Guitarist's Forum

[ragtime]

No problem, thanks Leighton. Glad to share.

I am currently revisting an old favourite - Birdman. Its in open D and I know the basic riffs, which are very dynamic and pleasing to play. It also uses a slide on the top string, but I haven't got the very nice slower 'coda' bit yet: "I'm a birdman, O watch me fly ..."

Any thoughts anyone?

Chris

[Geoff]

Chris,

Thanks for all the info. - well explained.

You're right about stretching for the bass., it takes a bit of getting used to, but well worth it.

Thanks again.

Looking forward to hearing your version one Thursday soon, at the Seven Stars!  (I'm still trying to get The Ferryman and Mr. Connaughton competently enough to attempt in public!). 

[Al]

No problem, thanks Leighton. Glad to share.

I am currently revisting an old favourite - Birdman. Its in open D and I know the basic riffs, which are very dynamic and pleasing to play. It also uses a slide on the top string, but I haven't got the very nice slower 'coda' bit yet: "I'm a birdman, O watch me fly ..."

Any thoughts anyone?

Chris

I did a version of "Birdman" for the birthday cd  - the 'slow' bit is based on the fingerings in the main riff, its kinda hard to describe it - with guitar balanced on my knee as I type its....

3rd fret 4th string with 4th fret fifth string pinched together followed by thrid string open ( "I'm a" ).

For the long "Bi...rd..man" its open 5th string, fifth fret on 4th and third strings picked together then a slide on 4th and 3rd strings up to 7th fret starting by hitting the 4th strng then the third after the sldie has started. This covers the "bird", as it were, the "man" is 3rd fret 3rd string, 4th fret 4th string together with open fifth.

The "oh watch me fly" bit is the familiar riff repeated throughout the songs but played slowly with a descending bass on fifth string ending on a bent 3rd fret 6th string etc - it starts with the chord ... 1st fret 3rd string, 2nd fret 4th string, 3rd fret 5th string with an arpeggio and stepped descending bass on fifth string down to 2nd fret 5th string, open fourth, 1st fret 3rd string, ending with 1st fret 3rd string and 2nd fret 4th string before bent note on 6th string and slide etc.

Of course there's lots of room for improvisation here, as well as thorughout the whole song, the coda can take all kinds of expression and additional slides, hammer ons etc which is why it has long been one of my favourites to play.


Hope this helps 

[ragtime]

Cheers Al

I've got it now. I just had a blind spot about that bit, but it makes sense within the patterns of the rest of the accompaniment. I'm busy putting my own spin on it now. As you say, open D is great for jumping off and improvising in all sorts of ways.

 

thanks again

Chris

[Ian R]

Birdman - what a fantastic piece - a blues with an intro and verse in 5/4! It took me ages to get that 5/4 riff to sound anything like half-decent when I first learned it. Haven't played it in ages; I'm going to have to go back to it... is it in "standard" open D - DADF#AD?

[Al]

Birdman - what a fantastic piece - a blues with an intro and verse in 5/4! It took me ages to get that 5/4 riff to sound anything like half-decent when I first learned it. Haven't played it in ages; I'm going to have to go back to it... is it in "standard" open D - DADF#AD?

yes, in a word  :-) Ian, since your postings about "The Fairground"  I have listened to it a couple of times and it still whizzes over my head, just not on my radar at all  I wound up trying to remember how I used to play "Are You Receiving Me?" instead 

[Geoff]

Has anybody managed to work out the chords for "the case of Otto Schwarzkopf"?  I tried but was totally defeated by all the 'accidentals'.  (but I'm hopeless working things out by ear, hence my massive music book collection, and frequent visits to Leighton's 'chords & Lyrics' page...thanks Leighton!)

[ragtime]

I was standing alone in the Fairground at night, when the candyfloss sticks on the ground revealed (most of) their secret code to me. I think I have worked out the guitar work for this song.

It is a highly unusual song in every respect. I think it is in the same territory as Clown. Ralph seems to be exploring really offbeat tonalities and harmonies in order to evoke the strange and off-kilter world of circuses and travelling fairs. What was in that "last cigarette Ralph!?".  No wonder he doesn't play it very often.

