TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

I didn't enjoy him, again.

I thought he was better than the first time - his voice sounded stronger. Plus, I have fond memories of 'Clutching at Straws' - great to hear those songs live again. Most of my friends didn't think much of them, though!

I think it's interesting that Fish is still revisiting 30 year old material, whereas Marillion rarely do so. Indicative of their respective musical trajectories since the break up?

Not my type of music, but not overly unpleasant :-)

We used the opportunity to wander around the perimeter of the arena and look at the stalls, and it was a pleasant enough soundtrack to that activity.

Well I really enjoyed the Clutching at Straws stuff - brought back many memories of seeing Marillion at the Hammersmith Odeon (or whatever it’s called now) way back in 1987 when it first came out. Thought Incommunicado at the end was great too. However very disappointed he cancelled his signing session. Queued up for half an hour only to be told he had cancelled but was given no reason. Mind you there were no Fish CDs or Fish -era Marillion stuff in the CD tent so maybe he had nothing to sign :-\. Reason I queued was to get a signature for my wife who wasn’t with me this year but was with me at the Hammy Odean

Didn't bother , again. His vocals on the Sandy song were terrible.

I'm glad it wasn't just me, he sounded dreadful but I wondered if I was missing something.

He seems like a really nice guy but he cant sing!

So in the last three years we’ve had
Fish doing a marillion set
Marillion with the bloke singing who wasn’t fish and didn’t actually have any chart hits that the average attendee would know
Fish turning up again only this time joining fairport to attempt a sandy Denny song*
I look forward to a marillion tribute act
Barillion?
Parillion?
Garillion?
The festival wouldn’t be the same without them.......

It would be so much better!!



*A note to male singers attempting sandy Denny songs.
A) Sandy was a female(I know sandy Lyle the Scottish golfer was male which may add confusion)
B) Sandy Denny was imo the best female vocalist ever
C) She was a genius

Fish and simon Nicol are not female are not and will never sing like her.
It is becoming more and more tedious hearing songs a talented female should be singing being butchered by male voices.
Can you imagine Kate rusby joining fairport for who knows where the time goes or crazy man Michael etc?
Now that would be bloody brilliant

Instead we have Simon and fish.

You’d have thought for each year a top notch female singer would love the chance to join fairport each year for half an hour and do the honours.
A different top class singer each year!
I’d guess the honour bestowed may even be enough to get artists beyond the imagination to do the slot,stellar artists such as Adele etc.
Fairport are missing a trick here.
They should be inviting the best to have the chance to do the job.
It shouldn’t be about ££££ it should be an honour and a fitting tribute to a great singer and also raising the profile of fairport further.

Sort it out.
Male songs for male voices
Female songs for female voices.

Really enjoyed Fish’s set. It helps that I’ve always been a fan and knew everything word for word.
I also think his voice was better than last time he played.
It is well known that Fish has had throat problems and has even mentioned retirement because of it.
My theory as to why his rendition of “Solo” the following day was so bad (and it certainly was bad!) is that his voice was probably shot from his efforts the day before.
However, he has an obvious love for the song and I think his introduction was really heartfelt and I am therefore willing to forgive him!

You left out PJ Wright strangling a cat while doing Sandy songs.

I would have been happy to miss him. I felt quite uninspired and only just enjoyed Incommunicado. Really didn’t enjoy his Sandy tribute either.

He seems a great character and a nice bloke but time to step back I think. IMHO of course.

I'll declare an interest from the start and say I'm a fan.

Thought it was a good set and he always sounds better with a female backing singer rather than just the guys so hats off to Doris.

I would add that even though he might not be your thing he got a good reaction right up to the back of the field where we were - not everyone had been getting that...

Although by that rationale Sandy era(s) FC wouldn’t have done any Dylan covers.

Poor bloke did seem to have had an accident into his trousers. No wonder his singing was quite crappy.

