Did the spirit of genius touch Fairport again in the early-mid-80s.

[Keith E Rice]

I just love 'QUIET JOYS OF BROTHERHOOD'.

I know it's culled from 'official bootlegs' which were probably never mixed properly, if at all. I'm suprised Peggy put his name on it as producer - it's so bad! Yet the music just shines through the appalling production.

Having it on the car CD player yet again recently set me thinking both as to just how astonishingly good it is and how the circumstances shaped it.

For me, it's certainly the most innovative album since 'LIVE' and arguably compares with 'HOUSE FULL' and the first 5 *classic* studio albums. Although FC had been a part-time band again for 3-4 years, they had only just released the first new studio material since the Vertigo albums and the Cropredy line-ups were much more integral to what FC was than has become the norm since - ie: the current line-up with old members guesting.

Perhaps  several of FC's heavy hitters didn't take it that seriously in 86-87. Reputations weren't that obviously on the line so they could try stuff that might or might not work. Just a week or so a year and some of them might not see each other again until the next Cropredy.

Maybe that was the shade of genius that seemed to hover again over FC in those years. In contrast to the rigid only-the-line-up-which-originally-recorded-it-can-play-it ethos which has largely dominated Cropredy since the 25th Anniversary, 'QUIET JOYS' shows the guys breaking all kinds of boundaries and making great music by doing so. Ric's see-sawing violin on 'Suzanne', Jerry riffing behind Richard's soloing on 'Time Will Show The Wiser', Ralph McTell and Richard so metallic on 'Bridge Of Sighs', Jerry's melodic looping on 'For Shame of Doing Wrong' the perfect set-up for Richard's snarling solo, Iain's so-emotional reading of 'Who Knows Where The Time Goes', Maart's fretless bass on the second version of it...and what about the acapella 'Woodstock'??

The quality of music is just so astonishing it carries in spite of the abysmal production. It's perhaps no coincidence that the strongest album by the revived band, 'GLADYS LEAP' came from this period.

What do others think of 'QUIET JOYS' and the sense of the band in this period?

[Neil]

The genius of Fairport and Cropredy in the mid 80's was the jamming as you have noted. This is what hopefully will return this next year rather than the slavish recreation of bygone years.

I am hoping to see something a little unusual next year not just the early years followed by everything after that. They had better pull out all the stops as this will probably be my last Cropredy 6000 miles is such a long way for a history lesson

[PLW (Peter)]

They had better pull out all the stops as this will probably be my last Cropredy 6000 miles is such a long way for a history lesson

No pressure then, chaps 

[Sir Martin]

As a live proposition Fairport were monster in the mid 80's - the gigs at Masham town hall (fueled by lots of XB) were fabulous - probably helped by it being a standing only venue, we danced until we dropped. Then out into the snow for Bacon sarnies from the cafe - happy days.

The confidence to jam was what appeared to go when DM & Maart left - which is such a pity because peggys bass playing really lifts when he has the fredom to play around a bit.

[Will S]

As I've said elsewhere (even today) this was the period I first saw Fairport and they were an excellent band.  They did some different things then too - I remember a Fairport New Year's Eve ceilidh at Gloucester with Beryl and Roger Marriott in 1988/89 (I think).  Don't see them doing anything like that now...

And I loved the slide shows for Hiring Fair and Portmeirion too.

[davidmjs]

I guess a lot of it depends on when you first saw the band and what kind of tinted spectacles one is wearing at the time!

I first saw them in the early 80's and was lucky enough to see the Swarb/Pegg/Nicol/Bruce line-up about 3 or 4 times.  My first Cropredy was '84. 

I was gutted therefore when Swarb ceased to be a member.  I still am, and, much as I love the guy, and fully recognise his amazing talent, I've never been fully reconciled to Ric's style of playing within the band.  I'd be much happier with Chris on fiddle and a decent guitarist and singer (a pity Steeleye got there first - discuss?!).  However, I now find myself listening to the 85-97 band quite a lot (live, not the albums, none of which I find terribly satisfying although one or two have their moments) and liking what I hear.  I'm afraid to say the current incarnation is my least favourite line-up, and certainly on record...none of which I find more than momentarily attention grabbing.

To me, Gladys Leap has the germ of a great album, but it's not quite fully formed.  A bit like my argument 

[Mark]

........................... I still am, and, much as I love the guy, and fully recognise his amazing talent, I've never been fully reconciled to Ric's style of playing within the band......................

You naughty, naughty man.

The scars from the last flame war over the Ric/Swarb debate are still pink and livid.

Don't ever mention the subject again.



Now, how about a discussion re: DM Vs. GC?

Anyone?

[Pat Helms]

Yeah, definitely a great period.  I prefer the philosophy (of newer members shaking up the old material) to the more rigid original line-up format of the last three BIG ONES. 

GLADYS is a great album, but I feel JEWEL was the "crowning" achievement of that particular line up.

I like Gerry just dandy w/ Fairport, but DM will always be the Daddy-O Drummer!     

[PLW (Peter)]

You know, as a Leicester City fan, I feel at home among Fairport fans. Always moaning that it's not quite as good as it used to be, and hoping it'll all suddenly be as good as that Cup semi-final in 1969. Rarely able to enjoy the moment we are actually in.

[davidmjs]

You know, as a Leicester City fan, I feel at home among Fairport fans. Always moaning that it's not quite as good as it used to be, and hoping it'll all suddenly be as good as that Cup semi-final in 1969. Rarely able to enjoy the moment we are actually in.

   I think that's true to a certain extent....BUT the difference with a band is you have so many, um, records of what they have left behind from different era - live recordings, albums etc etc etc which we can listen to again and again and again.  I won't apologise for thinking the band were better in the past...but I will for not being quite as openminded about what they are doing now as I might be...

