Simon Says....

[Nick Reg]

No, but if they are wavering about attending because of cost, it might make a difference. Not that, for other reasons, which have been expressed by others, I think that it is a workable solution.  And indeed is more likely to hack off those committed fans who have bought their tickets at full price.

But…..
The costs of producing a fest are fixed …..reducing ticket prices means you may get bums on seats but you may still end up with a deficit!

The people that will benefit are the stallholders!

[David W]

No, but if they are wavering about attending because of cost, it might make a difference. Not that, for other reasons, which have been expressed by others, I think that it is a workable solution.  And indeed is more likely to hack off those committed fans who have bought their tickets at full price.

But…..
The costs of producing a fest are fixed …..reducing ticket prices means you may get bums on seats but you may still end up with a deficit!

The people that will benefit are the stallholders!

100% of something is still better than 100% of nothing surely.

DW

[iandiddams]

100% of something is still better than 100% of nothing surely.

DW

Not for those that paid 100% of 100% it isnt. They've just been mugged off.

[Dubai Danny]

Given how uninspiring so many have found this year's lineup, part of me can't help thinking that announcing that 2024 will be the final Cropredy is the only way they're going to sell enough tickets... although with Towersey and Underneath the Stars already pulling the trigger, is there enough money to go around for "last ever" festivals anyway?

And of course, if an announcement that Cropredy was ending this year means they sell enough tickets, that would mean that 2024 wouldn't need to be the final Cropredy.

If they're going to end up relying on walkups to push them into the black, then a poor weather forecast is surely going to scupper that. Unless, of course, the situation has improved enough since Simon's last message that it's no longer a pressing issue?

So many ifs and buts... it must be a hugely stressful time for the band.

[GubGub (Al)]

The moment was always going to arrive some time, whether or not it turns out to be 2024. The band know that. They have been saying for 20 years that the first Cropredy that does not turn a profit will be the last Cropredy. Given their audience profile, that point is surely close. After the two cancelled Covid festivals I think people were desperate to get back and support it for themselves and the band but that has dissipated now and more stuff has happened in the interim that discourages people to take risks, financial and otherwise.

The question is where it leaves the band as a functioning unit when (not if) the no longer have Cropredy as the tentpole that supports their infrastructure.

[hendo (Dave)]

The moment was always going to arrive some time, whether or not it turns out to be 2024. The band know that. They have been saying for 20 years that the first Cropredy that does not turn a profit will be the last Cropredy. Given their audience profile, that point is surely close. After the two cancelled Covid festivals I think people were desperate to get back and support it for themselves and the band but that has dissipated now and more stuff has happened in the interim that discourages people to take risks, financial and otherwise.

The question is where it leaves the band as a functioning unit when (not if) the no longer have Cropredy as the tentpole that supports their infrastructure

Hi Gub, we may be touching on old ground here but bands that can no,longer afford to tour and are , effectively, cottage industries.
The fact that Show of Hands are blaming economics for stopping touring , who are probably the most effective cottage industry, is indicative of where we are.Oysterband are stopping touring, there  maybe other reasons too .
Can any roots musicians make a living without some other level of income. 3 Daft Monkeys. Honey and the Bear etc.
Fests look busy but 12 fest gigs a year aint keeping a band on the road.
I was talking to Damien Barber at a gig the other night , He’s doing solo gigs ,rapper workshops  etc….
Keeping Demon Barbers on the road isn’t financially viable.
So it becomes solo or duo artists who also have other jobs.
Outlets for roots touring bands are shrinking.
Sad times and we are back to semi pros?
…..and then a Talkawhiler puts up a picture ,tonight, of  a Taylor Swift gig in a huge , outdoor arena……

[davidmjs]

The moment was always going to arrive some time, whether or not it turns out to be 2024. The band know that. They have been saying for 20 years that the first Cropredy that does not turn a profit will be the last Cropredy. Given their audience profile, that point is surely close. After the two cancelled Covid festivals I think people were desperate to get back and support it for themselves and the band but that has dissipated now and more stuff has happened in the interim that discourages people to take risks, financial and otherwise.

The question is where it leaves the band as a functioning unit when (not if) the no longer have Cropredy as the tentpole that supports their infrastructure

Hi Gub, we may be touching on old ground here but bands that can no,longer afford to tour and are , effectively, cottage industries.
The fact that Show of Hands are blaming economics for stopping touring , who are probably the most effective cottage industry, is indicative of where we are.Oysterband are stopping touring, there  maybe other reasons too .
Can any roots musicians make a living without some other level of income. 3 Daft Monkeys. Honey and the Bear etc.
Fests look busy but 12 fest gigs a year aint keeping a band on the road.
I was talking to Damien Barber at a gig the other night , He’s doing solo gigs ,rapper workshops  etc….
Keeping Demon Barbers on the road isn’t financially viable.
So it becomes solo or duo artists who also have other jobs.
Outlets for roots touring bands are shrinking.
Sad times and we are back to semi pros?
…..and then a Talkawhiler puts up a picture ,tonight, of  a Taylor Swift gig in a huge , outdoor arena……

I think this is all true.  I don't dislike Taylor (or her music), but like in so many other capitalistic markets in the early 2000s, we are now at the stage where only the 'corporations' (i.e. the apex of that particular market) can cut the margins enough, charge whatever they want and create enough demand to make a (vast) profit.  It is of course totally unsustainable, and a reckoning is coming.  God alone knows what that looks like.  In the interim, I do think the 'cottage industry' is the only way for 'smaller' artists to make money.  A devoted audience of 500 who buy anything and everything is going to get you a lot further than 10000 'fans' who don't do anything other than stream your music occasionally and buy bootleg shirts off of Facebook marketplace.

