Guitarist's Forum

[MAJ]

Here you go, here's one.  Well, two actually.  This first book plus the 'Streets' book which covers the LPs Not Till Tomorrow, Streets and Easy.

Starting price is really low - £3.07 - for the two - so get bidding!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1452&item=3752093337&rd=1

[Al]

Its been added to my watch list right now  Actually, just checked out the track listing, it features some real rarities ... one especially caught my eye .."Daddy's Horse " 

[MAJ]

Neigh!! Must be a mistake! That is definitely going in the McSlips section of the birthday book, together with that other rarity in this particular copy of the song book - Mrs Adam's Angels. 

And Ralph was obviously the ghost writer for item no. 12 from the 'Streets' book...

Al and Madge
Private Investigators

[ragtime]

"Daddy's Horse": Is that the one that got stolen when Ralph was a cowboy?

Chris

[Geoff]

"Daddy's Horse": Is that the one that got stolen when Ralph was a cowboy?

Chris

That's the one!
 "hoofbeats, in the hall and on the stairs"

[Al]

re advice from ikr about the "Michael, where are you" bit in Michael In The Garden......

"That's an Edim7th chord [or strictly Em6th dim5th] which is basically the same as you move it up the fretboard in minor 3rds / every 3 frets"

finally got round to trying it out tonight - its just right, thanks a bunch  Can't sing it though but its nice to have one more mystery solved  Just don't know why it hadn't occurred to me thats what it was 

[Gibson]

Having read the discussion on Michael in the Garden, it was all attention on Saturday when he started to play it.  As far as I can tell, the dropped D is correct, the chords are correct and there's no need for tab - he played it with pick, some fancy right hand damping and just playing bass notes for the 'Michael sees all behind the high walls' bit.

[ragtime]

Having read the discussion on Michael in the Garden, it was all attention on Saturday when he started to play it ...  some fancy right hand damping and just playing bass notes for the 'Michael sees all behind the high walls' bit.

Glad to hear he's playing it live again. He always does it with such power and feeling, even more so than the younger recorded version.

The "Michael sees all behind the high walls ... " section just uses E and D chords alternating, so the damped bass notes are easily achieved by playing with fingers across the second fret (bottom 3 strings - making E,B,E) and then the same strings open (D,A,D). It is best to actually play the whole chords at the same time in case of stray picking.

And while I think of it, I tend to play the opening A chord in a sort of second inversion (B string 5th fret, G string 6th fret, D string 7th fret, with the top E string open). I hit the bass A string then the full chord and then play the suspended 4th by putting the little finger on the G string 7th fret.

Also the G chord which follows sound right if played as a G6 (ie. play with a finger on the B string 3rd fret but leave the top string as an open E). You can even play the next D chord as a second inversion too (E string 5th fret, B string 7th fret, G string 7th fret) before dropping back to the standard position during the "wrong, wrong, wrong with his mind"  bit. It makes for a bit of variety in the sound.

I hope this makes sense to someone.

Chris

[Al]

Listening to Ralph the other night on Mike Harding, and having recently listened to "Ralph, Albert and Sydney" again. I can't help but think that Ralph's live guitar sounds awful 

Not that I am saying that because its a Yamaha and am all snobbish cos its not a Gibson or a Martin or something, but compare the lovely warm sound of a mic'd acoustic and the awful noise still produced by peizo pickups etc and to my ears there's no comparison. It just doesn't sound anything like an acoustic guitar actually sounds like. It really bugs me when sitting through his shows, fantastic though they are otherwise  His albums are mostly recorded beautifully so his live sound is, presumably, a triumph of convenience over art, ie it irons lots of technical wrinkles that otherwise occur eg feedback, electrical interference etc.

As you can tell I feel strongly about this, am I the only one ?  I've not noticed anybody mentioning it ?? I can't help but wonder why he doesn't at least mix in a bit of mic as well so give the sound some dynamic as a lot of other people do. I find it slightly curioius that someone who is so enamoured of a wonderful old Gibson because of its deep, warm bassy sound should be content with such a lightweight live sound ?

I'm loathe to criticise my hero but just as I suffer though Bob Dylan shows thinking "why don't one of the band tell him that he can't play a guitar solo for toffee", I sit there through Ralph's shows thinking "surely someone has told him by now that this sound is terrible".

What does eveyrone else think ? Am I perhaps to be castigated forever now ?  Has anyone here ever talked to him about it ?

[Leighton]

.........just as I suffer through Bob Dylan shows thinking "why don't one of the band tell him that he can't play a guitar solo for toffee", ................

