Grateful Dead - where next?

[Neil]

Is this where we start talking about which version of Sloth we like best?  

It sure isn't the longest!  

Jules

It also does not involve RT.

My preffered Dead listening at the moment is:

http://www.deaddisc.com/disc/Steppin_Out.html

[Pat Helms]

Oooops!  

Hey Jules!  Strike that "Truckin' in England" rubbish I said earlier, Neil just reminded me that the actual title is "Steppin' Out.........in England, '72."

Sorry about that one - a lovely collection, indeed!

Thanks Neil!!    

[MikeA]

Interested to pick up on the Steppin' Out '72 stuff - saw the Grateful Dead at the wonderful Bickershaw Featival that very year - whilst dodgy recordings are available, my abiding memory is of a great gig - bear in mind this was prior to the passing of the Night Assemblies Bill to prevent all night shenanigans like 4am Beefheart the previous night/morning(truly memorable)- New Riders of the Purle Sage kicked of what morphed into a marathon session as the Dead seamlessly took over. They didn't like the cold, Weir in particular! We were really, really knackered - but it was ace! When they started " Goin' Down The Road Feelin' Bad" half of us were already there!

Roll on Cropprers!

[Jules Gray]

Oooops!  

Hey Jules!  Strike that "Truckin' in England" rubbish I said earlier, Neil just reminded me that the actual title is "Steppin' Out.........in England, '72."

It's OK, I found it.  Some of these CDs had bonus discs when first issued.  I'd be loath to buy a copy without the bonus disc.  

Jules

[quodlibet (Ian)]

What should have dropped into my in box today but an alert to the next "Road Trips". Relevant in as much as it's another early 70's show. Complete show (hooray!) + bonus disc from a couple of nights earlier. Only one drummer, one of Keith G's first shows, more songs than jams, Dark Star> El Paso> Dark Star sandwich, mmm, what's not to like?  
Recorded live at Municipal Auditorium Austin, TX (November 15, 1971)
All selections are previously unissued recordings
DISC 1
1. Truckin'
2. Bertha
3. Playing In The Band
4. Deal
5. Jack Straw
6. Loser
7. Beat It On Down The Line
8. Dark Star>
9. El Paso>
10. Dark Star
11. Casey Jones
12. One More Saturday Night

DISC 2
1. Me And My Uncle
2. Ramble On Rose
3. Mexicali Blues
4. Brokedown Palace
5. Me And Bobby McGee
6. Cumberland Blues
7. Sugar Magnolia
8. You Win Again
9. Not Fade Away>
10. Jam>
11. Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad>
12. Not Fade Away
13. Johnny B. Goode

Bonus CD: (while supplies last) Texas Christian University in Forth Worth, Texas (11/14/71).

1. China Cat Sunflower>
2. I Know You Rider
3. Sugaree
4. Truckin'>
5. Drums>
6. The Other One>
7. Me And My Uncle>
8. The Other One>
9. Wharf Rat>
10. Sugar Magnolia

Available from: http://www.dead.net/road-trips/road-trips-volume-3-number-2
Get 'em while thy're hot.

[Jules Gray]

What should have dropped into my in box today but an alert to the next "Road Trips". Relevant in as much as it's another early 70's show. Complete show (hooray!) + bonus disc from a couple of nights earlier. Only one drummer, one of Keith G's first shows, more songs than jams, Dark Star> El Paso> Dark Star sandwich, mmm, what's not to like?  

Dammit, but that looks tasty!

Jules

[Neil]

As someone who has been ambivalent about the Dead in the past this is another of my favourites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick's_Picks_Volume_4

[Mike Cole]

This is depressing... Reading this thread I realise that I must have got it wrong for the last 40, very odd, years... (Bit like discovering that Bob Hunter wrote most of the lyrics for the album that became 'American Beauty' whilst living in Earls Court) but, for my ears Aoxomoxoa is a stone classic, almost definitive, Dead album. I can't be bothered to defend it, one man's meat is another man's poison, but really? To steer somebody away from it, in such unequivocal terms as applied here would appear to be a little irresponsible, to say the least.

