FC at Vienna Folk Festival 1985

[Shane (Skirky)]

That Vienna FF article was fascinating, but it does not quite solve the mystery of when the line-up changed, as the FC line-up is not specified.  We surely have to assume, however, that it was the Swarb line-up, because surely the reviewer would have mentioned it if there had been a change. Which leaves us with the thought that for a month after 14 July (day after Live Aid) Simon & Peggy had been keeping the new line-up under their hats. Either that, or Swarb agreed to do Cropredy and Vienna despite knowing about it ...  

I think you’re over rating the providence of reviewers. 😁

[Phil Perry]

Possibly     ... but it still means that the campaign to recognise the Vienna footage as "historic" and therefore to be issued on DVD starts here !!!  Wonder if it includes Redgum, a band I wanted to see at the time but never managed to.    

[davidmjs]

That Vienna FF article was fascinating, but it does not quite solve the mystery of when the line-up changed, as the FC line-up is not specified.  We surely have to assume, however, that it was the Swarb line-up, because surely the reviewer would have mentioned it if there had been a change. Which leaves us with the thought that for a month after 14 July (day after Live Aid) Simon & Peggy had been keeping the new line-up under their hats. Either that, or Swarb agreed to do Cropredy and Vienna despite knowing about it ...  

We know from the video that the FC line up was Swarb, Pegg, Nicol, Rowlands. (plus guests). With the next appearance not until 28th Oct and which is confirmed as the new line up, it means the video is the last appearance of Swarb in FC as a full time member?

Having had the pleasure of watching the footage, it's amazing that there is nothing whatsoever to indicate any tension between Swarb and the others.  At some of the gigs I saw during the '79-'85 interregnum Swarb was struggling quite a bit with his hearing etc which often impacted on the stage atmosphere...none of that here.  It's a brilliant hour and a bit (the JD/RT Sloth alone is worthy of a plaque) and a very significant find.

[Bridgwit (Bridget)]

That Vienna FF article was fascinating, but it does not quite solve the mystery of when the line-up changed, as the FC line-up is not specified.  We surely have to assume, however, that it was the Swarb line-up, because surely the reviewer would have mentioned it if there had been a change. Which leaves us with the thought that for a month after 14 July (day after Live Aid) Simon & Peggy had been keeping the new line-up under their hats. Either that, or Swarb agreed to do Cropredy and Vienna despite knowing about it ...  

We know from the video that the FC line up was Swarb, Pegg, Nicol, Rowlands. (plus guests). With the next appearance not until 28th Oct and which is confirmed as the new line up, it means the video is the last appearance of Swarb in FC as a full time member?

Having had the pleasure of watching the footage, it's amazing that there is nothing whatsoever to indicate any tension between Swarb and the others.  At some of the gigs I saw during the '79-'85 interregnum Swarb was struggling quite a bit with his hearing etc which often impacted on the stage atmosphere...none of that here.  It's a brilliant hour and a bit (the JD/RT Sloth alone is worthy of a plaque) and a very significant find.

Maybe it really was his last performance as a band member and as such they were all determined to make it a good one & enjoy it? I’d love to see it!

[davidmjs]

Maybe it really was his last performance as a band member and as such they were all determined to make it a good one & enjoy it? I’d love to see it!

Wheels are in motion.  Fingers crossed.

[Jules Gray]

That Vienna FF article was fascinating, but it does not quite solve the mystery of when the line-up changed, as the FC line-up is not specified.  We surely have to assume, however, that it was the Swarb line-up, because surely the reviewer would have mentioned it if there had been a change. Which leaves us with the thought that for a month after 14 July (day after Live Aid) Simon & Peggy had been keeping the new line-up under their hats. Either that, or Swarb agreed to do Cropredy and Vienna despite knowing about it ...  

Swarb definitely knew about the new material that he didn't play on.  I recall reading that he wouldn't entertain the notion of playing anything from it during the Cropredy '85 gig.

Jules

[davidmjs]

That Vienna FF article was fascinating, but it does not quite solve the mystery of when the line-up changed, as the FC line-up is not specified.  We surely have to assume, however, that it was the Swarb line-up, because surely the reviewer would have mentioned it if there had been a change. Which leaves us with the thought that for a month after 14 July (day after Live Aid) Simon & Peggy had been keeping the new line-up under their hats. Either that, or Swarb agreed to do Cropredy and Vienna despite knowing about it ...  