I have never understood the appeal of him. Do Fairport owe him money or something as he keeps popping up at Cropredy?

Worse than the fact that he was brought on to do a Sandy tribute was that he did exactly the same song and the same fulsome (look it up...) intro as he did 2 or 3 years ago.

Please please can we have at least one year of Crops featuring absolutely nothing to do with MaBloodyRillion

I was a big fan of early (Fish-era) Marillion, and loved him last time round.  This time I didn't enjoy it quite so much - maybe because I don't know Clutching At Straws as well as Misplaced Childhood.  But I still am happy he was there, and I forgive him his singing on Solo because he really gets the song, as indeed the whole festival.

Some 'behind' the scenes explanation for non appearance to meet and greet/sign  http://fishmusic.scot/stage-theres-no-place-hide-cropredy-festival/

Poor fella regarding the blood incident, but then I read this:

"I listened to the Fairport set from there before heading up for my on stage contribution. I sang well although some devotees of Sandy Denny hated it as I wasn’t singing ‘pretty’ and leaned on the blues/ soul side."

 :-X

Jules

It seems it was blood then!

Thanks for posting that - a very interesting read (despite the distracting changing background!) and a really good insight into what it's like on the other side of the stage.

Hope he's OK wouldn't wish that on anyone. I had a similar incident 30 odd years ago. Fortunately it was just from a Farmer Giles and was in the big white telephone. worrying til it was checked out though.

Well I for one like his style of singing and really enjoyed his set.
I didn't really feel one way or the other about his rendition of 'Solo'. I just thought it was in his style.

I'm slightly biased, because over the decades I've met him a few times and he is without doubt a 'good egg'. (eg. Read what he has said in the link above.)

Every sympathy!

As have I about 30 years or so ago, and that was at a gig playing guitar and singing etc. Spent the last hour or so of a mini indoor festival/party, wandering about with my denim jacket tied around my waist.  I knew what it was as I had suffered for some years. Though following an operation things became more normal.

Driving home that night was not pleasant.

From the back half of the field it was difficult to hear Fish's song intros on Friday which was a shame.

The songs sounded great though and the band played well. They seemed to get into a groove more in the second half of the set and I particularly enjoyed "Torch Song" "Going Under" and "Tux On" of the Marillion songs, plus it was good to hear "State of Mind" and "Emperors Song" again from his solo work.

I think splitting up the "Clutching at Straws" album with solo songs rather than playing it straight through from beginning to end worked well. A lot of the audience unfamiliar with Fish or Marillion would have probably appreciated "Kayleigh" and/or "Lavender" but for for me it was a thoroughly enjoyable set.

Fish's rendition of "Solo" sounded pretty good in Fairport's Saturday set too, and his heartfelt intro was really on the button.

Therein lies the problem

No Kayleigh or lavender,two of the songs I know.
This wasn’t some sort of marillion fest....
Most of the crowd wouldn’t know any of the songs he sung(you’d have to be a marillion fan)
Fact is I was attending a festival not a marillion gig so as a performer you’d have to be half sharp not to play your biggest hits.
At a marillion concert fair enough but when you’re a guest at a festival NO !!

He wasn’t alone in this the levellers also thought the festival was a levellers gig and left out songs the audience would expect at a festival.

Like the performance or not at leat the beach boys played their hits that’s why despite being ropey it was still enjoyable.
The levellers and fish could learn from this....
Problem is there are too many acts at cropredy turning up and playing piss poor sets that don’t include the songs the paying public expect.
Fairport need to get a grip of this and bin such acts and concentrate on getting in decent artists that will put bums on seats because guess what.....?
Yes
You’ve got it
They play the songs the public who have paid to attend know and love
Madness....brilliant,all the hits,massive crowd.
Alice cooper brilliant,all the hits,massive crowd.

Fish,levellers,
Same old same old only minus the hits(I’ve heard both acts play good sets at cropredy but both were worse than their last appearances,in the levellers case musically adept but a poor show minus hits)
Field half full.

