New Fairport CD

[Bridgwit (Bridget)]

Are they relying too much on Chris Leslie these days?

Yes, but not to his enormous strengths.  I often lay awake at night worrying about his poor fiddles sobbing themselves to sleep unloved and unplayed.

I get a bit fed up with the high pitched urgency of mandolin ( or whatever that fiddly instrument is).

Hear, hear. And hear again. I know he's an accomplished player but there's just too much of it. The band needs the roar of a Maart to underpin the music and stop it getting, er, twee (I didn't want to use That Word but it is the best description  )

[GubGub (Al)]

Are they relying too much on Chris Leslie these days?

Yes, but not to his enormous strengths.  I often lay awake at night worrying about his poor fiddles sobbing themselves to sleep unloved and unplayed.

I get a bit fed up with the high pitched urgency of mandolin ( or whatever that fiddly instrument is).

Hear, hear. And hear again. I know he's an accomplished player but there's just too much of it. The band needs the roar of a Maart to underpin the music and stop it getting, er, twee (I didn't want to use That Word but it is the best description  )

It is an observation that has been made regularly on this forum for the entire time that I have been a member (and often by me!) that choosing to replace Maart with an acoustic musician when he left took the band away from their core purpose, what made them special as the founding fathers and guardians of British Folk Rock. This is no reflection on Chris's talents and Heaven knows they needed a songwriter but the "rock" part of the equation left with Maart and the last 20 years has seen them as essentially a very accomplished but rather safe and cosy (and occasionally dull) acoustic act.

[David W]

I think the tendancy - and whilst Chris recently is responsible so has been Swarb's songwriting and also Simon's choices of song in the past - is towards "whimsy" rather than twee. Fairport have often strayed there: Hungarian Rhapsody, Big William, Night Time Girl, Me With You, London Danny, Ginnie etc etc all fit in the same space the main difference being they were just one on an album. My listening of the new cd suggests Devil's Work, Our Bus Rolls On, Summer by the Cherwell, Step by Step are all whimsical tracks and dominate the overall feel without enough folk rock scaffolding to hold it up as a whole.

DW

[davidmjs]

This is no reflection on Chris's talents and Heaven knows they needed a songwriter but the "rock" part of the equation left with Maart and the last 20 years has seen them as essentially a very accomplished but rather safe and cosy (and occasionally dull) acoustic act.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.  

I'd also add that DM was a rock drummer, whereas (the very wonderful) Gerry C isn't, at least not in the same way.  Musically this might well be nonsense, but I think I know what I mean  

[GubGub (Al)]

This is no reflection on Chris's talents and Heaven knows they needed a songwriter but the "rock" part of the equation left with Maart and the last 20 years has seen them as essentially a very accomplished but rather safe and cosy (and occasionally dull) acoustic act.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.  

I'd also add that DM was a rock drummer, whereas (the very wonderful) Gerry C isn't, at least not in the same way.  Musically this might well be nonsense, but I think I know what I mean  

And I think I agree with you. Gerry is indeed very wonderful but somehow to my ears almost more of a percussionist than a rock drummer per se. There is an absence of attack in his drumming, which entirely suits the more lightweight nature of the modern Fairport repertoire. But DM had attack in spades, alongside his sublime good taste and technical ability in his approach to any given song. I think part of the reason that the last album that really works for me is WKWTTG is because it retains DM's heft, amongst what is otherwise the current line up.

[Henry Tompkins (Pete)]

This is no reflection on Chris's talents and Heaven knows they needed a songwriter but the "rock" part of the equation left with Maart and the last 20 years has seen them as essentially a very accomplished but rather safe and cosy (and occasionally dull) acoustic act.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.  

I'd also add that DM was a rock drummer, whereas (the very wonderful) Gerry C isn't, at least not in the same way.  Musically this might well be nonsense, but I think I know what I mean  

I know exactly what you mean David.
I'd also suggest that imho,  Martin Lamble was the perfect cross between the two of them.

