TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

I know there's already been some discussion on the BBC thread, but I guess we really ought to have a dedicated one for our hosts.

I thought their performance was the proverbial curate's egg. Not a vintage performance, but certainly not the worst I've seen either.

Good - some nice instrumentals, Rosemary's Sister (love that song, a nice surprise), Maart showing us what we've been missing (again.)

Not so good - most of the Sandy stuff (except Fotheringhay and It'll Take a Long Time), following Crazy Man Michael with Summer by the Cherwell. This to me is like Ralph McTell following Streets of London with a burst of Tickle on the Tum.

And then there was Maart. A great final performance from him. I must admit that I thought they might have had him on a bit longer, but maybe he wasn't well enough to do more? His solo during Meet on the Ledge...how he held it together I don't know, given the emotion that was swirling around. It almost seemed a pity when Chris came in. That final image of Maart standing there alone at the front of the stage, those behind and in front of him all applauding.. . Wow. Emotional scenes indeed. Thanks Maart.

This ^

A fulsome post on the Fish thread about lack of female singers doing what always used to be the 'Sandy spot'.

A run-down, probably not exhaustive:

Cathy Lesurf (last there 1997)
June Tabor (last FC collaboration 1990?)
The two Welsh sisters in the 80's (Retired to domesticity)
Julianne Regan (the best IMO but gave up performing)
Vicky Clayton (once had a full Sandy Tribute band on Cropredy stage, now relegated to playing at the Brasenose)
Kristina Donahue (in USA with her Dad to look after)
Sally Barker (recent)
Chris While (recent)
Kellie While (fairly recent)

I wasn't there but a pity no-one on that list was available.    

My all time favourite example of this was Beth Nielsen Chapman doing 'Solo' with (I think) RT on guitar. Absolutely fabulous and the complete polar opposite of the Fish debacle.

You missed Jacquie McShee who does a lovely Sandy tribute.

Metal Matty was bloody great and as a tribute to Maart, I hope it surfaces on the official YouTube channel soon.

Don't forget we got there from the truly execrable "Shuffle and Go" as well.  You couldn't make it up.  Sadly.

Listening to the set made me realise what distinctly dodgy vocals there were about. I wonder if the emotion of the occasion got to some of them.

It did seem strange to have so few female singers covering Sandy’s songs. Pity Kate Rusby didn’t stay as she has done a really nice WKWTTG. As for Fish, when he started I said to my wife that I had never heard a man sing it. Now I know why.

Overall one of the most disappointing Fairport sets I have heard, which is sad after such a good winter tour.

For the first time ever, I left before the Fairport set as I was so cold (although not as cold as Friday!) and very soggy and as I saw FC on their Wintour and many times previously I thought I wouldn’t miss too much. Sadly it sounds as if I didn’t ex crept I’m sad to miss Maart’s final appearance. I will watch when (if?) the set appears on YouTube but maybe fast forward through a lot of it

Enjoyed it more than I expected, but my problem is I don't really want to anything much from after the 80s.
The Sandy tribute started well with the film and music, but a couple of the singers didn't do her justice, especially Fish who was useless. It took me a while to recognise the song, despite having heard versions of it 3 or 4 times in the previous week.

Maart was great on Matty and when he spoke to the crowd it was nice, but sad as well. Impossible not to admire him a lot.

I can only really comment on the part of the set I saw as I had to leave the field for health reasons.
I got as far as “The Wood and the Wire” and I’m sorry to say that I found it to be one of the most lacklustre performances I have witnessed from them.
I was also rather taken aback by the reaction to Peggy’s mistake in getting Iain Matthews on stage too early. It sounded extremely tetchy to me.
Up to the point I left, I think the film of Sandy was the best thing.
From what I have heard things really picked up towards the end and I am so sorry to have missed Maart’s contribution and farewell.

Specially selected guitar, so that we can fully appreciate the shirts:

Does anyone agree that Ric's fiddle playing on Saturday evening was absolutely amazing!  I feel that he was absolutely on fire, taking control of the stage and I was compelled to watch and listen to him throughout the whole set.  🎻🤘

The sisters were Sheila and Sheryl Parker.

It was really sad what Fish did to Solo. Especially as the band played IMHO exceptionally well...
(I was really sorry for him when he got to „and I never sing out of tune“).

Also I liked the set quite well, I thought the band was quite tight.

But I rarely get to see them so every time I do it is special for me

I remember Tracey Thorn one year.

