Fairport Live Recording from 1975 for sale

[Jim]

I knew that really 

[Jefferson]

Thanks for that link guys - my copy is now on its way.

Just shows you that beneath the chit-chat some real gems are to be had by way of links to other FC related sites and downloads.

Thanks to all and don't stop the chit-chatting!

As a postscript - does the band get any royalties from our purchases?

Answers on a postcard....

[Jim]

well its been done with their approval
 so i suppose arrangements will have been made

[mikec]

As a postscript - does the band get any royalties from our purchases?

Answers on a postcard....

Hi Jefferson, if you check the first post in this thread it says near the end

"Yes, the tape started life as a bootleg. But has now been legalised by the band. Every songwriting and arrangement royalty will be paid. And the band get the same share of the profit as we do. They trust us on this and feel we won't rip them off. Can you imagine that?"

So yes royalties are being paid where due.

cheers

MikeC

[Thor-Rune]

Thanks for pointing that out for us, Mike. Yes, Jefferson, I can absolutely guarantee you that all royalties will be paid. And that the band will get half the profit, as well. We are currently working on covering our costs. Thanks to people like you lot, we are already 60 % there. I can't wait for the moment we send the first payment to the chaps. Imagine having Fairport on your wagelist.

To give you a feeling of how friendly they've been to us, I can tell you Peggy's response when I asked him if he could suggest a way for them to follow the sales progress of the CD. These were his excact words: "You're our friend and we know you wouldn't do anything to rip us off". How heartwarming is that to hear from one of your favourite musicians (or anyone else, for that matter)? And we felt the same trust from Swarb & Jerry.

We have just sent copies with press releases to Mojo, Record Collector, Dirty Linen, Uncut and Classic Rock. Goodness knows what they'll make of it. We are holding out breath and hope they'll go easy on the CD. Hopefully they'll get the point that it's an honest collaboration between fans and band. And a true labour of love. The press in Norway has been nothing short of phenomenal. Only one grumpy reviewer so far...

As for "Sloth"...well, thoughts and ideas are being discussed by Jonny and I. But don't hold your breath. I'm not making any promises, cos nothing gets done that ain't approved by Peggy, Jerry and Swarb. So it's a "maybe or maybe not" situation on that front, I'm afraid. At the appropriate juncture...in the fullness of time...

I'll get me coat...

Thor-Rune

[Andy]

Thanks again for doing this, Thor-Rune - and stick around! No coat needed!

[Jefferson]

Thanks for the info on royalties guys - much as I like live bootleg recordings of different artists (I have approx 300) I have not 'paid' for a single one of them. These have all been 'traded' i.e. 'swopped' with others for other bootlegs or on a 'blanks & post' basis. I would avoid paying good money to someone who openly rips off a band as I'm sure 'most' of us would. This CD is also well priced so good luck with the sales knowing that a decent contribution will go to the "FC Touring Fund".

Digressing to bootlegs for a bit longer .... there is a particular guy at the 'car boot sale' at Cropredy each year and I do feel very very irritated that he is openly selling for as much money as a brand new CD (and I don't mean Tesco prices!) an extensive selection of Richard Thompson bootlegs. How is he allowed to do this at such an event as Cropredy? What does RT get from any of this?

I have recently asked one member of Talk-a-while for a recording of the recent FC Cambridge concert he was 'offering'. Expecting him to ask for my trading list, he said I could have a copy for £10!! TEN BLOODY POUNDS and in who pocket does that go into I wonder?

Just so every one is clear of my intentions regarding bootlegs - live music is the best music. FC proves this time and time again and their Live CDs to me always outshine any of the original studio recordings. New arrangements come into play as each tour season passes. Live music is liquid and forever changing. Band lineups change and so does the music bringing new colours to older familiar songs. Studio outtakes are, for the most part, the coffee dregs that are left. Thats why they are never released by a band. They can only ever be of mere passing interest.

Comments and criticism welcomed!

[Chris]

I have recently asked one member of Talk-a-while for a recording of the recent FC Cambridge concert he was 'offering'. Expecting him to ask for my trading list, he said I could have a copy for £10!! TEN BLOODY POUNDS and in who pocket does that go into I wonder?

Comments and criticism welcomed!

Ok - you should name them & shame them. Sorry, ut that's my 2p worth....I would hope that this group wouldn't rip off our favourite band.....

I hope I don't know this horrible person....

[Andy]

It may or may not be the same person who has put this up on BitTorrent sites such as BTJunkie

[Jim]

whats the beef here?
 if you dont want to pay £15 for a boot - easy - just dont buy it
 and  bit torrent sites are the reason the internet exists. arnt they?
they certainly make up the bulk of traffic on the web, so i guess thor rune and the chaps arn't alone

if one of us is selling boots the he /she should be named and shamed

[Jim]

are there any recordings from the, just finished, wintour out there in cyberspace?

