out a live album of the well known songs that haven't been heard already.
I think ,' by Popular Request ' created the problem , in a good way because it covers most of the older material , by this incarnation of the band, that most fans would want to hear.
I am not a completist. Why would I want a live version of a song I already have?
That's not  criticism just my personal opinion.
.....and a big sticky kiss from me!😘😱😉

Dave, it wasn't your post I quoted.....

I agree with all of this, (apart from the big sticky kiss!).  Criticism of the concept seems perfectly valid to me.  Personally I wonder how many copies of a new album Fairport sell these days (not that many?) and how many are "casual" rather than "hardcore" purchases (even less?).  If it isn't many then the income from a new album can hardly be crucial and it seems a shame that the chance wasn't taken to do something a little different or unexpected.

Actually, you've reminded me that was the last one I bought. Part of a '3 for £20' promo, some years a go. It has its moments. I now have my quota of 'undemanding ' listening material.  ;)

Alan, I think you accidentally added an "s" to the word "moment".   ;)

Jules

Ahem.........no, perhaps I'll keep it to myself.   :-X

If he'd have called it a hit, he would have been leaving one off.

This.

The thing is, Fairport know some fine song writers. In addition, there are other song writers they could reach out to (Ray Davies, Andy Partridge to name two) who could do them proud if they had a mind to.

IMO the last great Fairport album was Jewel In The Crown where they made a point of stretching them selves and actively seeking out new material. They should try it again.

Totally agree and Maart was on great form on the album and raised everything another level.

I wouldn't go quite so far as 'great' but I certainly agree that Jewel in the Crown was the last decent stab Fairport made at recording an album.  It's certainly the last one I listen to regularly. It came out 21 years ago.....  :(

I know I will be in the minority but I think Who Knows is a better album than Jewel - John Gaudie, Spanish Main, Dangerous, Tom Paine etc.

But an interesting thought about songwriters previously.

I wonder whether in the 59th anniversary year a tribute to Fairport, like the RT Beat The Retreat, might be on the cards somewhere. Established artists playing their favourite FC songs, I know that Ocean Colour Scene play Meet on the Ledge for instance.

DW

I'd prefer Counting Crows to Ocean Colour Scene (said he, controversially ;D )

And I'd prefer to never have to hear either again as long as I live.

Jules

touche

and also quite correct

Then again, which was the last best album before that? What everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring is that FC haven't actually been a great albums band since about 1970. Expecting them to start again now is probably wishful thinking to the nth degree. Having said that, I personally think that Myths and Heroes is the closest they've got since Jewel.

I prefer Myths to JitC...

I think it was Simon who described Fairport albums as being like "postcards home" - a way of letting fans knowing what the band was like at any particular time, his point being that they are really a live act and that recording was a secondary activity for them.

DW

I think I do - the thing is that although I'm familiar with most of the material, there are so many compilations from that period that I don't think I own any of the actual individual LPs except Red and Gold.

I love Myths and Heroes and I've never been a massive fan of Jewel in the Crown (one or two great individual tracks, but as a whole I've always thought it was overrated) However, it is, as they say, in my humble opinion!

I think part of the problem is quality control in the time since CDs were introduced.
Those great albums of the 70s were generally limited to around 40 minutes, but those since have been 60 plus.
I also think Jewell was their last really decent album but that too suffers from a fair amount of filler.
Less is sometimes more.

There have been many examples of filler on Fairport albums over the years : M1 Breakdown, The Lord Is In This Place..., Hungarian Rhapsody, Night Time Girl, My Feet Are Set For Dancing, London River, All Your Beauty, etc...

I wasn't particularly keen on By Popular Request due to the auto-tuning of some vocal parts* making the album virtually unlistenable.

Another idea for a new album would be "Son Of Expletive Delighted" as the instrumental skills of the current Fairport are one of their major strengths.
However, the last time I made this suggestion here I was informed in no uncertain terms what a terrible idea it was. Still, each to their own...

I'm looking forward to the new album as much as I look forward to any new Fairport product, i.e. quite a lot !

* By the way, the vocals sound processed and artificially tuned to me - if any of the band or production team behind By Popular Request are reading this and wish to exercise their right to reply and inform me that I'm mistaken, then I will be more than happy to be proved wrong on this point.

"Son of Expletive Delighted" - would that be "Chuffing Well Chuffed"?

I guess I'll buy the new album- hopefully it'll be on the merch table on the Wintour...

I've always thought of Fairport as a live band; I can't think of any song that sounds better in its recorded form over a live version in the years that I've been seeing them.

I love seeing a band play live, but it's always the records for me ultimately, and that's definitely true for Fairport.

Jules

You've made me think Shane.
I suppose I have always broken the band down into eras.
At the time of release I was unaware of the 1st album (I was 16)then along came the next 4 albums and my love of folk rock was ignited.
I had to be weaned on to the Nine lineup , I missed Sandy too much but I came to appreciate it.
Maart brought something else to the band but the keyboard arrangements became overblown, much as I like wounded whale!
Chris took the band somewhere else. A more  acoustic band in which Ric became something of an anachronism?
I hadn't heard Myths and Heroes when I first heard the songs live at Cropredy . I wanted to love it......and just didn't.Sorry. However a couple of songs, I really like, which is the point really. ......and I really take the point that albums if 50 yrs ago where much shorter in format.
I just found it twee and lacking power. I wanted  a PJ power chord on the title track!
So I view the last , almost 20 years, version of the band as a completely seperate entity and although I have some of the albums , including Over  the Next Hill and Sense of Occassion, I have never expected them to be the band of 50 yrs ago.
I do need some rock in my folk Rock, an itch that Trad Arr are nicely scratching at present.

Nit: "TRADarrr". Apparently. (I love 'em)

Yep. I always get it wrong!

Sense of Occasion. Now there is a terrible, terrible album...

Some very odd covers on that one - including the CD cover as well.

We once played the original and the SOO version of 'Love on a Farmboy's Wages' concurrently, switching between them at random, on the radiogram. They match up exactly.

They have a charity Christmas single (i.e. download) out by the way.

I agree with a lot of what Hendo says above and while I like some of the recent stuff they're not the same band at all (no harm in that, just sayin'...). I was only re-introduced to them 8 years ago when I came back to Cropredy after a very long break (1979    ::))  ). And while I do like some of the newer stuff, and love and everything about them as consummate musicians and troubadours, I do agree with Dave's description of "twee" for many of their recent songs. I recall an interview of a few years back by Swarb when he (not in a hateful way) pointed out that the recent band were going nowhere near the vast repertoire of traditional folk for inspiration and material (as they did early on with such classics as Spens and Matty and many more). And I think that hits the nail on the head. I agree with Hendo that I'd like a bit more rock in my folk-rock (an electric guitar, for a start...); and then the other side of the coin, I'd like more folk in my folk-rock. And nobody can say the material isn't there for that. (Full English is a prime example).

What is SOO?

Jules

That would be Sense of Occasion.

Doh!  Of course it would be.

Jules

A quick look and there are very few "trad arr" tracks over the past 20 years really - in fact since the 85 reformation there are only 13 new trad arrs (nor including rerecordings of earlier tracks) compared to 11 across Bonny Bunch and Tipplers Tales alone and 15 between L@L, Full House and Angel Delight. I for one would love to see return to the folk tradition rather than gentle singer songwriter stuff.

