Guitarist's Forum

[david stevenson]

No, just pour it down your throat instead. 

It looks really nice, but I must keep away from guitars on EBay after my last accident  I showed the picture to my wife, but she wasn't impressed.

Hope the auction goes well Al.

Paul

Sorry Paul, couldn't let the all too obvious link pass.  I reckon you'd been doing more than sniffing single malt when you bought the dreaded twoheaded monster!!

David

[Henrik]

Apparantly they smell wonderfull. You can get drunk just playing the guitar.

Paul

Paul's absolutely correct, the smell through the soundhole is especially wonderful. I've wondered if it fades with time and thought that maybe if it did then it could be refreshed by maybe putting some of your finest malts in one of those plant sprays and spraying it inside 

*ROFL*  I can just imagine you sitting there sniffing your lovely guitar, Al - hehehe

Well, I just hope you stay at that level and don't venture into more advanced experiments
with such things as glue and lighter liquid (gas ?), once you sell your guitar  ... 

Henrik

[Al]

I've been looking at Lowden O25 and even 032, also Martin 0018 and 0028. As objectively as you can please, how does the Fylde compare?

David

Hi David,

compared to the guitars you mention I would put this one in a different category soundwise.  The Martins and Lowdens are much more versatile I would say, especially for gigging. The Fylde is a very laid back little guitar, almost on the verge of being classical in its refinement, even in its standard cedar/mahogany woods. I don't know what you play but if like me you like to really dig in sometimes you will find it doesn't like it as much as a rosewood bodied Martin, like an 000-28. It doesn't like being strummed, its very sweet and resonant, but with a little bit of midrange honk that makes it nice for blues and raggy things like Blind Blake etc. It doesn't suit things for which you would desire lots of bite and attack.

I am not a big fan of Lowdens generally to be honest, although I was very smitten by an S-23 I played once and very nearly bought it. I think a bog standard Martin 000-28 is the best all round guitar in my opinion, especially with the vintage style neck and bracing on the Eric Clapton model. It just sounds great with everything, shame about the Eric Clapton signature but everything else about it is perfect and its the only 000 style Martin make ( except for the new 000-42 ) with the wider vintage style 'V' profiled neck and the shorter 24.9" scale.  I bought an OM-28V ( basically the same guitar but with a 25.4 scale neck )  rather than buy a guitar with Eric's name on it but in the end I had to admit that the 000-28EC models I had played just sounded better and suited my hands better so swapped it.

[david stevenson]

Al

Many thanks.  I really appreciate your honesty.  I'm off to the states on a business trip shortly and am working out the most cost-effective and tax efficient way of bringing back a Martin, so I'll probably go down that route.  Interestingly enough, a friend of mine has an EC 00028 but doesn't like it - prefers his O25 Lowden!  Won't buy it from him, however, it's a lefty!

Best of luck with the auction.  If we ever get to meet I promise to bring along an unopened single malt from my ludicrously lareg collection - I know you would appreciate it.

Best Wishes

David

[Al]

If we ever get to meet I promise to bring along an unopened single malt from my ludicrously lareg collection

What yer doing tonight 

re the bringing guitars back from the States, I have noticed a couple of individuals buying on Ebay buying guitars from the States and then selling them in the UK. Whats especially interesting is that according to my figures, given what they've paid in the States, and then adding on Shipping, Duty, Vat and Ebay costs they would appear to be making very little profit given the risk of their initial outlay and even, in some cases, making a loss. I can only assume they are getting them into the UK without paying the full whack that I calculate -but how 

[Anna]

Getting the sender to send it as a "gift" is one dodge I've heard.  Doesn't always work but it's worth a shot...

[Al]

Would anyone happen to have a tab or chord scheme of Red & Gold btw. ?
How on Earth could they forget that one in SFSS2 ?!?!?!

Cheers
Henrik

I'll post the chords tonight, unless someone beats me to it 

[Henrik]

Would anyone happen to have a tab or chord scheme of Red & Gold btw. ?
How on Earth could they forget that one in SFSS2 ?!?!?!

Cheers
Henrik

I'll post the chords tonight, unless someone beats me to it 

Ok, ta(k)  -  hmmm, why would anyone beat you into doing that, Al ?   

You really are far too nice a guy for that  - surely.


Think I have parts of it right, but looking for the right chords / versions of chords.

