Guitarist's Forum

[MAJ]

needed to complete collection

anyone out there have a spare copy or know where i  might find one of these other than ebay

Ralph McTell - 1972 -tab book 'YWM' pic on cover - songs from 8FAS, SS, MSOYW and YWMBMH.

jb

No.  Ebay is the only place I have seen it in the last few years.  So keep a watch there.

[Henrik]

My preferred "cheat" on Factory Girl is to tune down a tone ( a la Yesterday) and then capo at 2 (or as necessary to match the recorded key) to reduce the stretch.

If i feel bad about this,  then I go on to do the "inverted thumb" rigmarole on Please Don't Haunt Me and I feel virtuous again. Have you ever seen anyone but Ralph attempt this on stage ? I first saw him do it at the Purcell Rooms for what became the Travelling Man cd.

Baggy

Yes me, probably 

The inverted thumb ?!??!  

Ahmmm, would anyone care to explain that one ?


Henrik -  Now even more puzzled than Maj & Ralph put together ....  

[Naomi]

When Ralph plays this on stage, you can see that he uses his left thumb, as well as all four fingers on the frets on the front of the neck - I can't explain any better than that - I'll leave it to a guitarist to give you a more technical explaination! 


When we saw him perform this song a couple of years ago, he explained about this difficult manouver in some detail - in a very self-deprecating manner, naturally! Apparently he used to think it was 'flash' and couldn't work out why it was necessary - until he wrote 'You Haunt Me Babe'  !

Now over to you guitarists...


Naomi

[Henrik]

When Ralph plays this on stage, you can see that he uses his left thumb, as well as all four fingers on the frets on the front of the neck - I can't explain any better than that - I'll leave it to a guitarist to give you a more technical explaination! 


When we saw him perform this song a couple of years ago, he explained about this difficult manouver in some detail - in a very self-deprecating manner, naturally! Apparently he used to think it was 'flash' and couldn't work out why it was necessary - until he wrote 'You Haunt Me Babe'  !

Now over to you guitarists...


Naomi

Ah, thank you, Naomi.

I do know that one and use it myself - it was the confusing description that fooled me.
It also works very well in Hands of Joseph in the long descending baseline - a B on the A-string
+ sometimes an F# on the E string ( when not in dropped-D, an E when in dropped D ).

It took me almost forver to get that one just "right" and smooth.
So now I "only" need to figure out the very fast base licks - with slides, pulls and hammers - in the Travelling Man version.
I've been listening and wondering a lot but I still can't figure it out.
Does anyone here have any ideas on how to solve this complete mystery ? 
 

Henrik 

[John Beresford]

...i must have a gap in my collection i don't have the book you mention, whats it called and where can i get it?

Here

Good luck 

[bigalwhittle]

Of course every guitarist, with an ounce of creativity in his or her soul, plays it different from the original.

Come to that, Ralph doesn't sound much like Blind Boy Fuller.  He has that English thing that Lonnie Donnegan added to Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie songs - that slightly amphetamine feel.  I think as English people we respond to it quite naturally. 

To me, Ralph sounds better than Blind Boy Fuller.

[jb]

john b

thanks for heads up re the songbook on ebay. i was winning with 30 secs to got  pipped at the post
i'll lkeep looking

jb

[rizraklaru]

The "inverted thumb" thing is not what you seem to think, (I think.)
I saw him explain and then perform "Don't Haunt Me" once.
The point was that he used his left thumb from the front of the guitar, i.e. not curling it around the neck, but using the side of his thumb. This means that he wasn't actually gripping the guitar at all.
It's hard to explain because, when I got home from that gig, I tried it myself, and though I played it exactly as Ralph had just done, I still found it easier to stretch my thumb round from the back.

Apologies if I've confused everyone.

[rizraklaru]

I have to correct myself having just messed about with it for a while.
It's  actually easier (I find) to use your little finger (not your thumb at all,) instead of the inverted thumb that Ralph prefers.

[Baggy]

I'm afraid I started the debate with my loose use of language about the "inverted thumb rigmarole" on "Please Don't Haunt Me"....it was late !

I did mean that Ralph swings his thumb (as demonstrated at the Purcell Room) from the standard position behind the neck of the guitar underneath the neck of the guitar, and uses it to fret the third fret bass note with his thumb from the front of the guitar while playing the treble notes at the 7th/8th fret (I'm working from memory ,  so maybe it is even higher ??).

This bizarre fingerwork does enable a lower bass run to be completed  - he's already using a dropped D bass string - and i suspect any other way of completing this would need wrist surgery.  

It does work - the key is to use the other fingers as the "anchor" at the higher frets , thereby supporting the thumb as it swings through - hence "inverting" the normal role and position of the thumb.

Having mastered this , the real problem is that I haven't found another song to use it on. Any suggestions ??  

[rizraklaru]

I'm afraid I started the debate with my loose use of language about the "inverted thumb rigmarole" on "Please Don't Haunt Me"....it was late !