DW

I suspect this is about who is in the band. The flag wavers for trad were very much Ashley & Swarb in their respective line ups. In the current band, Ric is a jazzer, Simon & Peggy are both known to be fond of acoustic singer songwriter material and Chris needs an outlet for his own songs. None of their personal tastes, it seems to me, encompass the enthusiasm for either traditional music or electric music that their erstwhile colleagues espoused (the electricity having come from Richard, Jerry & Maart) so it seems unlikely that there will be any move away from comfy slippers Fairport at this point. We just have to enjoy them (or not) for what they are.

Personally I can always find a couple of songs on each album to enjoy, sometimes more but the last complete album I rate is WKWTTG. Jewel is patchy in my view and like most products of the CD age, way too long and therefore stuffed with filler.

I shall buy the new album. I hope to enjoy some of it but I hope more that it is a two disc set, not a single disc split between live and studio. That will not satisfy anyone.

I don't disagree although I'd certainly make a stab at defending Tipplers Tales.  I'm more of a live fan anyway, and knowing the band was still kicking arse in the early 80's (and to an extent still doing that - differently - for another 15 years or so) is enough for me.

Getting a bit scared now Stephen. That's twice on this thread people have agreed with me. ::)

Would you like me to disagree, just to calm your nerves?  ;)

UPDATE from the FC OS (more details thereon):

50:50@50 will be available to order on 16 Jan; orders will be shipped 24 Jan. CD will be available at Wintour gigs.

Just placed my order for 50:50@50 in FC's online shop...

£10 + £1.50 p&p

wonder if you can save the P&P at the gigs or whether they will charge £12?

Clips now on the FC online shop.  Not the usual suspects for the live tracks...  ;) :)

But the DIY song, yet another song about touring and another one about Cropredy - sorry and all that but my cash is staying put.

DW

I've probably missed something but do we have a track listing yet?

In the shop on the FB website as David W mentioned or else here is the link. Track listings included-

http://www.fairportconvention.com/

Tried the sample tracks and loved it.
Bought a copy straight away.

I think those who like the current band will love this , those that don't wont.

Got to admit that I took a look at the track listing and thought it looked a bit of a dog's dinner.

Will no doubt pick up a copy at the Worthing gig in a couple of weeks but I wish they had done one disc of studio and a second disc of live. This seems neither fish nor fowl somehow.

Intrigued by the opening track though. I have not listened to the sample but I assume it is not a cover of the Paul McCartney instrumental of the same name from the soundtrack to Give My Regards To Broad Street.

Thanks Robert

Listen to the samples.

While you might read the posts before asking a question :-)

I was right then. It isn't.

I have just listened to the samples and am now less likely to buy a copy at the Worthing gig in a couple of weeks. The twee/cosy slippers factor seems to have raised its head again on a couple of the new songs.



Eh?

Thought I had Chris but I obviously didn't scroll back far enough. Hence the question and a very useful  answer.
You'll have read my post where I said I've probably missed something.

Ah, it was aimed at you, not me. Now it makes sense.

Yup, admonished by Chris for not reading properly!
I am beating myself with a birch twig as I speak.
Morning Chris. Big kiss.😘

mwaaah!

Only coz you told off GubGub (at least that's how I read it)

Turns out that was advice, not criticism, the outcome of which hendo & I have discussed offline, in our safe zone.  ;)

Mwaah?
Chris I had no idea you spoke Swahili .Small world.

Listening to the sound clips, it all sounds rather predictable, syrupy and boring to me.
Not exactly a celebration of 50yrs, but merely 5 pensionable guys just treading water.
Good luck to them, and to the future.  :)

It's a bit Folk/MOR isn't it?

Hmmm...first impressions are that Eleanor's dream is the strongest track by a country mile, and it will be good to have a live version of Lord Marlbourgh....

i suppose i dont need to say owt

Of course you don't Jimbo.. we know what you will say...  :)

See you at Cropredy  ;D ;D :D

Having only heard snippets Adam I tend to agree but like Jim the words head and parapet come to mind.
I think they were on a hiding to nothing.
I will hold an opinion til I hear all the tracks all way through.

I will stick my head above the parapet. I will be happy to proved wrong but I think the problem here (judging from the samples) is going to be, the new studio tracks are going to be "more of the same" from this Fairport line up which will please some but disappoint those who prefer the greater fire in the belly of Fairports past and the live recordings are unlikely to supplant previously released performances of the same songs in anyone's affection. Which leaves the collaborations as the unique selling points.

It is just an odd concept all round and I can't help but wonder how many people, even amongst those who enjoy it, are likely to return to it after the first few listens.

For a band with the longevity of Fairport (and they are not the only one with this problem) there is only any point in releasing a new record at this point if it can compete with their existing catalogue already buckling people's shelves. This one seems unlikely to have staying power.

Thanks, Gub, you've summed up my feelings about this new release more eloquently and diplomatically than I might've put it  ;)

On reflection, the special "anniversary" albums that Fairport have put out over the years have been a very mixed bunch.

In Real Time (20th) - Pretty good but notoriously a fake live album.
No release (25th)
Who Knows Where The Time Goes? (30th) - A personal favourite but it has many detractors.
XXXV (35th) - Patchy at best and the start of the unfortunate tendency to recycle old songs.
A Sense Of Occasion (40th) - Generally reckoned to be one of the band's recording nadirs.
By Popular Request (45th) - Surprisingly successful and well liked, given the concept of the project and holds up well.
50/50@50 (50th) - An unsatisfying curate's egg???

I wonder if this is partly down to the pressure to produce new product in their banner years affecting the quality control.

Ditto

In Real Time is easily my favourite from those

Each to his own.

I find that I really like the sample tracks and have bought the CD.

Fairports have always had a gentle edge and the musicianship is always there too. Right from tracks like "to althea from Prison","Banks of Primroses" and "Hiring Fair". They do it so well.

I also like love the idea of a Cropredy Tribute Song, because Cropredy is my Adult Christmas.

Lets allow ourselves room to differ.

I don't think we're differing Trev.
As Al said , this album is  more of the same from this  incarnation of Fairport. Some will like it, some won't.

In Real Time is excellent (fake live album or not, most "live" albums have been tweaked, but that's a topic worthy of its own thread) - have actually just re-purchased a digital copy to replace my cassette !

WKWTTG is pretty good - about 3/4s of a good album, currently out of print, I believe and quite underrated. John Gaudie, The Bowman's Retreat, The Golden Glove, and Dangerous stand out, not to mention Ric's marvellous twin fiddle arrangement of WKWTTG that they play to this day.

XXXV isn't bad - a couple of duffers on there but My Love Is In America and Everything But The Skirl are essentials.

A Sense Of Occasion - half a good album struggling to get out. Hawkwood's Army and The Bowman's Return are highlights.
Their attempt to make Best Wishes the new Meet On The Ledge, however, was a bit of a misstep.

By Popular Request had a good selection of tracks, but check my quote earlier in this very thread about the auto-tuned vocals.

50:50@50 - I'll buy it and reserve judgement until I've heard the whole thing. As I've said, Gub sums up the nature of this release very well.

OK, here goes.
I listened to the samp!es hoping something off the new materia! would grab me.
Unfortunately nothing did. It all sounds the same as the background music that fills the last half dozen albums.
Yes, it is well played. Nobody disputes the musical ability of any of the chaps. Its just it all sounds so familiar.
    They need to go to Steve Albini or some other producer with no history of folk music to make a record that souds different,  maybe even surprising, and possibly record it together rather than their current modus operandi which Ha's !ead to a!bums which all sound identical to each other.
   So my incomplete set of FC records will be a bit more incomplete!

