Adam
I'm looking at you, Cool Cat!
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« on: January 22, 2007, 07:45:04 AM » |
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I'm sure I read somewhere (?) that Richard Thompson refuses to play Farewell farewell, due to the connotations that the song brings, and that the nearest he has got when requested is playing Willy o'Wensbury (sic). Can anyone set me right on this? I'm sure that this is going to be one awesome Cropredy.....  Cheers Adam Edit: This was snipped from the Cropredy Headliners thread. It's an interesting discussion and worth a thread of its own... Cheers! |
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Mitch
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2007, 09:33:37 AM » |
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There's a comment along those lines in one of the reviews of L&L on Amazon:
"The album also contains some fine original material in "Crazy Man Michael" and Thompson's moving "Farewell Farewell" which was based on the traditional tune "Willie O'Winsbury" and is supposedly inspired by the band's tragedy (he never sang the song live and even recently when appearing at a request show in New York, he chose to play "Willie O'Winsbury" when "Farewell Farewell" was requested)."
Guess we'll find out in August, though I'm fine with whatever RT wants to do...
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Malcolm
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2007, 10:51:21 AM » |
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Presumably, Chris While will sing it as it was Sandy's vocals. If RT plays WoW, the tune should fit.
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davidmjs
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2007, 11:03:38 AM » |
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Presumably, Chris While will sing it as it was Sandy's vocals. If RT plays WoW, the tune should fit.
LOL - He's not wrong you know....  |
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gower flower (Shirl)
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2007, 11:32:04 AM » |
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I've only just realised that Willy O' Winsbury and Farewell, Farewell had the same tune!  My excuse is that I heard Willy O'Winsbury on a Pentangle CD and didn't hear Farewell, Farewell until, um, decades later |
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That's not dirt, it's patination!
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MarkV
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 05:19:24 PM » |
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I've only just realised that Willy O' Winsbury and Farewell, Farewell had the same tune! My excuse is that I heard Willy O'Winsbury on a Pentangle CD and didn't hear Farewell, Farewell until, um, decades later I only found out at Big Session last year when Martha Tilston did Willy o Winsbury. Half asleep and drifting, due to the beer not the music, and suddenly this tune impinged on my subconsious, woke like a vampire at sunset! |
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O to 62 in sixtytwo years. Where does the time go?
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Rory.
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 05:36:56 PM » |
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Speleologist (Robin)
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 10:58:29 PM » |
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My assumption has always been that RT took a trad tune and wrote new words to it. Does anyone know any different?
It's certainly a trad tune, though Richard himself suggests (quoted in the book from the FreeReed box set) that it wasn't the original tune for Willy O' Winsbury, but that Andy Irvine put the tune and words together. I've never heard Andy Irvine's version, maybe I should dig it out. |
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"Posthabui tamen illorum mea seria ludo"
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Scrump
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2007, 02:18:54 PM » |
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It's certainly a trad tune, though Richard himself suggests (quoted in the book from the FreeReed box set) that it wasn't the original tune for Willy O' Winsbury, but that Andy Irvine put the tune and words together. I've never heard Andy Irvine's version, maybe I should dig it out.
The song was recorded by Sweeney's Men in 1968, when Andy was a member of the group. The story goes that Andy accidentally set Willy O' Winsbury to the wrong tune, using a Scottish tune called Fause Foodrage (don't ask me what that means though!) - this is the tune used for Farewell, Farewell. He was apparently copying the tune from a book of Child Ballad tunes, and somehow the page had turned over and he copied out the tune without noticing it was the wrong page (I think the book used numbers rather than titles, so it was probably an easy mistake to make). So Farewell, Farewell is not set to the tune of Willy O' Winsbury, just the Sweeney's Men version of it, which used a different tune. The Sweeney's Men version should hopefully still be available on CD, if anyone wants to hear it. Apparently a lot of other singers recorded the song afterwards with the 'wrong' tune, helping to compound the misconception. I'm old enough to remember Liege & Lief coming out, and I (like many others) thought it was a rewrite of Willy O' Winsbury. I didn't know otherwise until a couple of years ago. But it's a nice tune, so I like to think it's worked out for the best! I've never heard the actual tune that Andy meant to copy - it would be interesting to hear that, and see how Farewell, Farewell might have turned out  Cheers Scrump |
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Rory.
