Grateful Dead - where next?

[Jules Gray]

So, it's been fun digesting The Golden Road.

Where do I go next?

I have a CDR copy of So Many Roads while I wait to find a regular copy at a reasonable price.

I was thinking that Bob Weir's Ace would be a good one to get next, as I understand that it's early 70s Dead in all but name.

But then what?  There's so many live releases!  My preferences are for songs over jams.

Let me know what you recommend.

Jules

[davidmjs]

I suppose you really need the next box set to get a complete overview of their flawed but fascinating studio collection.

As for live, the thing about the Dead is its all 'out there'...legally...or virtually all of it is.

Think of a year and start listening (http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead Audience recordings downloadable, soundboards streamable)

I guess, given your 'songs not jams' comment your best bet is probably to start with 1972, oft mentioned as their best year.  Otherwise, just chose a year and see what you think.  Even the later years have got some peaks (but a hell of a lot of troughs too)....

Go on...test that 'improper download usage' on your internet connection to the limit  

Bon voyage.

ps And So Many Roads is an, imho, awesome overview of the band....

[Jules Gray]

Thanks, David, I thought I'd be hearing from you.  

1972, eh?  Noted.

From slightly earlier, I noticed that Three From The Vault was touted as having very good sound, and the tracklisting looks solid.  Heard that one?

Jules

[GubGub (Al)]

Ace is excellent!

I guess it all depends on how deeply you want to dip your toe in the waters. As you know, I am new to some of this stuff myself and have looked at the bewildering array of archive releases and really don't know where to start or whether I have got the time or energy to be bothered.

But... This is where I came in and if you like the more structured stuff I think you will enjoy it. In the Dark is the band's late flowering classic. The Arista Years 2 disc set is a great sampler. Without A Net is a funky late era live album and I am quite fond of From The Mars Hotel which sits between all the stuff you have just listened to and the ones I have mentioned above.

Me? I'm saving up for Beyond Description, the sister set to The Golden Road covering the later period. On sale now at Amazon at a similarly tempting price. Oh dear!

[davidmjs]

Thanks, David, I thought I'd be hearing from you.  

1972, eh?  Noted.

From slightly earlier, I noticed that Three From The Vault was touted as having very good sound, and the tracklisting looks solid.  Heard that one?

Jules

Yes, of course...Feb 19 '71...it's a classic show...one of my faves...and some 3 minute tracks amongst the 20 minute noodles!

Disc One

   1. Two Ditties: "The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down" (Friend, Franklin), "Spring Song" (Mendelssohn) — 1:19
   2. "Truckin'" (Garcia, Lesh, Weir, Hunter) — 8:09
   3. "Loser" (Garcia, Hunter) — 6:23
   4. "Cumberland Blues" (Garcia, Lesh, Hunter) — 4:58
   5. "It Hurts Me Too" (James, Woodbridge) — 6:10
   6. "Bertha" (Garcia, Hunter) — 5:21
   7. "Playing in the Band" (Weir, Hart, Hunter) — 5:14
   8. "Dark Hollow" (Browning) — 3:15
   9. "Smokestack Lightning" (Burnett) — 14:42
  10. "China Cat Sunflower" (Garcia, Hunter) — 3:24
  11. "I Know You Rider" (traditional, arranged by Grateful Dead) — 7:02

Disc Two

   1. "Greatest Story Ever Told" (Weir, Hunter) — 4:22
   2. "Johnny B. Goode" (Berry) — 3:26
   3. "Bird Song" (Garcia, Hunter) — 7:04
   4. "Easy Wind" (Hunter) — 8:17
   5. "Deal" (Garcia, Hunter) — 4:22
   6. "Cryptical Envelopment" (Garcia) > "Drums" (Kreutzmann) > "The Other One" (Weir) — 16:09
   7. "Wharf Rat" (Garcia, Hunter) — 9:08
   8. "Good Lovin'" (Resnick, Clark) — 18:43
   9. "Casey Jones" (Garcia, Hunter) — 5:00

[tullist/raymond]