I thought the choice of the first four or five songs was bizarre. I've never been so underwhelmed. Thankfully it did pick up, but throughout it some things I felt should have been highlights were damp squibs, especially the Sandy stuff. It seemed they were just trying too hard to do everything different.
Worst bummer for me - had to go for loo break and realised they were bringing Maart on - and due to getting tangled up with some overtrousers and boots, missed most of his set.

Absolutely - at one stage it felt like I was at a particularly sombre wake with everybody quietly sobbing into their beer.

But - "we" discussed this on the way home...  is it truly that FC themselves want to continually honour her memory or do they feel obliged to do so by their perception of what the fans "want" ?

didds

Odd that Vikki Clayton was on at the fringe on the Wed and then playing an afternoon gig at Woodfest in Northants, 40 mins from Cropredy, on Saturday afternoon. If you wanted someone to sing Sandy.......

Sally Barker, when not a zebra, sings a mean Sandy as well!

True......but she may have been put off by people not liking her version of WKWTTG a few years back.

Her chum in IOTA / Trad Arrr etc Marion Fleetwood has a cracking voice and deserves a shot IMHO

Absolutely.

I was listening to the "Sandy" segment last night and only Simon and Ian Matthews were able to carry a tune while Peggy, PJ and Fish were terrible.
 

Winter Wilson did a good job on "Tomorrow", in my view.

Yes they did, sorry I forgot them. It was " It'll take a long time"

Here's one to stir up the waters a bit...

"is it truly that FC themselves want to continually honour her memory or do they feel obliged to do so by their perception of what the fans "want" ?"

While they may feel "obliged" to honour Sandy's massive contribution to Fairport ,  there's no such obligation to honour her solo work outside of Fairport, any more than they should have honoured Swarb by presenting Smiddyburn and Flittin'.

Discuss...

I thought that was the high point of the Sandy section. I didn't mind Fish's attempt at Solo either, at least it was heartfelt or appeared to be. Iain Matthews singing Rising For The Moon was unexpected, in a good way. I was expecting a 'big name' female singer though, or at least the likes of Chris or Kellie While, or maybe Thea Gilmore.

Yet her singing on Rising For The Moon from last year as heard on What We Did On Our Saturdays absolutely nailed it. So I don't think that is a fair point

Heartfelt goes a long way with me.

But not that far.

Jules

Saturday's Fairport playlist for the curious, or those who can't remember!

Ye Mariners All
Shuffle and Go
Crazy Man Michael
Summer By The Cherwell
Bankruptured
Song For Sandy (with PJ Wright)
Bushes and Briars  (with PJ Wright & Anna Ryder)
Fotheringay
Solo  (with Fish)
Rising for the Moon (with Iain Matthews)
It'll Take a Long Time  (with Kip Wilson)
Who Knows Where the Time Goes?
The Gallivant
Bring Me Back My Feathers (with Anna Ryder)
Rosemary's Sister (Simon Nicol & Chris Leslie )
Sir Patrick Spens
The Wood and the Wire
John Gaudie
Walk Awhile
Eleanor's Dream
A Surfeit of Lampreys (with Maartin Allcock)
Jewel in the Crown (with Maartin Allcock)
Matty Groves (with “Metal Matty” intro by Maartin Allcock)
Meet On The Ledge (with everyone)

You can look on that set list 2 ways. You can praise them for doing material by the latest incarnation of the band or you can say it has some very weak Fairport material on it .......and I have to agree as to why they didn't have female voices for the Sandy Tribute......

Some lovely, heartfelt stuff here, about renditions of Sandy's songs at this year's Cropredy. I can't possibly comment, not been back for near 10 years, but the memory of her voice has been a dilemma for the Curator of the closing performance, and the whole bill of fayre, for many years, IMHO.
Sandy is Dead, though. Ask Paul Rodgers to sing with Queen, people say 'he's not Freddie Mercury, though, is he ?'
Of course he's not, Freddie Mercury is Dead.
Kate Rusby has recorded WKWTTG, but didn't sing it at Wickham a week earlier. It is for the Curator to judge just who gets to sing those songs, amongst those that were closest, not for us, who were afar, IMHO. If Fish made a hash of one, I hope someone youtube'd it. It's respect. G

Quick question

What electric instrument was Chris playing during the Sandy set, there is a vid on line but i cant work out if it is a straight electric guitar of maybe a return for the batocaster?

DW

On Song For Sandy Peggy was playing electric and Chris was on bass.

Just listening to the set, downloaded from BBC Radio Oxford. "Jewel In The Crown" is currently playing. I am getting moist-eyed again.

