Fairport Chatter

[RobertD]

It's a clever ruse invented by 21st century capitalism to make consumers pay for things long before they are produced.  

Trying to understand the point here. Here is the exact explanation from FC's website-

The official release date for Shuffle and Go is 28 February but you can pre-order your copy now or purchase on the forthcoming Wintour dates.

We will start shipping when we take delivery in early January.

Its all very clear. There is a not too distant stated official release date for an album that is already in the can. For those that are going to see the Winter tour, you can buy it at a show. There is nothing mysterious or nefarious.  For those that are missing the shows, you can order now and it will be shipping out well before 28 February. With crowdfunding you are supporting the efforts in the making of an album. I support an artist on Patreon whose album is in the can as well, but is being held up on purpose because it is being shopped around in the hopes of a bigger market, promo videos,major label etc. I choose to make that support.Either way I don't see crass greed in either scenario here. FC have their own label and the ability to offer these options for their fans. Further, to use your argument, the very act of paying tickets ahead of time for a concert is making one pay for something long before you attend... Yes with concerts there are promoters, insurance, and all of that. So too are costs in producing an album. I'd be skeptical and unwilling to part with money if it were ambiguous. This is clearly not

[Amethyst (Jenny)]

Also... no one actually makes you buy the album... so no need to fuss, buy it or don’t buy it ...

I will, looking forward to it.

[Delfini (Diane)]

It's a clever ruse invented by 21st century capitalism to make consumers pay for things long before they are produced.  

I pay for holidays, gig and theatre tickets before I go. We pay for lots of things in advance.

[davidmjs]

It's a clever ruse invented by 21st century capitalism to make consumers pay for things long before they are produced.  

I pay for holidays, gig and theatre tickets before I go. We pay for lots of things in advance.

To be clear, the point I was making above (which is true) was generic, not specific.  As for the above point, yes indeed...but if someone had told you twenty years ago that in 2 decades you'd be handing over large sums of your cash for a gig that wouldn't take place for another 12 months you'd have laughed in their faces.  Basically 'they' want to hold on to 'our' money for as long as they can, and in many cases these days, the product won't get produced unless and until it is already funded in advance.  This is a major change entirely based on the holders of capital wanting to pass all of the costs and all of the risk (or as much as possible of both) on to the poor old consumer.  We're being fleeced.  One day, enough of us will wake up to this reality to do something about it.

[hendo (Dave)]

It's a clever ruse invented by 21st century capitalism to make consumers pay for things long before they are produced.  

I pay for holidays, gig and theatre tickets before I go. We pay for lots of things in advance.

To be clear, the point I was making above (which is true) was generic, not specific.  As for the above point, yes indeed...but if someone had told you twenty years ago that in 2 decades you'd be handing over large sums of your cash for a gig that wouldn't take place for another 12 months you'd have laughed in their faces.  Basically 'they' want to hold on to 'our' money for as long as they can, and in many cases these days, the product won't get produced unless and until it is already funded in advance.  This is a major change entirely based on the holders of capital wanting to pass all of the costs and all of the risk (or as much as possible of both) on to the poor old consumer.  We're being fleeced.  One day, enough of us will wake up to this reality to do something about it.

David...2 different things here I think.
1. Pre ordering a product, album, book, film before the release date. If that’s what you want to do , for a myriad of reasons, that’s what you do.
2. Crowdfunding an album..... For bands like the one I am in, crowdfunding has become a useful method to raise funds to produce an album with high production values. So people who contribute receive a variety of ‘rewards ‘ from a signed cd to a house concert depending on how much they contribute. It means that bands who are running as a ‘ cottage industry’ eg doing their own publicity, finding gigs, producing their own albums etc can put out an album of new material.
I have never seen this as ripping people off, just a business model where people who want to help a band can.
The money isn’t invested to reap interest, it goes to studio time, producing a master , being able to afford a producer etc
......and 20 years ago social media didn’t exist , that now makes crowdfunding possible.
Record company advances used to fund making an album. Except for a privelaged bankable few, those days are long gone.
.....and streaming of course means that bands rarely make money from ‘ albums.’ They are predominantly a way to get people to gigs or , again as a cottage industry, to sell at gigs.
Folkies ( whoever that is ) still seem to want a physical product in their hand.
As I write this I have Maia’s album playing. The signed album I bought from them immediately after they came off stage at Cropredy. .....an immediate response to loving their set.....

