Simon Says....

[Nick Reg]

Looking at the Band: Peggy is 76, Simon is 73, Ric 71, Chris 67 and DM 76. DM made it clear a while back that he isn't a permanent band member (although that may have changed, but hasn't been announced) and if Fairport are to continue, he will surely eventually need to be replaced. New blood may well be a good idea, it may change a few things. However, with good health, they can continue a while yet, Jagger and Richards are 80, after all!

That's a topic all of its own. I think we're many years past the point at which the band could continue with new members, simply because the lineups have been too stable for too long (if you see what I mean).

I agree.  I think it was a good idea when Simon originally said that Fairport could carry on with gradually changing members.  But changing them all at once is unlikely to work - look what happened when Ashley tried that with the Albions.  You get a good band of young 'uns, but they also want to have their own careers, so the Albion Band franchise has now disappeared, probably forever (though I'm sure many of us would be happy to see a reunion of the '77-78 Albions for one last blast while they are still all around).

I think the important word is gradually as you say. There always used to be an obvious replacement/stand in for each band member but they are getting thin on the ground now, and many are aging themselves now. ie Gerry was the very obvious replacement for DM. Now who do we have? Matt Pegg, PJ in fact most of Trad Aaaar, Martin Barre, Simon Swarbrick , if they even wanted it.

[Will S]

Looking at the Band: Peggy is 76, Simon is 73, Ric 71, Chris 67 and DM 76. DM made it clear a while back that he isn't a permanent band member (although that may have changed, but hasn't been announced) and if Fairport are to continue, he will surely eventually need to be replaced. New blood may well be a good idea, it may change a few things. However, with good health, they can continue a while yet, Jagger and Richards are 80, after all!

That's a topic all of its own. I think we're many years past the point at which the band could continue with new members, simply because the lineups have been too stable for too long (if you see what I mean).

I agree.  I think it was a good idea when Simon originally said that Fairport could carry on with gradually changing members.  But changing them all at once is unlikely to work - look what happened when Ashley tried that with the Albions.  You get a good band of young 'uns, but they also want to have their own careers, so the Albion Band franchise has now disappeared, probably forever (though I'm sure many of us would be happy to see a reunion of the '77-78 Albions for one last blast while they are still all around).

I thought the new Albions were brilliant - a breath of fresh air in a stale old brand.  The only thing they did wrong (I think) was have a promoter who booked a ridiculously over optimistic range of venues for a tour.  They just needed to start small and steady.  An appearance at Cropredy would also have helped hugely.  I always thought that it was a little odd that didn't happen during their two (?) years of existence...

Agreed!  Can't see why they didn't appear at Cropredy.  Seemed like a shoo in... but then I've thought that about a number of acts who haven't appeared over the years

[Nick Reg]

Looking at the Band: Peggy is 76, Simon is 73, Ric 71, Chris 67 and DM 76. DM made it clear a while back that he isn't a permanent band member (although that may have changed, but hasn't been announced) and if Fairport are to continue, he will surely eventually need to be replaced. New blood may well be a good idea, it may change a few things. However, with good health, they can continue a while yet, Jagger and Richards are 80, after all!

That's a topic all of its own. I think we're many years past the point at which the band could continue with new members, simply because the lineups have been too stable for too long (if you see what I mean).

I agree.  I think it was a good idea when Simon originally said that Fairport could carry on with gradually changing members.  But changing them all at once is unlikely to work - look what happened when Ashley tried that with the Albions.  You get a good band of young 'uns, but they also want to have their own careers, so the Albion Band franchise has now disappeared, probably forever (though I'm sure many of us would be happy to see a reunion of the '77-78 Albions for one last blast while they are still all around).

I thought the new Albions were brilliant - a breath of fresh air in a stale old brand.  The only thing they did wrong (I think) was have a promoter who booked a ridiculously over optimistic range of venues for a tour.  They just needed to start small and steady.  An appearance at Cropredy would also have helped hugely.  I always thought that it was a little odd that didn't happen during their two (?) years of existence...

I thought they were great , live and on album, except that Blair seemed grossly underutilised .

