Hancocks Chatter

[Jules Gray]

I still think a "Best Archival Release/Reissue" category would be a welcome addition.

Jules

[YaBB Master (Colin)]

Voting closes at lunch to next Monday (2nd Feb)

I'm delighted to see that the number of votes and people viewing the awards is well up on last year.  
Also there are some very close votes, with quite a few new contenders in with a good chance. So even if you think your favorite will lose out to more famous competition, your vote might well make all the difference.

[Rory.]

Okay Sir Robert, I read into that that you know who Geetee is

Since he has said he was not trying to keep it secret or be coy, there is no reason not to let you know that geetee is Gareth Turner's nickname in real life.  

Bob, I think I missed this post because of the cool "Vote, Vote Vote", picture in Colin's post, so my apologies for not replying sooner. Yes I've since learned the identity of GeeTee, and I hope I didn't rub him up the wrong way, so to speak, I stand by what I said, but I fully admit my post was unfairly directed at him.

I remain concerned that the votes (or at least the ones being posted about) are not exactly following the ideals in the tag line "not the R2 folk awards". Now I'm sure the Hancocks mean different things to different people. It can be a way to say "Thankyou" to artists who have given much musical pleasure over a number of years, to tell then how much we appreciate their work, and that is a laudable aim. OR, it could be a way to say, look R2/Cambridge audiences, there is a lot more out there than you are being shown. This involves all of us doing the detective work and reporting back here in the form of gig reviews, youtube links and general "bigging up" of acts that are not well known in the folk/trad/roots scene. It's about being a participant, not just a consumer, the folk scene is unique in that the audience is as big a part of the scene as the artists, even more so with the advent of places like TAW.

I know you do your bit, Bob, with the podcast thingummyjigger and I salute you for that.

I, for one, will be looking beyond the familiar for next year's Hancocks.

[Sir Robert Peel]

I second all that Rory has said.

While I consider myself a huge fan of anything involving Spiers and Boden and Fairport and the Oysterband and anybody vaguely connected with them, I'm disappointed to see that our combined wealth and breadth of taste and experience salutes such a shrinking range of artists.  It wasn't what we envisaged when we embarked on 'Not the Radio 2 Folk Awards'.  Back then, we highlighted 'the people's choice', rather than the vested interests of the appointees on the Radio Two Folk Award panel.  It caused quite a stir at the time.

I urge you to look again at your votes.  Consider, if you will, removing your vote from your favourite artist and The Usual Suspects if:
- you only voted for them because you've always been a fan and
- you don't know or haven't seen or heard the other artists/albums in the category

In that way, we might be able to kick some life into this contest and salute newer acts.

[Bob Barrows]

It's a little late for that isn't it? The "conditions of contest" pretty much ensure that only those artists we feel passionate enough about to produce paragraphs of eloquent support are the ones that appear in the selection lists. Is it really surprising that only those artists with passionate fans are among the selections? And the lesser known artists, the ones about whom no one can be eloquent, are the ones left aside ...

[Shelley]

I was thinking about this earlier and I think the only way round it would be to ignore the BBC lists altogether and only nominate acts who weren't on the BBC's lists.  Just an idea.

[davidmjs]

Personally I think we should have an intitial nomination vote from a 'longlist', and I think the 2 votes is some sections is entirely misguided...as is the ability to recast your vote.  Just imho of course...

[YaBB Master (Colin)]

A simple approach would be to extend the time (currently two years) where an artist is disqualified if they have previously won a Hancock in that category. This includes nominations from the BBC list.

This would have to vary with category, for example 'Good Egg' can only be won once, but 'Best Album' may be allowed if people put a really strong case that it is better than their previous winner.

If we didn't use the BBC list at all, I suspect all categories would be 'the usual suspects'.
Having a 'long list' vote would again just bring the bigger fan bases to the top. I think the current system is fair, but could be expanded. The short list was selected using a new set of rules, mostly devised by Bob Barrows and Sandra. It will be a good basis for next year.
(Basically 2 points for or against for a reasoned nomination, one point for a 'me to'. Only one post counted per person, per nomination and it had to be on topic for the award.)

[Sandra]

I second all that Rory has said.

While I consider myself a huge fan of anything involving Spiers and Boden and Fairport and the Oysterband and anybody vaguely connected with them, I'm disappointed to see that our combined wealth and breadth of taste and experience salutes such a shrinking range of artists.  It wasn't what we envisaged when we embarked on 'Not the Radio 2 Folk Awards'.  Back then, we highlighted 'the people's choice', rather than the vested interests of the appointees on the Radio Two Folk Award panel.  It caused quite a stir at the time.

I urge you to look again at your votes.  Consider, if you will, removing your vote from your favourite artist and The Usual Suspects if:
- you only voted for them because you've always been a fan and
- you don't know or haven't seen or heard the other artists/albums in the category

In that way, we might be able to kick some life into this contest and salute newer acts.

I have to say to you, Sir Bob, good points, well made.

As you say, when we first introduced the awards they were (briefly) known as the 'Not The Radio 2 Folk Awards'. We called them that because we were fed up with the same narrow group of favoured people being nominated and winning each year, and did not think that they reflected the broader aspects of the folk world, and yet here we are, a few years down the line, being in exactly the same boat.