[davidmjs]

It's a clever ruse invented by 21st century capitalism to make consumers pay for things long before they are produced.  

I pay for holidays, gig and theatre tickets before I go. We pay for lots of things in advance.

To be clear, the point I was making above (which is true) was generic, not specific.  As for the above point, yes indeed...but if someone had told you twenty years ago that in 2 decades you'd be handing over large sums of your cash for a gig that wouldn't take place for another 12 months you'd have laughed in their faces.  Basically 'they' want to hold on to 'our' money for as long as they can, and in many cases these days, the product won't get produced unless and until it is already funded in advance.  This is a major change entirely based on the holders of capital wanting to pass all of the costs and all of the risk (or as much as possible of both) on to the poor old consumer.  We're being fleeced.  One day, enough of us will wake up to this reality to do something about it.

David...2 different things here I think.
1. Pre ordering a product, album, book, film before the release date. If that’s what you want to do , for a myriad of reasons, that’s what you do.
2. Crowdfunding an album..... For bands like the one I am in, crowdfunding has become a useful method to raise funds to produce an album with high production values. So people who contribute receive a variety of ‘rewards ‘ from a signed cd to a house concert depending on how much they contribute. It means that bands who are running as a ‘ cottage industry’ eg doing their own publicity, finding gigs, producing their own albums etc can put out an album of new material.
I have never seen this as ripping people off, just a business model where people who want to help a band can.
The money isn’t invested to reap interest, it goes to studio time, producing a master , being able to afford a producer etc
......and 20 years ago social media didn’t exist , that now makes crowdfunding possible.
Record company advances use to fund making an album. Except for a privelaged bankable few, those days are long gone.

Small scale capitalists making the best of a sh1tty system to try and survive.  I understand that fully.  Good luck to them.  Ignore me (everyone else manages it), I'm just having a post Dec-12 rant...  

[hendo (Dave)]

It's a clever ruse invented by 21st century capitalism to make consumers pay for things long before they are produced.  

I pay for holidays, gig and theatre tickets before I go. We pay for lots of things in advance.

To be clear, the point I was making above (which is true) was generic, not specific.  As for the above point, yes indeed...but if someone had told you twenty years ago that in 2 decades you'd be handing over large sums of your cash for a gig that wouldn't take place for another 12 months you'd have laughed in their faces.  Basically 'they' want to hold on to 'our' money for as long as they can, and in many cases these days, the product won't get produced unless and until it is already funded in advance.  This is a major change entirely based on the holders of capital wanting to pass all of the costs and all of the risk (or as much as possible of both) on to the poor old consumer.  We're being fleeced.  One day, enough of us will wake up to this reality to do something about it.

David...2 different things here I think.
1. Pre ordering a product, album, book, film before the release date. If that’s what you want to do , for a myriad of reasons, that’s what you do.
2. Crowdfunding an album..... For bands like the one I am in, crowdfunding has become a useful method to raise funds to produce an album with high production values. So people who contribute receive a variety of ‘rewards ‘ from a signed cd to a house concert depending on how much they contribute. It means that bands who are running as a ‘ cottage industry’ eg doing their own publicity, finding gigs, producing their own albums etc can put out an album of new material.
I have never seen this as ripping people off, just a business model where people who want to help a band can.
The money isn’t invested to reap interest, it goes to studio time, producing a master , being able to afford a producer etc
......and 20 years ago social media didn’t exist , that now makes crowdfunding possible.
Record company advances use to fund making an album. Except for a privelaged bankable few, those days are long gone.

Small scale capitalists making the best of a sh1tty system to try and survive.  I understand that fully.  Good luck to them.  Ignore me (everyone else manages it), I'm just having a post Dec-12 rant...  

I have been called many things but NEVER  a small scale capitalist
Yes I do think Musicians should be paid.....

[bassline (Mike)]

I agree with Dave.

Both of you are right.

On a large scale, the risk has been transferred to the punter.

Just like insurance.

Just like rail companies...shareholders no longer invest, they just take the exorbitant profits while providing a crappy service, because there is no alternative.

I am happy, however, to have my name in the packaging of A Box Of Pegg's because I helped pay for it to be produced.