Allegedly Robert Plant is on it..........

http://www.uncut.co.uk/news/robert-plant-appear-new-fairport-convention-album-98960

Nothing alleged about it.
He is on it.

The source I got it from is clearly out-of-date then ;D

Philip

Allegedly.....

I'm quite looking forward to this. I really Like XXXV. so this could be a goodun

Oh thank goodness... at last a positive comment!

then again.......

a triumph of hope over experience?

XXXV was around as I came back to music in general after a long break, Its the best of the "modern" albums (IMHO).
I'll give the new one a go, same as I give them all a go.

Anyone heard it yet?

Listened to some of the snippets on the website...sounds all right to me especially the Jacque McShee collaboration

Or maybe he was drunk when he wrote it. A triumph of hops over experience.

Picked up a copy of the cd at the chaps' Celtic Connections gig in Glasgow last night - listened to it on the drive in to work this morning & it cheered that up no end!

No surprises - there's no radical change of direction - there's a few new songs by Chris (& one by PJ Wright in a style not a million miles away from Chris'!) mixed in with some enjoyable live tracks & a couple of pleasant guest appearances.  Those who like & enjoy the band's current incarnation will love it - those who don't ... well you know. ;)

Spot on GS - currently listening to it for the 4th straight run - first being on the drive back home to Dumfries last night! It is excellent and certainly the best of the "late crop" although missing the "anniversary/Cropredy" recordings atmosphere and variety. I do wish they'd add a female singer to do justice to THOSE songs at least - Judy Dyble (for historical reasons), Thea Gilmour (well she lives in Oxon doesn't she?), Jacqui McShee (well she is on the current CD but I feel she belongs else where), Linde Nijland OR my absolute favourite currently Byrony Holden (why-oh-why has she/Tinkerscuss never played in the Borders/Lake District :thinking Kendal Brewery Centre or Penrith Rheggad Centre?). AND to miss out "Who Knows Where The Time Goes?" - guessing THAT shadow is just too big!!

No longer resident in Oxon, she's lived in Nantwich in God's Own County of Cheshire for some time, close on twenty years I would have thought.

the rheged centre is the worst venueat which i have ever attended a gig

Well, I'm absolutely with you on that one. Saw Fairport Acoustic there a few years back (around about the time of Sense of Occasion), and it was dire. Terrible acoustics, and basically it was just a case of watching a band in the middle of a shopping centre.

Got my copy of the CD today.

I think its really strong, and not at all twee (as someone rudely posted). As usual brilliantly played. I think it might turn out to be a future favorite for me.

Love the Cropredy song too ( twee?? perhaps but special, I don't get included in the subject matter of too many songs).

Bet I know what they play at 4pm. Make a change from Walk a While or Festival bell (both of which I hope are still in the semi acoustic welcome set).

How is that rude? It is a legitimate perception. Tweeness has been a factor in most of their album releases since the late 80s to a greater or lesser extent imho. It characterises a style of song which is just a bit too saccharine or jaunty either melodically or lyrically, of which there are an increasing hatful in the catalogue.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/twee

Received my copy today, on first listen really enjoyed it, especially some of the live tracks which are sufficiently different from the studio versions, the only track that feels wrong is John Condon I love this song but this version does not add anything to the one on Myths and Heroes.

On a different note: packaging.

Is the inside of the packaging supposed to be completely blank? I only ask as it seems a bit odd. And also some of the gold foil is missing from the lettering on the front.

I see my earlier response to Trev's post has been censored/ deleted when all I did was to, politely, point out the incongruity of his post.
     It would have been nice to get a pm telling ng me what rule I had contravened and I only found out when another member contacted me to inform me what had happened.
     Is not being a great fan of the bands current output such a crime here?
     Had I been nasty then I could understand being censored. Perhaps my remark from a day or two ago about FC's poor websites over the years upset Colin and I am now to be silenced whenever I criticise the band.
      Free speech, done I think, without malice now seems only applies to those who are happy with all things Fairport.
     

Doesn't sound right. Send some email to the Office.

Sorry Trev, you're a mate but I'm confused.
The albums not at all twee but 'the Cropredy song' might be? ??? ;)

Here's my review, after a fair few listens:
The good:
Eleanor's Dream is great song, and a strong start to the record. Nice instrumentation, interesting lyrics.
The live songs are impressive, and reinforces my view that Fairport are predominantly a live band. Nice to have a recent take on Lord Marlborough.
The not so good:
Our bus rolls on and Summer by the Cherwell are exceptionally twee, even the arrangements sound twee (if that is possible). Banal lyrics, not for me, move on. This is disappointing because the last couple of records in songs such as Mercy Bay and Man in the Water showcased just what they can do.
The interweaving of live and recorded songs doesn't work for me. It destroys any flow, and feels like you're listening to a playlist on shuffle.
On balance I enjoy it, but can't help thinking that it lacks the oomph and energy of the latest Steeleye record, who are of a similar vintage. Still, I'm really looking forward to the live shows.

On first spin... I quite enjoyed it.  Not the finest modern FC album, but better than some...

Agree with Adam about the flow - I'd have preferred a 2CD set split studio & live.

The live FC tracks - "not the usual suspects" - very enjoyable. Not sure that John Condon is the best they've ever played it - but I guess its inclusion is because of the recording's location, and maybe emotions were thus affected?

Listening again to The Devil's Work - the instrumental section's arrangement (reverb'd lecky guitar etc) reminds me so much of the Albion Band circa Prospect/Rise Up.

I think the inside is meant to be blank: all the info is on the booklet tucked into the left-hand side. The lettering definitely isn't right though: there's no gold missing on my copy.

I like the album on the whole. It does stray too far into twee territory on occasion, but not as often as the samples on the site would have led me to believe. I'd put it in third place after Myths and Heroes and Festival Bell, but I do like it.

Autograph spot..........

My CD arrived yesterday and I must say it really is a mixed bag. With only 6 new songs out of 14 tracks, it isn't exactly what I was expecting. I agree with others that the best of the new songs are 'Eleanor's Dream' and 'The Lady of Carlisle'. The collaboration with Robert Plant ('Jesus on the Mainline') is enjoyable too. I like that the other live tracks are not the usual suspects, but I don't see that they add much, to be perfectly honest. 'Summer By the Cherwell' and 'Our Bus Rolls On' are lightweight, although I could probably see myself singing along in the field if the conditions were right. I've been a fan of recent albums, but with the odd exception, I can't say that there's anything on here that's any better than anything on 'Festival Bell' or 'Myths and Heroes'.

One of my other long time favourites are The Moody Blues and they haven't released anything new since 2003 and that was a Christmas album - the last 'proper album' they released was 'Strange Times' in 1999. However, they are still a phenomenal live band. Fairport are, in my opinion, in that category too, in that they can still do it live and have a wonderful back catalogue (and I'm not just talking about only the pre 1985 stuff).

Anyway, that's my humble opinion, for what it's worth.

As an aside, I'm looking at it on the Fairport site.If I go to order via the Paypal it does not show anything about International shipping, or rates of any kind, just what I assume is a UK postage rate. Do I take that to mean that I will have to wait (even from the site) for the official release date in March?

email the office.