Al,
I'm sorry I couldn't let this comment go without saying something. It's been a few years since I saw "His Bobness", and although I am not a great lover of some of his later work, I have approx 40 No. early LP's (now CD's) of just him and his guitar at various concerts/performances/bootlegs, and I can say without even taking a breath, that Bob's Solo guitar playing is awesome. Some of his early finger-picking stuff is fantastic.

"Moonshine Blues" and "Cocaine" on the Gaslight Tapes is raw, and although recorded live in New York (been there), it is great guitar playing.

"Baby let me follow you down" on The Witmark Years - is Magic.

As I say, I cannot agree or disagree with your comments with regards to "recent" concerts, but I had to say something.

I need to have a think about the "Ralph comment" for a while.......................but I can see where you are coming from. I was there in Liverpool at the Mike Harding Show.

Leighton

[MAJ]

No, Al, you are not alone.  I don't particularly like the sound of the Yamaha either.  Although I have to say I preferred the sound of the black one he used to play about 10 years ago.  The sound of the Gibson J45 in the early 70s was one of the things that made me such a huge fan of Ralph and his playing. 

I don't like the harsh edge the current Yamaha gives to his work.  But not being too technically minded I don't know how much is guitar and how much is amplification.  I would certainly like to hear Ralph play it without any pick-up at all. 

I heard Ralph the other evening in the Liverpool broadcast and still think his style is stunning but I would like to hear items like That'll Do Babe in the raw, as it were.

Oh, and no, I have never talked to him about it.....yet...!

[Gibson]

How sad is this?  In 1991-ish after seeing the black Yamaha APX7 I went out and bought one and thought the sound was great whether it was played through an amplifier or not.  A couple of years ago when finances and opportunity coincided I bought a Gibson (CL40A for anyone who's interested) because Ralph used to play a Gibson (good enough for him, good enough for me).  Now, which one is best?  If you want to strum songs such as Peppers and Tomatoes, or want effects such as Slipshod Taproom Dance, then played through a decent amp the Yamaha is just as good as the Gibson.  If you want to fingerpick songs like First Song or even Streets of London in a way similar to Ralph, Albert and Sydney (Al – by coincidence I listened to this CD last night and I know exactly where you're coming from), then you can't beat the Gibson.

I suspect the Yamaha keeps making an appearance because he gets one for free (might even have some sort of sponsorship deal) but I don't know for sure.  As for the Gibson, we know the old one was retired although I was never quite sure why, and I'm sure he's bought another one.  If you look at the new 'official' site (if we're allowed to mention it) I think the new Gibson makes an appearance on the home page.  I'd certainly like to hear it for real.

In the end I think it's all down to personal preference, but I'd certainly like to hear the 70's Gibson sound live again.
 

[Al]

Its quite sad really isn't it that technological 'development' means we now tend to hear a tinnier less wholesome verison of what we started out loving so much    Glad I am not the only one who misses the days of deep warm tones even if it did mean they were accompanied by a miscellany of hums, buzzes and passing taxis    I was quite interested that both Maj and Gibson mentioned the 'black' Yamaha, because I always seemed to think that sounded better too. It even sounds pretty good on the Town Hall concert video, nothing like his mic'd Gibson but quite a pleasant sound in its own right whereas I think I have decided that for me the issue with the 'other' one is ithat ts 'brash'.

Having said all this I know it doesn't dampen our enthusiasm for seeing Ralph etc but its often in my mind, at the back somewhere, when I am awatching him.

As far as I know the reason Ralph ended up with Yamaha was as a result of Bert Jansch opening up a guitar shop in London that, apparently, was stocked by Yamaha but which sold very little and went bump. But sometime during this period Bert had become a Yamaha user and was sent two Yamaha's and he gave one to Ralph - I might have this wrong but I recall reading something like this more than once, in fact I do know I have seen Bert say something along these lines himself in a mag somewhere not too long ago.

Re Leighton's comments on my comments about Dylan I am was referring solely to the interminably long guitar solos, as in guitar shredding hero mode without the fast diddly bits, that he launches into nowadays when playing with his band - they go on forever and his band look bored and embrarrassed whilst he does them - its obvious no-one knows where he is going with them or when they are going to end !

As a 'solo' performer both in his early days, or on things like "World Gone Wrong" or other rare 'solo' appreances, Dylan's uniqueness and inherent musical genius shine through like a beacon elevating him to a level few people, however technically accomplished they are, seldom achieve and I couldn't agree with you more Leighton, but believe me, if you had seen him in the last couple of years you would know what I mean 

Re- Gibson's comment about buying a Gibson cos Ralph played one, well he is not alone cos I did it too except I bought a J-45, terrible thing it was, sounded nothing like Ralph's , of course, what did I expect    Anyway, had the last laugh cos I sold it for more than I paid for it, which is more than can be said for some of my others over thet years    I did "sort of" buy a National cos of Ralph but I already had a resonator guitar before him but it did make me want to have a proper one so I got one and love it to bits, happily 

Wouldn't all of us players just love to have a go on Ralph's old Gibson though   Or has anyone actually been near it and done it ? My wife has, but she was six at the time and can't remember it 

[Al]

I would like to hear items like That'll Do Babe in the raw, as it were. Oh, and no, I have never talked to him about it.....yet...!