Sorry that this will become a very long post, butI have written out the whole thing with both chord names and fret board fingerings (which are more useful anyway) along with the words because there is no other way to get all the variations and quirky bits. Those interested may need to print it off to see the way it all works. The only piece missing is the little instrumental figure right at the end. I haven't found that yet. Any improvements or corrections gladly welcomed.

It's not too difficult once you get the hang of the unique tuning pattern. So here goes:

Guitar tuning:    FBbCFAF  (yes really!!)

INTRO
Bbsus4 (trill 4th finger)        Absus4 (trill 4th finger)         
5 7 5 5 6(~8) 5         3 5 3 3 4(~6) 3

Bbsus4 (trill 4th finger)        Absus4  (trill 4th finger) 
5 7 5 5 6(~8) 5         3 5 3 3 4(~6) 3

Eb                               Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                 3 3 5 3 2 3
Standing alone in the fairground at night

Eb                               Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                 3 3 5 3 2 3
The world racing past on the street,


F                       F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0       0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Only the stars and the            headlights of cars

F6                  F                   Bb                             Eb
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0   0  0 2 0 1 0                5  5 7 5 6 5
Like               the                fantasy world while it sleeps,

F                        F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0        0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
I looked around but there        wasn?t a sound

F6                   F                  Bb                    F                     Bb
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0   0  0 2 0 1 0       0 0 2 0 3 0      0  0 2 0 1 0         
Just                the                cinders            under my         feet.


D                                   C
4  4 6 4 5 4           2  2 4 2 3 2
Candyfloss sticks spelt words on the ground

D                                 C
4  4 6 4 5 4         2  2 4 2 3 2
I tried to read them in vain

F                             F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0             0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Before it was clear, the                wind blew my hair

F6                   F                  Bb                    F                     Bb
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0   0  0 2 0 1 0       0 0 2 0 3 0      0  0 2 0 1 0         
                      And               rephrased the   sentence      again.



Eb                              Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                3 3 5 3 2 3
I stopped to light my last cigarette

Eb                                  Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                    3 3 5 3 2 3
The fair was lit up in its glow,

F                       F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0       0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
I threw it away, but the           light seemed to stay

F6                  F                   Bb                             Eb
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0   0  0 2 0 1 0                5  5 7 5 6 5
Like                full                moonlight shining on snow.

F                                    F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0                    0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
I hardly dare breathe, I  just                couldn?t believe,

F6                  F                     Bb                  F                     Bb               
0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2  0 0 3 0     0  0 2 0 1 0     0 0 2 0 3 0      0  0 2 0 1 0                 
When            the                   music             started to        flow.


D                           C
4  4 6 4 5 4           2  2 4 2 3 2
Slowly everything started to move,

D                                           C
4  4 6 4 5 4                           2  2 4 2 3 2
Except me and I stood quite still,

F                                 F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0                 0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Then came a soft cry near the         coconut shy:

F6sus4        F9sus4 *           Fadd11         Bb                     *(or use Eb) 
0 0 5 0 5 0   0 0 7 5 6 0        0 0 9 7 8 0    0  0 2 0 1 0
?Will you      take me to        ride on the    wheel?. 

        F                                    F6                  F7   
        0 2  0 0 3 0                    0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0 
And around and around, the big                  wheel went spinning

Bb                  F
0  0 2 0 1 0     0 2  0 0 3 0
Round and     round until

F                             F6                   F7
0 2  0 0 3 0             0 2 2 0  3 0     0 2 3 0 3 0 
I noticed, although the fair-           ground was moving,

       Bb                     F                            Bb
       0  0 2 0 1 0       0 2  0 0 3 0            0  0 2 0 1 0
The rest of the         world had stopped still.

           D                                     C
           4  4 6 4 5 4                     2  2 4 2 3 2
It was then that I realised that I had to get off,

       D                                               C
       4  4 6 4 5 4                           2  2 4 2 3 2
Although I would have much rather stayed.

F                        F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0        0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Then with a jolt, the wheel       came to a halt

              Bb                      Eb
              0  0 2 0 1 0         5  5 7 5 6 5
And the music started to  fade.

F                                  F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0                  0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
As the lights went dim my head        started to spin

        Bb                   F                      Bb
        0  0 2 0 1 0      0 2  0 0 3 0      0  0 2 0 1 0
Told myself that I    wasn?t to          blame.