Well, while I will never deny the staggering wealth of great songs the Dead unearthed, if you are investigating the Dead from that perspective u will see only the faintest glimmer of their unfurled majesty. However if I were to point, say a CSN fan such as yourself into the gentlest yet most representative Grateful Dead avenue it would be the 1980 Radio City Live Reckoning, Jerry and Bob acoustic, Mickey and Bill stripped nearly nekkid, denied the use of their handsome beast apparatus. I suppose I would point to either a JGB band live cd or Ratdog live before Ace. Doubtlessly in the years Ace was out of print it was the most desired of the solo releases, and is nearly front to back, as was Garcia first, stuff that became the cornerstone of the Dead's repertoire, in fact the back up band on most of Ace is the Dead. But the thing that made the Dead fly higher even than the Beatles or Jimi just isn't the songs per se, they were sort of a roadmap with directions in the lyrical content.  For instance the Dead happens in that moment at the end of the Playing in the Band lyric, usually where Phil hits a subsonic note and the floor is removed from beneath your feet, and presto, Golden Gate Park 67, Dizzy Gillespie playing along with them, (unknown to them) from the audience at the Human Be In, smell of the eucalyptus trees, insense, probably pathitouli  oil on the way into forever, always was, always will be for real. I suppose I would need to stick your ass in the Greek Theatre on a sunny Saturday or Alpine Valley or many places in order to " get IT", fairly rare is the person who can find that on their own, and of course that opportunity ceased to exist long ago. I suppose I bought that original catalogue years ago out of obligation as much as wanting it, and these days the very best of their efforts, save for the milestone live performances that have been pulled from the net, is available for free at any number of outlets, I suppose for immediate use the Internet archive would be a good place to look, not to mention David Gans storehouse of Grateful Dead hours, a show now 25 years old.
Noodling, I can think of no more insulting word to the Grateful Dead, I mean was Michael Jordan noodling when he was dribbling?

[davidmjs]

Noodling, I can think of no more insulting word to the Grateful Dead, I mean was Michael Jordan noodling when he was dribbling?

It's just a word...no need to get offended on the band's behalf.  And boy, do I hate basketball  

[GubGub (Al)]

Noodling, I can think of no more insulting word to the Grateful Dead, I mean was Michael Jordan noodling when he was dribbling?

It's just a word...no need to get offended on the band's behalf.  And boy, do I hate basketball  

Precisely. If Ken Hom was noodling I don't think anyone would complain!  

[tullist/raymond]

Its just that no other word has been used as often in dismissing the Grateful Dead as noodling, with apologies to tie dye which I can absolve myself from having never worn one. Grateful Dead had some mighty close friends in that basketball world, notably Bill Walton and Phil Jackson and much of the Dead's aesthetic can be found in the way Phil Jackson's method of coaching of the whole working toward the common good. I would never dismiss a sport, for instance I find futbol boring, but I realize I just don't get it, and after a lifelong appetite for baseball, football, basketball and hockey there is little room left on the sports plate.

[Shane (Skirky)]

Noodling, I can think of no more insulting word to the Grateful Dead

Thanks, it's good to have that one in the locker.

[GubGub (Al)]

Grateful Dead had some mighty close friends in that basketball world, notably Bill Walton and Phil Jackson and much of the Dead's aesthetic can be found in the way Phil Jackson's method of coaching of the whole working toward the common good.

It is interesting that you should say that. I have just read a review on Amazon where the author was talking about using The Grateful Dead as an example of teamwork for his office colleagues for precisely that reason.

[tullist/raymond]

Yeah, Walton is even on the board of their Rex Foundation, the philanthropic arm, and has seen them something like 800 times, while still having time to be one of the most exquisite and cerebral basketball players ever, sorry to break it into black and white, but even if u only have a scant knowledge of basketball, u may have noticed that most of its greatest practitioners are of African descent, Walton was certainly one of the greats, without a doubt one of the greatest white players, and, along with Phil Jackson, one of the leagues first hippies. I had the small honor of having Bill come stand next to my English Caroline and I for the encore at one of the Frost Amphitheater shows in 4/85, at 6 feet 11 he was of course not hard to spot.

[davidmjs]

Its just that no other word has been used as often in dismissing the Grateful Dead as noodling, with apologies to tie dye which I can absolve myself from having never worn one. Grateful Dead had some mighty close friends in that basketball world, notably Bill Walton and Phil Jackson and much of the Dead's aesthetic can be found in the way Phil Jackson's method of coaching of the whole working toward the common good. I would never dismiss a sport, for instance I find futbol boring, but I realize I just don't get it, and after a lifelong appetite for baseball, football, basketball and hockey there is little room left on the sports plate.

Believe me, I like noodling..  If you really want to know about noodling in a negative sense, listen to some of the 90's shows...which often seem to be all about fitting as many notes as you can into a certain length of time...and the two drummers get extra negative points for this (some 90s drum and space routines should for ever be consigned to the pits of hell).  But, hell, I'm a fan, and have been for 30+ years since I first heard Scarlet Begonias at the age of 12.  They're as much if not more a part of my life than any other band that's ever existed, and if I was never able to hear anything by anybody else other than them for the rest of my days, I'd be more than happy....

As for basketball, didn't some (eastern European?) country once wear tye-dye colours in the olympics because the coach was a Deadhead?

