Trevor Lucas era - overlooked or over-rated

[David W]

Right then chaps,

I was recently listening to Nine, a fab album IMHO. Now whilst allowing that Rosie as an album was a bit hit and miss, and that Rising for the Moon was more of a Sandy showcase than Trevor it seems to me that there is still a lot of great stuff from those years that seldom gets dusted off nowadays.

The key vocal combination of Trevor and Swarb strikes me as similar to that of Simon and Chris so I wonder why we get so little - what price the current line up giving us a version of Pleasure or Pain, and I would love to hear Simon singing something like Restless or Iron Lion. Not to mention Polly on the Shore just for the joy of Peggy's fantastic bass line.

Essentially I guess the question is why doesn't Simon sing any of Trevor's songs - to me their voices seem to be in a fairly similar register and the songs would fit the current line up very well.

Any ideas?

Jackdaw

[Jim]

definitely not overrated, possibly overlooked by some but not here
the 9 lineup was great live, and none too shabby on record

[davidmjs]

Now whilst allowing that Rosie as an album was a bit hit and miss,

Now that's a bit of understatement and a half 

Nice track.  Awful album.

Not sure how underrated Trevor was/is mind - he sure was a fantastic talent...but doesn't seem to get the respect from 'outside' that he deserves...

A.T. 2 is a great Trev-fest.....such a pity he died so young...

[Pete Standing]

I thought Trevor had a cracking voice, wrote some good songs and was a good record producer too. My favourite song of his on Nine was Bring 'Em Down. Also don't overlook his contribution to Fotheringay.

Swarb thought highly of Trevor too, enough to write a song for him.

[Keith]

Maybe it's the Jerry Donahue factor; does Simon really want to play lead?

And yes, Trevor is basically in the same register, which means that Polly must just be a terrible oversight...

[Malcolm]

Last time they did Polly at Cropredy was one of the milestone anniversaries and Ralph did it as guest if I remember rightly.

[Alex Lyons]

Simon's sung 'Polly' a few times since the early 90s, part of the touring set for the 93 & 94 tours & several times at Cropredy. It's very hard to pitch at the start though so you can understand him not wanting to put himself through it every night!

[PLW (Peter)]

Now whilst allowing that Rosie as an album was a bit hit and miss,

Now that's a bit of understatement and a half 

Nice track.  Awful album.

The Plainsman is a good song too.

[Neil]

As with most Fairport the Lucas/Donahue era were better live than on record. They are well represented with live material throughout the years and they really made Sloth there own.

82 was my first Cropredy and I still remember the magic of Trevors voice from that show.

I think it's the lineup that for obvious reasons doesn't resonate particularly with Simon, Peggy on the other hand along with Swarb seem to be very attached to the period.

Possibly my favourite lineup because Nine was the first Fairport album I ever heard.

[Mindwarper]

I love the line up, but the studio stuff is not all that great with a few exceptions. All the live stuff seems great. I love his voice, both in Fotheringay, with A.L.Lloyd, and with Fairport. I think Polly is my favorite from that era. Also their version of now be thankful is very fine. I think some might overlook it, but I don't think the era is over rated. I wonder if his and Sandy's daughter has any of their vocal or musical talent. Even if it isn't folk, I would be interested to hear it.

[Alex Lyons]

Also their version of now be thankful is very fine.

Not to quibble, Mindwarper, but that line-up didn't do 'Now Be Thankful'. The Gottle line-up did it, the early 80s four piece(s) and obviously the current line-up, but not Nine. I bet it would have been good though....I can just hear Jerry playing some nice subtle lines, and Trevor's acoustic guitar & bass vocals.

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

I love the line up, but the studio stuff is not all that great with a few exceptions. All the live stuff seems great. I love his voice, both in Fotheringay, with A.L.Lloyd, and with Fairport. I think Polly is my favorite from that era. Also their version of now be thankful is very fine. I think some might overlook it, but I don't think the era is over rated. I wonder if his and Sandy's daughter has any of their vocal or musical talent. Even if it isn't folk, I would be interested to hear it.