BRIDGE
F7 (II)                 F6 (II)      
0  5 5 4 0 0      0  4 5 4 0 0   

F7 (II)                 F6 (II)   
0  5 5 4 0 0      0  4 5 4 0 0   

Faug
0  3 5 4 0 0

Bb
0  0 2 0 1 0       (pick down and up the chord from 2nd string)


Eb                                         Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                           3 3 5 3 2 3
Looked at the ground at the candyfloss sticks

Eb                                 Db
5  5 7 5 6 5                   3 3 5 3 2 3
Now the message was plain;
F                                 F6                  F7
0 2  0 0 3 0                 0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0
Behind me the wheel and the           fairground was still,

F6sus4          F9sus4 *        Fadd11         Bb                         *(or use Eb) 
0 0 5 0 5 0     0 0 7 5 6 0     0 0 9 7 8 0    0  0 2 0 1 0
But out -        side it was      moving         again.

OUTRO
F                      F6                  F7                  F6                     F
0 2  0 0 3 0      0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0     0 2 2 0  3 0        0 2  0 0 3 0
     
Bb                    F
0  0 2 0 1 0       0 2  0 0 3 0     

F                      F6                  F7                  F6                     F
0 2  0 0 3 0      0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0     0 2 2 0  3 0        0 2  0 0 3 0

Bb                    F                            Bb
0  0 2 0 1 0       0 2  0 0 3 0            0  0 2 0 1 0       

F                      F6                  F7                  F6                     F
0 2  0 0 3 0      0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0     0 2 2 0  3 0        0 2  0 0 3 0

Bb                    F
0  0 2 0 1 0       0 2  0 0 3 0     

F                      F6                  F7                       F6sus4     
0 2  0 0 3 0      0 2 2 0  3 0    0 2 3 0 3 0           0 0 5 0 5 0   


F9sus4 *           Fadd11         Bb                                *(or use Eb)   
0 0 7 5 6 0        0 0 9 7 8 0    0  0 2 0 1 0


-----------------------------------------------------

Chord shapes used:

Bbsus4      5 7 5 5 6 5 (trill with little finger on and off 2nd string 8th fret)

Absus4      3 5 3 3 4 3 (trill with little finger on and off 2nd string 6th fret)

Bb      0  0 2 0 1 0

Eb      5  5 7 5 6 5

Db      3  3 5 3 2 3

F      0 2  0 0 3 0

F (II)      7 7 9 7 8 7

F7      0 2 3 0 3 0

F7 (II)        0  5 5 4 0 0

F6      0 2 2 0  3 0

F6 (II)      0  4 5 4 0 0

Faug      0  3 5 4 0 0

F6sus4      0 0 5 0 5 0

F9sus4      0 0 7 5 6 0

Fadd11      0 0 9 7 8 0

D      4  4 6 4 5 4

C      2  2 4 2 3 2


Note: The frequent movement from F thru F6 to F7 is a just single finger move on every beat that adds empahsis to the melody, made even more prominent by downstroke strumming on each chord. For full strumming patterns refer to the track.

The music has started to fade ....

Chris

[MAJ]

The only piece missing is the little instrumental figure right at the end. I haven't found that yet. Any improvements or corrections gladly welcomed.

I think we should ask the man himself.....

[ragtime]

Thanks MAJ. If you get the chance ...
But he might say: "I don't read music, I can't tell you". 

Chris

[Al]

Wow Chris, very impressive, guess what I am going to be doing tonight   

I have no ear for offbeat tunings whatsoever and would never have got this in a million years 

Actually, I've been pondering this a bit and noticed that essentially its like the "cross-note" tuning Skip James used to use for tunes like "I'd Rather Be The Devil" and "Hard Time Killing Floor". Skip played tuned to E  B  E  G   B  E, with the three E's. But to avoid tuning the A and D strings up, when I play them, I tune to D  A  D  F  A  D which is perilously close to Ralph's favourite open D ( D A D F# A D ) - so I wonder if Ralph is actually using a modified open D with a capo etc - although I don't know what to make of the C on the 4th string 

Just a thought. As Maj says, only the man himself could solve it for us perhaps 

[Ozspur]