Will do Andy, thanks!

Elanors Dream sounds good. Devil's dream 'sounds' ok but DIY. hmmm.

Will wait for it to appear on Spotify/Napster to listen in full.

Quite liked M&H's so might be ok.

but defo sounds Twee. Very very Twee. "Peggy on Bass with a smiling face".........!!!! :o :o :-[ :-X :'(

That sounds like something from 'Angel Delight'.

Was Dave the Drum passing by?

There's the evidence, right there.
Tweeness was around, even on their '70's efforts.

Aye, but it was (generally) listenable.  Not always, mind!

That truly awful Hungarian Rhapsody springs to mind.   ::)

The very thing that was in my head.  That's one hell of an earworm to have.....  ;D

It's utterly terrible. Is it twee, though?

Yes, embarrassingly so imo Peter.

You're not kidding!

I don't think so. Given the sardonic nature of the lyrics, it is anything but. It may not be in good taste and it may not be their finest hour (very little on that album is) but not twee according to the dictionary definition. Perversely I rather like it. Me With You on the other hand...

Come on Al, now that is being perverse!

I like Al's definition of Twee. Was their Twee folk stuff in the 60's , 70's ?
 Loads of cringeworthy stuff, SI tu for starters then day trip to Bangor, all around my Hat , match stalk men!!!!!!!! I could go on Carott, Harding .......
but for Fairports the occassional self indulgent ( twee) lyric was saved by the music. Angel delight being an example for me.
It is when lyrics and music becomes twee in what is best described as 'the Wurzels meets Day trip to Bangor'
Oo arr. Oo Arrr Ey!

There definitely was. To me it is that brand of cozy, unthreatening , major chorded, singalong "folk" that was perpetuated by the likes of The Spinners and to some extent The Seekers, that was entirely embraced by our parents and which was the very thing that Liege & Lief was delivering us from. Unfortunately Fairport have repeatedly lapsed into this territory since 1985.

The Houghton Weavers were going in the 1970s. Twee as they come. Good lads though: I grew up in the small town that they're from; one of them used to work with my dad, and helped us move house once.

Just getting a wee bit off topic  :-\

Not really Colin. We are talking about some of the material on the new CD, or at least our perception of it.

Agreed.

Are they relying too much on Chris Leslie these days? They used to have a team like Ralph McTell, Steve Tilston etc who regularly wrote a diverse and interesting range of songs. If you stick to one main writer you will get similar songs. Think about Status Quos output over the years. The albums people are referring back to had a very different personnel, RT, Sandy etc. If you like the current style, you'll be fine and well looked after, if you don't, move on.

At risk of further derailin this thread, I have to say that without The Spinners, through whom I first heard Matty Groves and enjoyed many concerts, I would probably not have the same love of folk music that I have today.

Yes, the Spinners were a very harmonic chatty group who knew what their audience wanted and gave it to them! Didn't change much over the years and remained very popular. Hmmmm.....take note .

I think that you've hit the nail on the head, although I think Mercy Bay and a couple of others are standout tracks precisely because they sound a bit different to his other compositions.

Frankly, the oomph in the band only returns with RT & DM ::) ::)

Yes, but not to his enormous strengths.  I often lay awake at night worrying about his poor fiddles sobbing themselves to sleep unloved and unplayed.

Did they move to some kind of twee house?  ::)

A twee bit off topic?  ;D

I get a bit fed up with the high pitched urgency of mandolin ( or whatever that fiddly instrument is).

...and Maart!! We need Maart!!  ;)

 Got the cd a few says ago (very fast delivery to Sweden I must say) and at first I did'nt understand the logic or concept of the album, half new recordings and half live recordings. A throwaway or missed opportunity, I thought. But now that i've listened to it four or five times I really like it.  "Eleanor's Dream" is a really strong opener and "Step by Step" grows on you ( a simple but beautiful song). "The Lady of Carlisle" with Jacqui McShee is another keeper. On the negative side "Our Bus Rolls On" and "Summer by the Cherwell" are both syrupy and selfgloryfying (and I didn't like "The Crowd" either). Instrumentally they sound good but the lyrics... The quality control must have been out for lunch. The live recordings are mostly very good (two songs from 70:s, one from the 80:s, one from the 90:s and two recent songs) that cover a part of the bands history. But I could've done without yet another recording of "Portmeiron" (when you've heard it a couple of times it becomes quite boring)
And then there's the fine version of "Jesus on the Mainland" with mr Plant on vocals.  Re the "twee discussion": Maybe two of the 14 tracks fall into that category but the rest definitely not.

Are you Swedish LarWes?  If you are - please excuse the pun - your English is tweemendous.  :-X

As much as I like it, I do think that Mercy Bay has run its course, for a while at least.

Never has an "of course" raised more questions than it answers...  :)

Hear, hear. And hear again. I know he's an accomplished player but there's just too much of it. The band needs the roar of a Maart to underpin the music and stop it getting, er, twee (I didn't want to use That Word but it is the best description  :()

It is an observation that has been made regularly on this forum for the entire time that I have been a member (and often by me!) that choosing to replace Maart with an acoustic musician when he left took the band away from their core purpose, what made them special as the founding fathers and guardians of British Folk Rock. This is no reflection on Chris's talents and Heaven knows they needed a songwriter but the "rock" part of the equation left with Maart and the last 20 years has seen them as essentially a very accomplished but rather safe and cosy (and occasionally dull) acoustic act.

I think the tendancy - and whilst Chris recently is responsible so has been Swarb's songwriting and also Simon's choices of song in the past - is towards "whimsy" rather than twee. Fairport have often strayed there: Hungarian Rhapsody, Big William, Night Time Girl, Me With You, London Danny, Ginnie etc etc all fit in the same space the main difference being they were just one on an album. My listening of the new cd suggests Devil's Work, Our Bus Rolls On, Summer by the Cherwell, Step by Step are all whimsical tracks and dominate the overall feel without enough folk rock scaffolding to hold it up as a whole.

DW

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.  

I'd also add that DM was a rock drummer, whereas (the very wonderful) Gerry C isn't, at least not in the same way.  Musically this might well be nonsense, but I think I know what I mean  :)

And I think I agree with you. Gerry is indeed very wonderful but somehow to my ears almost more of a percussionist than a rock drummer per se. There is an absence of attack in his drumming, which entirely suits the more lightweight nature of the modern Fairport repertoire. But DM had attack in spades, alongside his sublime good taste and technical ability in his approach to any given song. I think part of the reason that the last album that really works for me is WKWTTG is because it retains DM's heft, amongst what is otherwise the current line up.

I know exactly what you mean David.
I'd also suggest that imho,  Martin Lamble was the perfect cross between the two of them.

There are many of us who love the current line up and its feel. Its not rock and roll ,it isn't supposed to be.

On Saturday on the five hour journey back from our Welsh Cup win at Haverfordwest,I had 50/50@50 on my headphones and as we drove through Artists Valley with the coast on one side and the mountains on the other Portmerion came on. In the weak evening winter sunlight I was really moved by the beauty. Almost spiritual.

FC can do that to me. Call it twee, if you like .But to me its just outstanding.

For me it was never Maarts parting. It was DM with whom the Rock left Fairport.
Just listen to John Gaudie and Bowmns retreat an Spanish main

Gerry is a nice chap and a superb percussionist, but not a good rock drummer. He has no punch at all.
It would have been fantastic with both in the band, DM for drumming and Gerry on percussion.
Just listen to the fantastic things he has done an western winds and the percussion numbers on the first Excalibur live album.

