What is/was Fairport's influence in folk/rock music

[Neil]

After watching the Bellowhead debate I was wondering what do people consider Fairport's influence.

Did it all really end after the first few albums or are they still a dynamic band creating new and cutting edge albums.

Is their influence really in the people who left with Sandy, RT and Ashley's output post Fairport being more important than the band that spawned them?

Have they become the elder statesman of folk rock helping new bands to gain recognition or a stagnant institution reliving the glories of the past?

Is it really that Fairport's continuing contribution and influence is the Cropredy festival and all that goes with it.

[Big Dave]

I am at work at the moment and time only permits short answers to what could become an intriguing debate, but here goes....

After watching the Bellowhead debate I was wondering what do people consider Fairport's influence.

Did it all really end after the first few albums or are they still a dynamic band creating new and cutting edge albums.

No it never ended, they are still a dynamic band, although it could be argued not cutting edge albums (but that is a matter of personal taste) but surely in the sense of a constantly evolving style

Is their influence really in the people who left with Sandy, RT and Ashley's output post Fairport being more important than the band that spawned them?

No, the ones listed have made significant contributions to music but they are no more important than Fairport

Have they become the elder statesman of folk rock helping new bands to gain recognition or a stagnant institution reliving the glories of the past?

Certainly not stagnat and yes most certainly giving a "leg up" for new bands and artists (TTL, the Young Folk award winners etc)

Is it really that Fairport's continuing contribution and influence is the Cropredy festival and all that goes with it.

For me Fairport define Cropredy as it stands, if Cropredy is to be Fairport's defining influence then I would argue that that is a significant contribution to music and music lovers in its own right.

[Jules Gray]

Taking your points one at a time...

I don't think it ended after their first few albums, but those were the records cut when the band were at their most innovative, finding new directions and seeing where they could go.  There's less exploration and risk taking with the band since they reformed in the wake of Cropredy's success - it's become more of a continuation of the 'old firm'.  This isn't unusual - it's the norm for the fire to burn a little lower as one gets older.

So, yes, I do think Fairport have embraced the 'elder statesman' role, and are now comfortable with ploughing a familiar furrow.  With Sandy and Richard long gone, they lack a songwriting talent that would help shape their current sound in new and interesting ways.  The band can't bend to the material.  So we find them taking on songs that fit the sound they already have.  I don't think they've quite reached stagnation yet, but they have clearly settled for being less remarkable.

Cropredy is surely the most notable of the current Fairport's influences, but the ongoing reawakening to folk and folk-rock music continues to draw on the influence of the band, both historic and contemporary.

Many elder statesman artsists have elected in recent years to prove themselves over.  The "Rick Rubin" template, if you will.  I think Fairport would do themselves proud if they were to consider looking hard at what made them great in their halcyon days, and bringing it to the current band in order that they may reclaim their title as the greatest folk-rock band in the world.

Jules

[GubGub (Al)]

The band can't bend to the material.  So we find them taking on songs that fit the sound they already have.  I don't think they've quite reached stagnation yet, but they have clearly settled for being less remarkable.

I think Fairport would do themselves proud if they were to consider looking hard at what made them great in their halcyon days, and bringing it to the current band in order that they may reclaim their title as the greatest folk-rock band in the world.

An interesting and astute observation and one with which I find myself nodding in agreement.

[Pat Helms]

I guess this is going to sound a bit cynical (I'm nursing a stubborn little hangover) - but, if they were to reclaim themselves as the greatest folk rock band in the world, who (besides the relatively few of us) would actually care?  Few took notice when they were hitting their stride during a time when rock music was at the peak of its influence. If now, they could create the most incredible album in the band's career, would the present industry or pop culture even take notice?  Very unlikely.

If by "glories", we are talking about excellent album reviews - fine.  But if "glories" mean actual success in building a large fan-base, selling copious amounts of records, and having a Saturday morning cartoon show with the band members fighting the evil Dr. Strangely Strange - I don't know how they'll be able to pull off a return to something that never happened.

I say:  

They're doing their own thing.  They hope people will like it, but they choose to like it themselves, first.  They look healthy and dress their age.  They have a small but loyal group of fans, who appear to be fairly intelligent and generally behave themselves.  

They're set.  

Life's pretty good.  

Stay the course.    