[davidmjs]

Anyway...20 years ago tomorrow, I, and probably in the depth of my love of the band (including still, then, the current one), saw in the Millennium (a year early, but let's not split hairs any more) with Fairport at the very lovely Beverley Playhouse.  To the best of my knowledge, I've still not seen a photograph of the event, heard a recording (Hard Day's Night!), or heard anybody very much talk about it.  I guess it was still pre-mainstream internet, but it does seem surprising when there is so much else from that period about Cropredy and the annual tours etc. etc.  Does anybody have anything?  It was a very enjoyable evening, despite the sweaty hug from Peggy at the end...  

[GarethW]

Just to clear up the comments on the above thread - and then dive for cover - in the FC office we always put the new product on sale before we actually receive it. There is a very simple reason for this. We are an office of two people - Milly Braviner and myself. We do a pre-sale, not for fiscal reasons, but because it makes life easier for us - selfish little souls that we are. It also gives those of you who do wish to purchase the CD the very second it becomes available, the chance to do so.

When a product goes on pre-sale, there is an initial flurry of activity as the orders fly in. This gives Milly and myself a chance to process the orders and label the Jiffy Bags etc. Our office could not be considered enormous by any stretch. When the product arrives, we can then concentrate all our efforts on stuffing the pre-labelled Jiffy Bags and getting them out to you as soon as possible rather than starting from scratch. In this case, we are taking delivery on 14 January (it would be earlier but I have a job in Latvia the week before and it would be unfair to dump 8k or so of CDs on Milly - they're VERY heavy!) and will be heading to the Post Office with the first few sacks that afternoon. The office is currently stacked with hundreds of empty, labelled Jiffy Bags etc in separate piles - single, multiple, UK, EU, non-EU etc. We have a system. We're not threatening Henry Ford here but it works for us with the limited amount of space we have.

So there you have it. A little window into the machinations of the FC office - from where we also manage to find time to put on a festival.
Simon once stated that rather than being a cottage industry, we veered more to the 'semi-detatched'. On reflection, this was probably an ambitious boast. We're still pretty much cottage-based.

As mentioned on the website, the 'official' release date is when you will see it in the stores - 28 February.

[Tom64]

Thank your the insight....

The thought that there now is a jiffy bag with my adress somewhere in that cottage is kinda cute...

Oh, and a happy new year to everybody

Thomas

[David W]

Just to clear up the comments on the above thread - and then dive for cover - in the FC office we always put the new product on sale before we actually receive it. There is a very simple reason for this. We are an office of two people - Milly Braviner and myself. We do a pre-sale, not for fiscal reasons, but because it makes life easier for us - selfish little souls that we are. It also gives those of you who do wish to purchase the CD the very second it becomes available, the chance to do so.

When a product goes on pre-sale, there is an initial flurry of activity as the orders fly in. This gives Milly and myself a chance to process the orders and label the Jiffy Bags etc. Our office could not be considered enormous by any stretch. When the product arrives, we can then concentrate all our efforts on stuffing the pre-labelled Jiffy Bags and getting them out to you as soon as possible rather than starting from scratch. In this case, we are taking delivery on 14 January (it would be earlier but I have a job in Latvia the week before and it would be unfair to dump 8k or so of CDs on Milly - they're VERY heavy!) and will be heading to the Post Office with the first few sacks that afternoon. The office is currently stacked with hundreds of empty, labelled Jiffy Bags etc in separate piles - single, multiple, UK, EU, non-EU etc. We have a system. We're not threatening Henry Ford here but it works for us with the limited amount of space we have.

So there you have it. A little window into the machinations of the FC office - from where we also manage to find time to put on a festival.
Simon once stated that rather than being a cottage industry, we veered more to the 'semi-detatched'. On reflection, this was probably an ambitious boast. We're still pretty much cottage-based.

As mentioned on the website, the 'official' release date is when you will see it in the stores - 28 February.

Sorry all, I fear I launched this off with a comment based i my curmudgeonly view about the pre order phrase. I still maintain it should not exist, but 'twas always about semantics not behaviours. Xx

[Shane (Skirky)]

Thank your the insight....

Also a splendid reminder that on the other end of every internet snark there’s an actual person.

[GubGub (Al)]

Many thanks to Gareth for that insight.

I haven't pre-ordered. I normally would but on this occasion I am going to see the chaps on my birthday in February so I am hoping I might get treated to the album at the same time.

