New Material, New Album?

[Harbottle (Martin)]

Stu Hanna from Megson has done a fine job on the new Show of Hands album.
Well I think so.
Not that I know bugger all about producing, but it sounds good. Fairport have gone a bit Foster and Allen recently.

[MarkC]

Does Joe Boyd still produce?  I wonder what a 21st century pairing of FC and JB would sound like?  

Without somebody bringing solid traditional sources to the table, this is not likely to work either...!

Why?

[parkwood]

Fairport with Boyd worked so well because band members were drawing upon the influence of traditional melodies and ancient ballads. This only currently happens in the odd Leslie-penned number or when the band choose to 're-visit' their back catalogue for release on new studio albums.

Oh, and also the combination of rhythm and lead guitar plus fiddle is far more conducive to producing a rock album....

[jude]

Fairport with Boyd worked so well because band members were drawing upon the influence of traditional melodies and ancient ballads. This only currently happens in the odd Leslie-penned number or when the band choose to 're-visit' their back catalogue for release on new studio albums.

Oh, and also the combination of rhythm and lead guitar plus fiddle is far more conducive to producing a rock album....

Ummm Joe also worked with Fairport before they incorporated any traditional music, and I wouldn't have thought he had any influence on what kind of music they decided to play. That would always be a band decision, not a producers decision.

At least that's what I would have thought..

But I might well be wrong....

[Shane (Skirky)]

I wouldn't have thought he had any influence on what kind of music they decided to play. That would always be a band decision, not a producers decision.

I would suggest that would be one of any decent producer's first jobs. Without knowing the ins and outs of the band politics at the time, Joe Boyd's story of being asked to come down to hear this new song FC had been working on and then deciding it should go on the album led to the appearance of A Sailor's Life on record. Admittedly there are likely to be as many versions of this story as there are protagonists, but that's one take on it. I've also read that one member's recollection of Joe Boyd's producing style was to get on with reading the paper and occasionally nod when asked if something was okay, which doesn't sound like it would necessarily significantly up the quality control on the current band's output. I was very sceptical when I heard that RT's Mock Tudor was going to be produced by a couple of guys who'd worked with Beck, but it proved (IMO) to be a high water mark in his output, so maybe the idea of a leftfield outside influence is a good one. Whether that would be worth the time, effort and expense in the opinion of the band is another matter altogether. I'm guessing they're pretty sure by now what their average sale is going to be, can calculate the margin and then subtract the cost of a 'name' producer versus a likely increase in sales as a result of that collaboration, and then get on the phone to Woodworm again. It's an interesting moot point though, that there should be discussion around whether an outside producer would shake them up a bit rather than where they're going to get some new songs. Although I've got one if they need it.    

[Dan O.]

In terms of production the last few (i.e. CL-era) FC albums all sound wonderful, so this may not be an area in which an independent pair of ears is needed. However, if it is a producer's role to discuss the choice of material recorded (and sometimes it can be), then it would be interesting to have another opinion on board for the next album. Joe Boyd is probably not the answer - all parties having moved on since then in several ways.

[Steve with the black dog]

There must be a great temptation to give the fans what they want.

I was listening to Phil Cool's Maria this morning - the one about Bob Dylan playing stuff the fans didn't like  "and they called him Judas".

Perhaps they should take a couple of months off and listen to something completely different and then come back and write a new album.  Maybe a producer from a completely different genre would kick start a new era.

The problem is whatever the next album, I will buy it.  That can't be much of an incentive to change.

[PLW (Peter)]

Nah, Mr Emmerson is known for throwing big programmed beats and world music into the mix. Whilst this works well for Village, Afros and Hands, it would not work with Fairport.

The Imagined Village isn't like that at all. And he produced that.

[PLW (Peter)]

Fairport with Boyd worked so well because band members were drawing upon the influence of traditional melodies and ancient ballads. This only currently happens in the odd Leslie-penned number or when the band choose to 're-visit' their back catalogue for release on new studio albums.

Oh, and also the combination of rhythm and lead guitar plus fiddle is far more conducive to producing a rock album....

Ummm Joe also worked with Fairport before they incorporated any traditional music, and I wouldn't have thought he had any influence on what kind of music they decided to play. That would always be a band decision, not a producers decision.

At least that's what I would have thought..

But I might well be wrong....

You could be right, Jude. But then what do I know? I'm only a producer.

[parkwood]

Yes folks, producers DO have a definite responsibility for the quality of the musical output of a band. In fact this is usually far more important than technical aspects, in that a good recording engineer will realise the overall concept/feel required by the producer by the way he/she selects and places microphones, structures the sessions etc etc. Often a producer will have limited technical knowledge, but a much better idea of how the music should sit together and the quality of the material put forward for an album.

So the producer steers the band in the right direction if they are verging on MOR, for example..... It is very much the case that the producer should have a huge say on which songs are recorded, which are binned, and what the running order should be. This outside influence is crucial in terms of maintaining standards of quality and striving for something new.