It must be blatantly obvious what’s needed to make the festival successful again but I do wonder if the powers that be are capable of delivering.
Next year will be very important imo as I can see many who attended this year not coming back unless there is a stellar line up.
In fact I’ve spoken to plenty of attendees who spent half their time in the brasenose as they had a few top notch bands.
I’d never seen so many in the brasenose who hadn’t got wristbands on and were just interested in the fringe line up.
Worrying times for the festival if not addressed imo

Make the festival successful again?  Oh please. It was a complete sell out months in advance last year and 16,000 attended this year (there's always a drop the year after an anniversary). If that's failure, then I'm a blue piece of plasticine.

Maybe "successful" in more than economic terms though? A question that seems to be asked after this years festival is whether or not it was successful musically? Ok I didn't attend so (some would say) maybe my opinion doesn't count but most years on reading the reports here and elsewhere there is more excitement about the bands, new music found, old music rediscovered etc etc - this year it has all seemed a bit dull, I am sure all who played were at least Ok but it does seem to have lacked a spark.

DW

Er, just wanted to say that Mike and I have decided that we're going next year regardless of the line up which is something we've never said before. The lineup was IMHO poor this year, but we had a fantastic time and loved the music that we heard - The Doonicans in particular made our weekend.

You don't need to know an artist's songs as long as they're entertaining (I didn't know any of Vent du Nord's music but I loved them! Same with the Afro Celts)

The field at all times was fuller than a full thing - it might not have sold out but there were plenty of people on the field having a great time with family and friends and just enjoying the special vibe you only get at Cropredy.

I'm not worried about next year  :)

So, when you say "successful", you are defining this as "acts you like"?

Yep doing the same. I’m going whatever the line-up! Love seeing new bands I don’t know and singing along to old faves. It’s the atmosphere (or vibe as the trendies say - sorry Bridge ;D ) but love it. Already provisionally booked next year’s accommodation (I’m a sickly 57 year old child so don’t do camping) so see you there  :D

I think you are deliberately misinterpreting my intention here Andy - my point was that there my be ways other than financial / ticket sales of addressing success one of which may be the way people have felt about their experience, what was on offer etc. It seems this year many people have been underwhelmed by that side of things so financially a success (we hope as we want to fest to continue) but in other ways maybe less so.

I might be wrong but I think the weather played a part. "Great" festivals are usually (predominantly) dry. Exceptions, I know, but generally. I expect quite a few people missed a few hours on friday afternoon, and perhaps gid it neck early on the saturday. Don't blame them, and that must affect whether they think of this years festivities as being value for money or not, and how positive they are when talking/writing about it.

Given dry weather I'm sure Midnight Skyracer would have been a huge hit, but as it was the people who saw them liked/loved them, but large numbers were back at their tents. Lots of space for Afro Celts as well, another band who went down well with those who stuck around.

Two of the headliners played low-key sets, for different reasons, Levellers when it was quite cold, and FC when it was quite wet. FC was always going to be a little bit "after the Lord Mayors Show" following last years brilliance, and they seemed to have decided not to really compete.

FWIW I thought the line-up was a good one. And I enjoyed it, but would have enjoyed it slightly more if the weather had remained clement.

I thoroughly enjoyed Fish’s set and knew everything he played, as did everyone around me at the front. If you are not a fan you are not going to know the songs. Last time Fish was on he did Misplaced Childhood in its entirety, so you got Kayleigh and Lavender.
This year the focus was on Clutching at Straws therefore you didn’t get them.
It reminds me of seeing Lindisfarne a few years ago. They played just about everything anyone could hope for. When they finished I heard someone say “That was rubbish, they only played two songs I knew”. Well, if you only know two songs you will never hear more than two that you know!