Colin has made some good suggestions and I would agree with them. Lets ditch the BBC list and have all of the nominations our own, based on what we have experienced rather than heresay and propaganda publicity blurbs.

The Hancocks would then genuinely be the voice of Talkawhile and the BBC awards left behind forever.

I would also encourage people to think outside the box and not just vote for the same people over and over again. For example, much as I love Bellowhead they have not been the strongest performers I have seen/heard this year in some categories, and therefore I have not voted for them.

If you have not seen (even if it's on YouTube) or heard at least all of the artists in each catgory you have voted for then I urge you to do so. You might find some unexpected surprises.

[Jules Gray]

Lets ditch the BBC list and have all of the nominations our own

I agree wholeheartedly with that.  In fact, I can't believe it's not already the case.

Jules

[Sir Robert Peel]

Lets ditch the BBC list and have all of the nominations our own

I agree wholeheartedly with that.  In fact, I can't believe it's not already the case.

Jules

I disagree strongly.  Arguably, the BBC shortlist is spot on.

For instance - let's take the example of Mawkin-Causley in the Best Group category.  We, at Talkawhile, have been reporting on the emergence of this fine band for some time.  We, at Talkawhile, were the first reviewers of that band's collaboration with the esteemed Jim Causley.  Their fan base isn't as big as some of the other bands on the shortlist and they don't have a record company, publicists and pluggers to support - so they probably only have an outside chance of winning the coveted Radio Two title.

If the Talkawhile nominees hadn't featured, then Mawcausley would have been strong contenders as the People's Choice.  

The Oysterband (or Bellowhead) are strong favourites to win this section, as far as Talkawhile members are concerned.  What does that say about the Hancocks?  Does it not suggest that we tend to favour an old favourite rather than an upcoming band working hard to build a following?    

This year the Radio Two panel has come up with a wide range of artists, new names and younger faces.  Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of our list. There has been a complete reversal is what the Hancocks are about.     

[Anne Dunn]

I agree Sir Bob,

To follow on from your example,  Oysterband have been my favourite band for over 10 years.

But last year, Mawkin:Causley were absolutely excellent, and every time I saw them they were better than the time before. They have worked their socks off and are such nice guys too.

I shall be disappointed if the Oysterband win the Hancock award, for all the reasons being put forward.

[Sandra]

I wasn't suggesting ditching the BBC list and not allowing any of their nominees on our list, just that we don't use their list as a starting  point.

I agree that we will probably end up with some, if not many, of the same nominees for each award, but with possibly a bit wider spread than we have now. I am sure Mawkin Causley would have been on the Hancocks list, whereas other BBC nominees might not have been. It is apparent in the discussion of who the TAW nominee in each category should be that we have a broad appreciation of music on this board, and I just feel this should be reflected in the nominations.

As you yourself say, Sir Bob, we at TAW are good at spotting a good thing very early on. Perhaps the BBC are onto us;D

Long mat be champion up and coming bands, but lets not fall into the trap of becoming predictable. Colin's suggestion of extending the exclusion of an act in any given category to two years would, I think, help achieve that aim.

[GubGub (Al)]

This is a fascinating debate and I certainly don't have any answers. I am one of those who is not familiar with a lot of the music nominated this year and some of what I am familiar with I don't particularly like but two thoughts do occur to me, arising from the comments of others:

If we didn't use the BBC list at all, I suspect all categories would be 'the usual suspects'.

I'm not so sure. For example. This board is very Fairport centric but how often do the Fairporters actually get nominated even from the floor? Yes, I know Simon won last year, and for good reason but they clearly don't get the nod by default and that means to me that we are clearly not just falling back on old favourites.

The Oysterband are strong favourites to win this section, as far as Talkawhile members are concerned.  What does that say about the Hancocks?  Does it not suggest that we tend to favour an old favourite rather than an upcoming band working hard to build a following?    
  

Not necessarily. I am one of those who nominated the Oysters this year in a very specific category (not across the board) because I thought their achievements in their anniversary year, alongside some of the strongest live shows of their career, deserved recognition. Like many of the acts that we discuss here, we may regard the Oysters as perennials but they are largely unknown in the wider world and people mostly look mystified when I talk about them. Even here I wonder whether familiarity actually breeds contempt? The Oysters are familiar to us but have they ever actually won an award? The same applies to other acts. It seems churlish to complain about the inclusion of our favourite artists if we do not actually ever recognise them.

Incidentally, is there a Roll of Honour anywhere so we can see who has won the awards in the past?

[Shelley]

Dear me, what have I started - it was only a thought!

Incidentally, is there a Roll of Honour anywhere so we can see who has won the awards in the past?

That, I would love to see.

[madsue]

OK, only a newbie, but am following these awards with interest, and have voted.......but only voted in the categories where I have either seen the bands nominated, or know their music.  The others I am keeping away from!  Having said that, why today can I see the percentage of votes for each nominee in each category, whereas I couldn't before?  Seems daft to me to show them now? Anyone explain that to me please?



Edit:  

[madsue]

  Errmm?  Why the rolley eyes??

[YaBB Master (Colin)]

  Errmm?  Why the rolley eyes??

I think that was Nick. I suspect that you could see the results because of an incorrect 'permission'.

[madsue]

  Thanks Colin!!!!  Can't see them this morning!

[YaBB Master (Colin)]

Nick's not about, so I'll dive in and do a voting roundup.   (Look in the polls)