And after all, let's not forget 'you' didn't actually have long to enjoy that semi-final did you - you lost to Man City in the Final, AND got relegated.  You see a Cup run always carries a cost.... 

[Cocker Freeman]

Neil Young got the winner. Surprisingly, the first Canadian songwriter to score at Wembley.

[Shane (Skirky)]

Followed shortly afterwards, I believe, by Alan Morris of Bangor, just before the sex change and that appalling Jagged Little Pill album

[Jack O Diamonds]

........................... I still am, and, much as I love the guy, and fully recognise his amazing talent, I've never been fully reconciled to Ric's style of playing within the band......................

You naughty, naughty man.

The scars from the last flame war over the Ric/Swarb debate are still pink and livid.

Don't ever mention the subject again.



Now, how about a discussion re: DM Vs. GC?

Anyone?

Interesting point about Ric Sanders' playing. It had never occurred to me. 

Gerry Conway was a superb drummer circa Fotheringay (listen to the subtlety of the drumming on "Banks of The Nile")... He is not in the same class as DM who is one of the best in the business (including full-tilt jazzers). Bruvce was underrated and sad not to see him at Cropredy reunions. He held the drum chair at a very good period of recovery for FC. Nice guy. Only Fairporter at Woodstock.

[Keith E Rice]

Ric's just very different to Swarb in his playing.

Swarb always sounded to me like a folkie fiddle scraper who - as he actually did for 'A Sailor's Life' - stuck a telephone microphone piece onto the bridge on his instrument. I know many people - including Ric - rated him as important to folk as Grappelli was to hot jazz and Menhuin to certain types of classical.

And maybe that's just it. Because of Fairport being a rock band who tackled folk, I tended to see Swarb as someone who largely stayed within the folk idiom as being limited. I was much more impressed with the likes of Papa John Creach and David LaFlamme in the early 70s.

Which isn't to say that, within the folk idiom, Swarb wasn't superb. Some of his playing on 'BABBACOMBE LEE', for instance, is so sweet it brings tears to my eyes and drags me back time and time again to that album. Another piece of his that has a similar effect on me is 'The Hen's March' off 'ROSIE'.

Although he had been messing with folk-derived material since at least his days with the Albions, Ric brought quite a different sensibility to FC. Very different to Swarb - a difference Ric really emphasised in the early days with all that echoplex and phased stuff, etc.

To me, that was quite a good move. Someone more in the Swarb style - like Chris! - would have always been the 'poor man's Swarb imitator'.

I think Ric was also a large part of the confidence FC had in jamming which Neil reckons is the core of my comment about the 'spirit of genius'. How many could get up there and spar so effectively with Richard on 'Suzanne' and Jerry on 'Carolina Moon' in front of 15,000 after just a couple of rehearsals?

As to GC and DM.... maybe it was that flat production on 'L&L', maybe it was just that I thought Martin was one of the greatest drummers ever and had the potential to put the likes of Ginger Baker in the shade, maybe it was the showy little flashes at live shows in the early 90s which actually disrupted the rhythm of the songs, but I've had a hard time taking to DM.

Maybe it was that first Steeleye album? They each drummed on 4 songs and I thought GC was so much more distinctive than DM. His opening to 'The Blacksmith' was just perfect - and totally grabbed your attention.

Paradoxically GC's drumming on Pentangle's 1989 reworking of 'So Early In The Spring' was so boring it really made me wonder if he'd lost it; while I finally got the message on DM's subtleties when listening to his verse-starters on 'For Shame Of Doing Wrong' when I picked up 'QUIET JOYS' last year.

So, there you go.... any conclusions on Swarb vs Ric or GC vs DM? Not really; but a lot of thoughts!

[Jack O Diamonds]

Fascinating stuff.... a bloody good read!

Just had to say how much I agree with the rating of Martin Lamble. He was well on his way to being a truly great rock drummer. Amazing range of technique.... I love listening to his (last ever?) work on A Sailor's Life or I'll Keep It With Mine.... No Man's Land... dreadful loss to music.

Correct about DM being a tad too over-technical at times.... But still a great, great drummer.

Now, back to Bruce!

[davidmjs]

Interesting post Keith...The only thing I strongly disagree with you about is where you talk about Chris (or a.n.other fiddle player) being potentially regarded as a Poor Man's Swarb.  I just can't see that...I mean the two guys played together in Whippersnapper happily enough and there was never that kind of feeling from the audience?  I don't remember anybody saying that at Cropredy '92 either... He's a different fiddle player, but he IS a fiddle player.  Or was.  To my mind, two of the things that define what Fairport are (post L&L) are a lead guitar and a fiddle player, and they're missing both of those at the moment... 

[PLW (Peter)]

Neil Young got the winner. Surprisingly, the first Canadian songwriter to score at Wembley.

Although Joni Mitchell hit the post in 1971.

[PLW (Peter)]

To my mind, two of the things that define what Fairport are (post L&L) are a lead guitar and a fiddle player, and they're missing both of those at the moment... 

They have two fiddle players.

[davidmjs]

To my mind, two of the things that define what Fairport are (post L&L) are a lead guitar and a fiddle player, and they're missing both of those at the moment... 

They have two fiddle players.

No they don't.  They have a (supremely talented, before anybody accuses me of saying anything I'm not) electric violinist, and a Bouzouki player

 

[Cocker Freeman]

I'm not sure Chris Leslie played bouzouki till he joined Fairport. To my mind he is a top violin player but don't take my word for it, Joe Broughton said to me once that Chris is the "finest".

He's also one of this country's great mandolin players. A superb musician.

The chemistry of the current Fairport line-up is a matter of personal taste of course.