The interview with Peggy and Chris would appear to show you're absolutely right.  It's a comfy old pair of slippers approach.  Fair enough, they've earned it if that's what they (and you) want.  

I'm fairly certain Cropredy 2007 featured both on stage at the same time.  I remember that as being rather special, but I might well have imagined the whole thing.

I don't think anybody is arguing that they are twee in their entirety. It is just certain songs in the recent repertoire that have an excess of sentimentality, for want of a better word.

I would never suggest that Portmerion is twee, certainly not in its original recording. I agree that it is very moving. However I would question just how many recordings of it we need. This is what, the fourth or fifth? And it is not a tune that changes radically from one performance to another, unlike some.

I'm fairly certain Cropredy 2007 featured both on stage at the same time.  
[/quote]

It did. Can't remember the details, though.

It did. Can't remember the details, though.
[/quote]

Nor me. Earlier Crops also featured Bruce & DM in tandem, unless I'm mistaken.  :)

Nor me. Earlier Crops also featured Bruce & DM in tandem, unless I'm mistaken.  :)
[/quote]

Probably wrong, but I don't think that (apart from drumming in '84) I ever saw Bruce drumming again at Cropredy (I then went every year from '87).  He was often on stage, but generally only with a tambourine...

The shoehorning in of the Mandolin on song after song on the 'By Popular Request' album drove me potty at times. But then again its a statement of how the band plays those songs currently so probably a fair reflection.

Really interesting discussion .
I am not going to say anything new that hasn't been documented by people wiser than I but I will throw some thoughts in.
I have watched DM and Gerry for years cos I love  the drumming of both of them.
DM came very much from a show band background ,so had versatility. It is well documented that without him the folk rock  of Swarb and RT's jigs and  reels would not have developed as it did. So I don't see DM as a rock drummer. He adapts.
Gerry just has so much feel , a great supportive/ drummer percussionist . I love watching Gerry play.
Gerry's feel for a song, to play the song , means he can't play as a rock drummer in the present line up . Without Simon playing strong electric ,he would just swamp it. They are almost an acoustic band now, hence his cajon playing on the spring tours..His playing with Jethro Tull shows he has power when he needs it.
This is sacrilege but I wonder what would have happened if Chris had joined as fiddle player in 85 and then PJ Wright had replaced Maart in 96,. Pj's gtr leads, power chords.......and songwriting!
I love Chris's fiddle playing and i used to find Ric embellishing too much. Yes I know Swarb improvised and used fx pedals but it still had a folk rather than jazz, underbelly.
 Portmerion is beautiful by the way and I return to it regularly but don't need another recording of the same version.
So DM and Gerry are both up there in the world pantheon of drummers for me.
I was lucky enough to be able to watch Gerry from very close up , playing with Fotheringay,at New Forest Folk Fest last year and I sat and watched an hours masterclass in sensitivity , technique and accompiament. Stunning, tight rhythm section just (!) supporting the guitars of Jerry and PJ.
Also Remember Simon Nicol and Gerry C are 2 of the best accompianists out there. Simon can be immensely underrated cos his gtr can get lost.
Sadly I just don't like the bulk of what they are playing at present.

You and I would certainly be far far happier.  And I wonder if DM would have stayed?

Anyway, what we all seem agreed on is that some time around 1996 or 97, possibly for a combination of reasons, Fairport lost the rock. What is interesting is that when that happened they did not become a folk band, they became a kind of acoustic adult contemporary band. So they lost the folk too. And the new album is what results.

I have enjoyed them on many occasions in the last 20 years but I do feel an ambivalence that was not there previously and that stems from the loss of exhilaration that came from their electric performances.

That's a very good way of putting it...

Totally agree about Gerry. His soft touches, and blasts when required are perfection. The style of Fc at present don't do him justice or allow him to explore his full capability. I do think he is more of a percussionist than pure out and out drummer, but he can straddle the range (one of my favourites is Neil Peart who also has the full range). Yes, I am putting Gerry in the same sentence as the God Mr Peart.
I like Rics embellishments, and when he and Chris duel its heaven (John Gaudy). Ric on Hiring Fair always takes me to a new place where everything is good, and Gerry compliments the whole audio picture with perfection. Hiring Fair at 2015 Cropredy was the highlight of the weekend for me.

Yep , I loved Hiring Fair that yr too cos I can remember commenting , Ric is playing it straight.

For me the change from folk/rock to "adult acoustic" (for want of a better description) began while both DM and Maart were still both on board with the Five Seasons album.
The production became smoother but somehow the magic was lost and has never really returned.
I realise I am probably alone in thinking this.

I wouldn't hugely disagree Bill. I think it is a weak album but I have huge love for the wounded whale. Overblown. Over the top. Self indulgent........and wonderful.
I think , 85 to 97 , they didn't have  a songwriter and didn't want to delve in to Cecil Sharp territory as folk was hugely uncool in the late 80's.( Discuss!) so they went down a singer songwriter route and some great writers at that.
Arrangements became overblown, they were a technically excellent live band , who could play with passion and fire ,who have never captured that effectively enough in the studio,
It works when they play organically w, all in the same room ,rather then overdubs.........but this is of course just my opinion!

So we think of Gerry Conway as Fotheringay, Cat Stevens and his lyrical playing with Fairports......but he could also do this.
If you want to skip some keyboards(!) go to 1.43
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hZnys72xhuc

Lets not forget real lows such as Gold or London River. These were never going to be classics, and in 16 years of following FC I have never heard them played live. The new album doesn't sink that low.

One more thing: Summer by the Cherwell.  As somebody who lived on the banks of that lovely river in Oxford for two years (it actually was right outside my front door), I've never really understood why Fairport don't seem to be able to pronounce its name.

You aren't



ok i'll bite. How's it pronounced?

I think I would and not just because I like the album (it being their first studio release after I first saw them live). I also adore The Wounded Whale but the bigger defence is the inclusion of the great Claudy Banks and the two instrumentals. Plenty of electric guitar in evidence on all three, a traditional song (from Sussex no less) and a Morris homage. There is folk and rock or indeed, folk rock right there and between them those four songs make up nearly half the album. I sort of agree that the production is too slick though.



Gold was regularly played live on the 1991 Wintour. I don't actually think it is a bad song but it is not a "Fairport" song. There were a few songs in that era that should have been on Simon's solo albums and there have been a few recent ones that make me think he should do another one to get this stuff out of his system. And that is not to diss his solo albums which, to a large extent, I like.

The following album, which most people seem to like but which I am not so fond of really does drop the folk element and goes the adult contemporary route in terms of material but retains some electricity. The Wood & the Wire is the album where the sound really softens to where it has remained ever since.

i wont disagree about The Claudy Banks only to say that it isnt a patch on The "No Roses" version which will probably have been familiar to most of the old timey FC fans. Still the record as a whole just feels flat and unappealing.

I totally agree with this, but frustratingly my favourite ever live performance of theirs was the acoustic band at the 100 Club in London, around the time Over The Next Hill was released! Chris and Ric having a violin-off to I'm Already There was epic. Mind you, I only saw them once with Maart, but I played the Maart albums and videos a lot.

Anyway, whatever we say, they are what they are. We take them or leave them.

