TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Private house concert, anyone?  :)

http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/richardthompson

Have pledged for a download, but 32 and a half grand for a house concert ? Not including accommodation and travel ? Really ?

Does he really need the money?

He must've been only half-joking when he said words to the effect of "When I'm over 65, I become a living legend and I can double my fee"

Well perhaps he doesn't really want to do house concerts  ;D ::)

Presumably he has the option to say no I'm not doing that?

The whole list of offers seem a little odd, and most unlike RT's usual style.

Download apart, it looks horribly expensive for what's on offer.
I'm saddened to read it really.

I'm with Pete and Jim - it is odd, it doesn't seem his usual style, and I am a bit saddened to read it. With this and previously the £45 to see RT solo at Cadogan Hall, whatever next ?

Is there not just an unsigned CD option?

Yes, really sad to read this.
Looks like the big cash-in-machine is getting started.

Shocking and obscene prices (which will, of course, probably sell out).  Very disappointing  :(

Well, I think out of all of us, RT and his management included, you're clearly best-placed to decide that, aren't you?

Presumably once the CD comes out you'll simply be able to buy one at the usual places without pledging in advance?  

Maybe I wouldn't mind quite so much if it was new material, but it sounds very much like something he could knock out in his sleep.

I really enjoyed his performance at Cropredy a few years ago and I've no doubt his more recent live performances are still enjoyable, but imo, musically, he's been treading water for many years now.

Selling his soul, this is what Britney Spiers et al get up to not an artist with integrity.

And get it signed at a future gig probably!

Lol  :)

I like RT, but he isn't one of my very favourite artists. If he were, I'd find this really off -putting. (I din't even like the pre order prices for the Roy Harper vinyl). This is drawing you into buying a whole load of other stuff as well, which you may not want.

Some artists are well known for this kind of 'marketing'.  This (sky high gig tickets and stupidly expensive niche releases) is a brand new development with Thomo.  That's the reason for the disappointment, I'm guessing....

I'm hoping he doesn't take it one step further with a "VIP tickets and seating, with a backstage meet".
However, it's not just RT pushing this malarkey though is it?
 I'm just surprised that he's felt the need to join in.

I think the Roy Harper reissues need to be looked at in a very different light.
Harper was quite upfront about the fact that he was left practically broke after the court case and and that the reissues were one way of bringing in a little cash to alleviate the situation.

He might do if he's considering moving country. Can't say I'd blame him.

This sort of thing has been more and more common in the US, especially with folk artists.  Basically it seems like a way to bypass the record companies and self-fund the artist's next record.  The tiers that RT has are pretty much in line with what I've seen other artists do.  I was looking at the website yesterday and off the top of my head, I don't remember what the exact tiers were, but usually it's $20 for unsigned CD, $30 for the signed, etc., up to huge amount for private concert.

And honestly, it's never bothered me.  The couple artists that come to mind who have done it recently are Ellis Paul and Richard Shindell (I believe Fairport covered his song Reunion Hill on one of their recent CD's), and if it allows them more cut of the money, more artistic freedom, etc., good for them.  The way I understand it, most of the funding comes from the low-end pledges (the $20 to $30 pledges), as opposed to the house concert end pledges.  My wife and I have done it a couple times, especially with Ellis Paul, because you're spending $20 on a CD, which yes, is a little more than you'd spend on a new CD, but not that much more, and you're helping the artist as well.

My inclination is that RT is dipping his toe into this model to see how it goes.  As someone pointed out, he could do this type of album in his sleep.  I'm not sure of the set-up of the CD, but my feeling is it's one CD of acoustic classics, as in a second volume "best of", but is the second CD acoustic versions of rare songs (as in, fan favorites that aren't his best known works) or are they songs from the archives?  

Either way, I have to imagine that, relatively speaking, this CD isn't as expensive to produce as a band album of new material.

In the D.C./Baltimore area, he usually plays in the area twice - once in the fall at the Birchmere Music Hall in Alexandria and once in the spring at another venue.  When I saw him in the fall, the tickets were (I think) $65 (53 pounds) , plus venue fees, etc. (the Birchmere is a great venue, but they charge all these convenience fees, which is annoying as all the tickets are "will-call" so they don't have to send them through the post, just have to alphabetize them).  I have tickets to see him in April at the music hall on the Prince William County campus of George Mason University (so, not even the school's main campus in Fairfax), for I think $40.  But I could have gotten balcony tickets for $20 if I wanted.  