[tullist/raymond]

Yeah, 92, the Lithuanian team, a move orchestrated by Walton who outfitted them in tie dyed uniforms, and they turned around and beat the allegedly unbeatable Americans! It was possibly 88 I forget. It was touching that they requested the American's shoes at the end of the game as they could not afford such things, whereas the NBA guys get new ones every game if they want. Eastern Europe has done much to reteach us our own game, with its emphasis on teamwork as opposed to showmanship and gimme the ball, they have been a real boon to both basketball and hockey in North America. Highly recommend Phil Jackson's book of about 20 years ago called Sacred Hoops. I have to say if you missed out on Michael Jordan the basketball player, not the guy used to sell product, you missed out on the closest thing to Jimi Hendrix since Jimi Hendrix, I will define that no further.

[davidmjs]

Yeah, 92, the Lithuanian team, a move orchestrated by Walton who outfitted them in tie dyed uniforms, and they turned around and beat the allegedly unbeatable Americans! It was possibly 88 I forget. It was touching that they requested the American's shoes at the end of the game as they could not afford such things, whereas the NBA guys get new ones every game if they want. Eastern Europe has done much to reteach us our own game, with its emphasis on teamwork as opposed to showmanship and gimme the ball, they have been a real boon to both basketball and hockey in North America. Highly recommend Phil Jackson's book of about 20 years ago called Sacred Hoops. I have to say if you missed out on Michael Jordan the basketball player, not the guy used to sell product, you missed out on the closest thing to Jimi Hendrix since Jimi Hendrix, I will define that no further.

And a great idea it was too.  Allegedly.  

The pic is from '96 I think...'92 was the time they won the Bronze...



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[Nick]

I mean was Michael Jordan noodling when he was dribbling?

Ok, I'm now laughing but for reasons few would understand ... Hee Hee!

I lived in California for a few years in the mid-90s. When I arrived, I knew nothing about the country's various sports stars but I did see, on all major TV channels, this guy who used to advertise underpants. He had the catchphrase "I'm Michael Jordan... And you've been briefed"

So, with that in mind, was he noodling when he was dribbling?       Actually, I don't want to know!

[tullist/raymond]

Its just that no other word has been used as often in dismissing the Grateful Dead as noodling, with apologies to tie dye which I can absolve myself from having never worn one. Grateful Dead had some mighty close friends in that basketball world, notably Bill Walton and Phil Jackson and much of the Dead's aesthetic can be found in the way Phil Jackson's method of coaching of the whole working toward the common good. I would never dismiss a sport, for instance I find futbol boring, but I realize I just don't get it, and after a lifelong appetite for baseball, football, basketball and hockey there is little room left on the sports plate.

Believe me, I like noodling..  If you really want to know about noodling in a negative sense, listen to some of the 90's shows...which often seem to be all about fitting as many notes as you can into a certain length of time...and the two drummers get extra negative points for this (some 90s drum and space routines should for ever be consigned to the pits of hell).  But, hell, I'm a fan, and have been for 30+ years since I first heard Scarlet Begonias at the age of 12.  They're as much if not more a part of my life than any other band that's ever existed, and if I was never able to hear anything by anybody else other than them for the rest of my days, I'd be more than happy....

As for basketball, didn't some (eastern European?) country once wear tye-dye colours in the olympics because the coach was a Deadhead?

I will agree to disagree about your assessment at least of the Drums aspect of the Drums Space section, finding that to be DEAD wrong, however once Jerry started using all that new technology that supposedly sounded like flutes or various other instruments I will agree the space section suffered after 89. Even after 90 I can thing of no other act that is filed under rock that could have summoned to their stage as playing participants Ornette Coleman, David Murray and Branford Marsalis. Yeah I know Branford played with Sting along with his bad ass buddies Kirkland and Tain Watts, but not like THAT.

[Jules Gray]

Sh!t - I turn my back on you guys for 2 hours and suddenly you're talking about basketball?!?!

[taps gavel on wooden desk]

Back on topic, gentlemen, please!  (And yes it is the first time I've ever said that here!)

 

Jules

[David (terrrrrrrr)]

As incredible as it may seem, Grateful Dead have completely passed me by. So it is a genuine request, and I'm ready and prepared to receive the deluge, can anyone suggest a good CD/LP as a good starting point. Note, I can't afford to go out and buy loads, so I'm wanting to spend my money wisely.

So it's, at least for me, not where next, but where to start...

[koho (Koen)]

A fairly safe place to start are the albums Workingman's Dead and American Beauty. To gently dip your toes in. Even if The Grateful Dead end up not really being your thing, these two albums might still be works you'll return to.
Me, I seem to be among the very few who really like (most of) the album Terrapin Station. Always been mightily in love with the epic title track, though live it's way more awesome than the studio version which is kinda overproduced.
To equally gently dip your toes in live work, try the triple Europe '72.