Puzzled

[Gilp]

This may well have been discussed before,but being new to this lovely site it is fitting that I bring it up here,because I truly don't understand it.
Yesterday I was in my local 'real' Record Shop.  I came across a Fairport Convention Double Album I had never heard of before......called Fairport Convention-The Classic Collection.  And classic it is.
However one thing has struck me mighty hard.
Disc 2 starts with a song called Western Wind...which starts off with what appears to be  the use of Dylans 'Lie in my bed once again'........it also finishes with that refrain.  However The Real Song is sandwiched between these two and it is,word for word Robert Burns song Westlin' Winds. However neither get any credits, it being attributed to Trad,arranged by F.C.
Now I know Dylan has done that with 'melodies' before but only once to my knowledge,with an entire song (Angel Flying to close to the ground,by W.Nelson).
So anybody throw any light on this......and when it was recorded.beautifully done but a bit dodgy I think.

[Chris]

Record Label / details please?

[KascadeDan]

I have that CD, I was a bit confused too. It seemed to me more just like a selection of Fairport Favourites

[Red Shoes (Caz+Mark)]

Hi don't know if this is of help. The classic collection was released in Apr 24, 2006. it spans both live and studio recordings from 1974-2002. I gather Western Wind is a trad song and arrangments by FC. As for Bob, I think he's known to use the odd line from other material and repeat it in other songs. Lie in my bed appears in Tomorrow is a Long time as well. Hope i got all this right?
Carolyn

[Anji]

I'm puzzled  

so are you saying it was Dylan who wrote the Western Wind Mass, and not John Taverner?  

[Red Shoes (Caz+Mark)]

Sorry, don't think I explained myself very well,

"Christ, that my love were in my arms,
And I in my bed again."

By Taverner classed as trad . . . . . Dylan uses these words as well, but modernises, . What i meant to say was, it's a trad song (not by Dylan) FC do an arrangement of the Trad version, and Dylan takes the lines from the trad song itself. It's called artistic licence when dealing with trad songs, it's difficult for the MCPS/PRS to quantify this as can be seen below. Both artistes in question are using it to create wonderful songs of their own.

Below is taken from the MCPS-PRS site:
Copyright Transcriptions Of Folk Music
Copyright in the transcription of folk music has always been a bit of a grey area. Copyright law states that if you write down a traditional song, this transcription becomes a copyright work. The copyright lies in the transcription and not in the traditional song.

This means the transcription is copyright. It may not be copied, reproduced, published, publicly performed or adapted unless permission is obtained from the transcriber. However, this does not prevent people from transcribing from the same source. By doing this they create their own copyright - even if their transcription is note for note the same as an exisiting transcription.

Phew, that's taken it out of me .. .  

Carolyn (my brain aches now!)    

[Aquamarine]

Just as an aside, Dylan has always skated very close to the line.  Example being 'Rolling and Tumbling' "by Bob Dylan," on Modern Times.  Admittedly, it has about 23 extra verses.  

[martin driver]

Disc 2 starts with a song called Western Wind...which starts off with what appears to be  the use of Dylans 'Lie in my bed once again'........it also finishes with that refrain.  However The Real Song is sandwiched between these two and it is,word for word Robert Burns song Westlin' Winds. However neither get any credits, it being attributed to Trad,arranged by F.C.

So anybody throw any light on this......and when it was recorded.beautifully done but a bit dodgy I think.

It is a great song I agree Gilp, certainly when Fairport perform it live, which they do quite frequently, Simon in his introduction invariably gives the Baird a name check.
As to when or where this particular version of the song was recorded, I have no idea but if you are attending any of the Fairport winter tour gigs, they venture north of the border in late February, I suggest you collar Ric or Peggy and ask.

[Dan O.]

I have this compilation cd too (The Classic Collection...pretty good but a mixed bunch), the track referred to in this thread is "Western Winds" recorded by the current FC lineup in 2000 on "The Wood and the Wire" album available from the shop on the FC website.

[Gilp]

Thanks to all who replied...................I have ascertained that 'lie in my bed again' is from a C16th poem.anon I think but it might be Wyatt.  The entire 'middle is Burns Westlin Winds and thanks for telling me about the name check Martin..though I doubt Burns would have enjoyed being called Scotlands Baird ,there are mony aboot.
Dylan does indeed  fly close to the water but,in the tradition of genius he enhances what he siezes upon.
I shall, as Martin suggests,ask Peggy and co when they cross The Border.
Now the hunt is on to find a Copy of Wood and Wire which seems quite rare.
Again thanks.my Faith in FC continues and I have exonerated my Bards....one of whom is buried 200 yards from here.

[Jim]

Thanks to all who replied...................I have ascertained that 'lie in my bed again' is from a C16th poem.anon I think but it might be Wyatt.  The entire 'middle is Burns Westlin Winds and thanks for telling me about the name check Martin..though I doubt Burns would have enjoyed being called Scotlands Baird ,there are mony aboot.
Dylan does indeed  fly close to the water but,in the tradition of genius he enhances what he siezes upon.
I shall, as Martin suggests,ask Peggy and co when they cross The Border.
Now the hunt is on to find a Copy of Wood and Wire which seems quite rare.
Again thanks.my Faith in FC continues and I have exonerated my Bards....one of whom is buried 200 yards from here.

its less than a fiver from amazon marketplace

[PLW (Peter)]

Thanks to all who replied...................I have ascertained that 'lie in my bed again' is from a C16th poem.anon I think but it might be Wyatt.  The entire 'middle is Burns Westlin Winds and thanks for telling me about the name check Martin..though I doubt Burns would have enjoyed being called Scotlands Baird ,there are mony aboot.
Dylan does indeed  fly close to the water but,in the tradition of genius he enhances what he siezes upon.
I shall, as Martin suggests,ask Peggy and co when they cross The Border.
Now the hunt is on to find a Copy of Wood and Wire which seems quite rare.
Again thanks.my Faith in FC continues and I have exonerated my Bards....one of whom is buried 200 yards from here.

You can buy it on the Fairport website

http://www.fairportconvention.com/catalogue.php?cmsCategoryID=9&DisplayType=DisplayCatContents

[Gilp]

Thank you all....that shop is a dangerous place to go.