Anyway, my point is, at least is the DC area, he seems to try to play other, less known venues; like GMU's satellite campus, the Maryland High School for the Performing Arts (which is down the street from the Ram's Head, where he usually plays when he plays Annapolis), the Barns at Wolf Trap, 9:30 Club, etc., and the tickets are always a lot cheaper than when he plays the Birchmere, which is the usual folk venue.  I'm under the impression that he plays these places because they're not Ticketmaster venues and so the ticket prices are cheaper.  Though I guess it might be because he wants to play a variety of venues.  Or maybe the Birchmere isn't available or has a policy that you can only play a certain number of times a year (which I doubt, because I think there are people like Colin Hay who play there three or four times a year [on a separate note, I'd love to see a double bill of RT and Colin Hay]).

Anyway, based on other people I've seen do similar models, I believe this is more of a way to self-fund and have more freedom, as opposed to a money-grab.  

Yes fair enough. The RH reissues have also gone out on general release too, at normal prices.

The access pass (download) is ~ £8, which is not bad for 2 CDs. I might pledge for that.
The other options are all too expensive for me. Though I like RT, I am not that much of a fan.
Others may well be prepared to pay more, to help the artist or for bragging rights.

I'm with you, the download is the only one I feel I can justify spending on but I'll probably wait for the ordinary physical CD. Shame RT is pitching this stuff at such inflated prices. He has a right to make a living and can of course charge what he likes but he's becoming exclusive rather than inclusive with these deals which is not great for many loyal fans who have supported him over the years. I guess there will be plenty who can afford those prices, the sold out London gig shows what people are willing to pay.

Mmm. £40 to £50 tickets for the seemingly sold out Cadogan on 05/02.

One man and a guitar the touring costs can't be that high to justify these ticket prices.

Whisperin' Bob (Harris) has an inflated value idea for his promotions....cf his festival last year that sold so badly that he had to pull it...seems he doesn't learn

Taking the p1ss, sold out so market forces must rule.

Several bands crowd funding on you tube at present.

In my despair at the rest of the prices, I missed that.  Yeah, he can have £8 of mine, but that's that.  The ones that really pee me off are the big priced items...does he really believe a 90 minute guitar lesson with him is 'worth' £2k or a house concert should cost £32k+?  Maybe he's having a laugh, but those sort of 'values' on things (coupled with the ticket prices for the latest gig) make him look a total arse.  Which is the complete opposite of the view I've always held of him...

Puts things into perspective. One Cropredy , don't ask me which  one, late 90,s early 00's , RT was on solo.
We were camped on field 1 and about 10.30 I heard him starting to sound check so I nipped across to the arena. You could just walk in then, no queuing etc.
So 10.30 in the morning about 30 of us stood and listened to the sound check. What do you want to hear, he asked. So for 30 mins, we got Beeswing, Vincent etc.
I see this experience , a sound check, is now part of his crowd funding marketing , a 140 pounds.
Times change. Cropredy changed and no longer could you pop in to watch a sound check.
The 40,000 dollars for a house gig seems absolutely ridiculous, a mistake?
Sheen and I saw RT at an art gallery in Uppingham, 5(?) yrs ago.
Lovely venue , holds 60 people and we have seen there, RT, Wizz Jones, Ian Matthews, June Tabor, Ralph Mc Tell.
Tickets are £20.
So they take £1200, most of which goes to the artist. So RT provably made a grand.
So if his house concert was 4000 dollars it would be understandable!

Nearer $400 would just about work for me.
Don't forget that quoted price is excluding accommodation, travel and grub!
He, or one of his US advisors, has totally lost the thread.

Cadogan Hall has about 900 seats, so total income at £40 per seat is £36,000.  Minus costs, travel etc.

And hire costs of venue....

Incidentally, just to follow up what I said earlier up this thread, I completely support any artist maximising what they get paid.
RT has more than paid his dues for yrs, small clubs , small audiences , small record sales and then in his later yrs he is recognised as the writer and guitarist he is. So good luck to him and if it sets a precedent for all musicians slogging round the folk clubs of Britain to be paid what they are worth ........,so be it!

I am not sure if it has been mentioned anywhere on here – I may have missed it – but I think the main reason RT is coming over here next month is to receive a Lifetime Achievement Award at the UK Americana Awards (1st-2nd Feb. at St John At Hackney).  I expect that is why he is only doing one gig in the UK.

Happy New Year y’all.

I think you can still get tickets to that awardshiw with RT too

With near enough no control over who you're playing to/teaching, hell yeah. We're in a society where the executive class are paying themselves unbelievable amounts of money, and if a few musos can get a bit of it more power to them... Think of some of the people who might have the resources to pay even what you might consider a reasonable fee, and ask yourself how much you'd want to be paid to provide them personal service in whatever your profession is...