Any suggestions as to what the man himself actually plays ? Tuning ?  ( Key D ? , dropped D even ? )
( I guess it's not one of his more advanced things technically, but would still love to pin it down exactly  )

Has Ralph btw. ever recorded this song himself, apart from that brilliant live version ?  ( and if not - WHYYY ?!?!? )


Cheers
Henrik

[Al]

Think I have parts of it right, but looking for the right chords / versions of chords.

Any suggestions as to what the man himself actually plays ? Tuning ? ( Key D ? , dropped D even ? )
( I guess it's not one of his more advanced things technically, but would still love to pin it down exactly )

I don't play it very often, I play it with 6th string down to D ( dropped D ),not exactly as Ralph plays it most likely because although I love the song I've never felt grabbed by the guitar part enough to sit down and really try to pull it apart. I agree, that live version is superb, one of my faves in fact 

I got the Fairport Convention songbook recently ( not sure why really cos generally I hate Fairport Convention intensely, sorry, just my opinion    ) but it has the chords to Red And Gold in it and I was pleased to see that I was playing it as they had it - its always nice to get confirmation my ears are still working  The book has some interesting bits in it - I just like to try different things 

Right now I am playing around with North American Indian music ... now where did I leave my headdress 

[Henrik]

Think I have parts of it right, but looking for the right chords / versions of chords.

Any suggestions as to what the man himself actually plays ? Tuning ? ( Key D ? , dropped D even ? )
( I guess it's not one of his more advanced things technically, but would still love to pin it down exactly  )

I don't play it very often, I play it with 6th string down to D ( dropped D ),not exactly as Ralph plays it most likely because although I love the song I've never felt grabbed by the guitar part enough to sit down and really try to pull it apart. I agree, that live version is superb, one of my faves in fact 

I got the Fairport Convention songbook recently ( not sure why really cos generally I hate Fairport Convention intensely, sorry, just my opinion    ) but it has the chords to Red And Gold in it and I was pleased to see that I was playing it as they had it - its always nice to get confirmation my ears are still working  The book has some interesting bits in it - I just like to try different things 

Right now I am playing around with North American Indian music ... now where did I leave my headdress 

Soon you will probably be using a "bow" with your guitar, Al   Sounds very avantgarde to me ...

I am glad to learn that I have been moving in the right direction at least  ....
Yes, it is always very nice to get confirmation that "you" ( ie. we !) ) are not complete idiot(s).

R&G is such a wonderful song and tune - one of those that really get stuck in your brains, right ?
Constantly asking to be hummed or whistled out loud  .....

Btw. I really enjoy your version of "Sand in Your Shoes", that you sent me a while back -
Have been listening to it many times now - really great playing and singing !
[ Guess I shouldn't be telling you this - you will probably soon be asking me for a fee for each "performance"  ) ]

Any other Ralph songs you would like to "show off" ?    (  I  have heard your KTK btw. )

Not going to make any comments on your view FC here , as I would still like to be
able to frequent the chat room, you see ....
( Seems to be very FC-oriented turf in there  - been asked to come over for Cropredy festival several times ... )

Henrik

[Al]

Henrik,
thanks for your very nice comments about my "Sand In Your Shoes" , you're very kind   
 
I have just embarked on recording some of my faves by various folk and I am intending to include a couple of Ralph's songs, msot definitely "Zig Zag Line" and probably "Peppers And Tomatoes". I've got 14 to do, so far I've done Loudon Wainwright's "The Swimming Song" and "United States Of Mind" by Alan Hull - as well burning cds for friends etc I intend to stick them on my website for download    No commercial purpose behind it - as Ralph has said on this forum himself, creating music is its own reward 

[david stevenson]

I don't play it very often, I play it with 6th string down to D ( dropped D ),not exactly as Ralph plays it most likely because although I love the song I've never felt grabbed by the guitar part enough to sit down and really try to pull it apart. I agree, that live version is superb, one of my faves in fact 

I got the Fairport Convention songbook recently ( not sure why really cos generally I hate Fairport Convention intensely, sorry, just my opinion    ) but it has the chords to Red And Gold in it and I was pleased to see that I was playing it as they had it - its always nice to get confirmation my ears are still working  The book has some interesting bits in it - I just like to try different things 

Right now I am playing around with North American Indian music ... now where did I leave my headdress 

Hello Chaps

I think I play it much the same way, Al.  Tune 6th to D then its D using the 5th fret on the first, Bm the same, then it's the familiar Ralph bass runs up and down from D through G and back up again with a few A's thrown in.  One of the easier Ralph songs and one that reminded me that when you're writing a narrative song to keep the music straightforward so that the thread of your story achieves its impact without distraction.  Ralph is a master of this.