In terms of the most recent Fairport output, I disagree with the recent post saying that the production is wonderful. The use of big gated reverbs, the over-reliance on swapping between vocalists in different octaves mid-song and the mismatch of metre between self penned songs/traditional tunes are just some elements that would leave the discerning listener disappointed.

It's frustrating that it could be so much better with even a little outside input... I'm sure there are many out there in the industry who would jump at the chance of producing them!

[parkwood]

Nah, Mr Emmerson is known for throwing big programmed beats and world music into the mix. Whilst this works well for Village, Afros and Hands, it would not work with Fairport.

The Imagined Village isn't like that at all. And he produced that.

In the current incarnation, that is true... but that was born out of a much more tightly-programmed effort with a multitude of samples. It would be true to say that Simon is very much a 'groove' producer rather than a purveyor of riffs.

And I'm not knocking the Village, by the way... The current line-up is breathtaking live!

[parkwood]

... listen to the Imagined Village EP if in doubt.

This features stripped down versions of some for the songs, with synth basslines, none of the Indian influences and big lo-fi programmed beats.

Whilst the live performance and album don't rely so much on these features, the sequenced elements, repetitive grooves and swept filter effects are a big part of what Simon does. I was just suggesting that this wouldn't sit well with Fairport, since they would always strive for 100% live material in performances.

[MarkC]

In terms of the most recent Fairport output, I disagree with the recent post saying that the production is wonderful. The use of big gated reverbs, the over-reliance on swapping between vocalists in different octaves mid-song and the mismatch of metre between self penned songs/traditional tunes are just some elements that would leave the discerning listener disappointed.

I am a professional musician and have been for 30 years. I would like to think I am "discerning." But I have not been disappointed by Fairport's records since 1985. Quite the opposite. "The 5 Seasons," for example, is a record that, to me, is almost perfectly produced.

Perhaps by "discerning" you meant stuck in the ancient past? Sorry if I sound testy, but your comment suggests that anyone who does not agree with your subjective opinion is less than "discerning." Quite a claim.

[fat Billy(Bill)]

Lets get the album recorded first, then we can all make our minds, I loved wood and the wire but wasn't so keen on over the next hill, so I wait patiently.

[davidmjs]

In terms of the most recent Fairport output, I disagree with the recent post saying that the production is wonderful. The use of big gated reverbs, the over-reliance on swapping between vocalists in different octaves mid-song and the mismatch of metre between self penned songs/traditional tunes are just some elements that would leave the discerning listener disappointed.

I am a professional musician and have been for 30 years. I would like to think I am "discerning." But I have not been disappointed by Fairport's records since 1985. Quite the opposite. "The 5 Seasons," for example, is a record that, to me, is almost perfectly produced.

Perhaps by "discerning" you meant stuck in the ancient past? Sorry if I sound testy, but your comment suggests that anyone who does not agree with your subjective opinion is less than "discerning." Quite a claim.

By the (earliest) time a new record will appear, it will be 20 years since The Five Seasons was released.  

It is always interesting to me how early albums are dissected track by track while the last quarter of a century tend to be taken as one lump.  This is certainly not unique to FC...

For the record, I've been mostly disappointed by Fairport's records since 1990 (Jewel in the Crown is the only one I really rate).  Although there are, of course, tracks on all of the albums that I return to.  But, sadly, the last album left me cold.

[Shane (Skirky)]

But, sadly, the last album left me cold.

I, literally, couldn't give it away.

[James SftBH]

I, literally, couldn't give it away.

And believe me, he tried!  

[MarkC]

Different strokes and all that. I only object to subjective opinions being held up as absolutes.

For me, I genuinely prefer the newer stuff. OK, XXXV was a little lackluster to me (although it definitely had moments). But for my ears, the more seasoned the performer, the more I usually like them. Youthful exuberance is great...just not what I prefer. And living in the past (not a Tull reference) bores me to tears.

[Bob Barrows]

Come on, SoW wasn't a complete waste ... Hawkwood's Army's pretty good innnit?
And I kinda like Untouchable.

[StephenGiles]

In terms of the most recent Fairport output, I disagree with the recent post saying that the production is wonderful. The use of big gated reverbs, the over-reliance on swapping between vocalists in different octaves mid-song and the mismatch of metre between self penned songs/traditional tunes are just some elements that would leave the discerning listener disappointed.

I am a professional musician and have been for 30 years. I would like to think I am "discerning." But I have not been disappointed by Fairport's records since 1985. Quite the opposite. "The 5 Seasons," for example, is a record that, to me, is almost perfectly produced.

Perhaps by "discerning" you meant stuck in the ancient past? Sorry if I sound testy, but your comment suggests that anyone who does not agree with your subjective opinion is less than "discerning." Quite a claim.

By the (earliest) time a new record will appear, it will be 20 years since The Five Seasons was released.  

It is always interesting to me how early albums are dissected track by track while the last quarter of a century tend to be taken as one lump.  This is certainly not unique to FC...

For the record, I've been mostly disappointed by Fairport's records since 1990 (Jewel in the Crown is the only one I really rate).  Although there are, of course, tracks on all of the albums that I return to.  But, sadly, the last album left me cold.

Everybody has to not like something