Quite right Jim. I had forgotten about the No Roses version. I was not familiar with it when I first heard the Fairport rendition and I am not especially fond of No Roses (I know I am speaking heresy but I have never warmed to Shirley Collins's voice. There is something about it that reminds me of whoever sang nursery rhymes on Listen With Mother for the BBC on the wireless when I was small) so the Fairport version is definitive for me.

Char-well.

Al , you were absolutely right about Claudy Banks , I had forgotten!

Al, I've been trying to put my finger on what Shirley's voice reminded me of... And you've nailed it!

I do quite like Shirley's singing, though...

If my memory is right, they did one Winter tour with DM and Chris - 1997 (or maybe two)?  I saw this lineup with some excitement at Swansea...and remember feeling really relieved at how good it all was.  

I've never liked The Five Seasons.  

I do like the description (if not the sound) of Acoustic Adult Contemporary.  Hit's the nail on the spot.  

I think maybe 'our' point would be Fairport could be Folk, they could be Rock, we'd love them to be Folk-Rock, but this sounds like none of those things......

It's the 1980's Radio 2-ness of it all that I don't like.  And yet, peversely, I sort of like Simon's solo albums....maybe because it's all upfront.  It's a strange thing.

With Chris adding some oomph with a red electric guitar and possibly the batocaster as well - certainly he played lead electric on the '97 tour.

DW

Yes I saw that tour too, featuring a blistering version of Spanish Main. The change of direction was obviously a conscious decision after that tour. Presumably Chris felt that this role was not playing to his strengths.



Indeed and indeed. Solo albums should be distinct from those of the parent band so Simon's approach on his records seems entirely reasonable but the distinction became blurred, possibly not helped by the band playing his solo material on tour and at Cropredy for a number of years around their release.

Off topic but.......Isn't this a bit like 'Shrews bury....-v- Shrowsbury'.... pronounciation?  :D

As for the cd....I always go to the WinTour but very much doubt I shall buy the cd. The last few albums for me fall in to the category of 'some great songs on there but not enough to want the cd.'

I lived in Oxfordshire for 10 years and it was pronounced Charwell by some and Cherwell by others, I recall asking a real local how to pronounce it and he told me it was 'Cherwell', so I've always said it that way.

OK, back to the topic!

Right i've listened to the new cd so i can now have an informed view of it.
The live tracks are all pretty superfluous,not adding anything to the
versions already out there. The Plant track is ok but not much more.
     Chris's original songs are, still i think' more suited to his solo work
varying as they do from toe curling (devils work,our bus, summer by the cherwell) to decent (Eleanors dream)
 it smacks of a rush job, they needed a new record out for the wintour so padded a few new songs out with
old material.
  Yes its well played, we are all aware of their musical chops but it just feels empty
sorry that's as positive as i can be about it.
Yet again i feel disappointed by another FC release, i really want them to do a great record again but it just
isn't happening for me anymore.

I feel I agree with most of what' s been said about the New album. Maybe my old Heroes as a band and me as a fan and listener are too much stuck in The Comfort Zone. How much I have loved Portmerion over the years, another version on a New offering from my band was not what I longed for most.
Having bought our Saturday tickets today, I will Love going back to Cropredy once again but it will only be three tracks from this CD that I would want to be played from that stage in August: John Condon - Beautiful melody and a gripping theme - Step by Step - I like the lyrics, in Love as I am   8)  and a blistering Danny Jack' s Reward with horns. But it will still be my band, we have that long history together.

Jim,
I haven't got album but I read somewhere(!) that Summer by the Cherwell is written by PJ Wright, very much in the style of Chris.

yes, you are quite correct, my mistake i hadn't looked at the songwriting credits

Soz Jim. Wasn't scoring points. I was just a bit sad that PJ was writing in that style.

Maybe, after years of us wanting him in the role, he really does want the gig after all...

ah, but they wont want to split the take 6 ways

I had this on in the car for most the week for the commute. It's OK. The opening track is almost folk rock, and the live tracks are enjoyable. I can't actually remember the new tracks, although the one about the bus was pretty... bad.

I know I have been told to be positive and supportive ....but......
We are celebrating 50 years of the creators of Folk Rock..
To hear the album described as having one track that is 'almost folk rock.' is very sad to me and really damning with faint praise.

I agree with that statement wholeheartedly Dave, but surely the title 'Creators of Folk Rock' belongs to The Byrds?  :)

Alternative Fact!

British traditional folk rock...

 


This from The Byrds third album recorded between January and May 1966.
Nobody could deny that this isn't folk rock, at least 2 years before FC's first album.

https://youtu.be/Fe5V3-sWQeA

Why are we so scared of saying 'English' these days?

I'm not a bit scared of saying English - but a fair portion of it has strong Scottish roots. (Tam Lin, for a start)...

I think we've agreed on a suitable musicaldescription for them these days back up the thread, which I pretty much agree with.

From a personal point of view, all the comparing to the old band each time there's something new comes along is getting quite tiresome. In this line-up, I think we've agreed they'll not revert to the old style, so simply repeating your comparison/dislike etc is a little pointless? Just repetively saying you prefer the old?...come on, there must be something new to say?

We were discussing what genre they created originally - not quite the same....

Yes. And from the same album this old song. Scottish, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEwqhaikDmg

Correct, my Swedish pal!  ;)

Is something I would say to the band!

DW

I agree Chris. The band has changed and developed the same as anything that's been around for 50 years - none of us looks/sound/feel the same as we did 50 years ago. I wonder if the band moans about us (the fans) changing the way we moan about them? "Oh you never see the fans dance any more - too busy lowering themselves slowly into a chair and rabbiting about their medication" or "Remember when our fans used to just go out and buy our records and play them before they made judgements on them?"

I jest of course, but you get my drift  :)

I am jealous of you all hearing this, still waiting for mine to arrive. I will listen with an open mind, based on all my biases about this band I love.

Since the very first gig of Fairport's I attended and the very first Cropredy I was at people have been complaining in the same way, no good since Richard left, Bruce is not as good as DM, don't even mention the fiddler, not enough guitar, too many keyboards in the Maart era, good to know we will all have something to talk/complain about as we descend into the mists of the ages.

Neil

Absolutely.  Which is why it's preposterous to try and stifle debate and opinion (and imagine that there isn't anything negative to say).  I find it hilarious that people complain about what they see as endless moaning, by endlessly moaning about the endlessly moaning  :)  

Fwiw, I will try and be more positive - you forget the position of pure love and fandom for the band that my feelings comes from.  To expect me to just walk away (ho, ho) without a care in the world is unrealistic and insulting. They are what they are...get over it seems to be the message.  Can't do that.  But I do note that there is a feeling I (and others) are being too negative...  I'll work on it.  My counsellor says it will be fine (joking aside, I did talk about this in counselling the other day!).

I for o0ne wasn't complaining about the complaining per se, just on those whose main comment/complain is made again & again like an old record.

If the cap fits, at least try & make a new angle on it, rather than a general "not more of the same" comment, of which you are guilty, David, and I don't think you've even bought it to listen to it?

...but I have and it is the very definition of "more of the same" by virtue of the fact that it recycles so many old songs. I maintain that it is an odd concept and not what one might hope for as a celebration of the 50th anniversary but, of course the anniversary is an illusion. It is more genuinely the 20th anniversary of this band, which is a completely different entity to that which went before and which has its own admirers who also seem different to those who loved the earlier incarnations. Even so, for lovers of the current band, I don't imagine that the new album will be a long term favourite. The new songs are not their best for the most part. I personally tend to cherry pick from the albums by this line up. I can always find some stuff I like, if not the entire albums but it is slim pickings here, though I agree with whoever said that Step By Step is a highlight.