Aha - is there no end to his talents.

DW

Just reached "Metal Matty" - bloody great!

I recall Roger Taylor saying at the time: "He doesn't have to be Freddie, because he IS Paul Rodgers." You could say the same about Fish and Sandy Denny. He did it his way, whatever the crowd may have wanted.

Interesting thread.
We are back in to the......'
Do audiences go to a fest to hear a band do their 'popular' songs in the way they were done on the album?
I think at Cropredy they do. Not a place for experimentation.

I suppose that’s partly the reason why the Levellers have been getting some abuse although the style they adopted for Friday was the style of their last album ‘We the Collective’ so can that be called experimentation?

I'm not sure that is entirely the case. They just don't want songs maimed and mangled, which is what many people felt Fish did to Solo.

Metal Matty is a good example of a complete reworking of a song which has been embraced by much of the audience so it is not a perfect science.

...or an Eagles concert.  :)

Completely take your point Al but Metal Matty has been around for almost 30 years now.......people know Matty gets done differently. I am talking of response to the Levellers set for example, Sally Barker changing the emphasis on Wkkwttg to a considerable negative reaction.
We could cite Dylan of course...this is Blowing in the wind....but I have changed the words and the tune!7 ;D

Not just Cropredy - for instance I love James but when I go to see them I know it’s 50/50 that they’ll play sit down and if they do they may tweak it.  They don’t go for the nostalgia fest yet they are being slated for not playing it at a festival last weekend.  

I never quite understood this. If one listens to live recordings, Sandy rarely sang it the same way twice and certainly did not preserve the Fairport arrangement (which was not in any case the original arrangement) in live performance.

I ralose that this is a hypocritical position for me to take as I was one of those who hated what Fish did to Solo.  ;)

Well, I enjoyed most of the set.  Maybe I'm not as picky as some.  The only songs I didn't like were Song for Sandy and Bushes and Briars, which suffered from weak vocals in a way which Fish's Solo didn't.  Maybe he didn't always sing in tune, but he had more feeling than either of the others.*

Maart's part was very moving, as so many have said.


*And for those who complain about that given the line 'I never sing out of tune', just remember the context, which is obviously ironic:
I've always lived in a mansion
On the other side of the moon
I've always kept a unicorn
And I never sing out of tune

As a distant listnener via Radio Oxford

Great start with Ye Mariners All,

Then increasingly downhill until Gallivant

With a fabulous final section Spens onwards.

All in all I was glad to hear it but not sure I would have stayed if I was in the field.

DW

Or indeed realise. I must learn to proof read before hitting Post.

First videos now posted on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMzMcRsGBw4h6wIR8WYLW_g/videos.

Just watched Solo and am happy to say that my initial view was not wrong.  Fish made a good job of it.  No it wasn't Sandy, nor did he sound like her, but it was a perfectly good rendition, and didn't deserve the opprobrium that has been heaped upon it.

Now for Meet on the Ledge - hanky at the ready!

So glad to be able to see these... just watched Matty and Meet...

So incredibly special...

Well said Will. New interpretations keeps music alive, otherwise we might just as well sit in a field listening to a large ghetto blaster.

I think that's the point Al. People hear a recording and think that's the definitive version and expect to hear that churned out/ performed at a festival. You and I know Sandy sang it differently, there are other recordings of her singing it differently but the Fairport version n is the one people expect.
It is an obvious truth that people go to fests for many reasons ,people haven't researched the line up before they go.
Perhaps people don't go to many gigs.
So you go and see a band in a field and hey want to hear their hits done as they were 20 years ago.

But surely it is permissible to dislike the version being performed? I love to hear different versions of songs during live performance (the various Matty Groves's are are a prime example of this.) My feeling about Sally Barker's version of WKWTTG was not that she shouldn't have done it, but that I didn't think it was very good.

A major part of the problem with that particular performance, was that she invited the audience to sing along, and then sang a different tune to the version everybody knew.

She'd been on Strictly X-factor on The Beach Out of Here or whatever it was called (The Voice) and her vocal style could be politely described as having a modern styling. I like Sally's work but I'm not sure it fitted the bill that night.

She stormed it with Rising for the Moon last year...

I agree. The song completely suits her voice.

Slightly off topic but have a listen to Sally singing Pete Morton's song...Another Train.
A song that got me through bad times many, many years ago. Still makes me tear up!

I'm sure I shouldn't do this...but here you go!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uEocCZALGWg