I did mean that Ralph swings his thumb (as demonstrated at the Purcell Room) from the standard position behind the neck of the guitar underneath the neck of the guitar, and uses it to fret the third fret bass note with his thumb from the front of the guitar while playing the treble notes at the 7th/8th fret

You're exactly right.
Kindly disregard my last post.
 

[Henrik]

I'm afraid I started the debate with my loose use of language about the "inverted thumb rigmarole" on "Please Don't Haunt Me"....it was late !

I did mean that Ralph swings his thumb (as demonstrated at the Purcell Room) from the standard position behind the neck of the guitar underneath the neck of the guitar, and uses it to fret the third fret bass note with his thumb from the front of the guitar while playing the treble notes at the 7th/8th fret (I'm working from memory ,  so maybe it is even higher ??).

This bizarre fingerwork does enable a lower bass run to be completed  - he's already using a dropped D bass string - and i suspect any other way of completing this would need wrist surgery.  

It does work - the key is to use the other fingers as the "anchor" at the higher frets , thereby supporting the thumb as it swings through - hence "inverting" the normal role and position of the thumb.

Having mastered this , the real problem is that I haven't found another song to use it on. Any suggestions ??  

Ah, I seeeee !!!!! - Thank you both for setting me straight on this one - I have never seen him perform
this song you see, so it all sounded very confusing to me.

And here I was thinking that I had been clever working out "my" little tircks and cheats 
What an amzing style to come up with - so did Ralph invent this one himself or was it one
of his many heroes ?

I once saw Don McLean doing what he called "overhand guitar" - .ie grabbing the fret board
from above ! - thumb side of his hand facing himself. As I recall this worked excellently and
sounded great too. Guess it must almost be like starting all over to learn how to play like that.

Another guy who does this peculiar style of playing is the blind rock guitarist Jeff Healy.
Sounds brilliant when he does it -  check out his version of "While My Guitar Gently Wheeps" for instance.
Hmmm, what is is about blind guys and guitars anyway ? 


Henrik

PS. Did any of you people by any chance figure out the very fast base licks in Hands of Joseph ?  ( Travelling Man version )
If so, I would very much like a few hints, as I am getting "really" close now - apart from those 


Wa

[Curt]

Some classical guitarists use this technique to play cello pieces (apparently cello players have always done it  )

[david stevenson]

I don't think it's quite the same thing, but Richie Havens always used his thumb from the top of the guitar to play barre chords when he was in open tuning.  He had a VERY big thumb!

[jb]

hi everyone
a little while ago i asked if anyone out there could help me with the tab for the mermaid and the seagull in particular the intro.
I've been a bit busy with other stuff lately and haven't played a great deal but would i am going on holiday to cornwall soon and thought this would be a good time to learn this tune

help please

jb

[Ferret Lady]

Hello jb
Have never played it myself but have the music in one of my books so will try and help -here goes.
First ,tune bass E down to D
The chords sound awful but all are just a couple of fingers!
Its in 4/4 time
First two bars(ie listening....talk) is Eb  Eb6 Eb
next two (smoke...ceiling)  Eb6 Eb Ebsus2
then(words ....by) same as first 2 bars
then (maybe.....feeling)   Eb6 Ebsus2 Eb

Get back to me if you need help with those chords -Iwill attempt a description of the chord diagrams. They will be much easier to play than describe so I'm hoping you're OK with it or you won't get them before your holiday!!


Next bit...
Looking ...glass is Fm(add9)/C bass -  ie A string at fret2 Dstring at fret4
a quick Bb in between glass and I
Fm for I  noticed  Fm6 on clock Fm7 on ten
minutes is a' one finger job' top E string at fret5 and open A string
fast is as before but E string at fret4

Then on beer itsEb(D shape but up a fret)
gone Ebsus2/Db bass ie take finger off top E string to leave it open and add a Db onA string(fret3)
money Ab6/C bass spent Ab6/Cbbass
think Eb about Ebsus2 time same as before with Db bass
a quickAb6/Cbass in betweentime and that
that Bb  went Eb.

And that's it - or at least all your getting now as I think I've burnt the spaghetti!!!
Hope this helps

[Ferret Lady]

Have just had a go at playing Mermaid and noticed one vital thing - put capo on first fret -now all those flats are easy! The first few ie the verse are D shapes up in the 5th fret - if you know Hands of Joseph Sweet Dreams of Heaven it's all similar to the start of that.
It really is much easier than it looks so just ask if you need more help with the chords. Have fun!

[jb]

thanks ferret lady
I'll have a go as per your instructions,
chord shapes and tab would be great though if available.

jb

[lucienne]

hello,
has anyone got some easy chords for Nightmares on Right Side Up?
Thanks,
Lucienne.

[MAJ]

hello,
has anyone got some easy chords for Nightmares on Right Side Up?
Thanks,
Lucienne.

Nope, sorry.  I've looked in all the books I have in case I'd missed it but can't help.  Any other guitarists out there at the moment?  Al?  Ragtime? Leighton?

Maj on the McMarie Celeste