Pete Standing
Cheesy Wonder
Sr. Member
 Offline
Posts: 436
Loc: Oxford UK
fka Cheesy
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2007, 12:06:50 PM » |
|
Bob, I will IM you with that if you wish. What I will say now is this:-
With respect to "Old guard" and "Self Appointed Folk Police", check out the other forums (Mudcat, BBC and fRoots), there were people claiming to be fans and supporters of Seth who said that the Beeb and Smooth Ops had got it wrong and what point was there in having two categories for song awards if the criteria was not going to be strictly applied. Check out Seth's own forum, even some of Seth's more devoted followers were saying that the Beeb and Smooth Ops were wrong. OK, some people were taking the opportunity to have a pop at Seth because they don't like him, but most were not taking issue with Seth, just the awards. Plenty of these people are not "old guard, hard core traditionalists", plenty of these people appreciate the new and diverse aspects of folk music.
Irwin asks the question When is a traditional song not a traditional song? Now I would have thought a journalist who has worked in the industry for a few years would know, and if the journalist didn't, would do some research to find out. A good place to start might be Cecil Sharp House, Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, handily placed for reporters working in London. Then I would expect that journalist would want to educate a largely ignorant readership with their findings.
As for the inane statement there were calls for an overhaul of the voting structure: demands to publish the names, voting patterns and possibly the inside-leg measurements of the 150 judges critics were calling into question if nominations and votes came from people who had a vested interest in the results. Is that so wrong? In fact, the winning nomination got 23 votes, Seths got 9. Neither of these are a massive endorsement out of 150 - in fact the maximum number of votes cast would have been 76 or as low as 52. We want to know how the awards are organised, who takes part and what they have to gain from it. We are not wanting to sort out their trousers, a tailor should do that.
I quote
The definition applied by Smooth Operations' executive producer, John Leonard - a former singer, and one of the folk scene's good guys, who bizarrely seems to have been cast in the role of public enemy No 1 - is "a song of no known composer that's passed through many hands".
Well, that is a definition that many people would be very happy to accept and I would agree with, though maybe a bit on the brief side.
He continues: "Seth's explanation seems to fit that criteria and I was convinced by his argument. I suppose I have a romantic notion that traditional songs can still be uncovered." Well, that rules out the song's eligibilty because firstly we know the composer and secondly the song will not have had the opportunity to have passed through several hands.
I quote
Many of the "Outraged of Tunbridge Wells" missives bombarding the BBC demanded the expulsion of The White Hare, to be replaced on the shortlist by whatever finished fifth in the original nominations. (Their reaction would have been interesting, as the next in line was Lakeman singing King & Country.)
Interesting for what reason, that it was another song by Seth, that it is a song credited as Seth Lakeman's or both? From my point of view (and that of others) is that there can be no question about the category of this song, it is contemporary and the "panel of experts" nominated it for the trad section.
I quote
People passing off their own songs as traditional is scarcely new. Nic Jones, the recipient of a special Good Tradition gong at this year's folk awards, makes no bones about the fact that he routinely wrote original music and/or lyrics to stories and listed them as traditional. "It was common practice. The first part of my song Annan Water, was based on a traditional tune, but the rest I wrote myself. And I'd get bored singing the same thing every night so I'd keep changing it to make it more interesting, and in the end it bore no resemblance to the original. You'd get the odd person saying I wasn't doing it the correct way, but that's just silly. Songs change over the passing of time. It's the oral process."
I would wager that that is a quote of Nic's dug up from the distant past and not from the night. If I am right, would Nic agree with that now? It is another ruse of a journalist picking something to suit the argument - that said, I could be accused of doing the same. A statement made by a respected performer may not have any more validity than one from "one of us".
I quote
"Seth is the victim," says Jim Moray, another young singer who has made waves with his ultra-modern approach to folk song. "A lot of people have been looking for a stick to beat him with for a while. I did raise my eyebrows when I saw the nominations, but it's a big argument about nothing. People get proprietorial about songs. It's not so much a clash between old and new as a collision between those who have remained true to some vaguely hippyish ideal and the celebrity culture."
Seth is not the victim, Smooth Ops and the Beeb are. This will make little difference to Seth, it might even enhance his sales and popularity as people wondering about the fuss decide to check him out. Where his reputation has suffered is with only those who don't like him, don't like what he does and determinedly never will, a small and unfair but vocal minority.
I quote
In the end, none of it matters.
Well why write the article then?
So here are some favourites of mine from the article:-
the folk community has been getting its knickers in an almighty twist again.
leading some critics to complain that the BBC couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery. A pertinent point, considering the awards were held in the Brewery at London's Barbican.
had the message boards ablaze with conspiracy theories, while the self-appointed folk police hurtled around in ever-decreasing circles
the old guard cried foul. Seth had written the song, they yelled.
the hardcore folk movement built itself into a frenzy of indignation,
the fury continued with renewed venom. On the BBC's folk website there were calls for an overhaul of the voting structure: demands to publish the names, voting patterns and possibly the inside-leg measurements of the 150 judges; threats to invoke the Freedom of Information Act; and pleas for a definitive ruling on what constitutes a traditional song.
The definition applied by Smooth Operations' executive producer, John Leonard - a former singer, and one of the folk scene's good guys, who bizarrely seems to have been cast in the role of public enemy No 1
Many of the "Outraged of Tunbridge Wells" missives bombarding the BBC demanded the expulsion of The White Hare, to be replaced on the shortlist by whatever finished fifth in the original nominations.
With these sorts of comments, who is the winner? Will people be put off more by or driven away from folk music by such statements? If Colin Irwin is a friend of folk music, what good has he done here? I am not denying that he shouldn't have written the article covering the awards and the song and I'm not denying that he was right to criticise people like me who are considered to be part of the old guard and self appointed folk police, but he has a duty, especially in what is considered to be a quality newspaper, to write something that is balanced and free from sensationalist sentiments and not to reinforce stereotypes that are going to deter people from exploring folk music.
A a Glaswegian once said, "Is that a cake I can see or a meringue?"
So, am I wrong?
|