Actually, I will defend it a little, if only to redress the balance:

Premise:

Aoxomoxoa is an essential 'stop over' for anybody who is interested in 'getting' the Dead - Discuss

If you don't hear Aoxomoxoa you will miss out on the definitive takes on both 'Cosmic Charlie' (wherein Garcia redefines the use of the bottle neck) and 'Mountains of the Moon' (the most absolute, no quarter given, few minutes of pure psychedelia ever committed to vinyl). Sure, those are the highlights of the album and sure, it would be silly to argue that 'What's become of the baby' stands up without the aid of some very strong psychedelics (I like very strong psychedelics) but it's a psychedelic album for god's sake - 'Either go away or come all the way in' covers that one - and should be judged by that standard.

At the end of the day you are either 'on the bus or off of it' - it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it's there and, if on it, you are in the driving seat. If you 'dip' your toe into the Dead canon you will almost certainly find yourself on a musical adventure that will hold your interest for the rest of your listening life.. Sometimes they will bore, frustrate, puzzle and madden you (no collective of musicians have ever taken so many wrong turns) and sometimes they will, amuse, astound, elevate and enable you (no collective of musicians have ever taken so many right turns)... And yes, they do 'noodle' but oh, such noodles, fit for a king..

'Does god look down on the boys in the bar room
Mainly forsaken but surely not judged
Jacks, Kings & Aces, their faces entwined
Do lord, deliver our kind.

From sin, from whiskey, three strings on the fiddle
Four, for the guitar, a song that I love
Many's the time we've spent picking & singing
In hopes it be pleasing both here and above' - Robert Hunter

[davidmjs]

This is depressing... Reading this thread I realise that I must have got it wrong for the last 40, very odd, years... (Bit like discovering that Bob Hunter wrote most of the lyrics for the album that became 'American Beauty' whilst living in Earls Court) but, for my ears Aoxomoxoa is a stone classic, almost definitive, Dead album. I can't be bothered to defend it, one man's meat is another man's poison, but really? To steer somebody away from it, in such unequivocal terms as applied here would appear to be a little irresponsible, to say the least.

Not sure it's depressing (or irresponsible!)...but interesting certainly.  But I agree with your viewpoint wholeheartedly....

[Bob Barrows]

It would be ever so much easier to say which ones to stay away from, though certainly even their worst have some merit. Stay away from Aoxomoxoa

 but it's a psychedelic album for god's sake - 'Either go away or come all the way in' covers that one - and should be judged by that standard.

Mike, you had me up until this statement, at which point your post simply became a long-winded restatement of Ray's point: if you aren't prepared to embrace full-blown psychedelia, then you should steer clear of Aoxomoxoa ...

[PLW (Peter)]

Aoxomoxoa is a stone classic, almost definitive, Dead album.

Is that stone, or stoned?

[sliprigilio (Al)]

Aoxomoxoa It is, however, a difficult word to type.  

Jules

As you have just proved!  

I don't know what you're talking about.  [innocent whistle]

I couldn't agree more with not taking artist's opinion of their own work at face value. If we did that there would have been no need for Dylan's Bootleg Series albums. This is a man who thought that Blind Willie McTell was somehow not good enough or not appropriate to be included on Infidels and therefore didn't release it at all for over a decade!

Indeed.  There's dozens of examples with Bob.  Artists are not always their own best editors or critics.

for example, at the risk of speaking heresy, I admire Dark Star more than like it but my first response to it was that it was more jazz than rock.

And at the risk of further heresy, I think Live/Dead was the CD I enjoyed least in the entire Golden Road box, for similar reasons.