With the collapse of record sales there's probably damn little in back catalogue earnings compared to once there was, even for someone like RT, and as we should all be aware you never know when you might suddenly be unable to earn a living and yet have years of living expenses in front of you.  

Nope, sorry, whilst agreeing with your 'background' sentence ("We're in a society.."), I don't buy into any of your conclusions.  Literally or metaphorically.

This is a real  tangent but does relate to the posts above.
In the 80's I was a head of yr in a state secondary school.
A parent couldn't make parents evening but I really wanted to talk to him re his son.
I used to leave school about 6 . He worked in the city and explained that he could lose money if he had to be at the school for 6.
He could make 8.30
What I did next is not like me and I wouldn't have carried it through but something about his tone annoyed me.
So I said 8.30 was fine but because it was outside school hours I would have to charge! I quoted him his own consultancy rate.
Suddenly a 6 pm meet was no problem.
The moral?
Sometimes people being aware of your worth reinforces the quality of what you do.
However, I didn't go and see Springsteens last tour, I won't go and see Tom Petty , much as I want to. Silly money. So music has become elitist. If only the very wealthy can afford the VIP area, or even the gig it us very very sad but I still do not question RT for maximising what he earns. As I said he's paid his dues.
I ran an open mic last night and a guy came up and sang Hallelulah. If I had a pound for every time I have heard that an open mic but he was exceptional. Magical moment that silenced very full pub of a New Year's Eve crowd. His fee? I bought him a pint!

Perhaps I'm in a minority of one but even with Live at the BBC, the Free Reed box, the extra tracks on the Island records, and of course the 1975 live record, I don't think justice has been done to Richard and Linda live. If RT needs to top up his pension fund, a nicely cleaned up live record from RT and LT vintages 1972/3, 1975, 1980 and 1981/2 would be great. Surely there'd be a market for that?

Only a very small one and not one which is likely to provide much financial reward for the artists, given the state of the modern recording industry and physical product sales in general.

For what it is worth, my view on this is that provided there is a standard CD release of this at a normal price (which is all that most of us want), I really don't care about the rest of it. Nobody is under any pressure to pledge for any of it and, as Jude suggests, I suspect that some of the prices reflect a reluctance on RT's part to actually partcipate. I'm not sure in any case that it is too different in principle from the Frets and Refrains breaks or the cruises that RT has been involved with where attendees get exclusive access to the artist if they can afford the fare. They are supplements to his income which allow him to continue in a world where the rewards from recording are negligible. But the day job remains for those of us who only care about that aspect of his career.

If I had the wherewithal to even think about booking a home concert then based on these figures I'm not sure that RT wouldn't be good value at even twice the price:

http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/music/booking-fees-of-bands-revealed

Access to which seems to have doubled in price in the last year.  Which is sort of where all this started (a few months back).....

Let's just hope he plays some provincial dates with tickets at reasonable prices.

Talking about Cadogan Hall, I went there a few months ago to see an album launch by jazz trio Phronesis and the tickets were priced from £10-£25. The gig wasn't sold out, but very well attended. Just thinking about RT charging £45 for a gig in the same venue...

But based mostly on a single London gig. Who knows how much of this is down to the artist, his management, the promoters or the venue.



Which I suspect is the likely long term way forward.



With respect to Phronesis, I suspect that RT is on a whole different level of familiarity and marketability. Not sure how big Cadogan Hall is but presumably it is down to supply and demand for a one off gig.

RT's ticket prices in the USA are generally higher than they have been in the UK. Now he's seen that he can fill a sizeable venue at £40+ for a solo show, I wouldn't be surprised to see his prices rise here, hope I'm wrong.

With lower income, first thing we look at before considering any gig is the price, if that is reasonable then it has to pass "accessability", and that is a huge hurdle for my wife, so most of the time we don't even bother now. Biggest exception will be for The Transports in 4 weeks time at the Hawth - can't miss that!

As far as R & L T - I'll live with a little tape hiss ::) ::)

While I agree prices quoted are high, I recall reading some time ago that RT hasn't made the millions that the Britneys and so on have, and in recent times the decline in musician's income in general has been a concern to him.  I see this as RT looking to fund his pension pot and all power to him.  He's given us decades of brilliant music.  If I had $40k spare, I'd book him straight away

This is worth a read

http://davidbyrne.com/journal/how-will-the-wolf-survive-can-musicians-make-a-living-in-the-streaming-era