Constructive criticism like this I find fine.....but a one-liner without buying/listening to the *whole* album I think is utterly piointless and gets the thread nowhere?

My point was not to stop but maybe this is how we all have always related to this band. We have a vested interest in the band and therefore always have an opinion.

It would also be less English not to complain and moan about what we are actually liking in some way.

Neil, still waiting for the album so I can join in.

David we often agree but Sandy brought an Irish influence and Swarb a lot of Scottish influences and tunes.

Can I say ,to others on this thread ,that I feel I have never moaned or complained, I have always tried to give an honest response to things like line up and new albums.
It does annoy me that what I hope is objective criticism is seen as moaning, complaining or not being supportive.
I am searching for reviews of the album.any body come across any?

When it's up on Spotify, I'll give a review of it!  :)

Calm down! Calm down! Is there any need for all this back-biting? I agree that it's good to express an opinion but if you don't like it no-one is forcing you to listen to it...

  It is more genuinely the 20th anniversary of this band, which is a completely different entity to that which went before and which has its own admirers who also seem different to those who loved the earlier incarnations.


I got into Fairport relatively late (2003), my first Cropredy as well. I liked folk/rock/reggae/etc etc. My feeling is there have been some superb songs by the current line up, and some amazing work by the previous incarnations. I could easily enjoy a Best Of from the current line up, from any of their last 4 or 5 albums. Similarly there are songs from the previous 20 years I could leave out. They have changed, they do rely too much on Chris for song writing. But, they are not the same band. This is a celebration year for a name rather than anything else. Simon may well be the only original member but his influence was not huge to the song writing in the early days, so he cannot be seen as the guiding light. Dave has held a crumbling history together, often on his own, and for that he deserves all the credit in the world. But its not the same band. Mike and Keef can rightly claim the heritage of the stones because they own it from day one. Fairport, like Yes, are a name that continues, and we love them for it, but its not the same band. The new album goes some way to pulling the pieces together. Its their choice. We must respect them for that!

I can't look at YouTube at work - does this have a fiddle on it..?  [;-) ::)

Mumbles "neither does FC's first album" under his breath.  Which made me check the credits on WWDOOH as well.  Could have sworn blind that had no violin on it either.  But it does.  Played by Martin apparently.  On what?  Anybody near to a copy....?

M1 breakdown and Portfolio I do believe  :D

Thanks, Jude  :)

It does have violins on it.

Too much violins in music today. What is the world coming too!  ;) ;D

And too much sax...

Good work, everybody.  ;D

.....and Mandolin.......
..gets coat....

there is another version without the sweeping strings on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CrpAO6td88

I have been listening to this again in the car and, whilst many of my original reservations remain, I do have to admit that it is a fantastically well recorded album. There is a warmth to the production and every instrument and vocal is crystal clear and exactly where it should be in the mix, even on the live material, which is quite an achievement. I am beginning to wonder if the live takes of Mercy Bay and John Condon are actually superior to the live versions.

Not keen at all on the updated Danny Jack by the way. It sounds lumpen and cluttered to me.

You may wish to consider rewriting that line, Gub.   ;)

Jules

Live - as in played live at gigs, I'm guessing

I'm guessing he meant recorded.

That's how I interpreted it - a "live" recording as opposed to seeing the band live playing them.

Either way, it's great to hear a positive comment about the album!  :)

You are right. I may. I meant the live recordings superior to the original studio versions.

Yes, Chris dear, that much I worked out.

 ::)

Jules

I was wrong though, so were you!

You were.  It turns out though that Gub meant what I suspected he had.  (The quote above not being my own.)

Jules

I see that Rocket 88 books are giving away the album with every copy of their Fairport by Fairport this month.

I'd love to see the figures in 4 week's time.

For the book or CD?

I imagine they'll be the same, Chris.

Sorry, thought you might mean that the CD numbers overall might fly upwards! :-)

Or they'll do nowt....

Got my copy on Friday. This is my review-

I like it. The End

 ;D

I know where my money's going....  ;) :)

I ordered my copy from the website on the 23rd, and it hasn't turned up yet.  Should I be concerned yet?

There's one on Ebay ;D

I don't think so, the tour only completed last night.

If it hasn't arrived by this weekend, then maybe send a message to the office.

I had a little snafu on mine-ordered maybe the first week of February, and got confirmation via Paypal, but waited 3 weeks with no sign of it. Contacted Gareth at the office who immediately took care of it, and I got my copy on Friday. Being in the UK yourself, I think it is worth inquiring about.

Dropped him a line today as it still hadn't arrived, after two weeks, and he said that Paypal hadn't forwarded the order to him, but that a copy will be in the post today.

Basically what happened to me too. Glad you got it sorted. I hated to bother him but he was very helpful and took care of it right away so he gets a huge thumbs up for that.

We'll, Robin Denselow likes it...4 star review in the Grauniad.

Can anyone tell for sure if Chris is playing a 5 string banjo on the 'Lady Of Carlisle' ? (does it say in the liner notes? - I'm listening on Spotify)  I'm pretty sure he is playing more of a clawhammer style on this track but I have only ever seen Chris play a Tenor (4 string) Banjo before. I'm interested as I'm learning it at the moment.
cheers

Best 'new' track on the album by the way :)
I wish they would do more trad arr.

Sleeve notes credit Chris with "banjo" - no further detail, I'm afraid.

Listened now on Spotify and my thoughts:

As far  the new songs are concerned Lady Eleanor's Dream is ok but forgettable, Step by Step typical Chris whimsy and the track with Jacqui is pretty good but doesn't really go,anywhere. Otherwise the new additions are uniformly dreadful - Devils Work, Our Bus and Summer by the Cherwell are all very poor and whilst one can accept on such novelty track on an album to have three is very poor decision making by FC, are these really the best they could come up with?

Thankfully the live stuff is much stronger and represents a good selection of the back catalogue but as they did their "favourites" album a few years ago with the 45 cd no real surprises are forthcoming, and probably not expected.

I understand this is what Fairport is now in terms of instrumental  style and gentle approach - and that is fine, I am a big fan of Chris Leslie - but that does not mean they should let the standard of song slip as badly as they have on this, a celebration of the 50th anniversary. Once again one cannot fault the musicianship on show, the production is as good as any recent album but the material is a real let down.

DW

Repeat after me...'Nicol', 'Sanders'... http://theafterword.co.uk/fairport-convention-505050/  [;-)

By any stretch of the imagination that is dreadful writing.

DW

It took me quite a few listens before I noticed that The Lady of Carlisle is fundamentally the same story as the Lady with a Fan section of the Grateful Dead's Terrapin Station.

Robert Hunter did Lady Of Carlisle on his Jack O'Roses album which featured his version of the full Terrapin Suite. Great song.

