Cropredy Future

[PLW (Peter)]

Cropredy isnt like most festivals, its whole reason for existance is Fairport. so for me, no FC - no cropredy
i also couldnt see the band survivng Simon or Peggys departure

Hmmm .... I can see it surviving Simon or Peggy's departure. For all the brass band/football team analogies, I find it harder to picture it surviving Simon and Peggy's leaving.

I remember a conversation with a mate at school in 1971. "What do you mean Richard Thompson's left? That's it then, Fairport's finished."

[Woodpecker]

I remember a conversation with a mate at school in 1971. "What do you mean Richard Thompson's left? That's it then, Fairport's finished."

I had a similar conversation when Sandy and Ashley left!   I'm ashamed that I really believed it and it took some time to get round to listening to Full House and before I eventually realised that this was good too!

...although it was a very different band and sound IMHO  (to follow Simon's analogy the knife changed its handles and blades and (to me) changed from fish knife to steak knife!)

[Nancy]

I just hope it doesn't happen any time soon, if at all. To me MOTL at Cropredy = summer!

[red max]

I find it interesting, this idea of bands carrying on irrespective of who's still a member. You see so many "official" lineups of bands with only one remaining muso from their heyday, at what point does it lose any sense of credibility? I guess Fairport were an interesting example of this, when Simon bailed out in the 70s there wasn't a founding member left, and yet who'd argue that "Nine" wasn't a genuine, worthy Fairport album?

This comparison with brass bands and orchestras probably doesn't bear close scrutiny, as in both cases the identity of the ensemble is so much stronger than any individuals. If the tuba player in the Black Dyke Mills Band departs that's hardly the same as Peggy being replaced on bass.

Fairport could carry on with younger replacements, but when age catches up with the punters will they also be replaced?

[Mark]

.......................... that's hardly the same as Peggy being replaced on bass.

Fairport could carry on with younger replacements, but when age catches up with the punters will they also be replaced?

Interesting you should pick a non-original member as your reference point  

[PLW (Peter)]

.......................... that's hardly the same as Peggy being replaced on bass.

Fairport could carry on with younger replacements, but when age catches up with the punters will they also be replaced?

Interesting you should pick a non-original member as your reference point  

Indeed - and on occasions, Peggy has been replaced on the bass.

I would say the band remains a band as long as it keeps producing original material. If it exists only to play old material, then it loses its point altogether. That's when it becomes its own tribute act.

[David W]

I think the question about the festival without FC - and FC's future is more about the punters than the band.

Would people be willing to pay top dollar to see a "second - or possibly third - generation" Fairport, made up of musicians in their 20s and 30s playing Fairport songs. Is "youngster" Chris Leslie "Fairport" enough to lead a band with younger musicians?

But as to Cropredy as a festival, I agree with Jim, no Fairport no festival.

David W

[PLW (Peter)]

IBut as to Cropredy as a festival, I agree with Jim, no Fairport no festival.

Things evolve though don't they? The Three Choirs Festival started in 1715, and it's still going two hundred and some years on. One day, in the far distant future, there may be no Fairport, but Cropredy may well have evolved into a different kind of event.

An event can survive it origins if it isn't resistant to change. . . but I agree, at the moment, a Cropredy headlined by someone other than FC would feel very odd indeed.

[Nick Reg]

I think evolve is the important word. Punters are more likely to remain loyal if the changes are over a longer period of time. The Liege and Lief line up didnt change to the current one overnight!!

[Andy]

Cropredy is a music festival and always has been, to my understanding. I'd not be surprised if the organisers try to keep it going as members of FC retire etc since it is a commercially successful operation which undoubtedly pays its way.

Sentiment dictates that some FC presence be maintained, but, realistically, that can't go on forever. I don't see any signs of new blood entering the fold, this lineup is, after all, 10+ years old.

[Dr Monk]

As far as the festival goes, I suppose it has to be asked what the festival could offer apart from Fairport were they ever to disband.

How much of Cropredy is about Fairport? Quite a bit!

How much is it about the setting - the field, the atmosphere, the village, canal etc? Also quite a bit

The crux point, I would suggest, is whether the setting and the combination of acts would be enough to give Cropredy a distinctive feel without Fairport.

There are quite a few medium-size festivals going on now that provide an alternative experience to Glastonbury and the like- Green Man, for example. For Cropredy to work without Fairport, I would suggest that it would have to consistently have a range of acts that match some of those festivals. Though there have been some great acts at Croppers over the years, I'm not sure that there would have been a consistently strong enough draw to match some of those other festival bills without the Fairport fans coming.

Tapping into different age groups - as with having the Levellers and Supergrass play, is obviously the way to go about getting in people that aren't just coming for Fairport and start to come for the festival, but it must be a difficult balancing act not to alienate the long-timers.

I hope that Cropredy without Fairport is a distant prospect. In the meantime I would be happy to see a consistently strong range of acts.