[Peter Allen]

Now a reunion of the Albion Dance Band ("Prospect" & "Rise Up" vintage) , given that Simon , Ric and DM were all members and are already attending Cropredy , that might have seen more tickets sold

[davidmjs]

Now a reunion of the Albion Dance Band ("Prospect" & "Rise Up" vintage) , given that Simon , Ric and DM were all members and are already attending Cropredy , that might have seen more tickets sold

But would it?  I suppose a few of us grumpy old 80's and 90s folk-rock Cropredy veterans might have returned for one last hurrah but I'm unsure if that's what this festival needs any more....

But in the smaller kinder friendlier folk-rocking Cropredy festival I'd love to return to it would be absolutely spot on...yes please.

[Dubai Danny]

I'd argue that what Cropredy needs is more 80s acts - the kind of thing that will appeal to people currently in their forties/fifties, because let's face it, the original FC fans and Cropredy attendees are well embarked on their seventies now and are going to be less and less likely to turn up, for multiple reasons.

I'm not quite in my mid-fifties and the 80s are absolutely my era for mainstream pop music. Quite a few of the still-working acts that came out of the 80s are recognised for their songwriting and musicianship and would sit very happily on a Cropredy bill.

I realise that Nile Rodgers and Trevor Horn are strong nods in this direction (and they both have 70s crossover too) but the net could be cast wider.

[bassline (Mike)]

The trouble with that is that Fairport were a Sixties and Seventies band, essentially, when at their peak commercially..albeit not a very high one.
The 'old' audience are of the same vintage.
They are/were into music of that era, and either bought records by or went to see Fairport's contempories when it was the current happening thing. People who were old enough to go to Bath Festival and see Fairport, Pink Floyd, Zappa, Led Zeppelin, Jefferson Airplane, The Byrds and so on. This is why prog acts are popular with a part of the crowd, and also your Steeleyes, John Martyns, Lindisfarnes. (Progressive rock meant something different in 1969.)
The undercard was largely always up and coming acousticy/folky acts, which was what Fairport were in the Eighties. (Acousticy/folky, not up and coming.)
I can't see Fairport fans being Petula or Tony Christie fans - Glasto may get away with one act like that each year - but that's not Cropredy.
I can't see a future for Cropredy with The Human League, Culture Club, Rick Astley, and the Pet Shop Boys, with Fairport playing to a half empty field at the end, either. A Madness or Proclaimers for a bit of variety maybe, but there's plenty of festivals catering to that, and us die hards would go elsewhere, sadly.
If there were any folk festivals left.

[Dubai Danny]

It'll be an awful shame if 2024 becomes the final year of Cropredy by default rather than by being planned that way, with a much stronger lineup to go out on.

But these days, who *are* the really strong acts that are both crowd-pullers *and* financially/logistically feasible for Cropredy anyway?

The trouble with that is that Fairport were a Sixties and Seventies band, essentially, when at their peak commercially..albeit not a very high one.
The 'old' audience are of the same vintage

Well, this is my point. Cropredy obviously has to refocus away from that original audience, which it's clearly been trying to do in more recent years, and the people in their forties and fifties would seem to be the prime target - the ones who were teenagers in the 80s and are steeped in that particular era of pop culture, but who also know music from the 60s through to the 90s because they grew up during a period where there was simply a much wider range of music heard on radio and TV and in everyday life.

I don't think aiming much younger than people born from about 1970 onwards is likely to work.

[GubGub (Al)]

It'll be an awful shame if 2024 becomes the final year of Cropredy by default rather than by being planned that way, with a much stronger lineup to go out on.

But these days, who *are* the really strong acts that are both crowd-pullers *and* financially/logistically feasible for Cropredy anyway?

The trouble with that is that Fairport were a Sixties and Seventies band, essentially, when at their peak commercially..albeit not a very high one.
The 'old' audience are of the same vintage

Well, this is my point. Cropredy obviously has to refocus away from that original audience, which it's clearly been trying to do in more recent years, and the people in their forties and fifties would seem to be the prime target - the ones who grew up in the 80s and are steeped in that particular era of pop culture, but who also know music from the 60s through to the 90s because they grew up during a period before tiny social media bubbles.

I don't think aiming much younger than people born from about 1970 onwards is likely to work.