Sorry Maj, this keeps making laugh, I think you should tell him  Tell you what, you tell him this first and if he sticks around I'll tell him his Yamaha sounds awful 

[MAJ]

Hmm, I do seem to have made a bit of an ambiguous comment.  I meant I'd like to hear That'll Do Babe un-amplified, not played by Ralph with no clothes on.

On the other hand.........................................

I am seeing Ralph on Thursday evening, so I'll see what I can get to say to him.

[Geoff]

Hmm, I do seem to have made a bit of an ambiguous comment.  I meant I'd like to hear That'll Do Babe un-amplified, not played by Ralph with no clothes on.

On the other hand.........................................

I am seeing Ralph on Thursday evening, so I'll see what I can get to say to him.

I understood you to mean that you wanted to hear it whilst you were, errr, in the raw...
Interesting.

[Gibson]

Must admit that my initial impression was that MAJ wanted to be in the raw . . . .    and why That'll Do Babe???  Some strange dance ritual there MAJ   

Perhaps you should have a word before the show on Thursday and decide just who's getting their kit off  -  now that would be an interesting review!

Briefly back to the Yamaha issue.  I remember in the early 90's that Yamaha had an advert in the tour programme and that Ralph used to mention the free guitar and how it was ironic that struggling musicians had to scrape money together to buy a decent instrument to try and make it big, and then when you had made it and could afford something decent, manufacturers wanted to give you an instrument for free.  That's what made me think that maybe it was something ongoing.  And yes, I would like to play his old Gibson (with clothes on).
 

[Al]

Briefly back to the Yamaha issue.  I remember in the early 90's that Yamaha had an advert in the tour programme and that Ralph used to mention the free guitar and how it was ironic that struggling musicians had to scrape money together to buy a decent instrument to try and make it big, and then when you had made it and could afford something decent, manufacturers wanted to give you an instrument for free.  That's what made me think that maybe it was something ongoing.

I just remembered that in the tab book with the pics of Ralph's guitars in it that it does say one "Yamaha" has gone back to the factory, so probably you're right, it is ongoing on whatever basis.

Does anyone else remember Ralph playing a big Guild, a F-50 of some description, I only saw it with him it once and I distinctly remember him saying on stage that it was 'gift' from Guild. I did notice it had disappeared from his collection as featured in the tab book, wonder where it went to 

As Gibson have been doing a run of signature guitars it would be fantastic if Gibson did one for Ralph. They usually base it on a particular guitar so in his case they would base it on his original J-45, of course - I know I'd buy one ! I am sure as much as anybody else you could think of Ralph popularized GIbson acoustics in the UK in particular at a time when the guitars they were making were most definitely 3rd division, they shoudl do one 

I am lucky enough to have a Martin Lonnie Donegan limited edition, gorgeous thing it is and sounds wonderful, adds a big of magic knowing Lonnie had a hand in its design and that it was based on his particular old favourite etc. Pity Ralph didn't play one of his Martins more often 

[ragtime]

I have to agree too that piezo electrics sound somehow 'plastic' to my ears, sort of noticeably synthetic. I wouldn't go so far as to say Ralph's modern sound is 'awful' but it is nowhere near as nice as his old sound. (The songs are just as good of course!). I would put it rather gently to Ralph, you know how sensitive he is about his sound. BTW I though he did have a sponsorship deal with Yamahah mentioned in a concert programme a few years ago.

I also understood that Miss Gibson was retired from live performance because so many refrets and rub downs has left her in a delicate condition. The lovely sound probably came from the fact that Ralph had the soiund board stripped soon after he bought it. (She is not a natural blond, you know!). I have never found a J45 that sounds quit like his, but I keep looking ...

Chris

[MAJ]

I understood you to mean that you wanted to hear it whilst you were, errr, in the raw...
Interesting.

Must admit that my initial impression was that MAJ wanted to be in the raw . . . .    and why That'll Do Babe???  Some strange dance ritual there MAJ 

Good grief you two!  Are you mad?! Have you lost all semblance of reason?    Actually, my cat is the only one unfortunate enough to see me do my little dance.

You never know I may come to the big bash armed with copies of the steps for us ALL to do...