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2007, 02:34:55 PM » |
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.......
The story goes that Andy accidentally set Willy O' Winsbury to the wrong tune, using a Scottish tune called Fause Foodrage (don't ask me what that means though!) - this is the tune used for Farewell, Farewell......
Cheers
Scrump
Thanks for that Scrump, 'Fause' is the Scots word for deceit (false) and I presume Foodrage is a name. Rory Sorry for the thread drift |
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Bob Barrows
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 04:54:20 PM » |
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It's certainly a trad tune, though Richard himself suggests (quoted in the book from the FreeReed box set) that it wasn't the original tune for Willy O' Winsbury, but that Andy Irvine put the tune and words together. I've never heard Andy Irvine's version, maybe I should dig it out.
The song was recorded by Sweeney's Men in 1968, when Andy was a member of the group. The story goes that Andy accidentally set Willy O' Winsbury to the wrong tune, using a Scottish tune called Fause Foodrage (don't ask me what that means though!) - this is the tune used for Farewell, Farewell. He was apparently copying the tune from a book of Child Ballad tunes, and somehow the page had turned over and he copied out the tune without noticing it was the wrong page (I think the book used numbers rather than titles, so it was probably an easy mistake to make). So Farewell, Farewell is not set to the tune of Willy O' Winsbury, just the Sweeney's Men version of it, which used a different tune. The Sweeney's Men version should hopefully still be available on CD, if anyone wants to hear it. Apparently a lot of other singers recorded the song afterwards with the 'wrong' tune, helping to compound the misconception. I'm old enough to remember Liege & Lief coming out, and I (like many others) thought it was a rewrite of Willy O' Winsbury. I didn't know otherwise until a couple of years ago. But it's a nice tune, so I like to think it's worked out for the best! I've never heard the actual tune that Andy meant to copy - it would be interesting to hear that, and see how Farewell, Farewell might have turned out Cheers Scrump I've just found a song called King O'Luve - Fause Foodrage on an album called Early English Ballads from the Percy and Child Collections (Ballads Reliques) by Hermes Nye. The melody is definitely similar to Willy/Farewell. Would you happen to know the name of the tune that Andy meant to copy? Please don't tell me it was Willy o'Winsbury ... |
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Scrump
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2007, 05:32:32 PM » |
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I've just found a song called King O'Luve - Fause Foodrage on an album called Early English Ballads from the Percy and Child Collections (Ballads Reliques) by Hermes Nye. The melody is definitely similar to Willy/Farewell. Would you happen to know the name of the tune that Andy meant to copy? Please don't tell me it was Willy o'Winsbury ...
Sorry to everyone who doesn't find this interesting - I was just replying to the point about Farewell, Farewell / Willy O' Winsbury raised earlier in this thread. Hi Bob - I believe the tune was one used for Willy O' Winsbury, which, like a lot of old songs, was sung to more than one different tune. And Andy's error means we can add one more! All I can tell you is that the tune Andy intended to copy (the 'right' tune) was on page 418 of Child vol. 5, and that the tune for Fause Foodrage (the 'wrong' one we ended up with!) was on the previous page (416). So it seems the page had accidentally got turned over and Andy didn't notice at the time. By the time the mistake was pointed out, the album had been issued and it was too late to change it! Hmm, 'Foodrage' - is that anything to do with Gordon Ramsay? ... I'll get me coat Bob - is that recording available on CD? I'd be interested in hearing it. |
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steeley
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2007, 06:10:51 PM » |
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I've just found a song called King O'Luve - Fause Foodrage on an album called Early English Ballads from the Percy and Child Collections (Ballads Reliques) by Hermes Nye. The melody is definitely similar to Willy/Farewell. Would you happen to know the name of the tune that Andy meant to copy? Please don't tell me it was Willy o'Winsbury ...