[Jim]

I guess this is going to sound a bit cynical (I'm nursing a stubborn little hangover) - but, if they were to reclaim themselves as the greatest folk rock band in the world, who (besides the relatively few of us) would actually care?  Few took notice when they were hitting their stride during a time when rock music was at the peak of its influence. If now, they could create the most incredible album in the band's career, would the present industry or pop culture even take notice?  Very unlikely.

If by "glories", we are talking about excellent album reviews - fine.  But if "glories" mean actual success in building a large fan-base, selling copious amounts of records, and having a Saturday morning cartoon show with the band members fighting the evil Dr. Strangely Strange - I don't know how they'll be able to pull off a return to something that never happened.

I say:  

They're doing their own thing.  They hope people will like it, but they choose to like it themselves, first.  They look healthy and dress their age.  They have a small but loyal group of fans, who appear to be fairly intelligent and generally behave themselves.  

They're set.  

Life's pretty good.  

Stay the course.    

quality post, says it all really

[Big Dave]

Well said Willey spoken like true FC fan

[Jules Gray]

Well said Willey spoken like true FC fan

Despite my earlier post, I don't disagree with the sentiments expressed myself.

Jules

[PL (Peter)]

I guess this is going to sound a bit cynical (I'm nursing a stubborn little hangover) - but, if they were to reclaim themselves as the greatest folk rock band in the world, who (besides the relatively few of us) would actually care?  Few took notice when they were hitting their stride during a time when rock music was at the peak of its influence. If now, they could create the most incredible album in the band's career, would the present industry or pop culture even take notice?  Very unlikely.

If by "glories", we are talking about excellent album reviews - fine.  But if "glories" mean actual success in building a large fan-base, selling copious amounts of records, and having a Saturday morning cartoon show with the band members fighting the evil Dr. Strangely Strange - I don't know how they'll be able to pull off a return to something that never happened.

I say:  

They're doing their own thing.  They hope people will like it, but they choose to like it themselves, first.  They look healthy and dress their age.  They have a small but loyal group of fans, who appear to be fairly intelligent and generally behave themselves.  

They're set.  

Life's pretty good.  

Stay the course.      
 
 

That`s it. Fully agree.
Thanks for expressing it so concisely.

Peter

[Jack O Diamonds]

Very interesting discussion. Both wileytown and familyjules make really thought-provoking points.

Fairport Convention's influence is clearly rooted in the 1968-70 period, primarily in just one year, 1969. In terms of legacy that's it. Prior to that it was searching for identity, Byrd-watching; after that it was "defined". That influence was massive. There are those who would cite Sweeney's Men as a key early influence on the future of what has become known as "Electric Folk Rock"; I love Andy Irvine and the lads but Fairport's influence in this incredibly short timeframe was immeasurably greater. They are synonymous with "Electric Folk Rock" in a way that no-one else can be - including Steeleye Span and the fulcrum is Ashley Hutchings.

Cropredy is a different achievement, one that does not have to rely on incremental "influence". Unlike in 1968-69 (say) you are not going to get many bands coming to Cropredy to soak up the latest hip sounds, but it remains one of the most sustained cultural/music events in music history. Great achievement... Simon Nicol ending up in an institution (joke)!

But Cropredy doesn't interest me so much as familyjules's "Rick Rubin" comment. I saw the original Pentangle lineup in Brighton earlier this year and they were very good: sharp, clearly very rehearsed and musically very, very strong. For this to "work" in FC's case, however, it has to deal with the "problem" of continuity - FC didn't (well not really) split in 1978... So instead of a Fairport Convention reunion after many years ("Rick Rubined"/focused on a classic - highly influential - catalogue and period) we get "good old Fairport".... cosy, unchallenging, safe, regular, family-oriented.... nothing necessarily "wrong" there, but hardly "influential" or "exciting".

Actually I think FC had its "Pentangle" moment back in 1981 when the Full House line up got together again (great, great nights at the Half Moon) and when Ashley Hutchings turned up again (1983 ish)...

No major conclusion... Fairport's early influence was pivotal and - in its own British way - as important as The Byrds (etc). Currently there is virtually no "influence" and maybe there is no need for such a thing anyway...

But I do wonder what a "Rick Rubined" FC would involve!

[davidmjs]

cosy, unchallenging, safe, regular, family-oriented.... nothing necessarily "wrong" there, but hardly "influential" or "exciting".