[Mindwarper]

I don't like the term boot, but I agree with you in principle. I think archive concert material should be available to the fans. I agree about how music is fluid and the different tours have different feel or band members. Sometime a song will be played differently or only on one tour. I like the king crimson collectors club. The band collects old material from various sources( including boots) and releases the best of them. I beleive there are over 30. Some bands are selling live cds of the show you attended. I love that idea, but so far it has only been big acts.  I love having copies of shows I attended. I would like to see FC have a collectors corner. I can trade, if the band is ok with that. Not all bands have the grateful dead approach to live trading. Also I read Maarts view of demos or outakes. I beleive they were not ment for public consumtion and therefore shouldn't be traded. A live show was for an audience, so it was for public consumption. If FC ever makes old recording/videos available, I will buy them. WHat are their views on traders? I have almost all official FC cds. I just listened to a 71 and a 78 show that I got in a trade, and I am so happy. I still haven't found that live version of lord marlborough, but another version of adieu adieu is always welcome. I'd never heard tipplers tale tour live, so it was a nice surprise. But I respect the right for  FC to get  money for their work. Anyone know how the band views traders or old archival recordings?  Anyone know of a live version of Lord Marlborough? 

ps  a dvd of all the old FC footage would be very very welcome. It all comes round again and again

 

Thanks for the info on royalties guys - much as I like live bootleg recordings of different artists (I have approx 300) I have not 'paid' for a single one of them. These have all been 'traded' i.e. 'swopped' with others for other bootlegs or on a 'blanks & post' basis. I would avoid paying good money to someone who openly rips off a band as I'm sure 'most' of us would. This CD is also well priced so good luck with the sales knowing that a decent contribution will go to the "FC Touring Fund".

Digressing to bootlegs for a bit longer .... there is a particular guy at the 'car boot sale' at Cropredy each year and I do feel very very irritated that he is openly selling for as much money as a brand new CD (and I don't mean Tesco prices!) an extensive selection of Richard Thompson bootlegs. How is he allowed to do this at such an event as Cropredy? What does RT get from any of this?

I have recently asked one member of Talk-a-while for a recording of the recent FC Cambridge concert he was 'offering'. Expecting him to ask for my trading list, he said I could have a copy for £10!! TEN BLOODY POUNDS and in who pocket does that go into I wonder?

Just so every one is clear of my intentions regarding bootlegs - live music is the best music. FC proves this time and time again and their Live CDs to me always outshine any of the original studio recordings. New arrangements come into play as each tour season passes. Live music is liquid and forever changing. Band lineups change and so does the music bringing new colours to older familiar songs. Studio outtakes are, for the most part, the coffee dregs that are left. Thats why they are never released by a band. They can only ever be of mere passing interest.

Comments and criticism welcomed!

[Jim]

if bands dont want studio outtakes to surface why dont they destroy the tapes
if studio outtakes are out there then its too late, the horse has bolted
 fand will always want to hear unreleased stuff
 i went for over 30 years before i heard the david rea /tom farnell rosie sessions
but i knew that they existed and while they wernt as good as the released stuff
 they certainly didnt disgrace the fairport name

[Chris]

I've no problem with licenced stuff like Thor-Rune's - that's the way to go.

But to make a profit from a punter's recording of a live gig that the musicians aren't paid a penny for....

That's illegal. That's immoral. That's what was being discussed above.

[David W]

I've no problem with licenced stuff like Thor-Rune's - that's the way to go.

But to make a profit from a punter's recording of a live gig that the musicians aren't paid a penny for....

That's illegal. That's immoral. That's what was being discussed above.

Whilst I broadly agree with you Chris what is the situation regarding photographs taken at gigs? If for example someone wanted to reproduce pne of your photos from an FC gig in a book would you charge for the usage and if so would the band whose image is being used benefit at all?

The other question, and when it is based on live recordings rather than cheap copies of studio albums, is do the bands lose out at all? The people who buy botlegs are likely to be c ompletists who will also buy all legal recordings as well.

Just asking the questions out of interest.

Jackdaw

[Alex Lyons]

The other question, and when it is based on live recordings rather than cheap copies of studio albums, is do the bands lose out at all? The people who buy botlegs are likely to be c ompletists who will also buy all legal recordings as well.

Very good point, Jack. I've considered that at length over the years, and I think it's very true - in fact, I'd go further than that and say that unofficial recordings - bearing in mind that "bootlegs" are only one sort of unofficial recording, those which are produced en masse - actually do a lot to promote a band.

