Simon Says....

[hendo (Dave)]

I hear you but I think it may be going the other way . Small, boutique ( I don’t like the word ) fests , run by enthusiasts seem to be thriving. The same is happening in small venues, niche music put on by keen, often amateur , promoters……

Dave, whilst some small venues are very successful, many are struggling to survive. Artists are leaving the profession in droves because they can't sell tickets, even when quite established.

One such artist, a member of a really quite popular band, said recently he had exactly one gig for this year and so had taken up a more reliable job with a regular wage to support his family and household bills.

I'd point to recent FB posts from Sam Sweeney, on the verge of cancelling gigs because the venues can't get an audience big enough to pay for the travel and accommodation, let alone make any profit to pay the band.

I completely understand that Andy , even at the level,I play at ( Johnsons Paint League under 13s) there is real competition for spots at festivals.
I have said a few times that music, particularly folk is going underground and it is , as you say enthusiasts , often risking the it own money ( can you hear me Andy Tuck) often promoting niche bands.
I used to curate a fest at which the organisers , all Cropredy fest related) felt they would have to put their hands in their pockets. Streaming has killed income for most musicians so it has to be from live gigs, which as you say are shrinking…..
As I write this I’m off to Nuneaton folk club, I should have been playing but one of band is ill, Damien Barber headlining who will be funded, hopefully from bucket donations, otherwise organisers will be putting hands in pockets ….
But I’ll put this up as a list of what is going on….
http://ukfolkfestivals.co.uk/viewall.php

[fat Billy(Bill)]

I hear you but I think it may be going the other way . Small, boutique ( I don’t like the word ) fests , run by enthusiasts seem to be thriving. The same is happening in small venues, niche music put on by keen, often amateur , promoters……

Dave, whilst some small venues are very successful, many are struggling to survive. Artists are leaving the profession in droves because they can't sell tickets, even when quite established.

One such artist, a member of a really quite popular band, said recently he had exactly one gig for this year and so had taken up a more reliable job with a regular wage to support his family and household bills.

I'd point to recent FB posts from Sam Sweeney, on the verge of cancelling gigs because the venues can't get an audience big enough to pay for the travel and accommodation, let alone make any profit to pay the band.

I completely understand that Andy , even at the level,I play at ( Johnsons Paint League under 13s) there is real competition for spots at festivals.
I have said a few times that music, particularly folk is going underground and it is , as you say enthusiasts , often risking the it own money ( can you hear me Andy Tuck) often promoting niche bands.
I used to curate a fest at which the organisers , all Cropredy fest related) felt they would have to put their hands in their pockets. Streaming has killed income for most musicians so it has to be from live gigs, which as you say are shrinking…..
As I write this I’m off to Nuneaton folk club, I should have been playing but one of band is ill, Damien Barber headlining who will be funded, hopefully from bucket donations, otherwise organisers will be putting hands in pockets ….
But I’ll put this up as a list of what is going on….
http://ukfolkfestivals.co.uk/viewall.php

Yup I'm with Heno on this, Paying gigs are like hens teeth and the competition is fierce.
Never have the words "I've got a daytime job, I'm doing alright" made being a gigging player easier.

[Adam]

Amidst all the bad news about festivals, heartening to see that Beautiful Days is 95% sold out as of today, although they acknowledge the really tough times.

[bassline (Mike)]

Amidst all the bad news about festivals, heartening to see that Beautiful Days is 95% sold out as of today, although they acknowledge the really tough times.

Bearded Theory have tickets on sale for next year, and this years event has only just taken place.
Meanwhile, the UK tour by Heart has been cancelled. (Boo - I had great tickets.)
The reason given was Nancy has to have some medical treatment. I'm not saying this isn't true, but a reschedule might have been enough.

Rough times for live music.

[hendo (Dave)]

I hear you but I think it may be going the other way . Small, boutique ( I don’t like the word ) fests , run by enthusiasts seem to be thriving. The same is happening in small venues, niche music put on by keen, often amateur , promoters……

Dave, whilst some small venues are very successful, many are struggling to survive. Artists are leaving the profession in droves because they can't sell tickets, even when quite established.

One such artist, a member of a really quite popular band, said recently he had exactly one gig for this year and so had taken up a more reliable job with a regular wage to support his family and household bills.

I'd point to recent FB posts from Sam Sweeney, on the verge of cancelling gigs because the venues can't get an audience big enough to pay for the travel and accommodation, let alone make any profit to pay the band.