[Dubai Danny]

The fact that Show of Hands are blaming economics for stopping touring , who are probably the most effective cottage industry, is indicative of where we are.Oysterband are stopping touring, there  maybe other reasons too

I had a long chat with Ian Telfer at an Oysters gig earlier this year in which he acknowledged that, while the economics are absolutely an issue, simply getting older played a big part - he said that at his age, he can't be schlepping up and down motorways the way he used to.

SoH's decision isn't entirely about economics either; neither Steve nor Phil is retiring, but they want to do other musical things that they don't have time for while maintaining SoH as a regularly-touring unit.

[Poor Will (Bill)]

…..and then a Talkawhiler puts up a picture ,tonight, of  a Taylor Swift gig in a huge , outdoor arena……
[/quote]
That would be me then, and I can tell you, that woman certainly knows how to put on a show!
I won’t pretend to like everything she does, but I found a lot to admire in her “Folklore” and “Evermore” albums which led me to investigating more and becoming  a bit of an aging Swiftie!

Having said that, you will also be able to find me supporting festivals of various sizes throughout the summer or having a great time jumping around to The Captain’s Beard in The Dog and Duck pub in Bognor!

[davidmjs]

…..and then a Talkawhiler puts up a picture ,tonight, of  a Taylor Swift gig in a huge , outdoor arena……


That would be me then, and I can tell you, that woman certainly knows how to put on a show!
I won’t pretend to like everything she does, but I found a lot to admire in her “Folklore” and “Evermore” albums which led me to investigating more and becoming  a bit of an aging Swiftie!

Having said that, you will also be able to find me supporting festivals of various sizes throughout the summer or having a great time jumping around to The Captain’s Beard in The Dog and Duck pub in Bognor!

On any basis, they are both (I'd argue the second doesn't quite match the first) very very good albums, which I play regularly.  There's so much utterly inane music around, but she makes very very little of it.  So, good on her.  None of this, imho, challenges the reality of the broken system which 'she' bestrides....

[Jim]

Am I alone, in as much as I don't think I have ever knowingly heard anything, clips on the news apart, by Ms Swift?

[GubGub (Al)]

Am I alone, in as much as I don't think I have ever knowingly heard anything, clips on the news apart, by Ms Swift?

No, me too Jim.

[Shane (Skirky)]

Am I alone, in as much as I don't think I have ever knowingly heard anything, clips on the news apart, by Ms Swift?

I understand she is prone to shakes things off, but I saw something on a retrospective BBC show where she performed a perfectly respectable country-pop number which I couldn’t possibly name. She’s no Martina McBride.  

[Amethyst (Jenny)]

Nor me either Jim.

[steve-n]

Am I alone, in as much as I don't think I have ever knowingly heard anything, clips on the news apart, by Ms Swift?

No, me too Jim.

Add me to the list of the uninitiated.......and don't ask about Stray Kids or BTS...!!!

[Andy]

TS is a modern phenomenon. I've now heard some of her songs and she's impressive.

Being old, though, she can't touch Johnny Cash.

[Dubai Danny]

Taylor Swift has made some of the best pop music of recent times. She's a proper talent - she can genuinely sing, play and write.

And she's managed to strike a blow for artists against the corporate bastards over the matter of ownership of master recordings, too.

The insane gig ticket prices are an entirely separate issue, which is all to do with the Ticketmaster/LiveNation hegemony.

[hendo (Dave)]

Hi Bill, my point was that we are talking about fests dying and grass roots venues closing.
We just seem to be at the point where music is in very small niche venues or the superstars , Springsteen, Swift, Stones , filling massive venues.
It was NOT a criticism of you going to see Ms Swift!😳😇🤣. Just a comment on the state of the music ‘ business’.
Serious question , how was the sound from where you were…

[Poor Will (Bill)]

Hi Bill, my point was that we are talking about fests dying and grass roots venues closing.
We just seem to be at the point where music is in very small niche venues or the superstars , Springsteen, Swift, Stones , filling massive venues.
It was NOT a criticism of you going to see Ms Swift!😳😇🤣. Just a comment on the state of the music ‘ business’.
Serious question , how was the sound from where you were…

The sound is never going to be crystal clear near the back of a stadium containing 90,000 people, but it was far better than I expected.

[Will S]

Am I alone, in as much as I don't think I have ever knowingly heard anything, clips on the news apart, by Ms Swift?

No, me too Jim.

Add me to the list of the uninitiated.......!!

None of you have had a teenage daughter in the last 15 years or so then, obviously!