Wow, ragtime, I am well impressed. Did you actually work all that out yourself?
How did you work out the guitar tuning?
Cheers,
Oz

[ragtime]

Thanks Oz

It was a kind of cumulative process over numerous tries. First I played along to the track in standard tuning to find the key it is in. (Actually you can play it with the chords I've wirtten out in standard tuning and it sounds alright, just not completely authentic) Once I found the 'home' chord was Bb I tried an open Bb tuning, but that sounded wrong and I couldn't find the other sounds. Then I cheated a little bit and looked up an index of all sorts of open and alternative tunings that I have in a fanatstic software programme called Nutchord.

There I found a strange one called "Wahine" which is: FBbCFAD. That sounded promising becasue it made it possible to move between Bb and F shapes with pretty easy first position fingering. I then stumbled on the F, F6, F7 move which matched the movement and internal melody I could hear in the track.

Eureka I thought ... but it still wasn't quite right. There were higher strings ringing on the original. So I tuned up the top string to F to keep the same chord types but add some highs. Some fingerings actually became easier now and the troublesome introduction began to sound better. (That proved very elusive anyway and I'm still open to other solutions - especially from the man himself, of course).

I knew I must be somewhere in the right ballpark (or fairground) when the very evocative moves between Eb, Db, D and C chords fell into place just looking like ordinary Bm7 type shapes up and down the neck. That had the feel of something a fellow guitarist would do naturally.

At first I did think Ralph might have used a 12 string, but I vaguely remember him playing it live at a gig many years ago and being stunned and impressed that he played all the little twiddles and extras with just four fingers on 6 strings! I may have worked it out (almost) but he wrote it. "O hands of Ralphie, O how they can play .."

Hope it all sounds right in your ears

Chris

[Ozspur]

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the info. I have downloaded a copy of Nutchord - I had no idea such stuff existed!  

I think it will take me a while to get my head around it. I think it will make a few songs I have been playing a lot easier to explain, for example 'If you could read my mind" by Gordon Lightfoot and 'Needle and the Damage Done' by Neil Young.
 
I always wondered how blokes came up with these chords. I guess they are pros and are able to spend a lot more time at it than I can. I can see I'm going to have to learn a little music theory, I've been winging it for years!

I'm off to try the Wahine tuning now. Hope the strings don't break.

Cheers,
Oz

[Al]

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the info. I have downloaded a copy of Nutchord - I had no idea such stuff existed!

I think it will take me a while to get my head around it. I think it will make a few songs I have been playing a lot easier to explain, for example 'If you could read my mind" by Gordon Lightfoot and 'Needle and the Damage Done' by Neil Young.

To my knowledge 'Needle and the damage done'  as played by Neil is in standard tuning, its a D chord with a descending bass line on the 5th string...go here for a reasonable transcription... its more or less how I've played it for the last 30 years 

http://www.jauko.nl/tot/tab/y/young_ne/the_nee.htm

Can't vouch for 'If You Could Read My Mind' but there's a transcript here in standard tuning too...

http://www.guitaretab.com/l/lightfoot-gordon/24466.html

Beware of pop-ups, better still have them disabled 

I'd be a little bit wary of making assumptions about tunings people are using, players with imagination can find things in standard tuning that can sound modal or whatever. I had one friend in particular who was convinced that Ralph used all kinds of strange tunings - his evidence was "The Ferryman" ... he had 'proven' that the little instrumental break that everyone wants to play was in a different tuning to the rest of the song .... I'll never forget his face when we sat cross-legged watching Ralph play it at Leeds University - "He was so slick I didn't even see him touch the tuners during that bit" I couldn't resist whispering when it ended 

[ragtime]

You do need to be a bit cautious with Nutchord sometimes. It names chords just by using the lowest string as a root note, which isn't always right. This just makes for some really complicated sounding names which aren't always necessary. It's a useful tool nonetheless. It can suggest new avenues of creativity and can help to work out and write down what you have done with your own fingers on a particualr piece. Its also a very handy chord index for standard tuning. At the end of the day it won't play the guitar for you. I think most players just tend to move their fingers around, explore and find something that sounds good. The names are for transcribers to work out later.