I completely understand that Andy , even at the level,I play at ( Johnsons Paint League under 13s) there is real competition for spots at festivals.
I have said a few times that music, particularly folk is going underground and it is , as you say enthusiasts , often risking the it own money ( can you hear me Andy Tuck) often promoting niche bands.
I used to curate a fest at which the organisers , all Cropredy fest related) felt they would have to put their hands in their pockets. Streaming has killed income for most musicians so it has to be from live gigs, which as you say are shrinking…..
As I write this I’m off to Nuneaton folk club, I should have been playing but one of band is ill, Damien Barber headlining who will be funded, hopefully from bucket donations, otherwise organisers will be putting hands in pockets ….
But I’ll put this up as a list of what is going on….
http://ukfolkfestivals.co.uk/viewall.php

Yup I'm with Heno on this, Paying gigs are like hens teeth and the competition is fierce.
Never have the words "I've got a daytime job, I'm doing alright" made being a gigging player easier.

Must me this Heno character…..sounds like a good egg…….😇🤪😳🤣

[John From Austin]

Amidst all the bad news about festivals, heartening to see that Beautiful Days is 95% sold out as of today, although they acknowledge the really tough times.

Bearded Theory have tickets on sale for next year, and this years event has only just taken place.
Meanwhile, the UK tour by Heart has been cancelled. (Boo - I had great tickets.)
The reason given was Nancy has to have some medical treatment. I'm not saying this isn't true, but a reschedule might have been enough.

Rough times for live music.

Decent but not record-breaking sales for Heart's upcoming U.S. tour. They booked big arenas, much bigger than they typically played in the 2010s. I hope all is well with Ann and Nancy and I really hope they rebook the U.K. (On topic I hope insofar as we're discussing the state of the live music industry.)

[Shane (Skirky)]

Amidst all the bad news about festivals, heartening to see that Beautiful Days is 95% sold out as of today, although they acknowledge the really tough times.

It’s good news for them, notwithstanding that they usually sell out by March.

[PJayBe]

Would the end of Cropredy mean the end of Fairport.....

[Amethyst (Jenny)]

No!!

[StephenB]

Would the end of Fairport mean the end of Cropredy?

[Andy]

Would the end of Fairport mean the end of Cropredy?

Maybe... But not necessarily.

[hendo (Dave)]

Would the end of Fairport mean the end of Cropredy?

Maybe... But not necessarily.

Serious answer!
Well it wouldn’t be Fairport Conventions Cropredy Festival any more but it would be interesting to see what it would morph into.
It is arguable that that morphing has been happening for the last 20 yrs.
It has already been noted by several people that in the 90’s , even early 00’s ,Fairports were the focus of the fest, you went for their 4 hr set with friends, RT, Plant, Vikki Clayton, Chris While , Ashley etc etc.
Other acts were a bonus until it became 3 day fest and arguably, the Thursday night headliner became the pull.
The Brase is now a strong fest, could they just move on to the field and be a small fest like early Cropredies?
Probably not economically viable.
There may be another fest on the site, it’s a perfect field if farmers want to rent it out,  in future but Fairports had a relationship with the village, it is a friendly fest , Cropredy Drum n Bass Noizy Fest may not be so welcomed!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ask my neighbouring village who hosted Shambala to the extent that Shambala now keep the site secret…..!

[bassline (Mike)]

Would the end of Fairport mean the end of Cropredy?

Maybe... But not necessarily.

Serious answer!
Well it wouldn’t be Fairport Conventions Cropredy Festival any more but it would be interesting to see what it would morph into.
It is arguable that that morphing has been happening for the last 20 yrs.
It has already been noted by several people that in the 90’s , even early 00’s ,Fairports were the focus of the fest, you went for their 4 hr set with friends, RT, Plant, Vikki Clayton, Chris While , Ashley etc etc.
Other acts were a bonus until it became 3 day fest and arguably, the Thursday night headliner became the pull.
The Brase is now a strong fest, could they just move on to the field and be a small fest like early Cropredies?
Probably not economically viable.
There may be another fest on the site, it’s a perfect field if farmers want to rent it out,  in future but Fairports had a relationship with the village, it is a friendly fest , Cropredy Drum n Bass Noizy Fest may not be so welcomed!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ask my neighbouring village who hosted Shambala to the extent that Shambala now keep the site secret…..!

Exactly this.
Cropredy was a meeting of Fairport fans and band members to celebrate a band that wouldn't go away, in spite of corporate nonsense.
I have a recording of FC from '91, I think, where Jonah says at the end, 'Let's keep it our little secret.'
Cropers was The Ledge, where we met all our friends.
We ended up with 'The Ledge' which was an 'opportunity'.
Rebranding it would be to change what it always was at it's core.

I really don't like speaking of it in the past tense...

[davidmjs]

Rebranding it would be to change what it always was at it's core.