I too am 57 and delighted to be called a trendy!!  :D

No offence meant in the slightest - I wish I was trendy enough to be classed as ‘trendy’   ;D if that makes sense

No
I was basing success upon the amount of customers present or not as in this case.
The amount of money the festival generates must be of some interest surely.
I’m sure the organisers would like to sell more tickets rather than less.
20,000 attendees= a success(in economic terms as well as delivering a festival line up that many customers attended)
13,000 attendees= not as successful financially and not attracting as many paying customers.

I would say the reason that crowds vary by that amount can only be the line up as that is what gets people through the gate.
As an aside I’m sure stallholders would rather 20,000 attendees rather than 13,000 as I guess,although don’t know for a fact that they pay a flat rate to attend and lower turnover may result in some thinking twice before attending next year.

There will always be bands I like and ones I don’t and after eleven years i understand this.
What I don’t understand is others failure to realise that if you don’t deliver the right headline acts then the attendance is down.
I am willing to bet any forum member £20 which I will give to charity that if a top headline act like madness or Alice cooper is booked for next year the attendance would be greater than this year*

*Im using madness/Alice cooper as an example only as both have played recently.
If anyone on here truly believes that if the likes of Mark knopfler,seasick steve or the kinks headlined we would be looking at 13,000 attendees then they can pay the £20 to charity now!!

So is this Seasick  Steve bloke now on a par with the Kinks and Mark Knopfler?
Only askin'...

Not in my eyes!

Can I just say that the 20,000 capacity at the festival includes the staff, the artists, the crew, the stallholders, the security, as well as all the children, so in fact the maximum attendees is somewhere around 17,000. The festival cannot expand as far as I know due to the understanding they have with the council... ;D

Each to their own I guess but I threw him in the mix as it was a fact that the field was a lot fuller when he played the festival than it was for Brian Wilson,the levellers or fairport this year which would suggest he was a draw for the paying public.

I think there may be a touch of writing the hypothesis to fit the results there - a circular fait accomplis ( big names draw big crowds. Seasick Steve got a big crowd. Therefore Seasick Steve is a big name.)

Sorry - it's the scientist in me...

The year Seasick Steve played (2011) was also the year of Hayseed Dixie, The Coral, UB40, Badly Drawn Boy and Horslips...none of which (including Seasick Steve) could easily be described as the mega headliners I think you are arguing about to bring in the big crowds. So it is not really necessary to have the mega stars to fill the field. Also as Jude points out the 20000 often quoted is a bit of a red herring in any case.

None taken  :-*

Seasick Steve is a fictional character, invented by Steve Leach. See this Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/sep/29/seasick-steve-session-musician-ramblin-man-book) for details.

So no, he isn't on a par with the Kinks or Mark Knopfler, both of whom would draw in a reasonable crowd. In the last few years the bookers for Cropredy have gone for unexpected artists, of whom Peculiar Clark was the most unusual. Not sure she brought many extra punters in. Alice Cooper, on the other hand...

Personally, for Thursday night I'd love King Crimson to be booked in their 50th year, 2019.

For me King Crimson would rank as a top level headline act...for others I’m not so sure...but I would love it  :D

I'd crawl over hot coals to see that   :P  Others, though, would crawl over hot coals to get away from them!!

I’m not sure they’d be a big crowd puller as a headline act.
A headline act to me is a band that has had mainstream chart success and will play songs that the crowd will know and join in with.
I get that you can get the odd act that performs above itself such as seasick steve but as has been pointed out UB40 were also playing that year and I’d hazard a guess the general festival attendee would know more UB40 songs than those of king crimson due to the fact that one of the two had a number of mainstream chart successes
There is no other barometer to success than tickets purchased.
People either rate the acts highly and attend or decide it’s not for them and spend their money elsewhere.
I’m just merely pointing out that in my 11 years the biggest crowds I’ve seen(not counting the 50th anniversary which was always destined to be massive) were when Alice cooper and madness were headlining.
Imo both put on amazing shows,were proper headliners and the attendance was far bigger as a consequence.
I’m just of the opinion this is not a coincidence.