Swarb definitely knew about the new material that he didn't play on.  I recall reading that he wouldn't entertain the notion of playing anything from it during the Cropredy '85 gig.

Jules

GL was recorded in Spring '85 and released in August.  Was it actually on sale at Cropredy, does anyone remember?  I went in '84 but the not again til '87.  It must have been a very strange situation.

[Will S]

Very strange, I'd've thought. DM was on Gladys, but Bruce Rowland and Swarb were still in the live band... I must look back at the band biogs to see if there is anything about that period.  My first time to see them live was in Jan '86, so I didn't realise it had been so complicated.

[Will S]

Very strange, I'd've thought. DM was on Gladys, but Bruce Rowland and Swarb were still in the live band... I must look back at the band biogs to see if there is anything about that period.  My first time to see them live was in Jan '86, so I didn't realise it had been so complicated.

Just been looking at The Woodworm Years and Fairport by Fairport about this period. I guess the thing to remember is that FC didn't really exist as a band at the time - they played Cropredy once a year and a few other festivals when a promoter waved enough money under their noses. But Swarb was much more involved in Whippersnapper (and living in Scotland).  It is also mentioned that DM came back in because Bruce couldn't play drums anymore (though he seems to be doing so in the still from Vienna, and presumably did at Cropredy?).

Simon mentions that Swarb was played some of the GL material while they were recording it, but was very disparaging about it and didn't want anything to do with it (either in contributing to the album or playing any of it at Cropredy).  They didn't push it for Cropredy because they didn't want Swarb to turn around and say that he didn't want to be involved at all, leaving Simon, Peggy and DM to carry the whole thing (Ric wasn't available, as he was playing the Edinburgh Festival with Julian Clary that weekend).

So the Vienna footage is probably the last time Swarb and Bruce played with Fairport as full members (rather than full-time members, as no one was a full-time member at that point).

[davidmjs]

Very strange, I'd've thought. DM was on Gladys, but Bruce Rowland and Swarb were still in the live band... I must look back at the band biogs to see if there is anything about that period.  My first time to see them live was in Jan '86, so I didn't realise it had been so complicated.

Just been looking at The Woodworm Years and Fairport by Fairport about this period. I guess the thing to remember is that FC didn't really exist as a band at the time - they played Cropredy once a year and a few other festivals when a promoter waved enough money under their noses. But Swarb was much more involved in Whippersnapper (and living in Scotland).  It is also mentioned that DM came back in because Bruce couldn't play drums anymore (though he seems to be doing so in the still from Vienna, and presumably did at Cropredy?).

Simon mentions that Swarb was played some of the GL material while they were recording it, but was very disparaging about it and didn't want anything to do with it (either in contributing to the album or playing any of it at Cropredy).  They didn't push it for Cropredy because they didn't want Swarb to turn around and say that he didn't want to be involved at all, leaving Simon, Peggy and DM to carry the whole thing (Ric wasn't available, as he was playing the Edinburgh Festival with Julian Clary that weekend).

So the Vienna footage is probably the last time Swarb and Bruce played with Fairport as full members (rather than full-time members, as no one was a full-time member at that point).

I tend to think the split is over-stated - most of the biogs make it sounds as though they literally only met up at Cropredy during those years and it's simply not true...there are many bands still "together" who do a lot less than they did during 1979-1985!  Fairport played dates every single year...always a few dates in January (I saw them 3 times at Wimbledon Theatre) and the odd other one as and when.  I don't think I've imagined they even played a few US dates during the break ('83 or '84) - with I think DM filling in for Bruce?  Sure I've got a Bottom Line recording somewhere  If I've dreamt this last bit, please forgive me!

[Phil Perry]

Certainly they played the Lone Star Cafe, NY, otherwise known as the Texas Embassy, on 22 and 23 July 1984. It's amazing how alive they were at this point for a band that was supposedly defunct. As for Swarb rejecting the "Gladys" material, that is also strange given that he had recently recorded the Close to the Wind LP with Simon, the title track of which is in a very similar style to some of the material on the GL album.