But that is exactly what happened after Dave and Chris's divorce.  For me, the evidence is clear - the festival changed irrevocably (and I would argue for the worst) once it became this Fairport's Cropredy Convention thing and stopped being Fairport Convention's Annual Reunion.

[delfini (Diane)]

Rebranding it would be to change what it always was at it's core.

But that is exactly what happened after Dave and Chris's divorce.  For me, the evidence is clear - the festival changed irrevocably (and I would argue for the worst) once it became this Fairport's Cropredy Convention thing and stopped being Fairport Convention's Annual Reunion.

Have you been to Cropredy since the divorce?
l

[GubGub (Al)]

Rebranding it would be to change what it always was at it's core.

But that is exactly what happened after Dave and Chris's divorce.  For me, the evidence is clear - the festival changed irrevocably (and I would argue for the worst) once it became this Fairport's Cropredy Convention thing and stopped being Fairport Convention's Annual Reunion.

I agree but in that instance I guess it was a financial imperative to enable the band to still have their annual weekend in the sun (or sometimes rain). The festival was still Fairport centric even if the line up sometimes wasn't. But Fairport's audience has diminished for all sorts of reasons even if the band is still there to close the event so the feel of the festival has changed. A Fairportless rebranding would be pointless. That option already exists elsewhere and without the emotional/sentimental ties to the village that Fairport bring it has no real raison d'etre.

[bassline (Mike)]

Rebranding it would be to change what it always was at it's core.

But that is exactly what happened after Dave and Chris's divorce.  For me, the evidence is clear - the festival changed irrevocably (and I would argue for the worst) once it became this Fairport's Cropredy Convention thing and stopped being Fairport Convention's Annual Reunion.

I agree to a degree.(Hee hee hee.) That was, maybe, the starting point, if not before.
A lot of the changes are due to those wonderful bureaucratic, fun killing, individual restraining types, not the guys themselves.

The Thursday headliner was, at first, more akin to somebody that would have been a Friday one, and that was fine. We just had more music. In 2000, I was lying on the grass reading a book, listening to the music. That was before the changes in organisation.That was 2004, wasn't it ? On the other hand, gone was the Thursday chill out, when you could turn up when you got there, no rush. Camp wherever you fancied, or have friends save a space. Stay in the field and relax and shake off work, or wander down to the village, have a pint and wonder back with a couple of days of music to look forward to,with FC as the climax.
My posse was about equal to the McBastards, then.... (more of us and fewer of them) and we had an annual water fight, until one of us bought a water cannon fire fighting LandRover from the local airfield and decimated them. I'm the only one left. I still have a pint at the Red Lion, though.

Unfortunately, we now had to arrive early in the morning on Thursday, creating queues onto the main road, camp where we were directed, causing complaints and people who decided that the rules didn't apply to them, causing more complaints. Rush to set up the tent and queue to get in the field and run to grab a spot, ironic when we need to sit down because we can't stand up for long or get up if we sit on the grass.

Then the headliners, and others, started to be unrelated to the folky-rock vibe - not necessarily people you wouldn't want to see - but not people who you'd want to see in that field. Supergrass, UB40, Jools Holland, Quo, Badly Drawn Boy, Divine Comedy, Alice Cooper....some of those bands I love, some played great sets and went down well, or great. I like Cropredy because I discover people like the Dixie Bee Liners..bluegrass not being my thing as a rule. I can see those others elsewhere.

Then there's Digance.
I, for one, am happy to have him on every year because it gives me more time to go round the boot sale. Many enjoy him, and that's great, but to some, 'Digance has ALWAYS been there. It's not the same without him' and all that. Well he hasn't, and that's how many of us feel about the early festivals.

Bringing in new people who aren't there for Fairport is not going to preserve what it was.
More likely the field is going to empty 'when those old blokes are on, so we can get an early start packing up the tent and go home.'
 

[davidmjs]

Then there's Digance.
I, for one, am happy to have him on every year because it gives me more time to go round the boot sale. Many enjoy him, and that's great, but to some, 'Digance has ALWAYS been there. It's not the same without him' and all that. Well he hasn't, and that's how many of us feel about the early festivals.

Bringing in new people who aren't there for Fairport is not going to preserve what it was.
More likely the field is going to empty 'when those old blokes are on, so we can get an early start packing up the tent and go home.'
 

Spot on.  For many people the good ol' days is 20 years ago.  For me, that's when it all started going wrong (and I bailed out 14 years ago now).

[hendo (Dave)]

As a slight aside, interesting to see Cambridge Folk Fest advertising hard……

[davidmjs]

As a slight aside, interesting to see Cambridge Folk Fest advertising hard……

Doesn't it always?