David

[david stevenson]

Right now I am playing around with North American Indian music ... now where did I leave my headdress 

So you need a headdress when you're playing your axe?

[Al]

Right now I am playing around with North American Indian music ... now where did I leave my headdress 

So you need a headdress when you're playing your axe?

When my book of Aboriginal tunes arrives I need to get a Didgeridoo, I like to get in character   

[Al]

Hi Henrik,

here's "Red And Gold"       As David so rightly says, it is quite simple really, and again as David says, it does not detract from the narrative of the song because of it. The only bits to needed to nail it really are the much familiar descending bass run form D down to G and some of the melodies around the D chord, all from the standard Ralph McTell toolbox, as it were     The melody and narrative are the true stars rather than the guitar part.

I can transcribe the instrumental bit Ralph plays in tab but I think its fairly easy to work out, you need to start the melody with an A on the fifth fret of the first string on the first D chord, same as used in "Factory Girl", and sort of walk it down with the melody and bass - if you want it I will tab it 

Allan



[Chorus]

D       F#m      Em    A

Red and Gold are royal colours

D A/C#  Bm  D/A     G         A

peasant colours are green and brown


D/F#            G
green is the corn

D                           Bm                   Bm/A

in the brown earth when its growing


G       D             A              D
red and gold when the harvest is cut down



[Verse]


        D           Em

Through Cropredy in Oxfordshire


    G                  A

The Cherwell takes its course


D                    G               A
and the willows weep into its waters clear


D/F#               G
my name it is Will Timms


        A               D
and its here that I was born


    G                  A                D
and raised in faith my king and god to fear ..../..../...




[other bit !]


A                                 D

And the dreams I had were red and gold


        G      D               Asus4    A

and the little stream became a flood


     D/F#      G        D             Bm      Bm/A
from all my brothers killing one another


G              D               A               D
till walking I realised it was all my own dear blood



[the instrumental bit is based around the chorus...]

D - F#m -  Em -  A

D - A/# - Bm - D/A - G - A

D/F# - G - D - Bm

G - D - A - D

[Henrik]

Ahh, that's so great, Al  -  Man(g)e tak / Many thanks   

A truely great job by you -  I really must go practicing right away.
( My neighgbours will probably wonder and become p..... off at me (just after 1 AM here  ) ,  -
there are ignorant people and "art haters" everywhere these days it seems    )

Cheers
Henrik

[Henrik]

Hi Henrik,

here's "Red And Gold"       As David so rightly says, it is quite simple really, and again as David says, it does not detract from the narrative of the song because of it. The only bits to needed to nail it really are the much familiar descending bass run form D down to G and some of the melodies around the D chord, all from the standard Ralph McTell toolbox, as it were     The melody and narrative are the true stars rather than the guitar part.

I can transcribe the instrumental bit Ralph plays in tab but I think its fairly easy to work out, you need to start the melody with an A on the fifth fret of the first string on the first D chord, same as used in "Factory Girl", and sort of walk it down with the melody and bass - if you want it I will tab it 

Allan

Yes, you are so right - amazing narrative along with a great tune - gets me every time I hear it 

Well, I think I have found out  - or shall ?  - most of it by now.  In some cases, it seems you can
"skip" some of the chords when playing the instrumental part ( or maybe it's just slightly different from the song parts ? ).
At least it does feel very natural keeping it simpler and even sounds pretty good so far.

But in case you don't have anything more important to do, I shall not complaint if you tab it.
Probably many others will be interested in this true and somewhat "overlooked" gem too.
( Have you started practicing it yet, Lady May ? ) 

Henrik

[david stevenson]

One of my new team in the US has tentatively got me a gig in Dallas next weekend.  It'll either be a borrowed guitar or a new Martin 00028 - thanks Al.  Don't think I'll be playing Red and Gold cos the locals will get confused if I do an English Civil War song...

I'll keep you posted on the trip - Detroit and Dallas should provide the contrast for at least one new song!

David

[MAJ]

Don't forget to get someone to take a photo of you in action David....

[david stevenson]

Don't forget to get someone to take a photo of you in action David....

Thanks Maj, I will, but because it's Texas I'll duck when I see a flash, just in case!

David