[Field 7 is Heaven (Trev)]

There are many of us who love the current line up and its feel. Its not rock and roll ,it isn't supposed to be.

On Saturday on the five hour journey back from our Welsh Cup win at Haverfordwest,I had 50/50@50 on my headphones and as we drove through Artists Valley with the coast on one side and the mountains on the other Portmerion came on. In the weak evening winter sunlight I was really moved by the beauty. Almost spiritual.

FC can do that to me. Call it twee, if you like .But to me its just outstanding.

[folkfreak (Alexander)]

For me it was never Maarts parting. It was DM with whom the Rock left Fairport.
Just listen to John Gaudie and Bowmns retreat an Spanish main

Gerry is a nice chap and a superb percussionist, but not a good rock drummer. He has no punch at all.
It would have been fantastic with both in the band, DM for drumming and Gerry on percussion.
Just listen to the fantastic things he has done an western winds and the percussion numbers on the first Excalibur live album.

[davidmjs]

There are many of us who love the current line up and its feel. Its not rock and roll ,it isn't supposed to be.

The interview with Peggy and Chris would appear to show you're absolutely right.  It's a comfy old pair of slippers approach.  Fair enough, they've earned it if that's what they (and you) want.  

[davidmjs]

It would have been fantastic with both in the band, DM for drumming and Gerry on percussion.

I'm fairly certain Cropredy 2007 featured both on stage at the same time.  I remember that as being rather special, but I might well have imagined the whole thing.

[GubGub (Al)]

There are many of us who love the current line up and its feel. Its not rock and roll ,it isn't supposed to be.

On Saturday on the five hour journey back from our Welsh Cup win at Haverfordwest,I had 50/50@50 on my headphones and as we drove through Artists Valley with the coast on one side and the mountains on the other Portmerion came on. In the weak evening winter sunlight I was really moved by the beauty. Almost spiritual.

FC can do that to me. Call it twee, if you like .But to me its just outstanding.

I don't think anybody is arguing that they are twee in their entirety. It is just certain songs in the recent repertoire that have an excess of sentimentality, for want of a better word.

I would never suggest that Portmerion is twee, certainly not in its original recording. I agree that it is very moving. However I would question just how many recordings of it we need. This is what, the fourth or fifth? And it is not a tune that changes radically from one performance to another, unlike some.

[Malcolm]

I'm fairly certain Cropredy 2007 featured both on stage at the same time.  
[/quote]

It did. Can't remember the details, though.

[quodlibet (Ian)]

I'm fairly certain Cropredy 2007 featured both on stage at the same time.  

It did. Can't remember the details, though.
[/quote]

Nor me. Earlier Crops also featured Bruce & DM in tandem, unless I'm mistaken.  

[davidmjs]

I'm fairly certain Cropredy 2007 featured both on stage at the same time.  

It did. Can't remember the details, though.

Nor me. Earlier Crops also featured Bruce & DM in tandem, unless I'm mistaken.  
[/quote]

Probably wrong, but I don't think that (apart from drumming in '84) I ever saw Bruce drumming again at Cropredy (I then went every year from '87).  He was often on stage, but generally only with a tambourine...

[Greg E]

Are they relying too much on Chris Leslie these days?

Yes, but not to his enormous strengths.  I often lay awake at night worrying about his poor fiddles sobbing themselves to sleep unloved and unplayed.

I get a bit fed up with the high pitched urgency of mandolin ( or whatever that fiddly instrument is).

Hear, hear. And hear again. I know he's an accomplished player but there's just too much of it. The band needs the roar of a Maart to underpin the music and stop it getting, er, twee (I didn't want to use That Word but it is the best description  )

The shoehorning in of the Mandolin on song after song on the 'By Popular Request' album drove me potty at times. But then again its a statement of how the band plays those songs currently so probably a fair reflection.