Whether they were headlining or not, I suggest that King Crimson's presence on the bill would definitely be a draw.
It's time Planty's name was on there somewhere.
Eliza Carthy and the Wayward Band would be fantastic headliners.
Pretty much any of the turns we saw at Fishguard would be welcome - Ange Hardy, Jim Causley, Granny's Attic,  Allan yn y Fan, Pilgrim's Way...
What about Tom Jones?

Sorry to double post - just realised this thread is titled "Fish" .  
Seems to have drifted somewhat off topic, my apologies.  

Fish would have been good at Fishguard...

;D

Well, one at least.  :)  I'd been thinking of attending, and she tipped me over the edge, just as Brian Wilson did this year. As for Alice Cooper, I attended in spite of him, not because of him, and I found him dull, which I accept puts me in a minority (of one, maybe  :D ).

It must be hard getting a line-up right, with us all simply refusing to like the same things.  8)  Rammstein and SLF for next years headliners then.

 

SLF? Are you referring to Stiff Little Fingers?

SLF are Stiff Little Fingers, yes.

Sorry sort of messed up my previous post re quotes etc but SLF awesome! First saw them way back in 1980. Rank up there as one of my fave punk bands (well back in Inflammable Material days at least)

Aye, and they'd sell tickets as well. The fanbase is fairly committed. They are a much bigger draw than (the wonderful) Buzzcocks, the other punks to play Croppers.

Last couple of albums were a return to form. But there could be swearing and there will be politics, probably a step too far for the organisers.

Yeah you’re probably right but thanks for the heads up on their last couple of albums. I think I’ll suss them out. Cheers   :)

Guitar and Drum (2002 I think) and No Going Back (2014 - well, nobody claimed they were prolific) are the last two. They play songs from both in their live show, but the bulk of it is made up from the first three they did. I'm always surprised, and pleased, by all the young 'uns watching them, and they all seem to know the lyrics better than I do too.  ;D  

Good songs are easy to remember  ;D Thanks again Albie

No, no, no!!!! Please...

Why, why why?

If I might say we are a bit off topic for FISH?

Last time he played he did the "two hits" Kayleigh and Lavender which were singles from the album Misplaced and this time he did the one single Incommunicado from the album Clutching at Straws so to suggest he did not play the known songs is a bit mean for an artist not known for a large singles output even in the days when he was with a record label supported band. Plus he did exactly what he said he was going to do i.e. Clutching at Straws plus some other stuff...

He was not a headline artist and whilst he might have a certain draw could in no way be presumed to bring a crowd in the same way as most of the other non headline artists on the lineup.  I would probably pawn a limb to see the likes of an Alice Cooper or Robert Plant but I will also come to a festival like Cropredy for the opportunity to see good acts having a chance to show what they can do on a big stage and then see some of them shine.  Aside from Richard Thomson last year the best acts I have seen at Cropredy have been on early afternoons on Friday or Saturday and not the headliners

The lineup might not have worked for you this year but I can see the logic - Brian Wilson - If not this time then probably never? The Levellers - well why not but the acoustic set maybe didn't do it?  I don't think the headline choices were bad in principle maybe just didn't work on the night as well as expected.  The festival certainly didn't seem noticeably down on numbers in the field compared with say 2015/16 so the lineup can't have been that far off.

A few people feel like that about Tom. Put it like this - it’s not unusual

Whatever artist, yes thats the way it is. 8) 8)

Hee hee   ;D

This is my topic. Out! Out! All of you... ;)

 ;D

Is Fish channeling Jonah in that pic?

No, Neil from the The Young Ones.

OK for me as background whilst I ambled the field.
He seemed to really ‘get’ the idea of Cropredy so I’ll forgive him most things. He put his heart into ‘Solo’, whether you liked his version or not. I enjoyed his passion for the song.