[davidmjs]

Certainly they played the Lone Star Cafe, NY, otherwise known as the Texas Embassy, on 22 and 23 July 1984. It's amazing how alive they were at this point for a band that was supposedly defunct. As for Swarb rejecting the "Gladys" material, that is also strange given that he had recently recorded the Close to the Wind LP with Simon, the title track of which is in a very similar style to some of the material on the GL album.

That's the one...I've got two recordings...can't remember if they were early and late on the same day or one from each day...but they definitely had DM in with Peggy, Simon and Swarb.  

You make a good point about Close to the Wind.  At the time I do remember Swarb's hearing being used as an excuse for a lot of things, especially the move towards more acoustic playing.....

[RobertD]

Regarding Swarb, I remember a portion of the It All Comes ‘Round Again documentary with Swarb talking about that time, post 1979 ‘breakup’ and Gladys’ Leap. He said something along the lines of gigs starting again after Cropredy became a proper reunion and that there were now Fairport gigs all over every night of the week until he decided that between his ears and getting a little tired of playing Walk A While every night of the week again he would just stop. So not a definite timeline, but certainly an acknowledgment as someone else said of playing offers for gigs, in between Whippersnapper, and Tull and the RT Big Band and whatever else was going on.

[Jules Gray]

Simon mentions that Swarb was played some of the GL material while they were recording it, but was very disparaging about it and didn't want anything to do with it (either in contributing to the album or playing any of it at Cropredy).

Although nobody can be sure how much his opinion was coloured by the fact that Simon, Peggy, and DM had gone ahead and recorded the basic tracks without him.

Jules

[Will S]

Simon says in one (if not both) of the books I looked at today that he thinks Swarb rejected the Gladys Leap material as much out of sheer bloodymindedness ('I'm not on it, so I don't want to play it') as anything else.  I also think they went ahead and did it without him because he wasn't interested in recording new Fairport material, whilst the others were.

[Jules Gray]

Simon says in one (if not both) of the books I looked at today that he thinks Swarb rejected the Gladys Leap material as much out of sheer bloodymindedness ('I'm not on it, so I don't want to play it') as anything else.  I also think they went ahead and did it without him because he wasn't interested in recording new Fairport material, whilst the others were.

Yes, that's always been my take on it.

Jules

[davidmjs]

Ok, everyone, here she is.  It's been given the once over by Simon who is happy for this to be shared both here and on Fairporters.

Fairport Convention (Bruce, Swarb, Simon, Peggy) with guests Jerry and RT at the Vienna Folk Festival 18 Aug 1985 (the date online is oft-repeated as Nov - that date is wrong).  It's the week after Cropredy and only a couple of months before the new Ric/Maart era burst forth.

Despite all the weirdness going on, it's a (I think) really strong performance.  Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8WluvM44ys

[Jules Gray]

Ok, everyone, here she is.  It's been given the once over by Simon who is happy for this to be shared both here and on Fairporters.

Fairport Convention (Bruce, Swarb, Simon, Peggy) with guests Jerry and RT at the Vienna Folk Festival 18 Aug 1985 (the date online is oft-repeated as Nov - that date is wrong).  It's the week after Cropredy and only a couple of months before the new Ric/Maart era burst forth.

Despite all the weirdness going on, it's a (I think) really strong performance.  Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8WluvM44ys

Fab - thanks to those who facilitated our being able to see and hear it.

Jules

[Will S]

Thank you! Just started watching it, but must get back to work, so I'll finish it off later, but it's looking good 20 minutes in!

Bit odd about the truncated Sheebeg & Sheemore though...

[Bridgwit (Bridget)]

Ok, everyone, here she is.  It's been given the once over by Simon who is happy for this to be shared both here and on Fairporters.

Fairport Convention (Bruce, Swarb, Simon, Peggy) with guests Jerry and RT at the Vienna Folk Festival 18 Aug 1985 (the date online is oft-repeated as Nov - that date is wrong).  It's the week after Cropredy and only a couple of months before the new Ric/Maart era burst forth.

Despite all the weirdness going on, it's a (I think) really strong performance.  Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8WluvM44ys

This is great thank you