[hendo (Dave)]

Really interesting discussion .
I am not going to say anything new that hasn't been documented by people wiser than I but I will throw some thoughts in.
I have watched DM and Gerry for years cos I love  the drumming of both of them.
DM came very much from a show band background ,so had versatility. It is well documented that without him the folk rock  of Swarb and RT's jigs and  reels would not have developed as it did. So I don't see DM as a rock drummer. He adapts.
Gerry just has so much feel , a great supportive/ drummer percussionist . I love watching Gerry play.
Gerry's feel for a song, to play the song , means he can't play as a rock drummer in the present line up . Without Simon playing strong electric ,he would just swamp it. They are almost an acoustic band now, hence his cajon playing on the spring tours..His playing with Jethro Tull shows he has power when he needs it.
This is sacrilege but I wonder what would have happened if Chris had joined as fiddle player in 85 and then PJ Wright had replaced Maart in 96,. Pj's gtr leads, power chords.......and songwriting!
I love Chris's fiddle playing and i used to find Ric embellishing too much. Yes I know Swarb improvised and used fx pedals but it still had a folk rather than jazz, underbelly.
 Portmerion is beautiful by the way and I return to it regularly but don't need another recording of the same version.
So DM and Gerry are both up there in the world pantheon of drummers for me.
I was lucky enough to be able to watch Gerry from very close up , playing with Fotheringay,at New Forest Folk Fest last year and I sat and watched an hours masterclass in sensitivity , technique and accompiament. Stunning, tight rhythm section just (!) supporting the guitars of Jerry and PJ.
Also Remember Simon Nicol and Gerry C are 2 of the best accompianists out there. Simon can be immensely underrated cos his gtr can get lost.
Sadly I just don't like the bulk of what they are playing at present.

[davidmjs]

This is sacrilege but I wonder what would have happened if Chris had joined as fiddle player in 85 and then PJ Wright had replaced Maart in 96,. Pj's gtr leads, power chords.......and songwriting!

You and I would certainly be far far happier.  And I wonder if DM would have stayed?

[GubGub (Al)]

Anyway, what we all seem agreed on is that some time around 1996 or 97, possibly for a combination of reasons, Fairport lost the rock. What is interesting is that when that happened they did not become a folk band, they became a kind of acoustic adult contemporary band. So they lost the folk too. And the new album is what results.

I have enjoyed them on many occasions in the last 20 years but I do feel an ambivalence that was not there previously and that stems from the loss of exhilaration that came from their electric performances.

[Dan O.]

Anyway, what we all seem agreed on is that some time around 1996 or 97, possibly for a combination of reasons, Fairport lost the rock. What is interesting is that when that happened they did not become a folk band, they became a kind of acoustic adult contemporary band. So they lost the folk too. And the new album is what results.

I have enjoyed them on many occasions in the last 20 years but I do feel an ambivalence that was not there previously and that stems from the loss of exhilaration that came from their electric performances.

That's a very good way of putting it...

[Tony Mc]

Gerry just has so much feel , a great supportive/ drummer percussionist . I love watching Gerry play.
Gerry's feel for a song, to play the song , means he can't play as a rock drummer in the present line up . Without Simon playing strong electric ,he would just swamp it. They are almost an acoustic band now, hence his cajon playing on the spring tours..His playing with Jethro Tull shows he has power when he needs it

Totally agree about Gerry. His soft touches, and blasts when required are perfection. The style of Fc at present don't do him justice or allow him to explore his full capability. I do think he is more of a percussionist than pure out and out drummer, but he can straddle the range (one of my favourites is Neil Peart who also has the full range). Yes, I am putting Gerry in the same sentence as the God Mr Peart.
I like Rics embellishments, and when he and Chris duel its heaven (John Gaudy). Ric on Hiring Fair always takes me to a new place where everything is good, and Gerry compliments the whole audio picture with perfection. Hiring Fair at 2015 Cropredy was the highlight of the weekend for me.