Sorry to everyone who doesn't find this interesting - I was just replying to the point about Farewell, Farewell / Willy O' Winsbury raised earlier in this thread. Hi Bob - I believe the tune was one used for Willy O' Winsbury, which, like a lot of old songs, was sung to more than one different tune. And Andy's error means we can add one more! All I can tell you is that the tune Andy intended to copy (the 'right' tune) was on page 418 of Child vol. 5, and that the tune for Fause Foodrage (the 'wrong' one we ended up with!) was on the previous page (416). So it seems the page had accidentally got turned over and Andy didn't notice at the time. By the time the mistake was pointed out, the album had been issued and it was too late to change it! Hmm, 'Foodrage' - is that anything to do with Gordon Ramsay? ... I'll get me coat Bob - is that recording available on CD? I'd be interested in hearing it. enough already,this anal ising songs,hey anyone remember richie doing britteny,s whoops i did it again,thats right 35th ann totaly surreal,anyone?? |
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Andy
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2007, 06:15:41 PM » |
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hey anyone remember richie doing britteny,s whoops i did it again,thats right 35th ann totaly surreal,anyone??
It's part of his "1,000 years of popular music" show and is included on the DVD. |
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davidmjs
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2007, 06:32:59 PM » |
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hey anyone remember richie doing britteny,s whoops i did it again,thats right 35th ann totaly surreal,anyone??
It's part of his "1,000 years of popular music" show and is included on the DVD. And there's a version (not sure if the same) on the Box Set. |
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peterwales
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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2007, 04:42:37 PM » |
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Best version of "Willie...." is by Anne Briggs, IMHO; the "connotations" referred to as regards Richard- I'm sure are right...anyway, "Farewell, farewell" is a deeply moving song- never mind anyone's own personal losses and grief.
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Anna
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« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2007, 07:49:55 PM » |
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s'funny. I was just about to say that Peter, I'm in the process of ripping all my CD's to a new MP3 player (don't ask), and noticed Wo'W on the Anne Briggs compilation CD. Must make a note to listen to it. Although I'm not a great fan of Anne as a singer, I think that CD is great source material.
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Sir Robert Peel
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2007, 07:07:30 PM » |
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enough already,this anal ising songs,hey anyone remember richie doing britteny,s whoops i did it again,thats right 35th ann totaly surreal,anyone??
I've had a complaint about this post. It was rude and unnecessary to disrupt a thread when the posters were on topic and discussing Farewell, Farewell. Start your own thread, Steeley. Peel |
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peterwales
a lot more rugged and a lot less "twee"
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2007, 08:18:22 PM » |
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s'funny. I was just about to say that Peter, I'm in the process of ripping all my CD's to a new MP3 player (don't ask), and noticed Wo'W on the Anne Briggs compilation CD. Must make a note to listen to it. Although I'm not a great fan of Anne as a singer, I think that CD is great source material.
Must be the same CD ("A Collection"?)I've got of her's....I know what you mean; and that music of hers can appear very "stark" as it is mostly unaccompanied. There are several very good songs on it though, apart from WoW- Living by the Water, Go Your Own Way (with, and supposedly about, Bert Jansch), and Blackwaterside. The over 10 minutes long version of "Young Tambling" (i.e. a traditional version of Tam Lin ) is fascinating if a little heavy going on the ears and senses! |
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Anna
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2007, 09:50:39 PM » |
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Yep, that's the one. There's so many songs on it that have turned up elsewhere. It's interesting to go back to a more, "historical", version of a song - sometimes you can really see an evolution thing going on.
Have just put Willy o'Winsbury on, albeit through the tiny speakers on the laptop, and yes, it's indeed the same tune! Well, there's always been a lot of putting different words/new words to old tunes and/or new/different tunes to old words. Long may it continue, gives us something to talk about in the evenings anyway!
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