Hancocks Chatter

[Nick]

The Hancocks 2009  


The Talkawhile Awards for Folk Music

Please use this thread to talk about the Hancock Awards in general.

Cheers!

[YaBB Master (Colin)]

The question has come up again as to what is a traditional song.

Is it simply that a song is listed as 'trad. arr.' and has no named author?
How about if it is out of copyright (75 years after the authors death).

Both of these would rule out the current Rudyard Kipling proposal.
Any better ideas?
So what do we go with?

[Bob Barrows]

Both of these criteria would have eliminated White Hare a couple of years ago, which many would have probably considered to be a good thing.

I'm leaning toward the adoption of both criteria: if a song is in the public domain, it should qualify.

[Bob Barrows]

I hope this isn't a transgression but I thought this to be a broader topic that would get better discussion here.

(is that a good enough reason or do I have to talk bollix about the production qualities and harmonic doo-dahs?)

That depends on what people have written for the other nominations. The more eloquent the proposals the more favourably they will be considered.
Cheers
Nick

What if you can't do eloquent - isn't that being just a bit elitist? Does it mean you only consider nominations from the more educated amongst us?

We run into this every year, and Colin has never bent on this, even faced with the same argument you've just presented. I'm somewhat in agreement with you Bridgwit, but the reality is that nominations that are backed up well will probably be more likely to be accepted than those that aren't.
I would like to propose a compromise: instead of simply rejecting a concise nomination*, add the criterion that if someone else seconds it and provides adequate support it, that it be considered. Simply a reverse of the current flowery-nomination-followed-by-terse-seconding process.
What do you think?

* which is what happened last year when several terse nominations were abruptly deleted from the threads

[Bridgwit (Bridget)]

Sorry I think I probably posted in haste.    

I accept that it's not enough to just give the name of the Artist and the song/album etc, everyone expects a bit more than that. What seems to happen now is that someone puts forward a reasonable argument and others second/third it etc, adding their own bit if they wish. I see no reason for this to alter. I was just a bit concerned that someone who wasn't very good at getting their point across (which is looking increasing to be me!) wouldn't have their nomination considered.

I'm sure all the right nominations will go forward and I understand there has to be a restriction in the numbers too.

Maybe you could open a few premium rate phone lines for the voting......  

[Nick]

It's really all about effort. The writing doesn't have to be flowery or precise, it just has to suggest that the writer has thought about their choice and believes in it - that they have not simply handed out a flippant "yeah, me too".

And it's not just for the proposers and seconders to say why they are nominating someone. Everyone should try to give a reason! It might help to think of things from the judges' point of view: Suppose you end up with two candidates, both have 5 posts in their favour. One candidate has 5 people who've said nothing more than "yeah, vote for them", the other candidate has 5 people who've each given a good, valid and thoughtful reason why the decision should go their way. Which would you pick?

There is a chance for everyone to make their "me too" posts later on. After all, votes are simply a tick in a box that says "my choice". So, while we're picking who to vote for, it's only right that we should be prepared to talk about our choices and to say why.

Cheers

Nick

[Sir Robert Peel]

It would also be really, really helpful if proposers, seconders or Metoo'ers supplied the Youtube, Myspace or website linking to the artist or song.

In that way, voters can have direct and timely access to the nominees.  

Personally speaking,  I'm more inclined to give the nominee due cosideration and attention if I can just click on a link, rather than having to seek out the beggar myself.  

[brianleach]

Not that I have a problem with this but the nominations so far don't appear to be a million miles away from the BBC Folk Awards 2009 or am I wrong?

Brian

[jude]

Not that I have a problem with this but the nominations so far don't appear to be a million miles away from the BBC Folk Awards 2009 or am I wrong?

Brian

I think you might need to read this bit Brian

http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?topic=29839.0

It explains how the Hancocks work and how they are sort of linked to the BBC ones

[brianleach]

Thanks for pointing me to that Jude.

I guess I was expecting them to be different giving the generally hostile reception the announcement of the BBC nominations received here.

Brian

[martin driver]

May I say, it would greatly help retain the validity and worth of the Hancocks, if we can somehow encourage members of this community to avoid the almost zenophobic habit of proposing on an annual basis, various members of the extended Fairport family for an award.
If we fail to avoid this scenario, we may as well present a trophy cabinet whilst we are at it, then those multi award recipients will have a ready made place to display the full set.
I too am a fan of all things FC but recognise there are many other excellent musicians out there, playing the music we like.

So my humble request is for folks to expand their horizons, this will in my view, keep a treasured Hancock award a thing of beauty, that all musicians will be proud and honoured to win.

[Nick]

Thanks for pointing me to that Jude.

I guess I was expecting them to be different giving the generally hostile reception the announcement of the BBC nominations received here.

Brian

That's part of the idea, Brian,

You are free to propose alternatives to the BBC nominations and we encourage it. We always guarentee space for at least one alternative, by having at one more nomination in each category. Then, if people are persausive enough, other BBC nominations can be rejected in favour of our own choices.

All you've got to do is make your nominations and say why you nominate them.

Cheers

Nick

[Sir Robert Peel]

May I say, it would greatly help retain the validity and worth of the Hancocks, if we can somehow encourage members of this community to avoid the almost zenophobic habit of proposing on an annual basis .... etc.

Well said, Martin.  

I happen to think that the Radio 2 nominees, in all the categories, are the right ones.  

[Rory.]

I'd nominate Mr Martin Driver if there was an appropriate category, well said, Sir.

I've got a nomination brewing, it's a wee bit contentious given that the person has been away from the scene for a bit. I've not got it nailed yet, I've a big day to get out of the way first, but I shall be back.

I'm thinking of a good egg. I'm thinking of influence and what legacy this person has left to those who are active now, I'm thinking of a very stylised performance, one which lead a leading light to describe this person as the best of their generation.

No names, no pack drill.  

[Ollie]

If it's the person that I think you're going to nominate, go ahead, cos they definately deserve an award for the massive influence they've had on so many, after being off the scene for so many years.

[Nick]

Ok, I've put a quick summary into each of the topics to show who's been nominated and seconded so far and what sort of volume of comments have been made.

There's still time for more nominations and still some proposals to be seconded. There's also time for more comments for and against each of the proposals.

Remember though, in the end it will be the quality of the comments that will sway the decisions: a well thought out and reasoned response will be worth more than any number of "me too!" posts ...

Cheers

Nick

[Jules Gray]

I was just thinking about the arguments for and against my nomination of a 38 year odl Fotheringay track for best trad song of the year.

It occured to me that it might be an idea to start a new category next year for best reissue/archival release.  Any thoughts?

Jules

[Shelley]

I've found the summaries very useful Nick - I'm going to do a personal one so I can keep track of what I've nominated/seconded/supported!



Edit: At this point the nominations closed and voting began

[frogcrutches]

I often wonder what Carey would vote for.
Apart from some fiddle botherer.
I know that he loved music, and was passionate about it, but, who would he vote for?

[Bridgwit (Bridget)]

I didn't know him   but from what I've read of his humour and warmth, I reckon he'd love 3 Daft Monkeys - a pretty lady also a great fiddle player, some fine gentlemen and a good time to be had by all.