[Nick Reg]

Just to clear up the comments on the above thread - and then dive for cover - in the FC office we always put the new product on sale before we actually receive it. There is a very simple reason for this. We are an office of two people - Milly Braviner and myself. We do a pre-sale, not for fiscal reasons, but because it makes life easier for us - selfish little souls that we are. It also gives those of you who do wish to purchase the CD the very second it becomes available, the chance to do so.

When a product goes on pre-sale, there is an initial flurry of activity as the orders fly in. This gives Milly and myself a chance to process the orders and label the Jiffy Bags etc. Our office could not be considered enormous by any stretch. When the product arrives, we can then concentrate all our efforts on stuffing the pre-labelled Jiffy Bags and getting them out to you as soon as possible rather than starting from scratch. In this case, we are taking delivery on 14 January (it would be earlier but I have a job in Latvia the week before and it would be unfair to dump 8k or so of CDs on Milly - they're VERY heavy!) and will be heading to the Post Office with the first few sacks that afternoon. The office is currently stacked with hundreds of empty, labelled Jiffy Bags etc in separate piles - single, multiple, UK, EU, non-EU etc. We have a system. We're not threatening Henry Ford here but it works for us with the limited amount of space we have.

So there you have it. A little window into the machinations of the FC office - from where we also manage to find time to put on a festival.
Simon once stated that rather than being a cottage industry, we veered more to the 'semi-detatched'. On reflection, this was probably an ambitious boast. We're still pretty much cottage-based.

As mentioned on the website, the 'official' release date is when you will see it in the stores - 28 February.

That can be summed up in one word. Planning.

[GarethW]

One further point on purchasing the new CD. For those who really wish to help the chaps, they get the highest return on those sold via the online store. Those sold on the road are subject to to seller and venue commissions which can be pretty high in some cases. Office expenses are covered by the £1.50 handling charge per order in most cases.
Either way, once the figures are in, all sales are entered on the 'Joy' column on the spreadsheet. The sooner we get that column to balance the 'Joy-Quasher' one, the sooner the band will receive a payout for their labours.

[Delfini (Diane)]

Just to clear up the comments on the above thread - and then dive for cover - in the FC office we always put the new product on sale before we actually receive it. There is a very simple reason for this. We are an office of two people - Milly Braviner and myself. We do a pre-sale, not for fiscal reasons, but because it makes life easier for us - selfish little souls that we are. It also gives those of you who do wish to purchase the CD the very second it becomes available, the chance to do so.

When a product goes on pre-sale, there is an initial flurry of activity as the orders fly in. This gives Milly and myself a chance to process the orders and label the Jiffy Bags etc. Our office could not be considered enormous by any stretch. When the product arrives, we can then concentrate all our efforts on stuffing the pre-labelled Jiffy Bags and getting them out to you as soon as possible rather than starting from scratch. In this case, we are taking delivery on 14 January (it would be earlier but I have a job in Latvia the week before and it would be unfair to dump 8k or so of CDs on Milly - they're VERY heavy!) and will be heading to the Post Office with the first few sacks that afternoon. The office is currently stacked with hundreds of empty, labelled Jiffy Bags etc in separate piles - single, multiple, UK, EU, non-EU etc. We have a system. We're not threatening Henry Ford here but it works for us with the limited amount of space we have.

So there you have it. A little window into the machinations of the FC office - from where we also manage to find time to put on a festival.
Simon once stated that rather than being a cottage industry, we veered more to the 'semi-detatched'. On reflection, this was probably an ambitious boast. We're still pretty much cottage-based.

As mentioned on the website, the 'official' release date is when you will see it in the stores - 28 February.

Thank you for that.

I’ll get mine at a gig.

Can we move on from the conspiracy theories etc now please?  

[davidmjs]

One further point on purchasing the new CD. For those who really wish to help the chaps, they get the highest return on those sold via the online store. Those sold on the road are subject to to seller and venue commissions which can be pretty high in some cases. Office expenses are covered by the £1.50 handling charge per order in most cases.
Either way, once the figures are in, all sales are entered on the 'Joy' column on the spreadsheet. The sooner we get that column to balance the 'Joy-Quasher' one, the sooner the band will receive a payout for their labours.

That's interesting.  I'd not have thought of that...

[Will S]

Ordered (pre- or otherwise ) mine now!

[Paul]

Bit behind with my television watching, and catching up on university challenge Christmas special. Nobody recognised the Sandy Denny, Fairport Convention track. Joan Baez was the nearest guess.  

Paul