Google not a lot of help re Georgia Lucas.

Has an article on her accepting an award on her mothers behalf.

No mention of her own artistic talents though

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/folkawards2006/report06.shtml

[Chris]

I wonder if his and Sandy's daughter has any of their vocal or musical talent. Even if it isn't folk, I would be interested to hear it.

Google not a lot of help re Georgia Lucas.
No mention of her own artistic talents though

That's because she is (was?) a DJ in Australia. I say was because her website describing her thus died about 4 months ago, and nothing further has been seen or heard. I guess Simon N may be able to shed light on what she's up to now, as I assume that would have come up in conversation at the awards....

[johnthegonne]

Thanks for starting this thread Jackdaw. Every year before Cropredy I've voiced the hope of some representation for Trev. He wrote some great songs, had a really expressive voice and had great stage presence.  Maybe next year we'll hear "Ned Kelly", Iron Lion" or "Plainsman". Didn't we have a bit of a debate about "Knights of the Road" a while back? Nice rock song. Overlooked for far too long.

[Harbottle (Martin)]

Right then chaps,

I was recently listening to Nine, a fab album IMHO. Now whilst allowing that Rosie as an album was a bit hit and miss, and that Rising for the Moon was more of a Sandy showcase than Trevor it seems to me that there is still a lot of great stuff from those years that seldom gets dusted off nowadays.

The key vocal combination of Trevor and Swarb strikes me as similar to that of Simon and Chris so I wonder why we get so little - what price the current line up giving us a version of Pleasure or Pain, and I would love to hear Simon singing something like Restless or Iron Lion. Not to mention Polly on the Shore just for the joy of Peggy's fantastic bass line.

Essentially I guess the question is why doesn't Simon sing any of Trevor's songs - to me their voices seem to be in a fairly similar register and the songs would fit the current line up very well.

Any ideas?

Jackdaw

I thought some of Trevor's stuff was great - "Bring 'em Down" is my favourite Fairport track. I like his vocals as well. Rosie, Nine and Rising are patchy albums though... Although I think Nine is pretty strong. One of my fave Fairport albums.

[Keith E Rice]

I love Side 1 of 'NINE'. A real return to form. In many ways, that line-up reconciled the pre-crash and 'L&L' Fairport styles - and in so doing paved the way for Sandy's return. (Even if sharing Trev's bed at night was her leading motivation!)

(In an sense you could even argue that 'NINE's' style prefigures the post-'GLADYS' mix...?)

The highlight of the album, though, is 'Bring 'Em Down' - a song so full of bile it makes the 'VOLUNTEERS'-era Jefferson Airplane look wimpy!! It's sung with such passion, with the band alternating between blister and psychaedelic sensitivity - and Jerry has never done those tremelo fills better. (Except on the live version dominating the latest reissue!!)

I struggle with the rest of the old Side 2, though. It takes me back to the mundanity that was large parts of 'ROSIE'.

That said, I still contest 'ROSIE' has other great moments than the title track. I love 'Down By The Danube' for all its silliness, DM's piano rolling and Trev's end vocals. ("We ain't your Rolling Stones. We ain't your T Rex. Actually, we're only here for the beer!" FAB!!). The 'Hen's Midden...' thingie is a really startling piece of Swarb showmanship superbly recorded. And the last track about the clock - can't remember the title - is a worthy effort too.

The corker, though, is 'Matthew Mark Luke & John' - thematically a tentative light alter ego to the damning darkness of 'Bring 'Em Down'. Musically the multi-tracked choral vocals set against what is arguably Fairport's most heavy metal track inbetween 'The Lobster' and the 'Metal Mattie' of the '25th ANNIVERSARY CONCERT'.

Once again though the reissue's live version tops it. Donahue is at his most I'll-eclipse-Thompson's-memory and the vocals are so spot on I had to listen and listen and listen again to convince myself they weren't studio overdubs. Peggy in particular is to be singled out for praise. His high harmony on that version is the kind of thing Graham Nash is extolled the world over for. Just breathtaking!