[Harbottle (Martin)]

Cropredy is a music festival and always has been, to my understanding. I'd not be surprised if the organisers try to keep it going as members of FC retire etc since it is a commercially successful operation which undoubtedly pays its way.

Sentiment dictates that some FC presence be maintained, but, realistically, that can't go on forever. I don't see any signs of new blood entering the fold, this lineup is, after all, 10+ years old.

Non one's left for ages, though, have they.

[Woodpecker]

The crux point, I would suggest, is whether the setting and the combination of acts would be enough to give Cropredy a distinctive feel without Fairport.

This thread really makes you think about what it is that makes the 'Cropredy vibe'.

In my bones I feel it's all about Fairport from the moment you drive into Williamscott.

Am I being naive to have believed that the acts are all suggested by and approved of by members of Fairport?   ...Or is it really just a matter of who's available and who can be afforded?

This is probably why I remain glued to my chair for the weekend and never find the time to enjoy the village and surrounds - I assume that if a musician in Fairport considers the band good enough to play at 'their' festival then they deserve a listen.  I'd assumed that was why we got such an enjoyable and eclectic group of acts.  I've said elsewhere I didn't really think I wanted to go this year when I read the programme but gave it a chance and enjoyed even more acts than previously.

For me, take away Fairport (whoever they may be) and you make this just any old festival.

Actually if all this is in anyway coherent we could have a pretty good festival even if the members of Fairport were too frail to play.

That'll give us a year or two yet I hope.

[MarkC]

A lot of the big bands from the 1940s are still going strong over here with no original members. I recently saw the Benny Goodman Orchestra and they were fantastic...maintaining the traditions of the original band.

I don't see any reason why Fairport couldn't do the same thing.

[Linda Watkins]

It's not just Fairport members who are subject to the ageing process - the audience is sure to change as time passes.... None of us are getting younger either.  How much will that affect the festival?

I think that bringing in such an eclectic mix of musicians is very cleverly helping to ensure the longevity of the event and as such I think a festival that celebrates the memory of a great band could be just as magical as the 'real thing' we currently enjoy.  It's a case of is the glass half full or half empty - I know how much there is in my pint pot!

To the future...long may the music continue!

[red max]

I don't think it has to be a case of original members. Didn't Renaissance's second album feature a completely different lineup to the first? Yet this was the version of the band most people would regard as the genuine article. Perhaps it's to do with "serving in the trenches"? Peggy's long tenure with the band maybe qualifies him as Fairport's definitive bassist in the same way Martin Barre is Tull's definitive guitarist, but it's probably true that the band could carry on without him. Tull could also carry on without Martin, but it'd be a diluted and devalued band. I suppose it's all about singers, though, and without Simon Fairport would surely be hovering uncomfortably close to being an endorsed tribute act, would "Fairport Convention" be a brand or a band?

Sorry if this is drifting off topic, and it's not my intention to annoy anyone with these ramblings, I just find the issues of identity and continuity interesting.

[Bob Barrows]

I don't think it has to be a case of original members. Didn't Renaissance's second album feature a completely different lineup to the first? Yet this was the version of the band most people would regard as the genuine article. Perhaps it's to do with "serving in the trenches"? Peggy's long tenure with the band maybe qualifies him as Fairport's definitive bassist in the same way Martin Barre is Tull's definitive guitarist, but it's probably true that the band could carry on without him. Tull could also carry on without Martin, but it'd be a diluted and devalued band. I suppose it's all about singers, though, and without Simon Fairport would surely be hovering uncomfortably close to being an endorsed tribute act, would "Fairport Convention" be a brand or a band?

Sorry if this is drifting off topic, and it's not my intention to annoy anyone with these ramblings, I just find the issues of identity and continuity interesting.

Nah! Martin can be replaced! The only one who really can't be replaced is Ian ... sure, they could probably find someone who sounds like him ... but the songwriting genius would be very hard to replace (yeh- I can hear the detractors who say that piece has been missing for decase ... I just don't agree with them - the audience has changed, not the author)

[red max]

True, but it's hard to imagine a more pivotal figure in a band than Ian Anderson. To most people he IS Jethro Tull.

Fairport, though, are almost the complete opposite. By the mid-70s there was no one left in the band who'd been there from the start, but songs like Rosie and the Hexamshire Lass are still viewed as highpoints.

The thing is, though, that when Fairport play Matty Groves you know Simon was there when they recorded it. Okay, he didn't sing it, but he was there. If they play Sloth you know Peggy played on the original recording. He didn't write it, but he was there. If these guys were no longer in the group, would that thread of continuity still be felt?

We all know that Ashley, Richard and Swarb heartily approve of Fairport's continued existence without them, but I get the feeling that without Simon the band would have crossed a line and become something fundamentally different.

Anyway, I don't think this is a likely scenario for some time to come, more power to their elbows.

[Malcolm]

At least two current members have sons who are musicians.......

[Andy]

..and another one has a daughter who is a musician....