It can't be just coincidence that those of us with the biggest collections of that sort of material, are also those who spend the most money on official music. I know a lot of Fairport collectors - both those from the old school tape trading scene, and also the current CD-R traders, torrenters, etc - and all of them are the sort of people to buy not only every Fairport album, but quite often any offshoot recording, and needless to say, attend gigs whenever possible.

I don't really have a problem with the selling of boots, as in the RT @ Cropredy example quoted, or at record fairs etc. The recordings aren't something the band could make money from, so they're not losing out in any way, and it's allowing people who wouldn't normally be able to obtain such recordings to do so.

It's not something I would do, however I do deal with people on a bespoke, one-to-one basis in a similar field. Usually taking an order to convert someone's rare/totally unavailable LP to CD, or perhaps convert a cassette they have of an old live recording. In those instances obviously I do have to charge for my time/expenses but that's not making any claim on, or profiting from, the original recording. Again, I deal with enthusiasts who have & will buy anything & everything official so nobody's losing out.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it's a very complex issue, and if there's one thing you learn in life it's that you can't really have hard & fast rules on such things.

[Chris]

The recordings aren't something the band could make money from, so they're not losing out in any way

Tosh!

If punters are prepared to pay £10 (say) for a live bootleg from a bootlegger (or even someone booting the the original bootlegger!), then ehy on earth wouldn't they pay the same £10 to the band themselves if they made it available directly?.....

The other question, and when it is based on live recordings rather than cheap copies of studio albums, is do the bands lose out at all? The people who buy botlegs are likely to be c ompletists who will also buy all legal recordings as well.

Indeed they possibly do. But see above. Artists may have very good reasons for not putting out a live recording. Timing - they may be pushing a studio album (likely if they're on the road!) and don't want to distract from it. It might not be technically perfect. etc etc. On the other hand, they may well be thinking about it - but by the time it's been mastered, the bootlegger has cleaned up by putting theirs out within days / hours of the gig and definitely diminishes any sales of their own product.

So in both cases (the latter significantly more than the former, I grant you), the band loses money.

Secondly the band own the copyright. Legally they are owed a consideration for this from anyone putting it out. So they lose money that way too.

what is the situation regarding photographs taken at gigs? If for example someone wanted to reproduce pne of your photos from an FC gig in a book would you charge for the usage and if so would the band whose image is being used benefit at all?

Aaahhhh....legally speaking, once a photographer has the artists permission to take photographs, technically that is where control of the result passes to the snapper as copyright in the image belongs (I believe!) to the snapper & not the artist. I guess legally there's the artistry of the snapper to consider in the angle, timing etc of the shot - whereas the bootlegger turns on their recording device at the start & turns it off at the end - not much artistic merit in that!). So there isn't the same consideration to be made.

Personally speaking, if I shoot an artist, then that artist always gets a set offered to them, to do what they wish with - with one proviso: that I get a copy of whatever it's used on. I think that's pretty fair - I recognise the artists talent by supplying the images, and the artists recognise my talent(?!) by supplying me with the finished product. I find that a fair way to work.

If a third party then wished to use it in a publication, it would really depend on its circulation. I got asked for a particular photo by one of these partwork publications last year, with a circulation / sale of 000's if not 00,000's. I took advice & charged then a (small) percentage of the turnover of that particular part. It's the only time I've been published in that sort of high-volume publication.

If the publication is basically a labour of love, and unlikely to sell more than 1000, I would likely just ask for a credit & a free copy. Which I've never been turned down for.

[mikec]

if bands dont want studio outtakes to surface why dont they destroy the tapes
if studio outtakes are out there then its too late, the horse has bolted
 fand will always want to hear unreleased stuff
 i went for over 30 years before i heard the david rea /tom farnell rosie sessions
but i knew that they existed and while they wernt as good as the released stuff
 they certainly didnt disgrace the fairport name

I've no problem with licenced stuff like Thor-Rune's - that's the way to go.

But to make a profit from a punter's recording of a live gig that the musicians aren't paid a penny for....

That's illegal. That's immoral. That's what was being discussed above.

I don't think that was what Jim was saying though Chris. In fact he has already said anyone selling boots should be named and shamed.

And for the record I agree with him

[NeilMcLaughlin]

It's thoroughly recommended, and I congratulate Jonny and Thor-Rune on this project.

I'll add my recommendation of this worthy project as well, and encourage others who have received it and enjoyed it to do so to keep it up on the board where anyone new wandering by will see it and help them (Jonny and Thor-Rune) recoup their expenditures on this labor of love. 

I'm just a bit concerned that the side issue discussions/concerns will get in the way of and obscure the fact that this live recording does have the band's blessings and is giving royalties where due.  Not that those issues don't deserve the semi-regular airing, but they don't apply to the recording that this topic was begun to address, IMHO.

[mikec]

In response to Neii's post can I add my request to making this thread a sticky please. Any excuse to promote this line-up