I think whenever Cropredy ends it was always going to be by default. It was always going to be as soon as any given year failed to break even. I can easily see why we might have reached that point. It's core audience has diminished and/or become more risk averse for a number of reasons. The band at its heart are no longer the dynamic, essential attraction that they were even 10 years ago. And the festival is so heavily associated with them, irrespective of who else might be there, that it is not going to stand up to any significant refocussing/rebranding. All things come to an end and it's time may well be up. Indeed the time for festivals generally as a form of mass entertainment may nearly be up unless they have the kind of scale, brand recognition, media reach and more importantly, social media reach of the likes of Glastonbury or the Isle of Wight.

[davidmjs]

I got a nice cheap copy of Off the Screen DVD for a couple of quid.  Inside was this newsletter for 2010.  £85 in 2010 is £126.87 today (Bank of England inflation calculator).  Ultimately, this tells much of the story (I think), as does the lineup...

[hendo (Dave)]

It'll be an awful shame if 2024 becomes the final year of Cropredy by default rather than by being planned that way, with a much stronger lineup to go out on.

But these days, who *are* the really strong acts that are both crowd-pullers *and* financially/logistically feasible for Cropredy anyway?

The trouble with that is that Fairport were a Sixties and Seventies band, essentially, when at their peak commercially..albeit not a very high one.
The 'old' audience are of the same vintage

Well, this is my point. Cropredy obviously has to refocus away from that original audience, which it's clearly been trying to do in more recent years, and the people in their forties and fifties would seem to be the prime target - the ones who grew up in the 80s and are steeped in that particular era of pop culture, but who also know music from the 60s through to the 90s because they grew up during a period before tiny social media bubbles.

I don't think aiming much younger than people born from about 1970 onwards is likely to work.

I think whenever Cropredy ends it was always going to be by default. It was always going to be as soon as any given year failed to break even. I can easily see why we might have reached that point. It's core audience has diminished and/or become more risk averse for a number of reasons. The band at its heart are no longer the dynamic, essential attraction that they were even 10 years ago. And the festival is so heavily associated with them, irrespective of who else might be there, that it is not going to stand up to any significant refocussing/rebranding. All things come to an end and it's time may well be up. Indeed the time for festivals generally as a form of mass entertainment may nearly be up unless they have the kind of scale, brand recognition, media reach and more importantly, social media reach of the likes of Glastonbury or the Isle of Wight.

I hear you but I think it may be going the other way . Small, boutique ( I don’t like the word ) fests , run by enthusiasts seem to be thriving. The same is happening in small venues, niche music put on by keen, often amateur , promoters……
 

[davidmjs]

It'll be an awful shame if 2024 becomes the final year of Cropredy by default rather than by being planned that way, with a much stronger lineup to go out on.

But these days, who *are* the really strong acts that are both crowd-pullers *and* financially/logistically feasible for Cropredy anyway?

The trouble with that is that Fairport were a Sixties and Seventies band, essentially, when at their peak commercially..albeit not a very high one.
The 'old' audience are of the same vintage

Well, this is my point. Cropredy obviously has to refocus away from that original audience, which it's clearly been trying to do in more recent years, and the people in their forties and fifties would seem to be the prime target - the ones who grew up in the 80s and are steeped in that particular era of pop culture, but who also know music from the 60s through to the 90s because they grew up during a period before tiny social media bubbles.

I don't think aiming much younger than people born from about 1970 onwards is likely to work.

I think whenever Cropredy ends it was always going to be by default. It was always going to be as soon as any given year failed to break even. I can easily see why we might have reached that point. It's core audience has diminished and/or become more risk averse for a number of reasons. The band at its heart are no longer the dynamic, essential attraction that they were even 10 years ago. And the festival is so heavily associated with them, irrespective of who else might be there, that it is not going to stand up to any significant refocussing/rebranding. All things come to an end and it's time may well be up. Indeed the time for festivals generally as a form of mass entertainment may nearly be up unless they have the kind of scale, brand recognition, media reach and more importantly, social media reach of the likes of Glastonbury or the Isle of Wight.

I hear you but I think it may be going the other way . Small, boutique ( I don’t like the word ) fests , run by enthusiasts seem to be thriving. The same is happening in small venues, niche music put on by keen, often amateur , promoters……
 

I'd be interested in probing a little with that 'thriving'.  I know people who run a couple of micro festivals (hundred not thousands of attendees but significant artists appearing).  Both of them do it because they love it and not making a loss is the main goal.  But they barely turn a profit...and sometimes make a loss...it's hugely marginal...10 couples not attending can make the difference.  The main goal is people having a good time though...and they do.