Which just about sums up most of Mr Cash's 80's and early 90's output...before Mr Rubin knocked on his door.

[Rory.]

cosy, unchallenging, safe, regular, family-oriented.... nothing necessarily "wrong" there, but hardly "influential" or "exciting".

Which just about sums up most of Mr Cash's 80's and early 90's output...before Mr Rubin knocked on his door.

So many people see Joaquin Phoenix's face in their mind's eye when they think of Johnny Cash, and so many only listen to the American Recordings series and think that his only worthwhile output was a couple of prison records before that ...... it's a shame really, they're missing a lot.


Sorry mods, I know it's off topic - do as you will.

[David W]

I kind of agree with JoD as to the most influential era being that amazing year of '69 though into '70 - and also that recent stuff seems a bit safe in comparison.

However, on this board alone we have a number of young musicians and folk fans who - when asked for their favourite FC tracks, the stuff that really got them into the band in the first place - cite the recent era as their influence.Who is to say some of these youngsters won't go on to keep the flame burning and through them what infleunce the current Fairport may have.

David W

[Malcolm]

I kind of agree with JoD as to the most influential era being that amazing year of '69 though into '70 - and also that recent stuff seems a bit safe in comparison.

However, on this board alone we have a number of young musicians and folk fans who - when asked for their favourite FC tracks, the stuff that really got them into the band in the first place - cite the recent era as their influence.Who is to say some of these youngsters won't go on to keep the flame burning and through them what infleunce the current Fairport may have.

David W

It's interesting that the songs from the past rise up again when you least expect them - Reynardine (who would have thought 10 years ago that Chris Leslie would sing that again, or so well?; Polly on the Shore on the latest CD - 20 years ago Simon's voice wouldn't have done justice to it (Ralph sang it as a special guest one year) but his deeper voice now certainly does. The Leige & Leif set by Chris While.

There are others, but if the new generation are being influenced by the later CDs, what better way for them to be encouraged to explore back into the catalogue. It is surely the public that count, more than FC's influence on other groups etc

(Hope that all makes sense - feeling joyously philosophical on this bright Winter's day

[MarkC]

I think their current influence is probably rooted in the Cropredy/Indie business model...which I would guess is likely far stronger than their early musical influence.

For me, as a professional musician, their strongest influence was certainly the "Nine" line up...Jerry Donahue in particular (I didn't even hear Liege and Leaf until several years later, and have never much cared for it). As a listener, I greatly prefer the post-1985 line ups...but I admit they haven't been as much of an influence on my own playing, or probably too many other's.

For the world at large (and especially Britain), I have no idea...although I suspect the Byrds and The Band's "Music from Big Pink" probably guided more musicians in that folk/rock direction than anyone else could have ever hoped to. Yes? No?

Whatever, I love Fairport Convention and hope they continue on for many years to come.

[Paolo]

Hi, I just would like to add that FC were influential even in challenging other band to do different - For instance, Ian telfer of Oyster Band declared precisely that in folk rock scene the influece of FC was so strong that they felt compelled to search different solutions, above all in rhytm section

best

P

[Mr Cat (Lewis)]

I agree with much of what has been said above.  The fact that bands like Fleet Foxes mention FC shows that the band, meaning the late 60's combo, continues to have influence today.  This is no different from many other acts of the same era - when modern acts name check Ray Davies etc, they generally are referring to the "classic" eras of those acts, not the last Davies solo CD (good as that was)..

[Andy]

With the first track of their first album, "Time Will Show the Wiser", Fairport took a leap toward a musical freedom that was complemented by Liege and Lief and cemented by Unhalfbricking and "What We Did On Our Holidays".

Fairport Convention showed that there was another way, that there was no need to completely abandon the folk traditions of the UK and the meld between old and modern could be compelling and successful.

That the early fame was developed into fiscal success was no accident. The febrile brains inside the band knew that as long as they skated on the thin ice between commercialism and tradition, they'd be able to successfully continue. In fact many an indie band has sought to pursue this model - witness the Decemberists' attempts to walk this path.

That they have parlayed their early success into a continuing revenue stream has showed younger bands how to develop the business model. Cropredy is an example to many other bands of how to make a career out of a yearly summit plus some touring and the odd album.

[billy]

Exactly

[Anna]

...how to make a career out of a yearly summit plus some touring and the odd album.

You make that sound so easy Andy!