I agree with Al that Needle and the Damage Done and If You Could Read My Mind are in standard tuning. I think the Gordon Lightfoot one is basically in G with some interesting alterations inside the chords and in the bass line.

BTW I'm claiming no certainty about Fairground. It just sounds somewhow right with all the fret slides and movements I hear him play. But if it turns out to be in standard tuning, then I take my hat off to the man - again ...

Chris

[Ozspur]

Hi Al and Chris (ragtime),

Thanks for the replies guys.

What I meant about Needle and the Damage done and If You Could Read My Mind was the fact that I didn't know why the chords they used were so called. I play both of those songs in standard tuning and they sound quite good. I used the chords set out in the sheet music, the little chord diagrams at the start of the pieces. I can play them I didn't know why they were called that - for example G aug minor 7th five-eigth squaraed and take away the number you first thought of. Very confusing  .

I will often drop the bass E string to D for most things I play in that key but haven't really gone into it much more than that. I think what put me off was having to learn a whole lot more chord shapes  It was bad enough getting my (large) hands around B7 etc.

I have just thought that if Ralph uses the wahine tuning on The Fairground, then he would need to take an extra guitar with him on stage or spend ages retuning, This might be why he doesn't play it very often.

On another note (groan) I have ordered a special turntable with a pre-amp in it for Christmas. With a special jack ($2.00 from Tandy) I will be able to rip all my McTell LPs on to the computer as MP3s. Three of them were purchased at concerts and have been signed by the man himself. It will be good to hear stuff that is not so popular but which I haven't been able to access because my turntable died ages ago. If you want anything, let me know early in the new year and I can make it available on one of the P2P networks for a while.

Cheers,
Oz (Richard)

[Al]

Hi Al and Chris (ragtime),

Thanks for the replies guys.

What I meant about Needle and the Damage done and If You Could Read My Mind was the fact that I didn't know why the chords they used were so called. I play both of those songs in standard tuning and they sound quite good. I used the chords set out in the sheet music, the little chord diagrams at the start of the pieces. I can play them I didn't know why they were called that - for example G aug minor 7th five-eigth squaraed and take away the number you first thought of. Very confusing

Hi Richard, I have always found the names of chords in songbooks confusing - unless its tab I think they get people to transcribe them on piano and being musos they can't resist giving names to combinations of notes at random points in the music as chord diagrams so that you get completely the wrong idea   Its always struck me as being the musical equivalent of the Hungarian phrase book in the Monty Python sketch  

I first learnt "Streets" from the printed music and spent a valuable chunk of my life fruitlessly trying to work it out - if somebody had bothered to include a note for guitarists saying actually its played in C shapes with a capo I might not have gone grey so soon and figured out a whole lot more tunes sooner  

I tend to ignore the numbers and just fiddle around until I find something that doesn't make the cat move away any more  

But then tab came along and saved the day  

[Ian R]

[The Fairground]
It's not too difficult once you get the hang of the unique tuning pattern. So here goes:

Guitar tuning:    FBbCFAF  (yes really!!)

INTRO
Bbsus4 (trill 4th finger)        Absus4 (trill 4th finger)         
5 7 5 5 6(~8) 5         3 5 3 3 4(~6) 3

[...]

I think you've nailed it, Chris. I printed this out last night and tried it, and it sounds good... and authentic! I'm working out the figure at the end. I think it's a series of hammer-ons / pull-offs based around the Bb chord. I shall now abandon my attempt to do it in open G tuning. I hadn't yet started this, as I've been busy with a domestic crisis over the past month.

Re your comment about Ralph using a 12-string, I think I know where you're coming from. Particularly in the intoduction, there sounds like a second guitar (or is it a banjo??!!) playing a re-voiced chord high up the fretboard, taking in those 4th finger trills, which are a bugger to play with the full 6-string chord!

The interesting thing about the bridge, is that the guitar is playing F7 / F6, while the oboe (clarinet?) is playing some lovely accidentals, to which you allude in your preamble. I tried to play the oboe part on the guitar at the same time as the basic chord, but it was nigh on impossible - and didn't really scan.

Ian R

[rizraklaru]

Love this.
I've been playing my version in open D for years and it's not been quite right.
This version is much more on the money at first play-through.
Thanks.