Jules

I've always enjoyd a strange relationship with the Dead (no sniggering at the back...) in that more often than not I'm disapointed with them.  To my mind they always promised more than they delivered & I'm just a  little bored with the 'well, you should've seen 'em live' line that is always trotted out in matters deadly - most of their contemporaries managed to make great records but why excuse the dead?  They did mange some good studio albums but most of them are a tad lame to my ears.
I never caught them live (too young in their glory days of 67 - 74) & by the time I the had the chance in 1980 I turened it down as I didn't like what they were doing on record around that time (I did catch Bob Wer's Ratdog at canterbury Fayre in 2003 though - and they were great..). However, before I trundle on down the negative lane I also love the Dead for what they were & how out of kilter they were with the mainstream and the magical moments when they really got it right and made some truly magical music.  To understand what was special about them you need to really listen to 'Live/Dead' .  'Dark Star' isn't jazz but it's not 'standard' rock either  but it is a superb example of group interplay and improvisation within a rock format. A lot of bands of the era who went the improv route tended to hammer away in the manner of Cream on a bad day whereas the axis of Garcia, Weir and Lesh play with superb dynamics and empathy .  In feel and mood it's not a million miles away from Miles Davis's 'Sshh/Peaceful' from 'In a Silent Way' (both 1969). But for my money the most thrilling Dead moment is 'The Eleven' - again from 'Live/Dead' as I've never heard them play with such power and joy.  I suppose I prefer the 'jamminmg' side more than their songs but I rate 'Workingman's Dead' and 'American Beauty' very highly (which seems to be the usual line...) 'Two from the vault' (1968 live stuff) has some ace stuff - but has  a tepid 'Dark Star' .  'Anthem of the Sun' is pure acid rock heaven the first album has its moments and is a more energetic/garagy Dead than latter stuff.  I note that Sandra was groovin to 'Vintage Dead' recently - I've got an old vinyl copy of this & i don't rate this at all, but 'Historic Dead' - more early stuff dredged up & released in early 70s is better...
For me, the nub of all this is that I wish they'd stayed more 'Psychadelic' and they never ever seemed able to record their drummers properly...but on the plus side:  Garcia was one of the most expressive and individualistic guitar players and Weir still one of the most underated rhythm players...

Cheers All!
Slippy

[Mike Cole]

Bob

I think that your reply highlights the inadequacies of my writing skills rather than the point I was, longwindedly, endeavouring to make; which was the opposite of Ray's.

My point was that the Dead, up to an including Live Dead, were a psychedelic band with a target audience of psychedelically attuned music lovers (lest we forget, they came of age through the Acid Tests) and that anything they released during that formative period must be viewed from that perspective. Within this context it is ludicrous to advise somebody that is looking to discover what the band are about to 'steer clear' of what, by any standards, is a seminal psychedelic album - A bit like advising somebody that was interested in Paul Butterfield to steer clear of 'East West' because it's 'too bluesy' - That would be risible.

Further to this it seems to me that it would be difficult to get acquainted with the Dead without giving a nod to Bob Hunter and, if nothing else (and there was plenty else) Aoxomoxoa was the album where he set out his stall, China Cat Sunflower, St Stephen, Mountains of the Moon, Cosmic Charlie? The first two in that list have been central to the Dead's career and it seems a trifle perverse to harp on about how great this or that concert was in the same breath as denouncing the very record that introduced them to the record buying world.

[GubGub (Al)]

A bit like advising somebody that was interested in Paul Butterfield to steer clear of 'East West' because it's 'too bluesy'

Thanks for the warning!  

[Pat Helms]

As a lad, Aoxomoxoa was a great companion to listen to while ravenously devouring Oreos and reading Freak Brother comic books!  

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Jim]

As a lad, Aoxomoxoa was a great companion to listen to while ravenously devouring Oreos and reading Freak Brother comic books!  

the band Fairport may well have become but for them pesky copyright laws

[Jules Gray]

the band Fairport may well have become but for them pesky copyright laws

I don't follow you, Jim.  

Jules

[quodlibet (Ian)]

As it's (just over) 41 years since the run at Fillmore West that produced "Live / Dead", thought I'd dig out one of my favourite shows from the era, 1st March 1969. First disc is (Set1) Cryptical>O1>Cryptical>New Potato>Doin' That Rag>Cosmic Charlie (Disc 2) Dupree's>MOTM, (Set2) Dark Star>St. Stephen>The Eleven>Lovelight E: Hey Jude, None of these versions appeared on the official release.

Interestingly, one of the opening acts was Pentangle. Now there's a pairing I'd like to have seen jamming together!  

[Mike Cole]

Apparently they did jam together during that run of shows - Given their penchant for recording their shows but the dearth of same when collaborating I suspect they switched the tape machines off for that part of the show; have never managed to find anything of the sets they played with Miles or Etta James either

[Jim]

the band Fairport may well have become but for them pesky copyright laws

I don't follow you, Jim.  

Jules

When Norm and DM left Fairport after Babbacombe Lee, i believe Swarb and Peggy were a bit dubious of going out as FC as no original members were left and considered changing the name to the Furry Freak Brothers, but i believe Mr Crumbs attorneys at law were not altogether in favour of the change of brand name