[Andy]

I hear you but I think it may be going the other way . Small, boutique ( I don’t like the word ) fests , run by enthusiasts seem to be thriving. The same is happening in small venues, niche music put on by keen, often amateur , promoters……

Dave, whilst some small venues are very successful, many are struggling to survive. Artists are leaving the profession in droves because they can't sell tickets, even when quite established.

One such artist, a member of a really quite popular band, said recently he had exactly one gig for this year and so had taken up a more reliable job with a regular wage to support his family and household bills.

I'd point to recent FB posts from Sam Sweeney, on the verge of cancelling gigs because the venues can't get an audience big enough to pay for the travel and accommodation, let alone make any profit to pay the band.

[Adam]

I just hope that whatever happens, when the time comes Fairport get to bow out on their own terms (like Show of Hands).

[davidmjs]

I just hope that whatever happens, when the time comes Fairport get to bow out on their own terms (like Show of Hands).

I suspect a solo artist playing house concerts to 40 people could earn considerably more than members of a 5 piece band playing thirty odd 400-1000 capacity venues in a row?  As in so many modern 'markets', the economics just stop making sense at a certain point.

[Nick Reg]

I just hope that whatever happens, when the time comes Fairport get to bow out on their own terms (like Show of Hands).

I think a lot depends on what stage of their lives musicians are at. 70 year olds will normally have no young children , no mortgage , be in receipt of state pension and possibly other income including royalties. 30 and 40 year olds are a different kettle of fish altogether. I admit to getting quite irritated when people were stressing because an elderly singer couldnt play gigs due a family illness. Very few of us who are approaching his age have any other material income apart from pensions and manage OK financially. It is now the case that senior citizens are better placed to play gigs and tour than young parents!

[Peter H-K]

One such artist, a member of a really quite popular band, said recently he had exactly one gig for this year and so had taken up a more reliable job with a regular wage to support his family and household bills.

Paul McCartney?

[Will S]

I just hope that whatever happens, when the time comes Fairport get to bow out on their own terms (like Show of Hands).

I think a lot depends on what stage of their lives musicians are at. 70 year olds will normally have no young children , no mortgage , be in receipt of state pension and possibly other income including royalties. 30 and 40 year olds are a different kettle of fish altogether. I admit to getting quite irritated when people were stressing because an elderly singer couldnt play gigs due a family illness. Very few of us who are approaching his age have any other material income apart from pensions and manage OK financially. It is now the case that senior citizens are better placed to play gigs and tour than young parents!

I do wonder about some of the survivors of the folk revival days, whether they have much in the way of pensions.  Did they have wise advice in their younger days to keep paying their NI dues, or even to think about personal pensions?  I rather suspect not.  Those who were successful enough to have royalties still coming in may be OK, but others may be struggling if they can't still get out and play gigs.

[barton cobbler]

I'm, I suspect, one of the few that has been to every Cropredy starting on Crossman's lawn. I think what lot's of people have stated, that when you get in your 70's, camping is a lot less fun than when you're in your 20's. We have bought an "higher" airbed because getting up off the floor is a lot of effort but my wife is still dreading the experience and I'm not looking forward to it either !              So that is one reason for lower ticket sales.
   My children, aged 40 & 33 have also been to every Cropredy in their lifetimes but both have said that this years line up contains very little for under 50's, but they are still going. That said, this line up would make it very difficult for them to sell to friends who haven't been before.      Another, and in my opinion, the main reason for low sales.
   In years gone by, I used to "sell" Cropredy to friends by telling them to sample the fringe when parking and admission were free but, of course, this is no longer the case. I know Alice Cooper & Brian Wilson must have cost mega bucks but they did bring in the punters where the likes of Divine Comedy would struggle to sell out my local theatre !
   In my opinion, it is no surprise that numbers are low, proving that it's a big risk thinking that  you can save a bit of money by being "Economical" with the line up.

[Andy]

2 posts removed.

Folks, it's nice to be nice. Let's not get out of that habit.