Box Of Rain (Hunter/Lesh)
Reuben And Cerise (Garcia/Hunter)
Talkin' Money Tree (Hunter)
Friend Of The Devil (Dawson/Garcia/Hunter)
Delia DeLyon And Stagger Lee (Hunter)
Lady Of Carlisle (Traditional)
Book Of Daniel (Hunter / Freiberg)
Terrapin :
     i) Lady With A Fan (Garcia/Hunter)
     ii) Terrapin Station (Garcia/Hunter)
     iii) Ivory Wheels/Rosewood Track (Hunter)
     iv) Jack O' Roses (Hunter)
Prodigal Town (Hunter)

Goodness Me!  The bus rolls on. A bit of light entertainment.  Even the Beatles did it with Yellow Submarine.  For goodness sake they have to a  bit of a break from thr hard core   We remember Sandy  crowd.

Have a 'bit of a break from the hardcore' by all means, but just don't record and release it.
The 'Cherwell' one is equally dire too.

But when the new album is dominated by "light entertainment" it becomes a problem.

DW

IMHO I just think you are all being hyper critical. That is all

And someone said they thought The Dead were too niche to do a poll on this forum. I'm guessing not!
We all know Ric enjoys wearing his Dead tee's with pride. Nice to see a bit of other influences creeping in.

You don't have to buy it.....

As we are entitled to be. And it is not just the "we miss Sandy" brigade. I never saw or consciously heard the band until 1989 and there are a number of songs from that era that I regard as below par alongside many which I love but there has never been an album that contained quite such an overwhelming whiff of novelty, jocular, lightweight songs amongst the new material. It has no substance, which in the year of such a significant anniversary is a very strange decision. That was not the case with the previous two albums imho. They were flawed as the recent TAW poll reflects but I liked at least two thirds of each of them.

With the new album, take away the live material (which I will concede is enjoyable but unremarkable), one song sounds authentic but is unmemorable, one is pretty, one is a stodgy instrumental remake,  three are as discussed above, which leaves two to make their impact through the guests vocalists, which they do reasonably successfully but it is a poor return on investment, financial or emotional, overall.

I actually would be quite happy at this point for Fairport to never make another album but just to continue as a live unit, which is surely the primary source of their income. I suspect that they probably feel the same.

Set one up and find out.

Wise words

I was hanging on to see what they'd put on the vinly, but they seem to have front-loaded it with the studio tracks, which are the ones which seem to be getting a pasting around here.

Robin Denselow is right.  After reading all the moans and groans on this thread, I finally took delivery of 50/50, and you know what?  Its pretty damn good.  And I say that as someone who both has followed Fairport since the first album and has all too often been underwhelmed by recent output.  First off, the new CD is beautifully recorded - the sound is great.  Second, its a strong amalgam of back catalogue material and new songs.  I actually think Eleanor's Dream is a stronger song than any of Chris's other Franklin narratives.  There's a real vigour about all the tracks, not just the live, and Plant and Jacquie McShee add genuine variety.  This feels like a 'proper' Fairport album.

As a new contributor to the forum, I'm not going to have a go at the miserabalist nostalgia merchants, but the truth is that of course this is not the same band as the classic line-ups, but it has a life and a character of its own.  The February gig at Union Chapel was energised and accomplished - the highlight being Sally Barker's terrific performance of 'Rising for the Moon.'

This is a band that, somehow, has survived fifty years in a very tough business, is still going strong, and still means it. I for one appreciate that.

As long as your not going to have a go at "the misrablist nostalgia merchants" I will value your opinion and that of mr Denslow and to show no hard feelings I will share a pint at the next gig we chance to meet...but unfortunately I don't drink because in my version of nostalgia everyone is tone deaf and only enjoys a nice glass of milkshake ;)

 ;D very witty sir!

When the highlight of the gig is someone who isn't in the band adding some energising qualities whilst pretending to be somebody who used to be in the band well over 40 years ago, then...(well, you can fill in the rest of the sentence for yourself)  :-\

“It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Talkawhiler with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”  ;D

 ;D

🙌

This ^^^^  ;D

What?

PMSL.  :D

That sounds like a very harsh way to interpret a very positive review of the gig.  He said the whole gig was 'energised and accomplished', not that it was energised by Sally Barker's addition.  Seems fair enough to describe her contribution as a highlight, if he thought that was an especially good bit, but nothing in what he wrote suggests that it needed her contribution to lift the gig.  

Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear.....a veritable nest of nostalgic miserabilists.  Reading all the back pages of this and the Cropredy 2017 stream, its hard no to feel that some of you guys need to get out more....

Oh - and its quite possible to like the current Fairport as well as, say,  Sleaford Mods (who I for one would love to see at Croppers - if only to provoke the more venerable worshippers at the shrine of 1969)

Well, it's certainly possible to adore both Fairport and the Mods...on that we can agree  :)  Bizarrely they (the Mods, not sadly Fairport) are playing Wembley stadium in the summer - as guests of the Roses!

Well, I would, but getting out just isn't what it used to be.  ::)

David H, this is an open forum, where occasionally people gather to express their views. Sometimes, unsurprisingly these views can differ.
You obviously are enjoying the latest cd, whilst a handful of others aren't quite so impressed with it.
Unless I'm mistaken, this is the premise of Talkawhile - pleasant and friendly discussion.

Of course it is and most of the members here have extremely wide and varied tastes, as you will find if you delve back into the Listening To or Recent Gigs threads for example but your first assertion completely misrepresents them/us.

Disliking something is not an act of nostalgia. It is a qualitative assessment, albeit a subjective one. Is Paul McCartney's latest record as good as The Beatles? Is Triplicate as good as Blood On The Tracks? Of course they are not. That is not nostalgia. It is an acknowledgement that those records are not as innovative or exciting or fulfilling as their older work. And the same holds true for Fairport. If I don't like much of the new album it is not because it was not made in 1969 (when I was 5), 1979 or 1989, it is because the music doesn't move me and the lyrics don't stimulate my interest. There is plenty of music being made in 2017 that does both. It is entirely reasonable and understandable that band's/artists with Fairport's longevity will be assessed in the context of their past and will usually come up short. The bigger point is that there is other new music that I would prefer to listen to than what Fairport are currently providing to us and that is not nostalgic at all.

One of the most sensible posts on this thread, Gub...

I think it is quite funny that on a board dedicated to Fairport Convention it isn't possible to just say "Hey, I like the new album" without being called to order. Rays of sunshine indeed ; - )

Well I've been a supporter of most of Fairport's recent output - I thought 'Myths and Heroes' was a fine album, for instance. But apart from one or two songs, the new album is a bit of a disappointment - particularly with only 6 new songs out of the 14 tracks and 3 of those (I'll leave it to you to decide which ones I'm talking about) being, shall we say, less than classics. I also think that if I disagree with an opinion expressed it doesn't make me right or wrong, just different..

like button

There is a kind of low grumbling tone about some of the posts here.  All I'll add is that my 24 year old son, who is largely immune  (and often downright hostile) to Fairport has been regularly playing 50:50 in our kitchen, with a slightly embarrassed 'actually, I quite this....for Fairport.'

I am also David H!!!!!! Hello!
Play him the original Sailors Life, just for me and see how he reacts.
If he hates it.........

I finally got round to buying this, though nearly didn't following all the negative comments on here. I'm glad I did as I really enjoyed it. All the live tracks are good and apart from "Devil's Work" I like all the new tracks.

All in all a good album.

I will do that.  'Unhalfbricking' will always be my favourite Fairport album - and 'Sailor's Life' a revelation at the time and still a monumental piece of work.  Ditto 'Percy's Song.'  

Good call. If he can sit through that, he can make it through pretty much anything...  ::)

 :o ::) ::) :-X ;)