So, yeah, I love the 'NINE' line-up. Not perfect in the studio by any means but a highly inventive band that could dominate a stage and enrapture an audience.

I don't think Simon has anything to lose by tackling Trev songs. He's so long gone now there's no sense of competition - but Simon-does-Trev would give Fairport access to some real overlooked gems and pay homage by excellence to a stirling Fairport line-up.

And, if Simon really doesn't want to be Jerry Donahue, then get Jerry Donahue back!!!

[WestWind]

I read Clinton Heylin's biography of Sandy (NO MORE SAD REFRAINS), and I've come to wonder if maybe the positive side of the musical story of the "Nine + Sandy" lineup has not been properly told.  I've wished that Jerry Donahue would write a book, or at least an article (chapter of his biography?) about his years in FC (1973-1975).  Heylin's book makes several comments about Trevor being regarded as a "mediocre musician", but I don't think that's fair.  To me, his main musical sin was overdoing the strings when he produced Sandy's solo albums.  And, okay, if Heylin's account is correct, he did overspend on an expensive P.A. system for Fotheringay which apparently didn't work very well, thereby helping to squander their limited funds and contributing to the forces which ultimately led to Fotheringay's breakup.  I've seen reviewers denigrate his songs on the FOTHERINGAY album, but I certainly like them.  (And not forgetting his contributions to the songs for the aborted second Fotheringay album.)

Getting back to the "Nne + Sandy" lineup, I share the view that they showed their best live.  Since I never got to see them live, the best I can do is the live recordings.  MANY EARS TO PLEASE and WHO KNOWS? rock and give Trevor a chance for greater exposure.  (Since I'm a train enthusiast, you KNOW I like "Iron Lion".)  I'm looking forward to getting the remastered and bonus-tracked FAIRPORT LIVE CONVENTION, which I hear benefited greatly from the remastering, and Trevor gained with the bonus tracks; he had been relatively under-represented in the original track lineup.  Also, this album is really a "Nine/Nine + Sandy" album, since the instrumental tracks were recorded before Sandy rejoined; they seemed really cracking to me (on the original CD issue)!  I haven't gotten around to digesting BEFORE THE MOON yet, so can't offer an opinion on that one.

I must offer a confession underlying my seeming fascination for this FC era:  I BLEW IT!  I moved to New York City in 1973, and in 1974 and 1975, I went to Renaissance concerts TWICE.   Neither time was I lucky enough to have picked one where they were billed along with FC!  It's true that, although I knew a little of FC and liked what I had heard, I had not yet become a fanatic fan.  So now, the best I can do is play these golden live recordings of yesteryear through my titanium diaphragm headphones and let my imagination do the rest!

Cheers ///  Tom ***

[Neil Morrell]

Have recently been listening to "Restless" a lot.  It's a great song, and one I've not really listend to that much in the past.

[Mindwarper]

I love the line up, but the studio stuff is not all that great with a few exceptions. All the live stuff seems great. I love his voice, both in Fotheringay, with A.L.Lloyd, and with Fairport. I think Polly is my favorite from that era. Also their version of now be thankful is very fine. I think some might overlook it, but I don't think the era is over rated. I wonder if his and Sandy's daughter has any of their vocal or musical talent. Even if it isn't folk, I would be interested to hear it.

Google not a lot of help re Georgia Lucas.

Has an article on her accepting an award on her mothers behalf.

No mention of her own artistic talents though

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/folkawards2006/report06.shtml

Thank you. I hadn't seen that article or any photos of her before. It is nice artice and photo.

ps Alex, you are right. The version I am thinking about is on it all comes round. I think it is a 1970 show. The one with the helicopter taking off. I sure do wish they would release all the odd video bits on dvd. Or add extra footage to it all comes round again and release it on dvd.

PPs Is all the unreleased aborted 2nd fotheringay album songs available ? Is there any live material available for a live fotheringay cd?

[Sir Martin]

When push comes to shove, Nine is my favourite 'non Sandy' album - a fabulously strong set of songs.